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Need suggestions on water cooling

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August 11, 2008 1:58:55 AM

Hello, liquid cooling is becoming more and more convincing for me as I like to upgrade my graphics card in a matter of 6 months. As we all know it, all the aftermarket air cooling solutions are starting to get to a point where the amount of dbA they output is becoming unbarable and so I'm looking into this type of solution.

I'm a noob to the world of watercooling and so I hope you experts can help me out on deciding what are good parts to buy and how I can maximize the money that I've got.

I'm looking for an extremely quiet cooling solution that's good for overclocking.

My components don't get exceedingly hot but do I believe the Gfx card will become the hottest component in the case.

I want to know approximate the budget that I will need to spend. Please do keep in mind that I live in Ontario (Canada) so I will need to get it/order from the stores available to me. I want to avoid customs as much as possible and I can only pay via paypal if I order online.

My Budget is approximately 450 CAD (tax, shipping......included). Please advise me on what parts I should use and how I can maximize this amount. If it needs to go overy by 10-20 bucks I think I'm ok for that. Thanks for your time.

My Components:
CPU: E7200 Intel C2D (775 LGA socket)
VGA: 8800GT nvidia (I'm waiting for the December 2008 offering from nvidia so not to worry about VGA waterblocks for now).
a c 108 K Overclocking
August 11, 2008 2:36:28 AM

Short answer: Dont bother.

Liquid used to cool a vga card or cpu must eventually be cooled. That usually takes some fans, and the attendant noise. (Zalman reserator might be an exception)

Air coolers are very good these days. For vga cooling read this article from spcr: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article793-page1.html
August 11, 2008 2:55:44 AM

hmm... well if I want to over clock my GPU as well wouldn't using a heat sink + heat spreader be risky?

plus my goal is to make my next VGA card as cool and quiet as possible even while overclocked (this means the next GTX 200 or perhaps GTX300 from Nvidia).

Is there a non-water cool solution for this? I don't think Accelero S1 can top a GTX260 even now. Those cards get so hot it's just not really possible to cool without a fan at the moment. Even Asus kept a fan on it.
Related resources
August 11, 2008 3:05:24 AM

+1
it is very expensive to do water cooling and your tempd dont get much better then you also have to worry about leaks

if you spend good money on fans and vibration dampeners and noise dampener mats you can really have a quit case
look here i dont know if they can ship to Canada but at least you can get an idea on how to make a pc silent
http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l1/g33/Ultra_Quiet.html?id...
August 11, 2008 3:09:41 AM

water cooling will help in oc'ing but very little .
August 11, 2008 3:12:54 AM

murdoc said:


plus my goal is to make my next VGA card as cool and quiet as possible even while overclocked (this means the next GTX 200 or perhaps GTX300 from Nvidia).
just get acoustic damping mats they take down fan noise alot
August 11, 2008 3:52:01 AM

well the major problem is I need to find a solution to make my PC and silent as possible while it's being overclocked. Placing acoustic mats probably will do the trick for less $$ but may increase the heat. So I need to find the sweet spot where both worlds are balanced as much as possible.
August 11, 2008 6:51:55 AM

First of all, these people who are giving water cooling a bad rap by saying that you won't achieve results too much better than air cooling really are giving you some bad advice. Clearly they don't have much experience with water cooling OR they have none at all (and certainly less knowledge). You could find the best air cooling components and the best that they could do would only compare to the worst water cooling kits. In true form, a carefully put-together water cooling loop would produce results for you that air cooling could never approach.

Now, on to what you came here for....

Just a couple of questions here:

$450 Canadian - what would that be in American $? 350? $400?

Since you intend to o'clock, am I correct in assuming that means both the CPU and GPU?

Do you have any aversions to having rads outside your case?

August 11, 2008 7:05:31 AM

phreejak said:
First of all, these people who are giving water cooling a bad rap by saying that you won't achieve results too much better than air cooling really are giving you some bad advice. Clearly they don't have much experience with water cooling OR they have none at all (an certainly less knowledge). You could find the best air cooling components and the best that they could do would only compare to the worst water cooling kits. In true form, a carefully put-together water cooling loop would produce results for you that air cooling could never approach.

Now, on to what you came here for....

Just a couple of questions here:

$450 Canadian - what would that be in American $? 350? $400?

Since you intend to o'clock, am I correct in assuming that means both the CPU and GPU?

Do you have any aversions to having rads outside your case?


Finally I have someone with a difference response. I want to give you a load down on the case that I have. I bought this case a few years ago so please do bare with me.

- Sunbeam Transformer (I love this to bits and I still do).

Now, given this fact, it didn't have a nice WC design so no holes for the tubes to go through. There's no room for internal WC kits so it must be exterior. I don't mind it being outside but I want a relatively nice looking thing so nothing big, fat and ugly sticking out. If it sticks out a little that's fine.

I've read articles online like I've never before and I'm looking at this kit
Swiftech H20-220 Apex ULTRA+ Complete System Liquid Cooling Kit. It seems to give the biggest bang for the buck and the hardware itself is pretty decent.

Comparing CAD to USD I'd say 450 CAD is approx 420 USD. This is of course only if I need to go that high.

One thing I want to emphsize which I know is difficult is silence. I hope that it will allow me to OC with decent results while keeping it as quiet as possible.

I have my E7200 on Air at 3.4 Ghz right now and so I feel that I'm pretty satisfied with these results. I'm prolly aiming for this to be cooler significantly (from current 55ish degrees celcius on load down to maybe 40 - 45?) If I can get these temps I might even OC it higher to get it as close to 4 ghz as possible without breaking the 60 degree mark.

I want something that lasts and from my knowledge those all in 1 GPU solutions aren't the best since I have to change as cards change as well. Again, it seems like currenlty this Swiftech kit is best given that I have a dedicated GPU waterblock and seperate ram sinks included.

I want your opinion and I wanted to see if there's a better deal for me out there or if I should keep these parts but trade a few for even better performance. Thanks for your time.

PS: I'm having trouble looking up guides for Water Cooling precautions and how to safe guard my computer against leakage.etc If you have any good links please post them here, Thanks.
August 11, 2008 9:08:27 AM

Ok, as far as cooling loop components "outside" of a case let me show you a bit of my setup to give you an idea what I might be suggesting here:



August 11, 2008 11:54:40 AM

hey i just bought a Swifttech h20-220
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835108105

as well as a swiftech water block for my GPU http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835108095

This is to cool my Q6600 and 8600GTS. I have a extremely small case (its a cube case) and think im going to be setting the radiator on the back of the case. Im going to be setting it up tonight and ill take pics and stuff if you want to see them. Ill also post temps and other info for you.

right now I have an Intel stock cooler and im overclocking my cpu to 2.9ghz. it is running extremely hot but it does work.
a b K Overclocking
August 11, 2008 11:55:05 AM

murdoc said:
I've read articles online like I've never before and I'm looking at this kit
Swiftech H20-220 Apex ULTRA+ Complete System Liquid Cooling Kit. It seems to give the biggest bang for the buck and the hardware itself is pretty decent.


I have a very similar Swiftech kit, Here, and it is a very good starter kit.
High quality pump, decent water blocks and decent radiator.
The biggest gripe I have with this kit is it's 7/16" ID tubing.
It is supposed to prevent leaks but it is a PITA to get on the 1/2" barbs.

It takes a little more work but it is well worth your time to mount it outside your case.
Mounted outside, it will keep all the heat away from the rest of your components, keeping them cooler and draw cooler air through the radiator keeping your CPU and GPU cooler. Probably not much of a point using the northbridge cooler unless you are going for a maximum overclock. With all the heat pumped out of the case and a few fans, it should stay cool enough with out the watter block.

When you assemble your WC loop, make sure to have your case devoid of components.
You will have to drill/dremmel some holes for the tubing and possibly mounting of the pump and reservoir.
After the big parts are mounted, toss your motherboard back in so you can measure how much tubing you will need to run.
After the tubing is measured and cut, again remove all components.
You can then assemble and fill your loop.
To test for leaks, it is best to install and jump your PSU.
Keep it like this with just your pump running overnight or a little longer to ensure there are no leaks.

All those slamming water cooling have, most likely, never used it.
A properly set up water loop will keep your system cooler and quieter than any air cooler could hope to.

Best of luck with your first water setup.
If you have any problems with the instilation or setup, just drop a post.
August 11, 2008 2:46:02 PM

nh484000, of course post your pictures. You'll get a kind enough reception here from some good people who will offer their thoughts on whatever you are curious about.

outlw6669 does offer some good advice, especially about jump starting the PSU and running the cooling loop overnight. I've a secondary PSU, a 650 modular, that I have an adapter on that allows me to turn it on without being connected to the MB. I use it, primarily, on my fans (when I am setting them up) and my cooling loop (when I am setting it up). It allows me to run various components without being committed tot he motherboard - like testing my cooling loop for 24hrs as outlw6669 suggested above.
August 11, 2008 3:24:42 PM

Below you will find an exact list to what I have; this is just for the processor. I would strongly suggest a second independent loop for VGA cooling.

Water cooling requires deep pockets to do it correctly, I strongly suggest a Thermochill Radiator they cost more but are #1, if you are dumping this much cash into cooling… do it right the first time.

Water cooling WILL do the following:
#1 drop temps below that of any air cooled machine.
#2 allows you to overclock far higher then air. My temps are the same at stock as they are @ 3GHZ (from 2.4) … Yes an air cooled q6600 can get to 3ghz easily, however the temps wont be sub 40 degress.
#3 Costs a lot of money to do it right!
#4 looks sweet.

===========
My Water cooling setup
===========
-Swiftech Opogee GTX Waterblock - 5/9”OD barbs
-Swiftech MCP655 12v Industrial pump
-1*Smartcoils 625blue
-10 foot Masterclear pvc tubing 7/16”ID , 5/9”OD
-3* Scythe S-Flex SFF21F fans (for the Rad)
-Fan Controller - Scythe Kama Meter Multifunction
-Swiftech ½” OD Chrome plated barbs (for rad)
-Copper T connection (for the T line) from local hardware store.
-9 Hoseclamps from local hardware store.
-Feser One Fluid UV Purple NON-CONDUCTIVE Water Replacement (used about 20 OZ. for this system)
-Danger Den Fillport
-Swiftech MCB-120 Radbox
-Swiftech MCR320 Radiator (replacing with a Thermochill 120.3 rad)


August 11, 2008 3:28:28 PM

I tested my loop by jumping the PSU and i didnt have the MB in the case... After getting all the water circulated i was satisfied there were no leaks.

** It takes a lot to fill the loop as you have to turn the power on/off to avoid over heating your pump. A resevoir makes this a lot easier.
a c 324 K Overclocking
August 11, 2008 3:41:19 PM

Thanks Phreejak for stepping in...it seemed like those who don't use had quite the opinion on watercooling. You can use a large surface area (2x120 or 3x120 radiator) and some mid to low speed fans and do much better than an air cooler. Water has the ability to move more heat because of its thermal capacity; why do you think cars use coolant instead of all being air cooled? Granted, a couple of Porsche's might still be air cooled, but 99% of the rest are water cooled. That being said, there is a reason.

If you don't have the money to do watercooling yourself, don't bag on someone who has the cash and wants to. Yes, there are other alternatives, but if you want to shell out the cash for good water cooling, it will beat air cooling every day. As for leaks, there are reasons some people don't need to do it; they don't care enough to take the time and do a good job. (they have directions and recommendations for a reason).

Outlaw:
Quote:
It is supposed to prevent leaks but it is a PITA to get on the 1/2" barbs


I agree, they can be difficult with 1/2" tubing, but works very well. I use a can of spray silicone and just wet any barbs I have trouble with. Tubing slides right on and it doesn't hurt the tubing like WD-40 would over time.
August 11, 2008 4:00:37 PM

amen

August 11, 2008 4:08:40 PM

cal8949 said:
water cooling will help in oc'ing but very little .

This is an incorrect statement. A good water cooling loop can cool far better then air. Water will drastically improve your OC potential as well as your day to day temps on a 24/7 OC. You may only gain 4 degrees at stock… but once you crank up the heat, water is just superior, vastly superior.

They key is the Radiator… More radiators of higher quality are everything. Thermochill radiators are the way to go, lets remember at the end of the day water cooling is still air cooled via the radiator.

Don’t worry about 7/16 tubing on ½ in barbs, it is ideal to do it this way… and get your self some metal hose-clamps as well, leaks will not happen.
August 11, 2008 4:50:58 PM

grieve said:
Below you will find an exact list to what I have; this is just for the processor. I would strongly suggest a second independent loop for VGA cooling.

Water cooling requires deep pockets to do it correctly, I strongly suggest a Thermochill Radiator they cost more but are #1, if you are dumping this much cash into cooling%u2026 do it right the first time.

Water cooling WILL do the following:
#1 drop temps below that of any air cooled machine.
#2 allows you to overclock far higher then air. My temps are the same at stock as they are @ 3GHZ (from 2.4) %u2026 Yes an air cooled q6600 can get to 3ghz easily, however the temps wont be sub 40 degress.
#3 Costs a lot of money to do it right!
#4 looks sweet.

===========
My Water cooling setup
===========
-Swiftech Opogee GTX Waterblock - 5/9%u201DOD barbs
-Swiftech MCP655 12v Industrial pump
-1*Smartcoils 625blue
-10 foot Masterclear pvc tubing 7/16%u201DID , 5/9%u201DOD
-3* Scythe S-Flex SFF21F fans (for the Rad)
-Fan Controller - Scythe Kama Meter Multifunction
-Swiftech ½%u201D OD Chrome plated barbs (for rad)
-Copper T connection (for the T line) from local hardware store.
-9 Hoseclamps from local hardware store.
-Feser One Fluid UV Purple NON-CONDUCTIVE Water Replacement (used about 20 OZ. for this system)
-Danger Den Fillport
-Swiftech MCB-120 Radbox
-Swiftech MCR320 Radiator (replacing with a Thermochill 120.3 rad)

]http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll262/Grieve666/th_good1.jpg


I like your setup it looks really nice. I noticed that you wanted to replace the raidator with Thermochill and it looks good because from the thickness I can tell how much heat can get dissipated but wouldn't that thickness make the system look very bulky? How much performance gain would I get if I swapped to Thermochill 120.3?

Also how much did your current setup cost you?

If I replaced your fans with silenX 120mm fans would that perform better?

What about the size of the hose clamps?

Regarding the thermochill 120.3 rad, is it the same as this?

on my national computer store, it says if I buy any Feser product, I will get 20% off the Feser One X-240 (dual fan rad). Would that give me good enough of a performance or would you say that a tri fan rad is a MUST?

My national and local hardware stores did not have D-tek Fuzion CPU Waterblock, nor the GTX waterblocks that you've mentioned. Are there any other good alternatives that I can consider to replace that?

As for the hoseclamps, and copper T connection do you have any pictures on those? By hardware store, do you mean a computer store? Or stores like Home Depot?

Regarding the fill port, I can't really drill holes into my case so are there any work arounds for this?

I know I have a lot of questions, but I must make sure that I have everything clear before I proceed as this is one of my major investments other than my recent computer rig upgrade.
August 11, 2008 4:58:27 PM

phreejak said:
Ok, as far as cooling loop components "outside" of a case let me show you a bit of my setup to give you an idea what I might be suggesting here:

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m58/phreejak/rads.gif


I probably wouldn't drill any holes in my case because I don't have the equipment to do so (believe it or not). I most likely will get one of those backplates where it has holes drilled to allow a tube to go through the slots at the back of my case (like a video card having ports sticking out its ports at the back).
August 11, 2008 5:18:04 PM

The "pass-thru" slots are for 3/8ID tubing so you'd need to plan for that accordingly (instead of going with 1/2ID). Now, what that means is that you will probably be going with a single rad so that is going to limit your cooling capabilities somewhat (or your o'clocking capabilities anyway).
August 11, 2008 5:36:53 PM

phreejak said:
The "pass-thru" slots are for 3/8ID tubing so you'd need to plan for that accordingly (instead of going with 1/2ID). Now, what that means is that you will probably be going with a single rad so that is going to limit your cooling capabilities somewhat (or your o'clocking capabilities anyway).


not really. Take a look at grieve's setup. He used a pass-thru slot as well using a tripple fan rad.
August 11, 2008 6:24:29 PM

ok now i understand that you get better temps and oc on watercooling but you cant go cheap with it. but how is it quit you hook 2 or 3 fans to a radiator you have the pump making noise. then the 2 or 3 case fans you keep. you end up using just as much fans or more. but then you dont have those noisy video card fans but you have the radiators and fans outside of the case

a c 324 K Overclocking
August 11, 2008 6:33:27 PM

Silent and performance don't usually end up in the same hand. Most people assume that watercooling is silent, but you still need the fans to push air over the radiators. If you can hear a pump outside your case over a case fan, you have something seriously wrong. Most of your noise factor is like any other fan...it depends on the speed of the fan and how noisy it is by design.

My 9800GTX typically runs what, like 80C at load with the stock cooler? (from what I have read) Mine runs at ~45C at load with a waterblock and that is clocked at 800mhz on the GPU.
August 11, 2008 7:00:21 PM

You can have the most silent setup possible but it just costs a lot!

Using SilenX fans will give you at MOST 14 dba per each fan this is with of course 72 cfm flow. 3x of those fans will give you the most silent experience. The next loudest thing would probably be the pump itself and or your hard drive.

If you want to go even more silent, using the fan controllers as grieve pointed out will allow you to slow down the fan movements a bit. You sacrafice a bit of CFM airflow but you get a lot of noise reduction this means, the silenX fans can go to approx 11 - 12 dbA with still 3 fans cooling the tri-fan rad. This is VERY GOOD!
a c 324 K Overclocking
August 11, 2008 7:21:04 PM

Yeah, its all in there. The side radiator is passive and is an oil cooler that I got from Summit's online catalog. I also have a 2x120 in the back as well. The reserviors are ones that I made with some acrylic tubing and some basic PVC supplies from Home Depot.

I think this is the one I have:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=DER%2D15502B&N=700+4294839034+400434+115&autoview=sku

I would like to go to a dual pass cooler like this...I kick myself for not looking a little more:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=DER%2D13720B&N=700+4294839034+400434+115&autoview=sku

The reservoirs are kinda cool...you can see the fluid flow into the top one and it then passes into the lower one, then into the side radiator...back inside to the pump. I am working on newer reservoirs...the design is OK, but since I did it once, I know how I want to do it differently and clean up the design.
August 11, 2008 7:29:40 PM

hmm... looks great but I don't think I have enough room for something like this =/ I'm most likely going to stick with either the Swiftech H20 - 220 setup or grieve's setup.
a c 324 K Overclocking
August 11, 2008 7:39:25 PM

I think its a good idea to go that route unless you want to go into modding your case. Most rads from kits are easy to mount on OEM fan mounts, etc. Get your feet wet then go from there.
August 11, 2008 7:52:43 PM

Murdoc, I don't think he is using the PCI pass thru's that are standard. The PCI slots are smaller than 1/2ID. Try fitting a 3/4OD 1/2ID tube through one. I use 11/16OD 1/2ID Tygon tubing in my case so I had to custom drill all the holes in my case with a holesaw drillbit.
August 11, 2008 7:53:09 PM

rubix_1011 said:
I think its a good idea to go that route unless you want to go into modding your case. Most rads from kits are easy to mount on OEM fan mounts, etc. Get your feet wet then go from there.


What about the Fluid that the Swiftech H20-220 ULTRA+ comes with? Is that good enough or should I opt for something else? I've read many reviews saying that the package that comes with it VGA ram sinks that fall off easily. Any recommendations on how to tighten it without soldering or perhaps recommendations on what ram sinks I should buy to replace those crappy ones?
August 11, 2008 7:54:44 PM

phreejak said:
Murdoc, I don't think he is using the PCI pass thru's that are standard. The PCI slots are smaller than 1/2ID. Try fitting a 3/4OD 1/2ID tube through one. I use 11/16OD 1/2ID Tygon tubing in my case so I had to custom drill all the holes in my case with a holesaw drillbit.


so these won't fit?

Masterkleer Pvc Tubing 7/16IN ID 5/9IN OD 10 Feet
a c 324 K Overclocking
August 11, 2008 8:02:02 PM

The VGA RAM sinks aren't attached by anything but thermal tape...its like dual sided adhesive tape (no, you can't just use regular dual sided tape).

The coolant additive is probably OK...it mainly serves to prevent algae growth (or limiti it) and add color to the fluid so its not just clear water. There are some fluid additives that claim to do more than others, but it is probably minimal in comparison to one another.

Some cases have holes for the tubing to run outside the case (mine is one of these). If not, I don't know that the PCI slot 'adapters' are big enough for 1/2" ID tubing (5/8" or 3/4" OD?) You might have to be creative on this one. Just make sure that you add some grommets or something so sharp metal doesn't slice through your tubing.
August 11, 2008 8:10:26 PM

rubix_1011 said:
The VGA RAM sinks aren't attached by anything but thermal tape...its like dual sided adhesive tape (no, you can't just use regular dual sided tape).

The coolant additive is probably OK...it mainly serves to prevent algae growth (or limiti it) and add color to the fluid so its not just clear water. There are some fluid additives that claim to do more than others, but it is probably minimal in comparison to one another.

Some cases have holes for the tubing to run outside the case (mine is one of these). If not, I don't know that the PCI slot 'adapters' are big enough for 1/2" ID tubing (5/8" or 3/4" OD?) You might have to be creative on this one. Just make sure that you add some grommets or something so sharp metal doesn't slice through your tubing.


So would you say that the ones the swiftech kit provides is sufficent? I've seen at least 3 reviews saying it fell off while the user was on his comp. Any recommendations on better ones to use?

my case does not have water cooling holes drilled. Can you give me a load down on how the size of tubing works?... theoretically shouldn't 7/16 tubing be smaller than 1/2? Would the 7/16 tubes fit through PCI-Slots?
a c 324 K Overclocking
August 11, 2008 8:20:59 PM

Those are ID or inside diameter sizes. You will need AT LEAST the OD, outside diameter holes...and that would be snug fit. I would say that 3/4" would be a decent size to start with. (as long as the OD isn't 3/4", of course)

I think Zalman makes some good RAM sinks, I have used these before and they worked well...I mean, they really only serve one purpose...to dissipate heat and cool.

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/3285/ram-21/Zalman_ZM-RHS1_VGA_RAM_Heat_Sinks.html?tl=g40c18s236

Just make sure you clean the RAM modules with something like rubbing alcohol very well or the tape won't stick. That thermal pad compound often leaves a slick residue when you remove the stock heatsink. Just make sure that no matter which ones you use (try the ones that come in the kit first) you clean them off really well so the thermal tape has something clean to stick to.
August 11, 2008 8:25:38 PM

Don't be afraid of drilling holes or getting the old hammer :o  out on your rig, it can turn out to be a pleasant surprise ;)  and will give you better options to fit your water loop.

7/16 ID is 5/8" OD. As for the RAM sinks it's just another idea to use 'thermal adhesive' ie: http://www.watercoolinguk.co.uk/catalog/product_info.ph....
August 11, 2008 11:08:24 PM

Modding a case is half the fun sometimes.......
August 11, 2008 11:17:50 PM

Watching Dremal cutting disc's disintegrate after 4 inches of aluminum accounts for another 1/4 of it :p .

P.S Your getting some good info here... Also phreejak was the guy who sold the water cooling concept for me, turned out to be an expensive but very satisfying experience and effective solution. Thankyou for that phreejak :sol: .

Few pics of my water cooling/case mod here: http://s232.photobucket.com/albums/ee276/closed_deal/
a c 324 K Overclocking
August 12, 2008 2:51:59 AM

It's a good time, that much I can guarantee.
August 12, 2008 4:17:37 AM

well, I was glad to be of help.

There are alot of decent people here who really do a good job of helping out.

You would've been in good hands even if I hadn't spoken.....
August 12, 2008 3:06:17 PM

murdoc said:
I like your setup it looks really nice. I noticed that you wanted to replace the raidator with Thermochill and it looks good because from the thickness I can tell how much heat can get dissipated but wouldn't that thickness make the system look very bulky? How much performance gain would I get if I swapped to Thermochill 120.3? Thinkness and the material used are most important.. I suspect you would gain a couple or 4 degrees by using a thermochil Rad
Also how much did your current setup cost you?
About $500-600... trial and error cost me more then if i had a complete list like i posted here.
If I replaced your fans with silenX 120mm fans would that perform better? I doubt it.. i run mine @ 800 RPM for silence but it can do 2000rpm, adding 3 more fans in a push/pull setup would improve performace.
What about the size of the hose clamps?
I used 1" metal hoseclamps
Regarding the thermochill 120.3 rad, is it the same as this?
No, in fact it is cheaper then that one... but that look pretty nice, i would do some research on it. It looks VERY think.

on my national computer store, it says if I buy any Feser product, I will get 20% off the Feser One X-240 (dual fan rad). Would that give me good enough of a performance or would you say that a tri fan rad is a MUST? I also bought from NCIX :)  the Rad you have listed there is $170, thats crazy, the most expensive one i have seen in fact. I know the thermochil triple rad will almost double the performace of the Swiftech... the fatty you have the link for i am unsaure of the stats.

My national and local hardware stores did not have D-tek Fuzion CPU Waterblock, nor the GTX waterblocks that you've mentioned. Are there any other good alternatives that I can consider to replace that? Buy from another store, D-Tek is the best but i have heard you have to open the block to get junk out from the inside... this is why i went with the GTX

As for the hoseclamps, and copper T connection do you have any pictures on those? By hardware store, do you mean a computer store? Or stores like Home Depot? Ill post some more links, you might be able to see them in there however i do not have any pictures of them not attached already... Hardware store was the home depot.

Regarding the fill port, I can't really drill holes into my case so are there any work arounds for this? Use a resevoir instead of a "T" line to avoid the fill port... Drill some holes my friend. Take your time, expect to spend 20 hours and have fun. Drill holes, cut the case... it is a great experience. Buy a 30$ dremel.

I know I have a lot of questions, but I must make sure that I have everything clear before I proceed as this is one of my major investments other than my recent computer rig upgrade.

August 12, 2008 3:18:33 PM

Murdoc, each component usually only has 1 or 4 degree variance from each other. If you get a crap water-block expect a 2 degree higher temp… A crap radiator can add another 4 degrees… small tubing can make the entire system trash. Eventually you are left with a $500 air cooling equivalent if you steer away from the good products.

If you have to order from multiple places… do it or you will regret purchasing lesser quality products later. I got the Swiftech triple radiator because I was too impatient to wait for the Thermochil and now I really feel like I have to replace mine. To my understanding a double Thermochil is equal to a triple everything else.
August 12, 2008 3:26:08 PM

I would buy this if i were going to water build today. After making certain the Radiator is as good as they claim.
NCIX Water Cooling Ultimate 240 REV.2 CPU Water Cooling Kit
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=29036&vpn=UL...

Add:
Hose-clamps (hardware store)
Copper T line (hardware store)
Fillport.
August 12, 2008 4:50:25 PM

Thanks for your response grieve. I've watched this youtube video displaying Gigabyte's liquid cooling system (item page here). They claim that their tubing can fit through a PCI slot at the back so I went to check out their product page for the size of their tubing and it says 1/2" tubing. Is that possible?

Can I place the reservoir leveled with the pump?
a c 324 K Overclocking
August 12, 2008 5:36:12 PM

If your primary consideration for a watercooling system is whether or not the tubing fits through a PCI adapter slot, I think you have an entirely incorrect focus. The only products really have that benefit are those with small tubing sizes or maybe a 3/8" size. I would classify that gigabyte setup along the lines as equivalent to the thermaltake one; not good. They make those kits 'appealing' to first time users because of their 'simplicity' and nice appearance. The problem is, they don't perform very well and most will either abandon the kit later, or go out and buy something better...which is what they should do to begin with.

If it is that important to pass tubing through PCI slots, measure and see if they fit. Worst case scenario, you have to cut one out.

Edit: I am pretty sure that is a pump/reservoir component...I don't think you can separate them. 400 l/hr? Kind of weak...very similar specs to the thermaltake one.

Even though it isn't much more powerful, I would trust this
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/5125/ex-pmp-47/Swiftech_MCP355_12v_Water_Pump_Native_38_120_GPH.html?tl=g30c107s154
over either of those integrated pumps in those kits.

1/2" tubing? These are excellent...I'm sure there are other recommended pumps as well.

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/2128/ex-pmp-27/Swiftech_MCP655-B_12v_Water_Pump_w_38_Conversion_Kit_317_GPH.html?tl=g30c107s155
August 12, 2008 6:06:47 PM

Murdoc, PCI pass-thru slots are not ideal for 1/2ID tubing. It would have to be a tubing of a tremendously thin wall for it to even fit through.

400lph? That equates to 105gph.

Rubix pointed out an excellent pump. The MCP355 has an even better "head" characteristic than the more popular MCP655 (almost 11 feet).

For purposes of definition, “Head” refers to the height of a vertical column of water. This is the maximum height that a pump can sustain any semblance of flow rate before it loses its capabilities. For purposes of an example we'll use a pump rated at 317gph with an imaginary "head" of 36 inches. At 0 inches of height you will have maximum flow rate and the pressure will be zero. Pressure is a measure of resistance to flow. Thus, at its initial discharge, at 0 height, the pump experiences its least resistance and generates its fullest flow. As the height in the cooling loop increases, the resistance to flow increases and the flow rate decreases. Earlier we said that our pump had a "head" of 36 inches. The closer the pump gets to its "36 inch" height, the less flow is generated.

The MCP355 is, however, ideally designed for 3/8ID tubing (its factory fitting size) and is audible. You can buy a replacement top for it, though, to rig it for 1/2ID.

a c 324 K Overclocking
August 12, 2008 6:19:33 PM

I know the older versions of the 355 (not sure which one it was...) sometimes had issues at startup and the rotor would stay suspended unless you 'tapped' it. Not cool for a water system for stagnant water to heat up...

They have been fixed for a few years now, so that issue is non-existant now. I think they have one that is a bay res/pump combo for around $99...if you were building a small form case or mid tower, that is a good way to go.
August 12, 2008 6:30:31 PM

You are thinking about the MCP350. I have a drivebay reservoir/pump combo with it that I use when I want to cool the mosfets around my CPU on my TEC rig.

!