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Blu-Ray?

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February 4, 2008 7:36:36 PM

OK, so I just finished building a new computer, and plan on putting a blu-ray drive into it. I have a few questions!

First of all, let me tell you what I got running:
  1. MOBO - nForce 780i SLI
  2. PSU - xion 600w
  3. CPU - intel core2 Quad Q6700 (OC to 3.3 ghz) (with freezone watercool)
  4. HDD - maxtor 500GB SATA
  5. RAM - corsair xms ddr2-800
  6. GPU - 6800 GT
  7. NIC - DLINK Xtreme N PCIe
  8. dvd drive, dvd burner, floppy


So, heres what I plan on doing! I'd like to get two 8800 GT (SLI'd), Sony Blu-Ray burner, mayb 2 more GB of ram, and last... a nice audio card (x-fi probably).

Right now I have my computer hooked to my:
Sony 26" KDL-26S2010 LCD via VGA.

Heres the question... Im not really sure what HDCP does (i know it has to do with protecting material, and blu-ray), but the 8800GT is HDCP capable, but I dont think my TV is (not sure tho). The sound card will be last, and will run into my receiver.

1. Does my TV need to be HDCP compatible to watch a blu-ray in hd (720p)?
2. Do i need any software to watch a blu-ray dvd?
3. What output should I use? (VGA, Component (from videocard), DVI > HDMI convert > HDMI on TV)
4. Do i need a sound card? my mobo has an optical out.
5. My tv supports 16:9 (1366:768) and my monitor is set to 1360:768. Will this deliver the picture in HD?

Im sure I may have some more questions, but thats all I can think of now. All help is appricated!

More about : blu ray

February 4, 2008 7:51:48 PM

1) No, your graphics card will take care of the HDCP decoding.
2) Probably (not sure about this one).
3) HDMI to HDMI if possible, if not then DVI to HDMI.
4) No, but a good soundcard will give out higher quality audio (if you can tell the difference.. I know I can't). If you connect the card through HDMI you won't need to connect the audio by itself, as HDMI carries video as well as audio.
5) You may need to make a custom resolution to fit the screen on your TV.
I never used my PC on an HDTV, so someone who has will give you a better answer.

Don't know if this interests you, but there is a good LG Blu-Ray and HD-DVD player going on newegg for $300. Personally I think it's better than getting a Blu-Ray player only.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


February 4, 2008 8:02:28 PM

For number four, HDMI will not carry over sound on a Nvidia card using a HDMI to DVI cable. You will need to have some sort of sound card in your computer, whether it be onboard or a stand-alone card is up to you. As far as software is concerned, they come with OEM PowerDVD HD.

Also, depending on your TV, hooking up an 8800GT or any Nvidia card might result in an overscan issue. If this is the case, you'll have to use the "Resize my Desktop" feature found in Nview or adjust your v and h size if available.

If you have any more questions just ask, I've had my HDTV as my primary display for about 1.5 years, with both Nvidia and ATI cards.
Related resources
February 4, 2008 8:09:04 PM

An 8800GT would be just find for what your doing. Only downside is there isn't an 8800GT with HDMI but that can easily be fixed with an DVI-HDMI connection, you just wouldnt get the sound portion of it.

Also software absolutely matters. Not all versions of WinDVD and PowerDVD will give you proper playback and Dolby Digital options. People have complained about the LG drive that it wont play newer bluray movies but this could also be because of software and improper use of the drives. Sound card may also be advantageous as well. Auzentech X-Fi Prelude would probably be a good choice for it also offers optical outputs as well as digital coax.
February 4, 2008 8:19:27 PM

Use DVI-HDMI for best possible picture, if it works.
monoprice.com sells those cables.


If you use (15pin) Analog VGA port, HDCP capable screen/TV is not needed yet.
But the 'flag' on the dics could be turned on a near future.

February 4, 2008 8:26:48 PM

Your TV "WILL" need to be HDCP compliant to watch HD. Only one work around for it is to use Any DVD HD if your monitor isnt compliant. So either way no worrys. I would go with the LG combo drive as well.
February 4, 2008 8:36:44 PM

One important point is that HDCP won't work with crossfire/SLI enabled. You'll have to drop to single card mode, but either output on either card will then work for Blu-ray playback to a compliant monitor.

Only ATI cards, such as the HD3870, have audio included with the HDMI output, and they're better multimedia cards than the 8x00's anyway since they support output mirroring, which the Nvidias don't.

That LG HD player can be had much cheaper than $300, more like $239, such as at Ncix. Also the Pioneer player, while only doing Blu-ray, in my experience is a better DVD burner than the LG.
February 4, 2008 8:36:46 PM

bash007 said:
1) No, your graphics card will take care of the HDCP decoding.


Not really.

If you want to watch through a digital connection - HDMI or DVI - then BOTH the TV and videocard must be HDCP compliant.

If you use analog to output the signal - such as component video - then HDCP compliance doesn't matter.
February 4, 2008 8:46:23 PM

Hmmm... I was under the (apparently wrong) impression that as long as you had something to take care of HDCP, it didn't matter whether your monitor was HDCP compliant or not.

Well, thanks for correcting me.
February 4, 2008 8:47:39 PM

*edited to reflect intent of OP*

1. You may eventually need an HDCP compatible HDTV. This means either DVI or HDMI. VGA cannot support HDCP. Some future Blu-Ray disks may require a complete end-to-end HDCP connection (incl. a compatible GPU, connection and display) or will not play. Bash007, this is what you need to keep in mind. Specific disks may require analog output to be downgraded to 540p, or not shown at all, at the whim of the publisher.
2. Yes, but it might come with the BR drive. Check out Cyberlink PowerDVD HD. Note that none are perfect w.r.t. interactive material, and they do not integrate all that well with MCE features.
3. DVI(-D, not -A) or HDMI if at all possible. Electrically these are the same and therefore neither will cause signal degradation when transferring to the other, but DVI will have issues with the audio (if you care - if you send your HDMI cable thru a decoding receiver), and will likely not include HDCP support unless explicitly indicated with your product. (the 8800s do support it; the 6800 probably does not)

4. The latest-and-greatest HD audio formats for movies (Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio) don't appear to be supported by much if any audio cards yet - or receivers, for that matter. If anyone knows otherwise, I'd be happy to hear of it! Furthermore, HDMI is and HDCP may be required for these so you may need either the up-and-coming HDMI sound integrator card (by audigy? not sure) that has an HDMI in and an HDMI out with the sound getting "injected" into the signal in the middle, or an integrated audio/video card such as the ATi HD2600 (though currently none of the ATi HD cards support either of the two full HD audio formats anyway). ATi GPU cards e.g. HD2600XT support mid-grade digital audio in the HDCP-protected signal so shd be able to play those. Anything coming out of your SP/DIF connector is considered unprotected and might get blocked by the BR drive's drivers; if not blocked, they can usually provide a down-sampled Dolby Digital EX or DTS-ES version of the HD sound. Analog, however, shd be allowed to pass so you might be able to use the analog L/R/C/S/SL/SR/SBL/SBR connectors on your Mobo to connect to your receiver to at least deliver 6.1 Dolby Digital EX or DTS-ES. Check your Mobo's audio output support for more info.

5. Your GPU should automatically scale the video image to the monitor resolution (1360x768). It sounds like your TV will then need to scale or pad that out to 1366 columns. If your TV has a "dot-by-dot" mode or some other means to display the image as-is without scaling, use that. You'll have blank lines 3-pixels wide on each side of your image, which is too narrow to even see. If your TV stretches the image, it will blur all of the vertical lines slightly, which you don't want.

The scaler in your GPU (even the 6800 series) is probably better than most scalers in your A/V hardware, including cable boxes, the TV itself, and your receiver. So the fact that you'll be scaling from 1080p to 768p in your GPU should be much better than doing the same in a standalone Blu-Ray player or your TV.

Note: I do not have a HD disk player yet. The info above is based on my research of the subject only.
February 4, 2008 8:48:06 PM

These days almost all TVs and Video cards support HDCP. If your worried about it just check your TV manual.
February 4, 2008 8:50:28 PM

Yes you need 3rd software to play BluRay content.

Honestly I would stay away from BlurRay, Its the most anticonsumer format that has been released in a while.
February 4, 2008 9:16:02 PM

For the price it will cost you to buy soundcard, drive, software etc it is actually cheaper to just buy a standalone player which has none of the above issues. Also factor in the time it will take to get everything working. You will also get better picture quality from a standalone player.
February 4, 2008 9:19:17 PM

You won't get better IQ quality from a stand-alone player and he also has the ability to burn Blu-ray discs with the LG combo.
February 4, 2008 9:20:28 PM

The only issue with standalone players is that the BR spec isnt finished yet. So your brand new standalone profile 2.0 player wont play newer movies that have a spec revision. This is already the case with 1.0 and 1.1 devices not being able to play newer 2.0 movies.
February 4, 2008 9:35:45 PM

skittle said:
The only issue with standalone players is that the BR spec isnt finished yet. So your brand new standalone profile 2.0 player wont play newer movies that have a spec revision. This is already the case with 1.0 and 1.1 devices not being able to play newer 2.0 movies.


A lot of the newer players are BR 2.0 spec. TBH I really don't like BR at all. It is so user unfriendly and just feels like a half arsed job. The IQ has no disnerable differences between HD DVD either. I think its a shame that HD DVD might die off because as a product I prefer it.

IndigoMoss said:
You won't get better IQ quality from a stand-alone player and he also has the ability to burn Blu-ray discs with the LG combo.


Any AV enthusiast will tell you that you get a better picture from a standalone player. Probably not noticable to the average person. It will be much closer with budget players but move up the market a little and there is a difference. Having the ability to burn BR discs is almost useless. As has already been said there compatability issues already which will be worse with homemade discs. Secondly becuase off all the copyright junk involved with BR I'm not even sure if the drive will be able to make copies.
February 4, 2008 9:44:57 PM

Yeah, burning BR is pretty useless, but ripping them into x264 isnt.
February 4, 2008 10:01:54 PM

^^^Agreed but x264 burning is still of very limited usefulness.
February 4, 2008 10:08:42 PM

Hey, thanks for all the quick responses! If it wasnt for the hdcp/future issues (like not being able to play future movies possibly) id get one... but i guess id be better off buying a stand alone. idk, mayb ill do both.

One more question... I know blu-ray and hddvd players both use blue lasers, so can the software read hd-dvd AND blu-ray from a blu-ray player? If so, this might be the way to go.
February 4, 2008 10:08:58 PM

Until the price comes down on media it's a waste of money. Also the copy protection can be removed with AnyDVD HD. I would assume this also negates the need for HDCP requirements.

February 4, 2008 10:13:28 PM

What? x264 is open source, cross platform and is supported on major media devices (read PS3, 360, ipod)... not to mention my HTPC. Plus I dont have to worry about scratching my expensive disks.
Sorry, but that is quite useful.
February 5, 2008 1:30:13 PM

TeraMedia said:
*edited to reflect intent of OP*

1. You may eventually need an HDCP compatible HDTV. This means either DVI or HDMI. VGA cannot support HDCP. Some future Blu-Ray disks may require a complete end-to-end HDCP connection (incl. a compatible GPU, connection and display) or will not play. Bash007, this is what you need to keep in mind. Specific disks may require analog output to be downgraded to 540p, or not shown at all, at the whim of the publisher.


This isn't quite right either:

- You need an HDCP compatible TV and Videocard to play digital HD TODAY. All HD-DVD and Blu-ray disks released by movie companies require this RIGHT NOW.

If you're laying through a digital connection to your TV - HDMI or DVI - and it works, your TV is HDCP compatible.

You don't need HDCP to play through an analog connection, however... through component cables or a VGA cable.


What future Blu-ray disks might do is 1. reduce the resolution shown on ANALOG connection and 2. shut off analog connections entirely, meaning you have to watch digitally (and therefore with HDCP compatible videocard and display).

February 5, 2008 2:09:02 PM

1) Video Card(Or any Video player) and TV must be HDCP compliant to display 1080P for Blue Ray or HD-DVD
2) PowerDVD from Cyberlink is what I'm using to play HD-DVD and Blue-Ray on my PC. Caution about new Video cards (e.g. 8800gt); Cyberlink is ~ 2.5 months late. It does not recognize 8800gt and latest driver from nvdia. They sent me patch to get buy. So I'm waiting for another software update from cyberlink.

Cyberlink process both Video and 5.1 or 6.1 Audio(whatever comes with the disc)
3) The Video output; i use DVI to HDMI. My sound is through optical-link going to my receiver (Not TV).

4) I use the NVIDIA control-panel to adjust my HD display settings. My current setting is 1080P.

5) My mobo has a built in audio 7.1. For now i'm using it, optical link to my receiver. So far its working fine.


Heres my setup:
CPU: Q6600
Mobo: Asus Maximus Formula
Memory: 4 gByte
Video: BFG 8800GT OC 512
PS: Antec Quatro 850
Display : 70 Inch HD TV (JVC)/// 2 HDMI
Optical Drive: LG HL-DT-ST-BD-RE GGW-H20L // Blue Ray Writer player/ HD-DVD Player; SATA Interface; No issue with this drive

Sound: I use my receiver and home speakers for the sound. I pick the signal from the optical link from the motherboard.



February 5, 2008 3:41:20 PM

Ok... so let me get this straight. My lcd has 1 hdmi input which is currently in use by an upconverting dvd player (which i can switch to component). Since the tv has an hdmi, it is hdcp compatible?

So, I can throw in a blu-ray burner and use my optical out on my mobo into my receiver and use a dvi > hdmi converter into my lcd through an 8800 GT? will this work?

Also, can the software read hddvd's off of a blu-ray drive?
February 5, 2008 3:54:28 PM

leon2006 said:
1) Video Card(Or any Video player) and TV must be HDCP compliant to display 1080P for Blue Ray or HD-DVD


Only if you use digital HDMI or DVI.

Not if you use analog component or analog VGA to output. With analog, the display doesn't have to be HDCP compliant.
February 5, 2008 4:00:29 PM

koga73 said:
Ok... so let me get this straight. My lcd has 1 hdmi input which is currently in use by an upconverting dvd player (which i can switch to component). Since the tv has an hdmi, it is hdcp compatible?

So, I can throw in a blu-ray burner and use my optical out on my mobo into my receiver and use a dvi > hdmi converter into my lcd through an 8800 GT? will this work?

Also, can the software read hddvd's off of a blu-ray drive?


1. Having HDMI doesn't guarantee HDCP compatibility, but if it's a modern TV with HDMI, then it's EXTREMELY likely to be HDCP compatible.

2. DVI-HDMI converters can be touch and go with some TVs. If the converter came specifically with your videocard, it should work though. And your audio solution should work too, although you might have to fiddle with it.

3. Blu-ray drives cannot read HD-DVD's unless it's a hybrid drive


Alternatively, why not use the component adapter that probably came with your videocard? Component video should be able to output at 1080p as well, no discernable visual difference between that and HDMI or DVI.
February 5, 2008 4:12:28 PM

The Cyberlink software check for HDCP compliance of the HW. Regardless of what connection you use.

You can use DVI-to HDMI or the ANALOG-COMPONENT-Out dongle that came with the BFG 8800GT card.

Any connection i use from my 8800GT card to my TV the software check for HDCP compliance of the HW.

If your HW is not HDCP compliant it will not display 1080P.

The software knows....
February 5, 2008 4:41:09 PM

A bit off-topic but does anybody know why it seems to take forever for either HD or BD to load a movie? A friend just bought an HD player and I just bought a BD (Sony BDP-S300) and we both noticed it takes well over a minute to load a hidef movie. Picture is fantastic however.

February 5, 2008 5:50:27 PM

I wonder if it has to build a buffer or something to ensure a smooth play? Just a guess. \(O.º)/
February 5, 2008 5:54:44 PM

leon2006 said:

If your HW is not HDCP compliant it will not display 1080P.



Yes it will, but not through a digital output like HDMI or DVI.

It will display HD through an analog output like VGA or component video, even if nothing in the chain is HDCP compliant. (until some time in the future if they decide to turn off analog capability in new HD-DVDs or Blu-Ray disks)
February 5, 2008 6:06:35 PM

skittle said:
What? x264 is open source, cross platform and is supported on major media devices (read PS3, 360, ipod)... not to mention my HTPC. Plus I dont have to worry about scratching my expensive disks.
Sorry, but that is quite useful.


TBH I didn't realise the PS3, 360, ipod could use it. So fair enough.

fazers_on_stun said:
A bit off-topic but does anybody know why it seems to take forever for either HD or BD to load a movie? A friend just bought an HD player and I just bought a BD (Sony BDP-S300) and we both noticed it takes well over a minute to load a hidef movie. Picture is fantastic however.


The reason for this is because the technology is immature. The first dvd players were like that. Sometimes you think the damn things are broken. With every new release of player they are getting quicker. Currently BR drives are slower than HD dvd drives at loading.

Cleeve
I don't think composite can output 1080p. I think its limited to 1080i720p.
February 5, 2008 6:12:16 PM

gpippas said:

I don't think composite can output 1080p. I think its limited to 1080i720p.


I believe that's a myth. Component is capable of 1080p. However, it might be artificially limited to 1080i on protected disks. This is something I'll ask the manufacturers for clarification on the next time I write an Avivo vs. Purevideo article for Tom's...

According to Wikipedia, Component will carry 1080p, but some TV's do not support it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_video

Here are some component cables advertised to support 1080p:
http://www.hdtvsupply.com/coca10te1.html
February 5, 2008 6:28:18 PM

Sorry about that I read composite not component. I thought thats odd I didn't think composite could even do hd. Then I confused myself thinking it might be able to do 1080i. As an AV enthusiast and Electrical and Electronic eng masters uni student I'm ashamed of myself. In my defence I am very tired.

You are correct however about component. There was a myth (purely HDMI marketing) that it can't output 1080p. This isn't true. However like you said only certain tv's allow for component 1080p. Also a lot of players limit HD to HDMI only not even allowing for 1080i. I think the main the reason is to do with the players/tv's not having the ability to do such a complex DAC conversion without losing picture quality at 24fps and 100hz refresh rate. So instead it is scaled to a more managable 1080i. It also reduces the cost.

Going through component also means missing out on (for me) the greatest experiance with HD, the sound. The new sound formats also LPCM just sound incredible.
February 5, 2008 6:43:18 PM

I work pretty much exclusively with graphics cards, so I didn't know there were players out there disallowing 1080i on component - interesting. To my knowledge, any graphics card that supports component output supports 1080p as well.

As for sound, that's also something I need to look into more. On the PC, most solutions will split up sound and video even when using an HDMI cable, because almost nobody has an HDMI amplifier on their PC. And some HDMI solutions only allow compressed sound on the PC.
February 5, 2008 7:56:49 PM

Yeah sound wise the PC has always been behind to dedicated equipment. The problem at the moment is the full features of HDMI 1.3 aren't really supported on the PC yet.

I know that the current range of ATI cards can output audio over HDMI but I think it is compressed audio rather than the high bit rates used by TrueHD etc. My knowledge of AV equipment is of dedicated seperates rather than PC systems.

I would be interested Cleeve in your next Avivo vs. Purevideo article if you could find out about the audio from the ATI cards. Also to find out what will output what with which cables.
February 5, 2008 11:36:45 PM

Cleeve

1080P Analog Option using the BFG 8800GT OC 512

BFG 8800 GT OC 512 has an analog output. Its a completely analog output not using the the DVI connectors. The analog output is in between the two DVI connector of the card. It's supported by a dongle that breaks out to component video output.

Yes it plays 1080P...

Using this analog connection to play Blue Ray and HD-DVD the cyberlink software still check for HDCP compliant of the video card.

If the cyberlink software detects compliance it will DISPLAY 1080P. If not it will play but not 1080P. I tried this option but the Cyberlink software will check for HDCP compliance before playing 1080P.

Do you know of any software that bypass HDCP compliance using the analog output of the video card?




February 6, 2008 3:07:03 AM

leon2006 said:


Do you know of any software that bypass HDCP compliance using the analog output of the video card?


SlySoft's AnyDVD.

Also the PS3 and Xbox360 currently do not require HDCP for playback to 1080P. Also alot of media ships without the requirement being active on the disk.

The requirement can be there, but your statement that it must always be there isn't correct, and I think you miss what Cleeve is trying to convey to you.
February 6, 2008 3:30:54 AM

Exactly.

I believe older versions of PowerDVD didn't check for HDCP compliance to play HD content, but perhaps they've changed that in the newer versions.
February 6, 2008 3:38:21 AM

gpippas said:
Yeah sound wise the PC has always been behind to dedicated equipment. The problem at the moment is the full features of HDMI 1.3 aren't really supported on the PC yet.

I know that the current range of ATI cards can output audio over HDMI but I think it is compressed audio rather than the high bit rates used by TrueHD etc. My knowledge of AV equipment is of dedicated seperates rather than PC systems.


Correct.

They are supposed to be coming with the next nVidia mobo chipset, they mention the support for TrueHD and DTS-HD (nothing mentioned about uncompressed PCM) and whether this is DTS-HD only or the better DTS-HD Master is not specific but since they use TrueHD instead of Dolby Digital Plus I hope it's DTS-HD-M however I'll believe it when I see it not being some sort of conversion. Linear PCM is the best we can expect now along with Dolby Digital and DTS which are lower on the totem pole from LPCM.

The HD series by ATi can act as a pass-through for whatever the realtek chips provide, but in my case it's limited to DTS, DD, DTS Connect, DDL, and LPCM all of which would be lossy compressed and not quite as good at DD+ or plain DTS-HD.

Now if they were to add the ALC885 then you could do any of the HD audio formats supported;
http://www.realtek.com.tw/products/productsView.aspx?La...

Unfortunately mine is paire with the 262 which has great SNR, but does not have that added supports, but will do DTS/DTSC and DD/DDL like I mentioned.

Quote:
I would be interested Cleeve in your next Avivo vs. Purevideo article if you could find out about the audio from the ATI cards. Also to find out what will output what with which cables.


Depends on the foundation hardware, with the right codec based hardware you could support any format through the HDMI 1.3 capable pass-through connection.

PS, I'm looking at maybe picking up one of these for a birthday present to myself, but I'm still on the fence;
http://www.atic.ca/index.php?page=LongDesc&sku=45986

It'd be nice, but for now I already have an Xbox HD-DVD for the laptop, and then 2 standalone players, plus the use of my GF's PS3 (thank god for final fantasy freaks :sol: ), so not sure about my 'need' for such a thing other than it's 'cool'.

Oh, and PPS: to the OP be sure to replace your GF6800, it'll chug terribly trying to handle alot of content on these dual-layer disks, especially the higher bit-rate H.264, IMO get an HD3K series for playback of these tough titles. The GF9600 is rumoured ot have an improved PureVideo engine, but we haven't seen it yet so it's still an unknown, but who knows could be damn impressive. VC1 decoding isn't really an issue, it would be nice for nV to decode AVC and VC-1 the same , but the tough stuff is H.264.

And don't bother with an audio card or anything if you're just hooking it up to your system via toslink or co-ax, you can only do the high end audio through HDMI 1.3, and would have to pass it through your compliant receiver first. If your mobo supports DTS or linear PCM, then you could send that via the toslink to your receiver, and the DTS is actually 'OK', although not as good as DD+/DDTrueHD & DTS-HD/HD-Master obviously, but still noticeably better than standard Dolby Digital.
February 6, 2008 1:23:57 PM

DTS used to sound so good before I heard DDTrueHD. Annoyingly my reciever is HDMI 1.2 so can only recieve LPCM. Its not all bad it just means the reciever won't decode the formats. There are a lot of recievers out there which don't extract the audio from HDMI which is useless.

Untill recently a lot of HD players were incapable of outputting the HD sound formats because of piracy issues. Using analogue connections it was possible to have the player decode the new formats rather than the reciever.

OP
I agree with Ape a sound card isn't necassary. Also the HD3k series cards do a better job of HD decoding.
February 6, 2008 9:50:42 PM

rgeist554 said:
I wonder if it has to build a buffer or something to ensure a smooth play? Just a guess. \(O.º)/


Yeah, that's what I guess is happening too. I'm also guessing both technologies suffer from some tracking errors with the distance between tracks being so much smaller than DVD, plus the time it takes to make sure the data path is fully HCP compliant and protected.

Well the picture is amazing but I think the industry has sorta shot itself in the kneecap with all this excessive copy protection and not to mention the stupid format war. Plus the discs costing 50 - 100% more than the equivalent DVD.
February 6, 2008 10:48:08 PM

fazers_on_stun said:

Well the picture is amazing but I think the industry has sorta shot itself in the kneecap with all this excessive copy protection and not to mention the stupid format war. Plus the discs costing 50 - 100% more than the equivalent DVD.


Yep, the war has hurt both, and with the widespread availability of HD content via Sattelite, Cable and ADSL/FIOS with HD-VOD now, they're killing themselves with people simply enjoying other formats. I lent my HD-DVD player, and my Xbox HD-player to two friends over the Xmas break while I was out east, and both said the same thing when I got back: "It was nice watching it but since I already have HD TV channels, I wasn't really overly impressed, and the disks are so expensive" , and remember these are people who already paid over $2,000 for a TV and have no problem paying $100 a month for content, and if they think it's too expensive you're never going to get beyond niche status. I doubt the best selling HD-DVD or BR in it's entire run ever cam close to selling as many disks as the first week's DVD sales of a top 10 title last year.

The best chance for either format was dual-layer combo disks selling at a $5 premium above a standard DVD.

If you can sell me Blade Runner's 5 disk set for $34.99 then why can't you sell me either a dual layer combo disk or else a dual layer HD-DVD + Dual Layer DVD for $20-25?

IMO the industry is run by Morons who don't understand economics, let alone consumer psychology.

And the payoffs to Studios has to come from somewhere, so instead of bringing prices down with the best format, the prices are inflated because of these $500 million backroom deals and this whole deficit financing concept brought over from game consoles. [:thegreatgrapeape:5]
February 7, 2008 10:01:32 PM

TheGreatGrapeApe said:
Yep, the war has hurt both, and with the widespread availability of HD content via Sattelite, Cable and ADSL/FIOS with HD-VOD now, they're killing themselves with people simply enjoying other formats. I lent my HD-DVD player, and my Xbox HD-player to two friends over the Xmas break while I was out east, and both said the same thing when I got back: "It was nice watching it but since I already have HD TV channels, I wasn't really overly impressed, and the disks are so expensive" , and remember these are people who already paid over $2,000 for a TV and have no problem paying $100 a month for content, and if they think it's too expensive you're never going to get beyond niche status. I doubt the best selling HD-DVD or BR in it's entire run ever cam close to selling as many disks as the first week's DVD sales of a top 10 title last year.

The best chance for either format was dual-layer combo disks selling at a $5 premium above a standard DVD.

If you can sell me Blade Runner's 5 disk set for $34.99 then why can't you sell me either a dual layer combo disk or else a dual layer HD-DVD + Dual Layer DVD for $20-25?

IMO the industry is run by Morons who don't understand economics, let alone consumer psychology.

And the payoffs to Studios has to come from somewhere, so instead of bringing prices down with the best format, the prices are inflated because of these $500 million backroom deals and this whole deficit financing concept brought over from game consoles. [:thegreatgrapeape:5]


Isn't there something like 450 BD titles out and 400 HD titles out? Compared to DVD's 70K+ titles that's not even a blip. After DVD came out, the difference between it and VHS was so significant that I gradually replaced most of my favorite movies with the DVD format. But the difference moving to HiDef is not nearly as great, so I'll probably replace my LOTR trilogy and maybe Bladerunner and a couple other eye-candy ones, but that's it. And be a lot more selective when buying new movies in HiDef format, instead of just tossing a new DVD in the cart at Sam's Club as an impulse buy.

Hell I'm considering dropping Comcash cable and going to over-the-air ATSC which is FREE and in my opinion, better than the cable HD that Comcrap offers.
February 7, 2008 10:30:11 PM

I think your content numbers are maybe down by half, but there's likely not many more than 1,000 titles in either camp, and there are more in BR than HD, but really it's pathetic.

And alot of the disks that are out there are pointless on HD, Casablanca on HD? Errol Flynn's Robin Hood? C'mon!

If either wanted to makes sales jump releasing LOTR on either format equals 200+K sales there, same with Star Wars and Aliens franchises IMO.

Biggest mistake HD-DVD made was bundling Matrix instead of letting people buy it alone. It was one of the watershed DVD titles that made people buy players (the one for me was Top Gun), and likely would've sold a ton more if people weren't forced to buy the mediocre 2 sequels as well; $30-35 for the Matrix, sure but $80 for all three when all I want is one, forget it!

I see the difference between HD and SD, but the majority of people don't, so charging hefty premiums just kills your market and forces you to burden more of the start-up development cost on a smaller pool of consumers.

IMO BR didn't 'WIN' , if anything they just got a reprive from death, but their end time will come soon enough too, especially if they continue on with these myopic strategies that saw neither format grow.

As for the OTA-Cable, OTA is not heavily compressed, while cable usually is, which is why FIOS is usually better and closer to OTA (but you don't get VOD without some hardline). Alot of it really depends on where you are, if you have the OTA option that's nice, but some of us need one of the triumvirate of evil: Sat, Cable, DSL/Fibre.
February 8, 2008 11:44:56 AM

Quote:
Yeah, that's what I guess is happening too. I'm also guessing both technologies suffer from some tracking errors with the distance between tracks being so much smaller than DVD, plus the time it takes to make sure the data path is fully HCP compliant and protected.

Well the picture is amazing but I think the industry has sorta shot itself in the kneecap with all this excessive copy protection and not to mention the stupid format war. Plus the discs costing 50 - 100% more than the equivalent DVD.


Just to kinda recomment on the 1 minute buffer. I don't have a standalone player, but I just received my LG GGC-H20L (Blu-ray / HD-DVD) for my PC and it only takes about 5 seconds after you press play to start. So I'm guessing the hardware in the blu-ray players is still in it's infancy or something.
February 8, 2008 12:58:49 PM

Well guy's, I bought a Blue Ray for my PC by Lite On a few weeks ago and it's amazing. The software that it came with was PowerDvD 7.3 BD edition. I have a HDCP complient Monitor but only goes as far as 1080i. I also have a receiver that's not HDMI compatable, so I can't connect via HDMI to the receiver and another to the Monitor for DOLBY true HD sound.

rgeist554 wrote,
So I'm guessing the hardware in the blu-ray players is still in it's infancy or something.

There is a patch that just came out yesterday for powerdvd 7.3 Bd edition that made it run faster to load the disc.

But yeah it still alittle infancy if you must say.

I wish that Xp can recongnize the disc so there wont be any lag.

The book said that you have to install UDF reader to see the content of the disc, but doesn't place an update on XP. which sucks.

But yeah hope everyone that has a Blue Ray player, Enjoy!
February 8, 2008 1:11:43 PM

Quote:
There is a patch that just came out yesterday for powerdvd 7.3 Bd edition that made it run faster to load the disc.

But yeah it still a little infancy if you must say.
Ah, I just downloaded that patch yesterday. (The powerDVD software updates pretty well, pretty much saying "Hey, download this update or your discs may not play correctly.") I like it!

I was mainly referring to the hardware in the standalone players that go directly to the TV though. I don't think they're quite optimized for a zippy initial load and play time.

Quote:
The book said that you have to install UDF reader to see the content of the disc, but doesn't place an update on XP. which sucks.
The UDF driver failed to install correctly a total of three times, it would cause an instant BSOD and reboot as soon right after the Windows load screen. I booted into Last Known Good Config... and removed it. Now everything is working fine, it still plays both HD and Blu-ray movies with out a problem. (I will admit though, the initial install + BSOD was getting me a little worried, but all is well now :D )
February 8, 2008 9:55:13 PM

gpippas said:

The reason for this is because the technology is immature. The first dvd players were like that. Sometimes you think the damn things are broken. With every new release of player they are getting quicker. Currently BR drives are slower than HD dvd drives at loading.



Well I did a little more research and it turns out that my now-outdated Sony 300 (replaced by the 301) had a firmware version of 3.20. So I downloaded version 3.70 off their website, burned the ISO to a CDR and flashed the firmware this morning. Haven't had a chance to play with it much but Spiderman 3 definitely seems to load faster.

Funny thing is that Sony doesn't put the manufacturing date on the player, unlike the TV. Guess there's a federal law mandating the date on TVs but not on other electronic equipment. However the player had to be backordered by Best Buy so it wasn't like sitting on the shelf for months... If it was recently manufactured you'd think it would have a firmware version closer to the latest.
February 8, 2008 10:19:02 PM

koga73 said:
OK, so I just finished building a new computer, and plan on putting a blu-ray drive into it. I have a few questions!

First of all, let me tell you what I got running:
  1. MOBO - nForce 780i SLI
  2. PSU - xion 600w
  3. CPU - intel core2 Quad Q6700 (OC to 3.3 ghz) (with freezone watercool)
  4. HDD - maxtor 500GB SATA
  5. RAM - corsair xms ddr2-800
  6. GPU - 6800 GT
  7. NIC - DLINK Xtreme N PCIe
  8. dvd drive, dvd burner, floppy


So, heres what I plan on doing! I'd like to get two 8800 GT (SLI'd), Sony Blu-Ray burner, mayb 2 more GB of ram, and last... a nice audio card (x-fi probably).

Right now I have my computer hooked to my:
Sony 26" KDL-26S2010 LCD via VGA.

Heres the question... Im not really sure what HDCP does (i know it has to do with protecting material, and blu-ray), but the 8800GT is HDCP capable, but I dont think my TV is (not sure tho). The sound card will be last, and will run into my receiver.

1. Does my TV need to be HDCP compatible to watch a blu-ray in hd (720p)?
2. Do i need any software to watch a blu-ray dvd?
3. What output should I use? (VGA, Component (from videocard), DVI > HDMI convert > HDMI on TV)
4. Do i need a sound card? my mobo has an optical out.
5. My tv supports 16:9 (1366:768) and my monitor is set to 1360:768. Will this deliver the picture in HD?

Im sure I may have some more questions, but thats all I can think of now. All help is appricated!


yes you need a software to watch blowme-ray movies ;) ... like powerDVD 7****
!