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Old school AGP

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February 7, 2008 11:53:37 AM

Ok so I am now looking @ finally upgrading my graphics card after 4years and i know my system is outdated but I can't afford the 2k+ for the one I would love to build.

here is my specs currently:
amd athlon XP 2500+ barton core OC'd to 3200+
OCZ Platinum 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory
timings @ 2-3-2-5
now here is where I am diff. HD 160, 250, 80gb dvd rom, dvd burner, cd burner
running on a gigabyte 7n400 pro 2 rev 2. been in for repair 3 times this last year now works great
geforce fx5600 graphics card 128mb(think it may be a msi as it came with my old desk top).

Now what I have been looking @ is the EVGA e-GeForce 7600GT Superclocked 512MB DDR2
Part Number: 512-A8-N559-TR or the e-GeForce 7300GT AGP
Part Number: 512-A8-N501-LR.

Now I would love to get even higher it possible but haven't found any luck with out maybe going to ATI but I like NVIDIA since I haven't had any issues before so why change when no need.

Any help is Appreciated.

More about : school agp

February 7, 2008 12:14:31 PM

The best card available for agp is the 1950pro. I wouldnt put anymore money into that system though. Its a bit of a dead horse. Also anything you buy now for it can't be used on a future system, HDD excepted.
February 7, 2008 12:24:58 PM

I have a 2400+ and just upgraded to a Ati 1650 Pro 256mb ddr3. It bottlenecks the heck out of the cpu but helps compared to my old GF 4400Ti .

I got the 1650 for $55 shipped. I think it would bottleneck your cpu as well. So I wouldnt spend more on anything faster than the 1650.
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a c 143 U Graphics card
February 7, 2008 12:26:55 PM

Might need to change the title of this thread to "Old (Special) School AGP" :)  J/K

I used to run a similar system (Barton Core 3200+), 2 Gig DDR-333, and an old ATI Radeon 9200. The first big upgrade for that system was a 7800GS agp and no matter what I did, I just could not get the performance out of it that I was expecting to see. It wasn't until I upgraded the entire rig to a S939 Athlon 64 3500+ that I saw the true performance of the card.

I think you might be dissappointed with upgrading to a newer graphics card with your current system.

-Wolf sends
February 7, 2008 12:32:25 PM

Yes this rig is special and I like it as it is my gaming and sever for right now as I plan on getting a laptop for most of my stuff and use it mainly as a server for all my files of mine and my wifes. I am just looking to boost it a bit as I am building a DVR out of my old HP and figured since doing that and putting new products into that dead old mule(motherboard bottleneck'd) I would do some upgrading in this one to get me by maybe another year or two till I can save up for a laptop(as my wife isn't really too keen on upgrades{everything is replaceable to her}). I had to pull teeth to get her to let me upgrade her new vista laptop to 2gb ram. If I can find any better AGP graphics cards I would like to look and figured 512mb was a good start from 128.
February 7, 2008 12:34:02 PM

I Agree with Wolf

I think the only reason I saw any improvement when I upgraded my card was because I was using such a slow card that didn't totally bottle neck the cpu. Mind you the I didn't see a "big" jump , just a small yet noticable one.

I am kind of in the same boat, but I am done with putting money into parts that I wont use in the next PC i build.

If I were you, I would save up and sell the parts you wont use on ebay. You might be able to get $100 or more all together for ram,mb,cpu
February 7, 2008 12:44:14 PM

unfortuanlty I would love to but I stuck $400 into this thing this year. $200 on ram and another $200 on a new power supply from OCZ 850watt. I hope to see some difference in UT2k4 and Halo and would love to run Crysis or even supreme commander.
February 7, 2008 1:24:48 PM

Another vote for the X1650 PRO. Would be the best fit for that system.

If you need to stay with Nvidia, you could go for a 7300 GT, but it'll be slower. And probably more expensive...
a c 130 U Graphics card
February 7, 2008 2:20:11 PM

gpippas said:
The best card available for agp is the 1950pro. I wouldnt put anymore money into that system though. Its a bit of a dead horse. Also anything you buy now for it can't be used on a future system, HDD excepted.


Your a little behind im afraid they have a 3850 for agp now.

To the OP couple of things really what kind of monitor size/res are you running and at four years old i would just want to check that your PSU is up to the upgrade you want.
I would have thought that from 128 that 256 would be plenty. I doubt that a 1650 pro or a 7600 would be able to properly use any more anyway. If there isnt any price differance between say a 7600GT 256 and 512 then get the 512 but if you have to pay extra for it i wouldnt bother. Make sure its GDDR3 and not 2 it does make a big differance .
mactronix
February 7, 2008 2:34:10 PM

Power supply is a OCZ 850watt currently running an 7year old 17" monitor but within a month or two will be either a 20" or 22" LCD not sure on widescreen yet and hopefully will work up to a dual monitor set up as I use one @ work. Oh and can't seem to find DDR3 unless could go to PCIe which I don't have so stuck with AGP DDR2 since my budget for the new card is about $100
February 7, 2008 3:01:52 PM

thank you will put in my list to research more on as I am not ordering today but within the next week or so and I want to make an intellegent purchase on this so I am not kicking my self in the *ss
February 7, 2008 3:22:04 PM

i say hold out as long as possible to grab the hd3850 agp when it comes out. it will be the best and final card coming out for agp (but then again the 7900, 7950 and x1950xt were supposed to be final!)

February 7, 2008 3:49:45 PM

3850 + Athlon XP = wasted potential. That cpu will bottleneck even an X1950 PRO in alot of apps.

That X1650 GT on newegg that Mactronix linked to would be spectacular for your system. The X1650 GT has 24 pixel shaders; the X1650 PRO only has 12 pixel shaders. The GT is about as powerful as it's worth going to on an OC'd 2400+
February 7, 2008 3:55:59 PM

heres just a stupid question why does every one run ati and not nvidia??? and how do they compare??? Now I have heard lots of issues with ati drivers vs nvidia now if I didn't have a ati card before do I have to worry about that driver issue?
February 7, 2008 4:19:59 PM

It's only stupid if everyone has been telling you to stick with one or the other. Stick with what works for you and your budget. People whining about driver issues are usually people too stupid to know how to properly install or remove them. Both companies have had their equal share of issues driver related or not.
February 7, 2008 5:20:56 PM

Anoobis said:
It's only stupid if everyone has been telling you to stick with one or the other. Stick with what works for you and your budget. People whining about driver issues are usually people too stupid to know how to properly install or remove them. Both companies have had their equal share of issues driver related or not.


Agreed!!! go for where the power and your budjet lead you...

I have had my fair share of problems from both card makers so it just depends on your personal choice.
February 7, 2008 5:38:38 PM

Anoobis is right. Both Ati and Nvidia make great cards and drivers.

It just happens that in AGP, Nvidia doesn't have a lot of cards available compared to Ati. Ati still offers most of their new cards in AGP, Nvidia stopped with the 7x00 series.
February 7, 2008 6:22:08 PM

cleeve said:
Anoobis is right. Both Ati and Nvidia make great cards and drivers.

It just happens that in AGP, Nvidia doesn't have a lot of cards available compared to Ati. Ati still offers most of their new cards in AGP, Nvidia stopped with the 7x00 series.


I have heard of a couple of unoffical 8x00 cards in agp but the reviews wern't very good and the cards are scarce.
mabey sombody could provide a link?
February 8, 2008 1:16:58 PM

I've heard rumors about 8x00 series cards being developed for AGP; that's ther most concrete thing I've seen. If anyone has a link to something more, I'd also like to see it.
February 8, 2008 1:35:30 PM

I wouldn't spend $100 on it. If you can find a X1650PRO for $50 to $60 like I did, I would go that rout. It is more than our cpu's can handel. Getting a faster card will just be a waste. I got mine from a guy from this forum.
February 8, 2008 2:08:59 PM

An Athlon XP will top out at about a 7600 GT/X1650 XT.

Even an X1950 PRO will show some gains on a 2500+, but it will be limited to a handful of games that really stress the videocard and don't challenge the CPU as much.
a c 130 U Graphics card
February 8, 2008 2:14:20 PM


I have to strongly dissagree with what you are saying cah027, I really feel that the overclock will make the 1650 GT a viable option sure on a stock 2.4 it wouldnt really be an option.
I have a rig that went to the kids not long ago and its running a 3000+ with a 1650 XT which isnt restricted by the CPU (I know this I have tested it) so I dont see why the ops OC to 3200 wouldnt run a GT.
Mactronix
February 8, 2008 4:24:24 PM

I have heard both ways on nvidia and ati but have ran nvidia and never had an issue plus my mobo has NVIDIA nForce2 Ultra 400 System Platform Processor

I am really outdated and I know this but for those looking here is a link to my mobo:
http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/Product...
February 8, 2008 4:25:03 PM

Oh and the only thing I did to oc the processor was incread the fsb from 333 to 400.
a c 143 U Graphics card
February 8, 2008 4:54:53 PM

mactronix said:
I have to strongly dissagree with what you are saying cah027, I really feel that the overclock will make the 1650 GT a viable option sure on a stock 2.4 it wouldnt really be an option.
I have a rig that went to the kids not long ago and its running a 3000+ with a 1650 XT which isnt restricted by the CPU (I know this I have tested it) so I dont see why the ops OC to 3200 wouldnt run a GT.
Mactronix



Mac - Is that an Athlon XP 3000+ (sktA) or an Athlon 64 3000+(s939)?

-Wolf queries
February 8, 2008 5:03:54 PM

Aside from wanting to run a Crossfire or SLI setup (which is a moot point in this case) your motherboard's chipset has little, if any, bearing here. You're limiting your options.
a c 173 U Graphics card
February 8, 2008 5:13:29 PM

Socket A, because he has an NF2. No body really releases bad cards anymore. (maybe some under performing drivers, but the cards tend to be solid.) Now that the FX/NV3x debacle is over with, both companies have cards at various price points worth buying.

I'm not sure why we are arguing over whether to get the GT or Pro. I would get the cheapest of either of these, or the 7600GT that he was looking at. Either of these cards would be fine in his system, or be just more then it can handle. Just get whichever one fits the budget best, and be done with it.

For the record Montec, that doesn't matter. Just because you have a northbridge from Nvidia doesn't mean that you need to run a Nvidia video card. You run an AMD CPU ok on that motherboard don't you? What matters is the slot you plug the device into. (99% of the time anyways...)
February 8, 2008 5:34:33 PM

Mactronix

What I should have said is the 1950pro is the fastest available agp card that can actually be found. I did see a couple 3850 agp's here in england but they have since dissapeared.
February 8, 2008 6:00:09 PM

yes the cpu runs great a little warm around 50C but can't get it any cooler. and 55-60C when under load. My ram upgrade did the best increase. BUT it is stable. I would love to do more intense OC with this machine but don't want to upgrade to liquid or r12/134a cooling as of yet as it keeps my office warm all year round. I also have two 80mm in the front 2 in the rear and one on the side along with a 80mm on the cpu heatsink and a 120 in the power supply. I do know that the 80mm fans move somewhere between 25-30cfm

also I really don't know that with my system if ddr3 isn't really overkill the PixelPipelines of 24 vs 12 would make much difference atleast with my old 17" crt (atleast till I can afford another $200+ on a LCD). I can build pc's and have a fairly good understanding of what is needed but I am in uncharted territory now as it is my own and I am just unsure where to go. I am a noob in some aspects so I am patient and really hope everyone has been patient with me. I have not build a specific gaming pc as of yet just what is usually necessary to get people going so a 128 or a 256 was a good start.
February 8, 2008 6:09:21 PM

4745454b said:

I'm not sure why we are arguing over whether to get the GT or Pro.


Because the GT is a helluva lot more powerful, mostly... :) 
February 8, 2008 7:05:14 PM

I would invest i a new platform first. My brother had an XP 3200+, and he couldn't play COD 4. The CPU wasn't compatible with the game. COD4 requires athlon 64 or higher. So if more games go that route you're screwed. I think it had something to do with the SSE instructions. The XP didn't have it. So I suggest new platform. AMD is really cheap now, so you should be able to get a good dual core, mobo, and ram for next to nothing.
a c 173 U Graphics card
February 8, 2008 7:30:32 PM

cleeve said:
Because the GT is a helluva lot more powerful, mostly... :) 


I'm not sure I was clear enough.

If the overclocked 7600GT is $105, and the x1650pro is $100, and the x1650GT is $110, then there really isn't much difference is there? I personally would grab whichever one is the most powerful, as the difference in price is pretty small. If the most powerful card however is $50+, then I'm not sure I'd get it. (I made up prices, I have no idea what these cards go for.) Hopefully my point is a little clearer.
February 8, 2008 7:39:05 PM

4745454b said:
I'm not sure I was clear enough.

If the overclocked 7600GT is $105, and the x1650pro is $100, and the x1650GT is $110, then there really isn't much difference is there? I personally would grab whichever one is the most powerful, as the difference in price is pretty small. If the most powerful card however is $50+, then I'm not sure I'd get it. (I made up prices, I have no idea what these cards go for.) Hopefully my point is a little clearer.


your actually pretty close after rebates I am still in favor of the 7600GT. I have seen the 7300GT(about $60 after rebates) but didn't see any good reviews of that one and its kinda throw your hand in and see what you come up with on the reviews of any of the cards that are on here so that is why I have asked the great people here some input and I got more ati remarks and recs which I had expected right away but I took them into consideration also so am still on the fence as the pricing is very close. I am not bashing anyone here and I don't like to flame(that much unless its againts intel{big AMD fan}).
February 8, 2008 8:10:43 PM

4745454b said:
I'm not sure I was clear enough.

If the overclocked 7600GT is $105, and the x1650pro is $100, and the x1650GT is $110, then there really isn't much difference is there?


If you can get an AGP 7600 GT for $105, there's no reason to consider either X1650. Just get the 7600 GT.

Didn't know you could find an AGP 7600 GT that cheap...
a b U Graphics card
February 8, 2008 11:14:22 PM

Hmm, I Have a 2.6GHz mobile XP2500+ with an iceQ X1650XT turbo in it and would agree the 7600GT/X1650XT are sweet spots for the Bartons. But with the current prices, I'd grab an HD2600XT instead. I just couldn't spend about the same on a slower card with worse features, like a 7600GT. For sure there are settings in newer games that this card would spank a 7600GT even on his system.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

With more CPU the Potential sure is there , but even with that cpu, why mail a rebate to get the 7600GT $10 cheaper than the HD2600XT with no rebate?
http://www.anandtech.com:80/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3128&p...
February 11, 2008 2:14:31 PM

Paul's sound advice has won me over.

Don't know why I forgot about the 2600 XT there.
February 11, 2008 2:57:35 PM

I have made my decision upon reading all reviews and looking @ pricing and came to the conclusion of getting the 7600GT from newegg. I figured that is should be overkill anyway on many of the recomondations and I really don't mind rebates(have yet to not recieve back). plus it comes with a lifetime warrenty from EVGA. Plus this should keep me going till I can get a laptop and just use my tower as my server as designed.

I do want to thank everyone that has posted as this really helps out and it gave me many options to look @ for something this outdated.
February 27, 2008 6:54:06 AM

jerfle,

COD4 runs on an Athlon XP. There is an file in COD4/main/miles directory that is incompatible with an XP. You can use the mssmp3.asi file from COD2 or look for it on the net. :sol:  A 2600XT 512MB AGP from Newegg would be a better choice.
February 27, 2008 2:26:12 PM

cah027 said:
I have a 2400+ and just upgraded to a Ati 1650 Pro 256mb ddr3. It bottlenecks the heck out of the cpu but helps compared to my old GF 4400Ti .

I got the 1650 for $55 shipped. I think it would bottleneck your cpu as well. So I wouldnt spend more on anything faster than the 1650.


LoL I was just in the same situation with my friend, I recommended the X1650 and he was able to get one on the Bay' for $55 too! For the most bang for you buck on an AGP slot I'd say thats pretty close to 1st place for that price. The 1950Pro does do very well but he didn't want to spend more than $70.
March 24, 2008 4:32:49 PM

Thank you raypozas! That is a sweet bit of information. I'll keep that in mind.
!