New guy here asking for help with an issue that is driving me insane.

Recently built a new system.

Q6600 G0 stepping
Zalman 9500
HD3870 (with a single slot cooler)
Gigabyte X38-DQ6
4x1GB Crosair TwinX RAM
X-Fi Fatal1ty Pro
Compro E700 tuner card
2x WD 750GB HDD
Antec P182
Silverstone 750W PSU (Tier 1 according to Johnny Guru I belive)
Vista Ultimate 64bit

Brought Zalman with the intention of doing a small OC (333x9) to bring the Q6600 to 3.0GHz, but the temps are too high for me to go changing anything.

With power saving options enabled all cores idle about 45C and load at mid/high 60C

Cranking up the case fans, the case has 3, one in the lower compartment, one on the top and one on the back. Leads to about a 5C drop in temps.

Taking the case side off sees the idle temps of the Q6600 drop to just under 40C.

The HD3870 idles at about 50C.

I have reseated the heat sink 3 times, cleaning both HS and CPU and using a diffrent amounts of Zalman's thermal grease. A fair bit to rice sized grain. No change was noted.

I tried to install the Zalman as per instructions, but the retention bar that holds it in seemed to foul on the chokes. The HS' exaust still faces out and the retention bar feels firmly attached, but is aligned vertically instead of horizontal. However you can twist the HS slightly by hand when it is mounted.

Here are some readouts from HWMoniter 1.07.1

Idle (cased closed, case fans low)

Load (same as idle, orthos beta loading all 4 cores)

The system is stable, but I want to use that Zalman.

I think it might be a case temp problem and/or still a HS seating problem.

I found a dodgey (no scale) thermometer and put it in the case, the case temp was about 5C higher than ambient. 20C something ambient, maybe 25C. Summer in Australia.

I think that is all the info I have, thanks for any help.

Actually... your temperature is completely within normal perimeter. I have liquid cooled Q6600 @ 3.2Ghz, and my idle is the same, with load @ 50C. Since you're on air, its very possible to have temperature around 60C.

If the temperature is too hot for your liking, you can try taking the side panel off to induce more fresh air into the case (at the cost of increased noise), and/or do some clean up in your case (tie up cables, adjust front fan position, etc)to have maximum amount of airflow to your CPU cooler.

45 idle is pretty high for G0 stepping, have you tried other temp monitors? i havent heard of that one before... Coretemp, SpeedFan are the 2 i use.

Where are you in Aus im NSW Newcastle

Those are 45 Tjunctions. I'd say they are normal.

The problem seems to be that his PC case is causing some of the temperture problems, when he removed the side door his temp went down. You need a PC case with better airflow = Antec 900. @OP I think you getting confused with T-case temps (CPU outer surface) and Tjunction temps (core temps). Read this Core 2 Duo temperature guide here at Tom's forum,

Core 2 Quad and Duo Temperature Guide by CompuTronix
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/ [...] ture-guide

I recived the same numbers from speedfan taking into account the 15C ( ? ) offset.

Coretemp and Intel's TAT refuse to work under Vista.

I'm on the Vic/NSW border, albury region. So it has been quite warm.

I'm sticking with the P182 as one of the goals of the build was to keep nosie down. When cash permits, I'll get an intake fan.

I'm pretty sure they are the Tjunction temps, 4 numbers, 4 sensors.

The numbers ain't that bad (meltdown bad), but dissapointing concidering it's a Zalman 9500. Also, I want to to the slight OC but the numbers are just too high for me ATM.

I just built a system close to yours exept the motherboard, Asus p5e. I have the zallman, I removed the upper cage and installed a silverstone fan. Vista 64 is set to performance and I bumped up the fsb to 337 to get 3ghz. I was using the Asus program to monitor my temps and am getting vcore temp at 26c idle. With prime95 it would shoot up to 40c. After reading your thread i thought maybe there was somthing wrong with the asus moniter program so I downloaded the program that you use and got the same results exept your program shows the cpu temp as well as the vcore temp. core 0 34c core1 34c core2 30c core3 27c. at idle. I will download speedfan later as I just got this machine up and running. The 2 suggestions I have are put an extra fan where the top drive cage goes unless you have lots of hardrives (I got the silverstone as it pushes alot of air, little noisy though) and your vcore voltage seems a little low, mines 1.34v

My G0 in 333x9 tops out around 54 with absolute minimal fan speed, turning off all 7x120 mm fans it will reach 60C and hold, with core temp readings in the 50s, all fans going full bore will get benchmarking temps to hold at 50C all day long (70F in office). Idling core temp readings get into the low 20s without fans.

Intel's documentation states that as long as temps of a running processor stay at or below 65C, you should be fantastic with no ill effects. They plainly state that any temp above 65C cannot be warrantied. Storage temps can reach up to 85C without ill effects. Software kicks in at those temps anyways to skip cpu cycles and speedstep automatically saves your processor.

Enabling speedstep 333x9 will step down from 3GHz performance to 2GHz idle. i like those numbers.

El_Poochino, gypsie54, and rockbyter, as systemlord suggested, please read the Core 2 Quad and Duo Temperature Guide - http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/ [...] ture-guide

The Guide provides the information you need to learn how to properly test, calibrate, and monitor your temperatures, so that you'll be confident that they're correct.

Also, since there are 2 different types of thermal sensors operating at 2 separate temperatures, it's important to be specific when discussing temperatures, otherwise the topic becomes confused, and is simply reduced to nothing more than apples and oranges thermal fruit salad.


From the Guide:

Section 1: Introduction

Intel provides separate thermal specifications for 2 different sensor types; a single Case Thermal Diode located within the CPU die between the Cores, and Digital Thermal Sensors located within each Core. The Case Thermal Diode measures Tcase (Temperature Case), which is commonly known as CPU temp, and the Digital Thermal Sensors measure Tjunction (Temperature Junction), which is commonly known as Core temp. Since these sensors measure 2 distinct thermal levels, there is a constant temperature difference between them, which is referred to as Tcase to Junction Delta. C2Q`s have 1 Tcase and 4 Junction sensors, while C2D`s have 1 Tcase and 2 Junction sensors.


Section 4: Thermal Flow

Heat originates within the Cores, where Tjunction sensors are located within the hot spots of each Core. From the bottom of the Cores, heat dissipates throughout the CPU Case, which creates a thermal gradient toward the center of the Die, where the Tcase sensor is located. Heat then dissipates through the socket and motherboard to air inside the computer case. From the top of the Cores, heat dissipates through the Integrated Heat Spreader and CPU cooler to air inside the computer case. Safe and sustainable temperatures are determined by CPU cooling efficiency, computer case cooling efficiency, Ambient temperature, Vcore, clock speed, Stepping and Load. Tjunction is always higher than Tcase, and Tcase is always higher than Ambient.


El_Poochino, I have no desire to pop your bubble, however, the Zalman 9500 is a midrrange cooler, whereas the 9700 is a high-end cooler, and is much better suited for overclocking the Q6600, as are the Tuniq Tower or the Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme.


From the Guide:

Section 14: Recommendations

(A) For information on CPU Coolers, please refer to the following links:
http://www.anandtech.com/casecooli [...] i=3005&p=4
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2 [...] _and_212/6
http://www.frostytech.com/articlev [...] 045&page=4
http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=g [...] rticID=519

Also from the Guide:

Section 6: Scale

Scale 3: Quad
Q6x00: Tcase Max 71c, G0 Stepping, Tjunction Max 100c, Vcore Default 1.372, TDP 95w, Delta 10c

-Tcase/Tjunction-
--70--/--80--80--80--80-- Hot
--65--/--75--75--75--75-- Warm
--60--/--70--70--70--70-- Safe
--25--/--35--35--35--35-- Cool


Tcase (CPU temp) Idle and Load:

ITE IT87 hardware monitor

Temperature sensor 1 31°C (87°F) [0x1F] (TMPIN1)
Temperature sensor 1 53°C (127°F) [0x35] (TMPIN1)

Tjunction (Core temp) Idle and Load - Hottest Core:

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 hardware monitor

Temperature sensor 0 43°C (109°F) [0x39] (core #0)
Temperature sensor 0 65°C (148°F) [0x23] (core #0)


The following, again from the Guide, is an easier format to list your system's variables:

Section 1: Introduction

When listing Idle & Load test Results, it's also necessary to list the Variables as shown below:

Results

Tcase = Idle & Load
Tjunction = Idle & Load, hottest Core

Variables

Ambient = Room Temp
Chipset = Model
C2Q / C2D = Model
CPU Cooler = Model
Frequency = CPU Clock
Load = Test Program
Motherboard = Model
Stepping = Revision
Vcore = CPU Voltage


As all temperatures in the Guide are referenced to standard Ambient @ 22c, if your ambient is 25c (77F), then as you can see from the Scale, you still have headroom to overclock with your 9500.


Once more, from the Guide:

Section 12: Overclocking

Every CPU is unique in it's overclock potential, voltage tolerance, and thermal behavior. If the maximum stable overclock is known at 1.35 Vcore, then each increase of 0.05 volts will typically allow a stable increase of ~ 100 Mhz, and will result in a corresponding increase in CPU temperatures of 3 to 4c. Ambient and Vcore are the most dominant Variables affecting temperatures.

At 1.35 Vcore, ~ 300 Mhz of additional overclock remains until Safe Scale is exeeded due to increased Vcore. Example; at 22c Ambient, if a CPU is stable at 3.0 Ghz - 1.35 Vcore @ 100% Workload, then it may also be stable at 3.3 Ghz - 1.5 Vcore @ 100% Workload, with highly effective CPU cooling and computer case cooling.


I hope this helps to answer your questions,

Comp

Hmm, maybe I got a little swept up in all those users getting 25C idle temps.

I'll see if I can find out more about my ambient temps.

Also, anyone have experience getting a 9700, Tuniq Tower or Ultra 120 in a P182?

Thanks all for the help.

Again, I can't overemphasize how important it is to be specific when discussing temperatures. However, as many users fail to recognize the need to observe these details, the result is that undefined temperatures are flung around the Forums like so much gorilla poo, which only serves to confuse everyone.

Adjusted to standard ambient @ 22c, an Idle temp of 25c most definately refers to Tcase (CPU temp), and NOT Tjunction (Core temp). Since Tcase to Tjunction Delta is about 10c for G0 Stepping, this means that an Idle temperature of about 35c Tjunction (Core temp) is typical and expected. Of course, all temperatures vary with Vcore and Ambient.

The Zalman 9500 is 125mm high, while the Ultra 120 Extreme is 160.5mm high. Simply remove the side of your case, position a long straight edge on the side from front to rear, then measure the distance from the highest fins on the 9500 to the straight edge. If you have 40mm, then the Ultra 120 extreme will fit. The Ultra 120 Extreme is currently the undisputed best air cooler available.

I'd be running one myself, but I don't have room in my case for a 120mm fan class cooler. The ZeroTherm BTF90 you see in my sig is the best 92mm fan class cooler available, which is no more than adequate for overclocking the Q6600 to 3.6Ghz.

Comp

The CPNS9700 is great and will more than likely fit since your 9500 fits. It keeps my Q6600 OC'ed to 3GHz at 32c idle and 50c load. I love it since it has a fan speed controller so when I am web surfing or doing media stuff I can have it low and gaming or other extensive apps I turn it up.

Agreed but I can't wait to see the new Thermaltake BigTyphoon 14. It looks great. I want to see what it can do.

http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/0 [...] e_typhoon/

Only thing I would add to it is a blue LED fan for looks. The black one kinda looks bland.