building a pc - please help!

[poldie2]

I'm an occasional PC builder. This'll be my third in 10 years. I'm considering getting:

gigabyte ga-g33m-ds2r
2x2gb gigs of Crucial ram (667 or 800, not decided)
intel e6550 or e8200 with stock cooler
wd raptor hd via sata

I'm not planning to overclock, but I'm after the best `bang for the buck`. I'm going to be doing .net development/running sql server, plus the odd bit of surfing, emailling, playing music/video etc. I already have a monitor, mouse, keyboard, usb modem. So if anyone can help me out, I'd be very grateful. I'm interested especially in answers to the following:

1) The e8200 seems to be perpetually `out soon`. Will it be out soon?
2) Assuming I go for the e6550, is there any problem running it on this board, in terms of bios versions/multipliers etc? Can I run it at 2.33ghz?
3) What about ram? I've read about some limitations on ram speed configuration in the bios. Assuming I'm running the CPU at 2.33ghz, is there any point in getting the 800mhz ram, or would I have to configure it to run slower than that anyway so I might as well get the 667?
4) I want the fast HD drive because I've heard good things about it, and .net development seems to benefit from it. I'd use usb for mass storage (ie i have some old ide drives around which I've connect externally) although I might use the IDE for one large internal ide drive.
5) What sort of power PSU would I require for the above system. I'd probably never use any of the slots and power anything internally other than the 1 or 2 drives I just mentioned.

I'm in the UK, and it seems I can build the above system for around £450. Have I missed anything? Any better alternatives? I don't want to spend too much more money, but as this PC will be my main PC for the next 3-4 years I don't want to cut any corners.

Cheers.

 

[agentsmith957]

1) Yes it will be out soon. Just be patient... I wouldnt expect it to be more than a week or so since the E8400 has been on sale for about a week and a half now.

2) That would work fine, assuming you had the F3 bios version or newer. Thats a fairly old version so i would expect your version to ship with at least that.

3) As long as you arent overclocking, you will get the best performance out of a 1:1 FSBRAM ratio. This means the DDR2-667 ram with the lowest latency would be be your best choice, as long as its actually cheaper than the DDR2-800 ram with the same latencies. If you find a good deal on low latenct DDR2-800, you can always configure it to run at 667MHz.

4) Raptors are indeed fast, but the price per GB is pretty high. If you look at the Toms hard drive charts you can see some contenders for top hard drive performace that give you much more space per dollar. For example, the Samsung Spinpoint 1TB drive even beats the raptor in some tests.

5) You would be fine with a good 500W power supply, as long as you arent running any extremely intensive graphics card setups... looks like you have the integrated on that board, so if youre using that, no problem.

 

[poldie2]

1) How would that affect the ram speed? The E8200 is 2.66ghz - would you still suggest I go for the slower clocked ram? I'm not really a fan of waiting as you can do that forever (and my current system is failing, due to - bizarrely - burned power connector. It reboots randomly).

2) As long as I can get the system up and running to apply the bios fix!

Talking of which, I have no sata drives, and I'm going to install 64bit XP on a brand new one - I gather that IDE connectors don't work out of the box, and you have to install software to get them to work. Does this mean they only work from within an OS, and that you can't boot from them? I forgot to mention that I'll probably use IDE for my dvd/cd writer - how do I install the OS in that case? Would I have to get an ide-usb thing and boot from usb (if that's possible on this board) and install from a cd?

3) These are the details given to me by the Crucial site for this board:

4GB kit (2GBx2) £72.84 DDR2 PC2-5300 • CL=5 • Unbuffered • NON-ECC • DDR2-667 • 1.8V • 256Meg x 64
4GB kit (2GBx2) £89.29 DDR2 PC2-6400 • CL=6 • Unbuffered • NON-ECC • DDR2-800 • 1.8V • 256Meg x 64

You're sure I can get a 1:1 ratio on this board? I've read elsewhere that you can't, and that it won't be provided as it's not really considered a board for overclockers.

4) They're expensive, and I've noticed many references to poor lastability. Then again, I don't exactly think of quality when I think of Samsung, so I'd probably not jump out of the 10,000 rpm frying pan into the Samsung fire. I'd have to look around to convince myself that they can be trusted. I'd only use the fast drive for OS and dev stuff - data (pics, music, vids, backups) would live on the large, slow drive (even ide via usb).

5) 500w seems a lot, especially seeing as I'd be using practically nothing apart from the board and a hard drive and occasionally also an optical drive. Then again my current PSU is dying and it's 300w, driving a full ATX board with 2 HDs, a DVD drive, USB modem and a (passive) gfx card so perhaps I should learn my lesson. I've only ever gone with the PSU which come with the case. Where's a good place to get a PSU-less case, and can you confirm there'll be no problems putting case, third-party PSU and motherboard together without space problems?

Thanks for your help! Do I take it you like this motherboard?

 

[akhilles]

A simple way to find the right ram speed for the cpu is look at the Bus Speed in the cpu specs:

http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sspec=sla9x

1333 / 2 = 666.5

So any 667 ram will match perfectly, but if the 800 ram cost a bit more, get the 800mhz ram cuz it can be reused when the cpu & mobo are upgraded. Get this:

4GB kit (2GBx2) £89.29 DDR2 PC2-6400 • CL=6 • Unbuffered • NON-ECC • DDR2-800 • 1.8V • 256Meg x 64

As said above, lower latency/timing is faster than high one, but you wouldn't notice the difference with your naked eyes. Except when you benchmark the ram. So it's not worth the money to get ram with a little lower latency/timing unless you're a benchmarker or memory reviewer.

BTW, the bios must be set up correctly to make use of lower latency.

The safest bet would be to go with E6550 which is, as mentioned above, supported by F3 BIOS:

http://tw.giga-byte.com/Support/Motherboard/CPUSupport_Model.aspx?ProductID=2534

Intel Core™ 2 Duo E6550 2.33GHz 4MB Conroe 65nm G0 65W 1333 F3

No bios update hassle. Plug & play.

While I understand SQL is pretty disk-intensive, you won't see much of a difference if you're just queuing some data, unless you have very very large databases over gigabytes (hence, typical servers use SCSI for speed).

As for psu's:

the minimum recommended power supply is 300 W

http://download.intel.com/products/motherboard/DG33BU/tps.pdf

Assuming you're using the onboard video, 300W is fine. Do get a good one:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=108088

 

[poldie2]

Thanks for the help.

I was going to get the 800mhz memory, but I buy my memory from Crucial, as it's one of the few places who provide enough information about the ram before you buy it, and I've used them before and trust them, and they were all out of it, so I've gone for the 5300. I need this computer up and running asap, so couldn't hang around, and like you said it won't make a huge amount of difference. The faster ram was another £20.

I also decided to go for the Q6600 quad core CPU. This is a 1066 FSB. Is there going to be a problem using 667mhz ram with this? I don't think, from the limited info about what the various bios versions fix on the gigabyte site, that I'll need an update to run this chip.

I'm using onboard video, so the PSU which comes with the case I've ordered is 400w so it should be plenty.

 

[Onus]

PSUs which come with cases tend to be unstable crap, however you won't be putting any stress on it; with no additional graphics card I'm not sure you'll pull 150W. It might handle that ok. This PC sounds like it is for serious work though, so you might check out that tiered listing and choose another PSU from tier-3 or higher just to be safe.
I've got a -DS2R and it has been running well since my build. I have an e6750 on it, and 2GB of DDR2-800 running at 4-4-4-12.
You will not need to load any special drivers to run either IDE or SATA devices.

 

[poldie2]

Thanks.

But should I do:

board: 1066
cpu: 1066
ram: not sure. If I use 1:1 ratio then it'll be running at 533 mhz won't it? Is there an advantage to using some other ratio and getting it closer to 667?

 

[akhilles]

For 1066mhz FSB, use 533mhz ram. You can throw in 667mhz & it'll run at 533mhz, unless you changes the bios settings. It's better to get a slightly faster ram cuz it can be reused. If you get 533mhz ram, it'll be at that speed regardless of what new 45-nm cpu (1333mhz fsb) you throw at it.

Ram shouldn't be a big concern unless you overclock. The big concern should be the overall quality of the pc. PSU is an important part.

 

[evongugg]

Go with a good PSU. It can take your entire investment with it.

Top Tier PSU:

http://www.tomswiki.com/page/Tiered+PSU+Listings?t=anon

 

[poldie2]

For 1066mhz FSB, use 533mhz ram. You can throw in 667mhz & it'll run at 533mhz, unless you changes the bios settings. It's better to get a slightly faster ram cuz it can be reused. If you get 533mhz ram, it'll be at that speed regardless of what new 45-nm cpu (1333mhz fsb) you throw at it.

Ram shouldn't be a big concern unless you overclock. The big concern should be the overall quality of the pc. PSU is an important part.

I often buy stuff expecting to reuse components, but I never have, other than hard drives. When I next consider a new PC I'm sure there'll be purely DDR3 ram, dual octo-core CPUs, inexpensive SCSI drives, USB 3 etc !

I'm considering running the CPU at 1333 rather than 1066 so that it's in step with un-overclocked ram at 667. I've heard this board runs hot, and I don't want to stress the RAM (also, I don't want to run 667 ram at 533), but the CPU can probably take moderate overclocking, even if I have to get another cooler for it.

Is it worth getting a clip on heat sink for the ram (regardless of whether or not I overclock it)? Surely it's harmless, but is it pointless?

 

[akhilles]

I suppose you're right that your next upgrade would be ddr3 will should start taking over ddr2 later this year.

What clip? You mean the heatspreader? It's easier to handle w/o the risk of damaging the chips.

 

[amd_fanboi]

why bother with ram cooling if you're not going to OC?

 

[poldie2]

why bother with ram cooling if you're not going to OC?

I've heard the board runs hot, and ram is quite expensive. If the clip-on cooler doesn't cost much then what harm can it do?

 

[Onus]

RAM often comes with heat spreaders.
I have that board, and the chipset does run a little warm, but not too bad. I'm not using the integrated graphics. I have an e6750 on mine, running at 2.8GHz (instead of 2.66) in order to get a 1:1 ratio with my DDR-800 RAM. My case has decent airflow. I think my BIOS version is either F7 or F9; I've flashed it twice since getting it, so probably F9. From the BIOS setup screen, CTRL-F1 enables the advanced / manual options on the Intelligent Tweaker screen.