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How do I force a HDD to be slave without jumpers

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February 18, 2009 5:22:05 PM

Is it possible to turn a HDD into Slave by connecting one of the 44 pins to another with a little peace of wire. (I think it's pin nr. 28 and..?!)
There's no jumper pins or switch on my HDD for this, and it has to be Slave for my system to work.

I have seen a workaround picture of the solution I mentioned in the first line, but I just cant remember where and When.
a b G Storage
February 18, 2009 7:30:20 PM

IDE or SATA drive?
February 18, 2009 7:43:14 PM

Jim_L9 said:
IDE or SATA drive?

IDE (P-ATA) 2.5" (The dive is actually a SD/SDHC/MMC to IDE converter, (44pin IDE SDHC SSD), but it acts as a normal HDD.
It's supposed to have support for selecting between Cable Select, Primary Master and Slave, but t got no switch or pins for that.
I know there's a way around it, but I have been googeling for hours, and cant find it. :p 
Related resources
a b G Storage
February 18, 2009 9:18:49 PM

Run down to your local Radio Shack, PC repair, Frys, electronics shop, etc., spend 50 cents and and buy a package of them.
February 18, 2009 10:52:17 PM

jitpublisher said:
Run down to your local Radio Shack, PC repair, Frys, electronics shop, etc., spend 50 cents and and buy a package of them.

If you read carefully, you should have noticed that I'm NOT talking about where to get those tiny plastic jumpers.
If you're talking about some other product that would solve my problem, then I'm sorry for being so harsh. ..and it would be nice t know what you are telling me to buy.
February 19, 2009 12:04:13 AM

rabalder said:
IDE (P-ATA) 2.5" (The dive is actually a SD/SDHC/MMC to IDE converter, (44pin IDE SDHC SSD), but it acts as a normal HDD.
It's supposed to have support for selecting between Cable Select, Primary Master and Slave, but t got no switch or pins for that.
I know there's a way around it, but I have been googeling for hours, and cant find it. :p 


Buy a different adapter, all my 2.5" to 3.5" form factor cable adapter have Master/Slave jumpers on the adpater.
February 19, 2009 5:32:41 AM

Cable Select uses a special cable with special consideration for how pin 28 is connected at each of two HD connectors. One of the cable sockets will have pin 28 open and on the other socket, pin 28 will be connected through.

If a HD that is configured for Cable Select is connected to a cable socket that is open on pin 28 then that HD will be configured as a Slave drive.

Pin 28 should be carrying a ground up from the MB or adapter card for this to work. But you may need to test the cable to see if pin 28 is open on one of the HD sockets and "through" or not open on the other socket.

Here's a link to one of many references explaining Cable Select: http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/if/ide/confCS-c.html

Hope this helps.

c0ke
February 19, 2009 9:35:00 AM

Thanks.
But in my case it's not possible to force the HDD to be slave by the help of CSEL (pin/wire nr. 28).

When 28 is grounded, the device is master.
When 28 is removed/disconnected the device is CSEL (Cable Select)

So I need a third option to be able to set the drive to Slave. :p 

Thanks for all the help. ;) 
If anybody knows a way around this issue, then I'll be happy to know about it. ;) 


PS: My computer is a Portable. So there's no cables, not much room for any sort of adapters and theres no known way to make the CD-player become CSEL or Slave.
February 19, 2009 11:45:00 AM

Get a adapter for SATA or USB, problem solved.
February 19, 2009 1:44:50 PM

roadrunner197069 said:
Get a adapter for SATA or USB, problem solved.

My question in this thread is not about stuff to buy. I know about all kinds of stuff that can be bought to "solve" the problem. And I already have most of the things suggested in this thread available at home.
Problem solved is when I get this peace of hardware to function as Slave on my computer. ;) 

Anonymous
a b G Storage
February 19, 2009 8:57:05 PM

Set the drive to CSEL then attach it to the PATA cable connector in the MIDDLE of the ribbon. That will make it Slave (assuming you have a master in the top position). Of course without a master a slave makes no sense anyway...
February 20, 2009 7:05:04 AM

Quote:
Set the drive to CSEL then attach it to the PATA cable connector in the MIDDLE of the ribbon. That will make it Slave (assuming you have a master in the top position). Of course without a master a slave makes no sense anyway...

Quote:
PS: My computer is a Portable. So there's no cables, not much room for any sort of adapters and theres no known way to make the CD-player become CSEL or Slave.


:pfff:  This is getting annoying!
Why does so many people answer this thread when they don't care to read the previous posts?!

I don't believe there's a simple solution to this problem, so people don't answer unless you know a way around this problem.
a b G Storage
February 20, 2009 11:03:57 AM

rabalder said:
Quote:
PS: My computer is a Portable. So there's no cables, not much room for any sort of adapters and theres no known way to make the CD-player become CSEL or Slave.


:pfff:  This is getting annoying!
Why does so many people answer this thread when they don't care to read the previous posts?!

I don't believe there's a simple solution to this problem, so people don't answer unless you know a way around this problem.


I've been following this thread and I beleive that everyone who is replying is making an honest attempt solve your issue, but I also beleive that you are not explaining the circumstances very clearly. You have not listed any system specs other than saying your computer is portable. Does that mean it's a SFF LAN box? Or is it a mini tower? Or a laptop? Do you have any other IDE devices in the system aside from the one you are trying to make the slave? What steps have you taken to troubleshoot the issue? Do you have more than one IDE connector on the mobo? Did you provide the make/model of the device you are trying to make the Slave?

Not for nothing but if are trying to connect this SD/MMC adapter and a CD-ROM and to the same ribbon cable, the CD-ROM drive should be the Slave and the SD/MMC adapter, given that it is recognized as a standard hard drive, should be made the Master. Also, if you've got a standard CD-ROM that fits into a 5.25 bay, then unless it's some cheapo-booty-brand there has to be pin selectors to choose whether the ROM is Master, Slave, CableSelect; I have yet to see a CD-ROM that fits into a standard 5.25 bay that does not have that pin select.
February 21, 2009 8:38:12 AM

I know that most people here is doing an honest attempt solve my issue. So I'm grateful for that.
But in this case this is a difficult issue even for advanced computer technicians, so I definitely find standard answers to other simple and standard issues pretty annoying, when it's not relevant for this case. Sorry.
And I don't want this thread to turn into complicated social issues, with allot of meta-communication, about who said what and why, with which intentions.

If you read and understand my first 2 lines in the first post, the answer should be easy. Either you know the answer or you don't.

I will explain it, by putting "*" (Stars) into it, and then explain the stars:

"Is it possible to turn a HDD* into Slave** by connecting one of the 44 pins*** to another with a little peace of wire. (I think it's pin nr. 28 and..?!)
There's no jumper pins**** or switch***** on my HDD* for this, and it has to be Slave** for my system to work."

* HDD = Hard Disk Drive
** Slave is one of 2(3) main settings that can be used on a storage media on a standard computer. This setting is basically available so that you can choose which media comes first in boot order.
*** a HDD with 44 pins is basically a standard 2.5" IDE(ATA/P-ATAT) hard drive. (A standard 3.5" hard drive got 40 pins and an extra connector for power. So the 44 pins on a 2.5" drive = 40 pins + power connector on a 3.5" drive).
**** Jumper pins in this case is the small pins that is used for attaching/connecting small jumpers. The jumpers position connects to pins, and then decide things like if the hard drive is going to be set to CSEL, Slave or Master.
***** Some hard drives and systems got a normal switch or a dip-switch, that can be used in stead of jumpers on pins.

In my first post I forgot question mark in the end of the first line. Sorry.

- The question is:
Is it possible to turn a HDD into Slave by connecting 2 pins of the 44 pins together, with a little peace of wire?
- My question is only about the 44 pins on a HDD!
- To know the answer to this question, you don't need to know anything about my system, my dog, kids, sex, etc.


Could we please make this simple?!



So far I have figured out this:
Theres probably no answer to my original question, because pin 28 is only telling if the drive is Master or Cable Select.
In my portable computer (Laptop) there's no cables only a connector for the HDD and one for the CD-rom (slim).
According to my computer manual the CD-rom has to be Master. And to avoid conflict between the 2 drives the HDD have to be Slave.
And by manipulating pin 28 it's not possible to turn the HDD into Slave.


So this problem is solved! The solution = there's no solution!

Thanks to everybody for your help and support. :hello: 
February 21, 2009 5:26:33 PM

Wow are you annoying!
a b G Storage
February 26, 2009 11:37:28 AM

I was trying to get through this thread without saying anything bad about this guy, because he really, really annoyed me as well, I am glad you chimed in and said it.
He is not only rude, I'll add he is a complete idiot.
April 25, 2009 5:02:43 AM

He's not an idiot. He has a valid question. I am struggling with a very similar issue.

I think the answer is this: The setting of pin 28 is in fact the critical issue. If any drive sees a ground on pin 28 the drive sets itself as the master.

If any drive sees an un-grounded pin 28 it sets itself as the slave.

HOWEVER. This can be overridden by jumpering the drive as master or slave IF THE DRIVE HAS JUMPERS !!!!!!!!!

If the drive has NO JUMPERS one could possibly assume that it is permanently configured as cable select, and therefore looks at pin 28 for guidance. (note I said "possibly" assume).

There is a popular assumption that cable select only works when you have a cable with two connectors, and each drive has to be on the correct connector. In fact it is not the connector position that is critical, the only thing that is important (usually) is what is being done with pin 28 on each connector. (Or what is being done with pin 28 on that particular 44 pin connector off the motherboard).

I think that it may be possible to set the HDD as slave by disconnecting pin 28 (which is probably grounded at present...forcing the HDD to assume master status).

At one time I have also seen a setting in a Toshiba Laptop BIOS that was asking about how to set the functioning of the second IDE bus. I dont remember clearly what it was for, but I suspect it is possible that some laptops may have BIOS settings that only permit one device on a bus (forcing either a master or slave status), or that on a dual device bus they may have settings that force each device to be either master or slave, and there is no hardware change available to override the BIOS. (perhaps a bios setting could alter the staus of pin 28 via software??).

Good Luck Rabalder, and don't let the geniuses get you down. There IS an answer to every question.
a b G Storage
April 25, 2009 10:43:55 AM

For what it's worth...
Pin 28 on an IDE device is used to tell the drive if it's master/slave WHEN cable select is used (if pin 28 is connected the drive is a MASTER, if pin 28 is left floating the drive is a SLAVE); if the drive otherwise jumpered (MASTER/SLAVE) pin 28 is ignored.

For a normal IDE cable, the connectors are different colours because the grey [slave] connector has had pin 28 removed.

To turn a device into a slave, it must not be jumpered to master/slave (so it looks at pin 28) and pin 28 must be left floating/disconnected.
April 25, 2009 9:15:00 PM

MrLinux said:
For what it's worth...
Pin 28 on an IDE device is used to tell the drive if it's master/slave WHEN cable select is used (if pin 28 is connected the drive is a MASTER, if pin 28 is left floating the drive is a SLAVE); if the drive otherwise jumpered (MASTER/SLAVE) pin 28 is ignored.

For a normal IDE cable, the connectors are different colours because the grey [slave] connector has had pin 28 removed.

To turn a device into a slave, it must not be jumpered to master/slave (so it looks at pin 28) and pin 28 must be left floating/disconnected.


Thanks Mr Linux.

Normally the way Pin 28 is "removed" on a desktop cable is by cutting a wire on the cable (I've never seen a 2-device notebook cable, but must assume that if they exist they'll have the same feature). Of course, that only works with the wire is cut between the first and second drive, to make the second drive slave.

I believe the original problem was that the guy wanted to make the first drive slave. If pin 28 on the cable is NOT cut, he could break a pin off the drive or try to remove the metal from the connector. But I've never seen a modern 2-device cable that didn't have Pin 28 cut between the first and second drive.

Custom cable mabye? And a modified connector? Personally, I'd be trying to figure out a way to reverse the order of the drives on the cable, to put the master in the middle and the slave on the end. If the hardware isn't in that order and the cable's not long enough, I'd look for a longer cable.

My preference to look for a longer cable, rather than mess with Pin 28, was the major reason I was not attempting to be more helpful. The guy appears to have his mind set about the way the cable must be run, and if it's counter to available hardware, I'm not going to be responsible for any damage incurred during the modification process.
a b G Storage
April 26, 2009 6:42:17 AM

From what I have seen they don't cut the cable, they just remove pin 28 from the slave socket (or to be more accurate, the connector manufacturers remove the connector) hence the colour differance, the master (at the end of the cable) still requires the connection for things to work.

From looking at a laptop hard drive(s) I have here, there are jumper settings for "Device 0", "Device 1" and "Cable Select", the default (no jumpers) is "Device 0"; my guess from this is that all laptop drives are "assumed" to be connected to their own controller and "Device 0" is a Master; this would also mean that a laptop device would have to be jumpered for cable select to work...

This is starting to annoy me, there *must* be a simple solution...
May 15, 2009 7:06:23 AM

what is the point of making this hd into a slave anyways.. did you get a new hd to replace the old one and now ur trying to backup old data or what?

people are getting pissed off.. LOL
May 19, 2009 4:26:54 AM

OP is probably long gone by now but there is a chance your project is still possible.
I believe I have the true answer for those reading this in a similar situation.
In order for an IDE device to function as a slave using C.Sel (pin 28) there must be present on the same IDE channel a master device with IDE (Integrated Drive Electronics) capable of serving as master to its slave device. Not merely a jumper. Except in rare circumstances CD/DVD drives do not have the ability to serve as master to a hard drive. They simply do not contain the required electronics inside to do so. Hard drives do. Your adapter device might.
Explanation for dummys.
When serving as master, the master device is basicly substituting a part of its 'brain' for the slave's 'brain'. Hard drives are smarter than CD/DVD drives. CD/DVD drives are smart enough to be a master of themselves and/or another CD/DVD drive but not master of a hard drive. Possibly because CD/DVD drives are read only devices and hard drives are read/write.

For the original poster, you are really asking the wrong question. Your HD / SD adapter device will be in slave mode with pin 28 disconnected as already discussed. The real problem is that while your CD drive is fine as master of itself, it is not 'smart' enough to be master of your adapter device. And since you have a hard connector it is difficult to make it a slave.

A CD R/W or DVD R/W drive has a better chance of functioning as master to your device but it is not required to do so by specification. So if you are willing to try to upgrade your CD, try it as long as you are able to return it if it doesn't work.

More likely to work but with greater danger of damaging a working system is to set the adapter device to master by connecting its pin 28 and removing pin 28 from the CD drive. Do this by clipping the pin out of the drive, or the connector, or cutting the corresponding trace in either drive or computer.

Possible bummer if the connector you are using for the adapter does not carry the pin 28 conductor through to the IDE controller on the computer.

Good Luck
slomobile
August 29, 2009 4:46:16 PM

Has anyone tried to "trace" a normal HDD's circuit board to see how Master and Slave works?
!