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which is better? please help

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February 2, 2008 8:25:45 PM

i had my heart set on building the system from the TH guide on the E2140, and just a few days ago, started buying the parts (none of them have arrived yet)

Intel E2160
MSI P35 Neo2-FR
2x1gb Geil Black Dragon DDR II ram
512mb GECUBE Radeon HD 3870 O.C EditionI
250GB Seagate HDD
Antec Sonata III
Widescreen 21.6" TFT @ 1680x1050

of these, i got the ram, mobo, cpu, and gfx card...

and now, i just found that pc, available at a place i've never heard of before, for less than i was going to pay... pcoption... (http://www.pcoption.co.uk/pcpackages/index5d_8800slip4d...)

Gamers PC. Nvidia 8800. Core Duo. (E2140 Core Duo 1.6GHz , Case 1 - Antec 900 Black 750Watt , No PSU Upgrade ( Standard 750 Watt. Unless You Have Upgraded Your Case) , 1 X Nvidia GForce EN8800GT 512MB Graphics , 80GB Hard Drive , 2GB DDR 2 800 MHz , Vista Premium & Disc , 17 " Haans G Widescreen HW173D 8M/S Response, Msi P945P Neo5 Motherboard (Ingore this if you have selected sli graphics upgrade)

all that will go for £601.66

so, should i take the plunge and send my items back and get this system, or stick with my current build???? ps, i am not going to need vast amounts of HDD space...





More about : question

February 2, 2008 8:37:53 PM

Usually manufactured computers of any kind have some spec they don't want you to know about, whether its a crappy PSU, a bottleneck MOBO, or whatever. If you live in Europe tiger direct has good deals, I always use newegg but they are American only (maybe Canada) haven't kept up with where they sell.
February 2, 2008 9:02:38 PM

were you planning to OC the E21xx? if so, then the prebuilt might have BIOS limitations (no OCing) how much money was your original system?
Related resources
February 2, 2008 9:08:38 PM

i live in the uk...

i was planning to take that E2160 to 3ghz... and the price was the same... gosh, i love the antec 900 case...
February 2, 2008 9:53:31 PM

NEVER BUY FROM NO NAME PLACES!!!!!! please follow my motto: el'cheapo parts/ unknown retailer = Crappy computer and wasted money!!

Build your own. It's the best way.
February 2, 2008 9:57:19 PM

you still think so? i'll follow your advice - i don't feel completely settled with the idea of buying it, tbth... one more thing then...

can anyone recommend me a case with good airflow? and a good PSU whcich can allow me to crossfire later? for not much more than the 72 of the antec sonata III? atm, i'm thinking coolermaster 534, and a PSU... prolly a Hiper...

actually, how much power do i need to CF 2x HD3870s?
February 2, 2008 10:13:46 PM

What the hell are you going to crosfire 2 of those for ?!?!?!?! :pt1cable: 

Unless you are trying to drive a 60inch LCD you won't need to.

But to answer your question 1k powersupply should just be about right.

:bounce:  Here is my recomendation for Case and powersupply.... I use it in all my Builds, even the budjet gamer ones:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119136

Remember to buy from a repudable dealer and don't go cheap and we may never hear from you on the fourms again (we hope ;)  )

:sol: 
February 2, 2008 10:26:05 PM

Is that a typo or does that system come with a mere 17" monitor? Trust me you don't want a 17" monitor.

One more thought about a pre-built system is it's more of a PITA to deal with them if there is a problem and not a full retail warranty on many parts.

You do not need a 1KW PSU, that's just misinformation. You should get a larger HDD than 80GB even if you didn't need the space because those old low density plattered drives are quite a bit slower than a modern one, obviously with that video card you will be gaming and loading game files will take much longer with a small older gen. 80GB.

It's annoying you didn't even list the price of the first build, so we have nothing to compare to. Since this is almost like complaining I should just stop this post to be polite. Goodbye and good luck.
February 2, 2008 10:37:40 PM

Quote:
You do not need a 1KW PSU, that's just misinformation.



You sir are full of misinformation, because you need to read his question more throughly, laddie! :non: 

he asked about the power requirments for Crossfire 3870"s- and I answered correctly: 1K minimum
February 2, 2008 10:48:53 PM

A larger hard drive is in order though...

I have never has any problems with Seagate.
February 3, 2008 3:01:35 AM

SpudTECH said:
Quote:
You do not need a 1KW PSU, that's just misinformation.



You sir are full of misinformation, because you need to read his question more throughly, laddie! :non: 

he asked about the power requirments for Crossfire 3870"s- and I answered correctly: 1K minimum


I think you just read some overgeneralized spec, which has nothing to do with reality.

Similarly all kinds of nonsense gets spread about lofty requirements for lesser video cards, sometimes we have to assume they just pull the number out of thin air or assume it somehow translates into a 30%+ derating because they assume someone will buy overrated generic junk.

No system with any crossfired or SLI'd video card needs a 1KW PSU. Dare to see specs of systems running these configs w/o issue. Google is your friend.
February 3, 2008 5:46:51 AM

I contest you "I" what if he was running 6 SATA Drives, with an addition 2 Optical drives, and ...... a microwave.
February 3, 2008 7:46:37 PM

1 ****** kilowatt??? for 2x HD3870s??? what the hell??? damn, that sucks... oh, and the original price was +/- £610
February 3, 2008 8:10:20 PM

Those are not the same motherboards , the prebuilt one is a 945 chipset, several generations behind the P35.
February 5, 2008 2:24:28 PM

The hd3870x2 draws 370-390 watts ( i can't find the spec but it's here on toms hardware in their review of the card.... )if you crossfire the two(when they make drivers for it) that's almost 800 watts! Then you have a dvd drive to run and all your fans in your case, and the hard-drive.... so like I said 1K minimum!!!!
February 6, 2008 7:54:03 AM

i think i am being misunderstood... i do not want to crossfire the dual-gpu 3870X2 ; i want to put two HD3870s in... how much power would i need for that? and an oced E2160
February 6, 2008 8:13:46 AM

SpudTECH said:
The hd3870x2 draws 370-390 watts ( i can't find the spec but it's here on toms hardware in their review of the card.... )if you crossfire the two(when they make drivers for it) that's almost 800 watts! Then you have a dvd drive to run and all your fans in your case, and the hard-drive.... so like I said 1K minimum!!!!
I think if you look again you will find that's the total system load not the card alone.

R680 Has Landed: ATI Radeon HD 3870 X2 - HotHardware
February 6, 2008 8:18:02 AM

ok, but what would be the total system load for two hd3870s? i'm trying to figure out if i can get away with buying the Antec Sonata III...
February 6, 2008 8:54:33 AM

amd_fanboi said:
ok, but what would be the total system load for two hd3870s? i'm trying to figure out if i can get away with buying the Antec Sonata III...
Two 3870's in crossfire draw 48-193W by themselves so you need to add the additional draw of the rest of the system. I used the eXtreme Power Supply Calculator Lite v2.5 and added a DVD burner and three 120MM fans with a Vcore of 1.4 and 3G OC. all loads at 100% and came up with a recommended PSU size of 404Watts. Understand you need to be concerned about current (amps) draw more than wattage. With a quick calculation the two cards will draw about 16A by themselves. The PSU in the Sonata III should be the Antec EarthWatts EA-500 500W. That link is a review by jonnyguru. It has a single rail not the dual rails that they claim. It also has a max of 34A on the 12V "single rail" so it will power two 3870s. It's made by Seasonic and jonnyguru gives it a 9 out of 10.

Edit: I just found some backup for my conclusion.

HIS Radeon HD3870 Review & Crossfire Performance Preview - Page 10
Quote:
If you are using this card in a non-overclocked dual core system, I would not hesitate recommending you use a GOOD 450-500W power supply.
Edit:Looking at that review again the power specs appear to be for one card, which is kind of stupid since it is supposedly a CF review. But the previous calculations are still correct.
February 6, 2008 9:03:45 AM

so will i be able to go for it without blowing my system??? cos i'm planning to OC the 2160 to like 3ghz...

i came up with 435W... w 2 cards, 1 pci card (maybe a modem or something), one USB device, the DVD and sata HDD, and 2x120 mm fans, w/ fan controller, and card reader

all at full load
February 6, 2008 9:43:13 AM

amd_fanboi said:
so will i be able to go for it without blowing my system??? cos i'm planning to OC the 2160 to like 3ghz...

i came up with 435W... w 2 cards, 1 pci card (maybe a modem or something), one USB device, the DVD and sata HDD, and 2x120 mm fans, w/ fan controller, and card reader

all at full load
Well that's what happens when you don't give complete information and expect to get accurate answers. How's that go, garbage in garbage out? I even OCed your CPU for you. I added the extra devices and came up with 425W. Understand, that is recommended PSU not total wattage draw. You don't have a lot of headroom, but with a single rail you should be OK. Those numbers are everything at 100% and your not going to be at 100% most of the time. It is a little higher on the load percentage than I would like, but it should still work. This is my preference - Silencer® 610 EPS12V Power Supply.


ATI Radeon HD 3800 Series - System Requirements

ATI is calling for 550Watt but I think they are protecting themselves against the Cooler Master, Rosewill, etc. PSUs. And additionally not taking the single rail into consideration. The single rail makes a huge difference.
Quote:
450 Watt or greater power supply with 75 Watt 6-pin PCI Express® power connector recommended (550 Watt and two 6-pin connectors for dual ATI CrossFireX)
Read the link to the review of the Earthwatts that I posted above and decide for yourself. If I was short on cash I would go for it, although that Silencer 610 is a sweet PSU.
February 6, 2008 9:49:24 AM

reread the thread. i did say i want to OC the CPU to 3 ghz, and i also said that i want two 3870s, twice... nevertheless, that PSU is too expensive; i don't have enough of a budget to pay for a £70PSU... tbth, i think it'd be better to get the Antec... cash wise, that is...
February 6, 2008 10:03:22 AM

I wasn't talking about the OC, I was talking about fans, extra PCI card, USB and Front bay fan controller. When you are asking whether a marginal PSU will power your setup you need to include all of the components that are going to draw power or you will get erroneous answers. Notwithstanding any of that, I believe you will be fine. I have given you all of the data and my opinion, but I will say again, read the review on jonnyguru. You are ultimately charged with deciding what you want to do.
February 6, 2008 10:08:09 AM

Antec Sonata III, then... thanks for the advice :) .
February 6, 2008 10:17:13 AM

Glad to help.
February 6, 2008 12:06:06 PM

I think this is a better choice:

Antec 900 Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
-
CORSAIR CMPSU-620HX ATX12V EPS12V 2.91 620W Power Supply
February 6, 2008 12:07:29 PM

Also you may want to look into a heatsink and a optical drive.
February 6, 2008 12:20:05 PM

mlaporta said:
I think this is a better choice:

Antec 900 Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
-
CORSAIR CMPSU-620HX ATX12V EPS12V 2.91 620W Power Supply
Absolutely. Let me direct you to this comment.
amd_fanboi said:
i don't have enough of a budget to pay for a £70PSU... tbth, i think it'd be better to get the Antec... cash wise, that is...
What makes you think he has the budget for your equipment suggestion?
February 6, 2008 12:36:20 PM

Well I ordered the Antec 900 on buy.com for $66 delivered with rebates and the PSU is $105 delivered on buy.com so is $175 for Case & PSU out of his budget that will fit all his present or future needs.
February 6, 2008 12:40:38 PM

I looked at the Antec Sonata III which is $120 delivered so I guess is $60 - $70 dollars more worth it, maybe not based on budget or usage at this time.
February 6, 2008 7:54:04 PM

And I think, based on previous posts, that he is in the UK so pricing and availability is completely different.

Good deals on those parts.
February 7, 2008 10:07:18 AM

lol... yeah UK... i would get the antec 900 if i could, but i can't... as for that PSU, it's too expensive... i decided, the Antec Sonata III will be a pretty good option...

heatsink = arctic cooling freezer 7 pro, and optical drive is some random LG one with bezels and nero...
February 7, 2008 4:40:52 PM

Still all-in-all good selections on the items you have assembled.
February 7, 2008 5:56:29 PM

nice to know that ^^. now for an ultra-noby question... where do i get the screws, etc, i'll need... will they come with the case? or do i have to buy them from the store??? and what kind of screws am i looking to get??? (dis is my first build, so...)
February 7, 2008 6:36:28 PM

The Screws come with the case and the some if not all motherboards bring screws and for that matter all components bring screws the

Antec Sonata III (which I own) Brings a lot of good screws especially for the HD's since they sit on a removable slide
February 7, 2008 6:41:21 PM

The case should have a full complement of screws, including the brass mobo standoffs (make sure you use them!).

Zorg, thanks for clearing away the hot air and FUD.
February 7, 2008 7:06:47 PM

ehmm... cool... thanks for all the help :) . i would have bought a set in the shops yesterday :p . have you had any problems with the feet breaking off and such? also, how would you rate the cooling?
!