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9800GX2 vs 3870X2

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February 12, 2008 1:02:33 AM

Both cards are valued at around $450 and the 3870X2 is just 2 3870's and the 9800GX2 is 2 8800gts(512)

Since the (G92) GTS's are faster than the 3870s then the 9800GX2 should be faster and a better deal right?



Just a side note does the 9800GX2 support Tri or Quad SLI?

(I haven't been on the fourms in a few weeks so sorry if this topic has already appeared like 10 times)

More about : 9800gx2 3870x2

February 12, 2008 1:12:52 AM

Ahh was there a point in making a new thread when theres a bunch out there? anyways, no the 9800GX2 is not going to be valued around 450, more like $600.
We don't know if its going to support Quad SLI because its so big and hot. It may not be a better deal, depending on how well Nvidia optimizes the drivers. So far Nvidia has delayed the launch indicating that they have some problems.
February 12, 2008 1:15:01 AM

the 9800GX2 is not out yet, we will have to wait and see how it performs. The 9800GX2 is different though since it uses dual PCB's. No words on quad sli, but it will likely be a reality. But we all know that nvidia is really crappy with drivers.

In terms of performance, an 8800 GT is superior to a 3870, but crossfire scales better than SLI. So don't expect the gap to be too big. It will indeed be better than Crossfire, but if you take a look at the benchies in games that can handle crossfire/SLI effectively, the 3870x2 would pretty much have nearly double the frames, a 100% increase of a single 3870..Meanwhile, under sli, you'd see the frames sitting around 75% higher than a single 8800 GT.
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February 12, 2008 1:16:26 AM

But about the price, I remember Tom's hardware said it was going to cost around $450
February 12, 2008 3:44:59 AM

Yeah... most artcles including toms were speculating a $450 price range. Thats the only way it will be competitive with the 3870
a b U Graphics card
February 12, 2008 4:16:04 AM

When it gets released, we'll know how much it's valued at.
February 12, 2008 5:14:25 AM

randomizer said:
When it gets released, we'll know how much it's valued at.


exactly!!! :ange: 
February 12, 2008 5:36:12 AM

i want to see a new line up from Nvidia (9 series) and something that can beat the 8800gtx from Ati so that Nvidia will start to make better cards instead of going the gx2 route.
February 12, 2008 6:08:04 AM

If it is just two 8800GT's it will perform about the same as the 3870X2. The 3870 Cf can really hold it's own against the 8800GT. It's also going to be on a dual PCB and probably a smoking hot. If they price it around the 3870X2, it'll be pretty competitive, but if they go higher, I don't think it'll be worthwhile. Sort of like the 1950XTX vs the 7950GX2.

The 1950XTX was a single card and it performed pretty close to the 7950GX2 for a lot less money/heat and driver issues. The 3870X2 on the other hand is a dual GPU card but it performs as good as the 8800Ultra but for a lot less. That's why I can't understand people comparing the 3870X2 to the 7950GX2
February 12, 2008 6:19:00 AM

teh_boxzor said:
i want to see a new line up from Nvidia (9 series) and something that can beat the 8800gtx from Ati so that Nvidia will start to make better cards instead of going the gx2 route.

I have not seen anything from the 9 series or AIT 3800s worth reading about (except maybe the 9600GTS)
I guess the 9800X2 will be about 20% faster than the 8800GTS 512 at best. (based on how the 3800 X2 is doing and the 3800 scales well from what I read)
Just another day waiting for the g100/r770
Bottom line. There still is no serious 8800GTX killer.
February 12, 2008 8:39:54 AM

yes Tom's hardware said it was going to cost around $450 but if it performs alot better then the 3870 X2 nvidia will raize there price for sure.

im not sure what kind of performance to expect from the 9800X2 but would'd be surprised if it will cost 499 not to mention the price premium that is added after it is first released:( 
February 12, 2008 9:53:14 AM

$450 is a complete dream price for the 8800/9800GX2 (whatever they call it and IMO).
Nvidia always price strongly (although over the past year, they've had the justification to...) so I can't see the new dual PCB coming in at anything less than $550/600.
The 3870X2 is priced more competitively than the 8800GTX (let alone the Ultra) over here in the UK, so I can't imagine the new card coming in below Ultra prices.
Personally I think ATi have really pulled something out of the hat with the 3870X2 and I reckon they gave Nvidia a little bit of a shock. I am getting tempted to change my GTX for either a 3870X2 or 2 and cant really see any chance of me bothering with the next nvidia card. :) 
February 12, 2008 10:53:22 AM

If I had a GTX right now I would definitely be waiting to see what happens later this year.

As it was though I had (until recently) an X1950PRO.
My lovely new Sapphire HD3870X2 blows it not just clean out of the water but pretty much into orbit :) 
February 12, 2008 11:36:50 AM

IndigoMoss said:
If it is just two 8800GT's it will perform about the same as the 3870X2. The 3870 Cf can really hold it's own against the 8800GT. It's also going to be on a dual PCB and probably a smoking hot. If they price it around the 3870X2, it'll be pretty competitive, but if they go higher, I don't think it'll be worthwhile. Sort of like the 1950XTX vs the 7950GX2.

The 1950XTX was a single card and it performed pretty close to the 7950GX2 for a lot less money/heat and driver issues. The 3870X2 on the other hand is a dual GPU card but it performs as good as the 8800Ultra but for a lot less. That's why I can't understand people comparing the 3870X2 to the 7950GX2


Every review Ive read comparing the 38070X2 to 8800GT in SLI shows the 3870X2 getting smoked in most games at most resolutions. Now Im not saying the 3870X2 isnt a good card, it is the fastest single card available right now, but I dont see how you can say that "If it is just two 8800GT's it will perform about the same as the 3870X2." Thats jut a flat out lie. Please provide some proof to back up your claim.

As an example, heres a review I read just this morning showing the 3870X2 getting smoked by 2 8800GTs in SLI.
http://www.elitebastards.com/cms/index.php?option=com_c...
February 12, 2008 11:55:28 AM

blackened144 said:
Every review Ive read comparing the 38070X2 to 8800GT in SLI shows the 3870X2 getting smoked in most games at most resolutions. Now Im not saying the 3870X2 isnt a good card, it is the fastest single card available right now, but I dont see how you can say that "If it is just two 8800GT's it will perform about the same as the 3870X2." Thats jut a flat out lie. Please provide some proof to back up your claim.

As an example, heres a review I read just this morning showing the 3870X2 getting smoked by 2 8800GTs in SLI.
http://www.elitebastards.com/cms/index.php?option=com_c...


Alright, my bad. I thought for sure that 2 3870's in CF performed the same as two 8800GT's in SLI. I guess Crossfire's scaling only goes so far, thanks for correcting me.
February 12, 2008 12:00:06 PM

IndigoMoss said:
Alright, my bad. I thought for sure that 2 3870's in CF performed the same as two 8800GT's in SLI. I guess Crossfire's scaling only goes so far, thanks for correcting me.


CF Scales better than SLI, but the 8800 GT just has more horsepower to begin with.
February 12, 2008 12:05:32 PM

blackened144 said:
Every review Ive read comparing the 38070X2 to 8800GT in SLI shows the 3870X2 getting smoked in most games at most resolutions. Now Im not saying the 3870X2 isnt a good card, it is the fastest single card available right now, but I dont see how you can say that "If it is just two 8800GT's it will perform about the same as the 3870X2." Thats jut a flat out lie. Please provide some proof to back up your claim.

As an example, heres a review I read just this morning showing the 3870X2 getting smoked by 2 8800GTs in SLI.
http://www.elitebastards.com/cms/index.php?option=com_c...


Smoked? Looks like they're trading blows from the benchmarks in the link you posted. The GTs win in some conditions, the X2 wins in others.
February 12, 2008 12:08:15 PM

All I want to know, is what the hell is up with Call of Duty 4 in the benchmark? Seriously, wtf?
February 12, 2008 12:13:49 PM

IndigoMoss said:
All I want to know, is what the hell is up with Call of Duty 4 in the benchmark? Seriously, wtf?


The X2 is slower than the single 3870 so it looks like a driver issue to me.
It'd be interesting to see what happens to these benchmarks with future driver releases (from both camps).
February 12, 2008 12:18:45 PM

IndigoMoss said:
Alright, my bad. I thought for sure that 2 3870's in CF performed the same as two 8800GT's in SLI. I guess Crossfire's scaling only goes so far, thanks for correcting me.


No worries man. The point that I meant to make the first time I posted, that I apparently forgot to make, was simply that if the power is truly equal to 2 8800GTs in SLI, than the GX2 will be a serious contender and most likely take back the crown ATI is currently holding for the fastest single card available. And if they can keep it in the suggested retail price range, it will be a definite winner in the market.

Im trying to remember off the top of my head from previous posts, but if I remember correctly, the GX2 wont actually be 2 8800GTs. I think they were using the g92 core, but it would be underclocked and maybe missing some SP units? If that is indeed the case then I think it would be too close to call until the card is actually released and benched.
Either way though, as long as each company is innovating and releasing cards with more and more power for less and less money, then Im happy. I thought my AGP 6800GT was a good deal at $399 when it was released(Man, I miss living with the rents), but my 8800GT just over $250 the day after it came out, was the real deal.
February 12, 2008 12:22:52 PM

blackened144 said:
No worries man. The point that I meant to make the first time I posted, that I apparently forgot to make, was simply that if the power is truly equal to 2 8800GTs in SLI, than the GX2 will be a serious contender and most likely take back the crown ATI is currently holding for the fastest single card available. And if they can keep it in the suggested retail price range, it will be a definite winner in the market.

Im trying to remember off the top of my head from previous posts, but if I remember correctly, the GX2 wont actually be 2 8800GTs. I think they were using the g92 core, but it would be underclocked and maybe missing some SP units? If that is indeed the case then I think it would be too close to call until the card is actually released and benched.
Either way though, as long as each company is innovating and releasing cards with more and more power for less and less money, then Im happy. I thought my AGP 6800GT was a good deal at $399 when it was released(Man, I miss living with the rents), but my 8800GT just over $250 the day after it came out, was the real deal.


If memory serves it was 2 G92s with all 128 SPs, 16 ROPs per card, 1 GB DDR3 RAM at 1800 MHz.. and the core was something like 550 MHz.

The way the card is being built it's gong to be rediculously hot.
February 12, 2008 12:54:46 PM

I have used geforce since my not so good 5700LE, but if I'd buy a new graphics-card today, it would be the 3870x2. :-)
February 12, 2008 1:05:30 PM

thomaseron said:
I have used geforce since my not so good 5700LE, but if I'd buy a new graphics-card today, it would be the 3870x2. :-)


Eww FX series.
February 12, 2008 1:11:10 PM

cynewulf said:
Smoked? Looks like they're trading blows from the benchmarks in the link you posted. The GTs win in some conditions, the X2 wins in others.



I had a long reply in the works comparing the results of the benchmarks I posted. I only got about 6 games into it, but the X2 card only won about 3-4 benchmarks at certain resolutions and settings and won them by about 5%. In those same 6 games the SLI won about 15 benchmarks at certain resolutions and settings and averaged winning by about 20% (5%-100% depending on the game and res). Unfortunately I had to step away in the middle and when I came back, like the schmuck I am, I accidentally closed the window with my post.. But if you look at a majority of the results, I may agree that they *sometimes* trade blows meaning that when the X2 wins it barely wins.. When the SLI wins, which happens more often than not, it wins by a very large margin, in one case over 200% faster than the X2. Typically though, using my "Everyday Math" skills, the SLI wins by about 20% (Serious guesstimate after glancing over all the results again).
a b U Graphics card
February 12, 2008 2:50:26 PM

I don't know why you guys are all excited, obviously in the battle of the unreleased hardware, the intel GMA X4500HD is going to kick both of their A$$es !!

Oh yeah, And it'll support time travel too, which is why I can tell you this about unreleased hardware! :sol: 
a b U Graphics card
February 12, 2008 3:10:22 PM

cynewulf said:
Smoked? Looks like they're trading blows from the benchmarks in the link you posted. The GTs win in some conditions, the X2 wins in others.

Only legitimate victory for the X2 I see is UT3 where they didn't use fsaa and ran a flyby. I'd have to see real world benchies to declare a winner for UT3. Otherwise Crysis gpu benchmark at 26x12 and unplayable performance means nothing. And HL2 ep 2 without fsaa is also worthless. Who would play HL2 without fsaa on a higher end rig? Whay even test it in this case apart from just bing thorough. sheehs, nobody should run HL2 without fsaa IMO unless they have issues or a budget card. But SLI/Crossfire without fsaa in HL2? Anyway, the 3870 is great and the fastest single card IMO, but it would be far from often that the 3780x2 outperforms dual 8800GT, even with crossfire often scaling better than sli.
a b U Graphics card
February 12, 2008 3:17:23 PM

gamecrazychris said:
Both cards are valued at around $450 and the 3870X2 is just 2 3870's and the 9800GX2 is 2 8800gts(512)

Since the (G92) GTS's are faster than the 3870s then the 9800GX2 should be faster and a better deal right?



First, as has been said no 9800gx2 yet.

Second, the 3870X2 is clocked higher than the HD3870, while from what we know the 9800GX2 has heat/power issues and will be underclocked 8800GTS (G92 128sp) cores.


And yeah, GMA X4500HD is the one to really keep your eyes out for. With that feature set, nothing else will matter. ;) 
February 12, 2008 3:27:13 PM

How underclocked though... itll still suffer from lack of bandwidth.. if its core is now running at like 500mhz...


Although TBH watercooled it should be able to hit the 700mhz+ range quite easily as the 8800GTS can do that, same cores.

So yeh, as far as I can PREDICT so far, 8800GX2 WC'd ftw!
February 12, 2008 3:33:43 PM

Hatman said:
How underclocked though... itll still suffer from lack of bandwidth.. if its core is now running at like 500mhz...


Although TBH watercooled it should be able to hit the 700mhz+ range quite easily as the 8800GTS can do that, same cores.

So yeh, as far as I can PREDICT so far, 8800GX2 WC'd ftw!


With watercooling and volt mods it should hit in the 900-950 Mhz Range.
February 12, 2008 4:38:22 PM

At this point in time I think the 9800X2 is sllower than the 3870X2.Nvidia would have released it if that was not the case.People question how AMD/ATI is winning 2gpu on card and not .Imo Nvidia is stuck ,9800X2 is dispration,and both cards will e just about even.ATI is also working on there drivers.
a b U Graphics card
February 12, 2008 4:50:53 PM

I don't thinik it's an issue of speed, I think it's an issue of heat and stability from the sounds of things.

which isn't surprising with the tight confines of the card and a wearm VPU pressed up against the backplate of anohter warm VPU, not a great design for heat.

I think the GF9800GX2 will be faster in many cases (they do have the luxury of picking their clocks after seeing the competition) but just like the R600, nothing's guaranteed.
February 12, 2008 7:29:28 PM

It sounds like some of you think the 9800GX2 is 2 8800 gt, it is actually 2 8800gts's. But then it wouldn't make much sense if the 9800gx2 got beat by 2 SLI 8800GT's, which might happen.
a b U Graphics card
February 12, 2008 8:06:37 PM

You seem to think that it's going to be clocked as fast as a normal GTS....
a b U Graphics card
February 12, 2008 9:17:06 PM

TheGreatGrapeApe said:
I don't thinik it's an issue of speed, I think it's an issue of heat and stability from the sounds of things.

which isn't surprising with the tight confines of the card and a wearm VPU pressed up against the backplate of anohter warm VPU, not a great design for heat.

Personally, I hate the dual pcb design and wouldn't want one myself. I'd gladly pay more for dual G92 8800GTS and also forget the option going on to tri or in this case quad SLI.
a b U Graphics card
February 12, 2008 9:25:36 PM

After using my GMA X4500HD to head to CeBIT I noticed that there was smoke coming out of Albatron's 9800 show rigs, and a bad smell. Their crazy screensaver looked awesome though, all those weird colours on the screen is bound to un-stick any pixels you may be having problems with.
a b U Graphics card
February 12, 2008 9:27:06 PM

Yeah I'm surprised they went with their GX2 design and not their previous 3D1 designs.

I could see much more demand for a GF8800/8900/9800 3D1 rather than the GX2 personally.
a b U Graphics card
February 12, 2008 10:18:13 PM

yeah. how many people really give a ..either way about sli? just us.
a b U Graphics card
February 12, 2008 10:19:30 PM

how many people you know ran out and bought 7950 gx2's?
a b U Graphics card
February 12, 2008 10:25:59 PM

Id also like to point out that ATI has the driver lead for once, as the 38 came first. From what I heard, the 98X2 is going to suck up some juice as well. The 98 will win, but cost/performance wise...???
February 13, 2008 1:06:12 AM

Thats the question I want to know
February 13, 2008 9:58:51 PM

I have a voodoo 5 5500 in my bedside table draw, I don't think i'll be downgrading to the 9800GX2 any time soon thanks.

a b U Graphics card
February 13, 2008 10:26:02 PM

3DFX4LIFE!
February 13, 2008 10:41:17 PM

well .. i'm new here .. but i've been cheching on THG for a while now .. from all i can see the multi-gpu solutions are still far from perfect .. put aside the drivers and compatibility issues .. it needs stronger psu's which isn't owned by every body .. single cards (and i talk about the single chip cards) are more reliable ..
the only good thing i c about the hd3870 x2 is that it brings the performance of an 8800ultra wwith much lower price point .. so if the 9800gx2 didn't do the same ... so why would anybody bother buying it over the ulta ??
finally .. we don't really need all this performance but for certain tittles (Crysis is a good example) .. and ironically multi-gpu's don't scale very perfect in this tittles .. so why bother .. I'd say wait for a real 8800gtx killer ( a single card that outperforms the gtx by at least 30-40%)
a b U Graphics card
February 13, 2008 10:49:59 PM

That word wait is really starting to bug me. We seem to be waiting alot, ATI can't beat nvidia's cards with a single GPU, nvidia can't beat nvidia's cards with a single GPU, and AMDs CPU department can't seem to do anything on time :lol:  Intel are the only ones who aren't making us wait for decent hardware.

Oh and FYI there probably won't be a single core GTX killer. Everything is going multi-die and multi-core. Extreme parallel processing.

EDIT: Why is all the text crammed to the left side when there is nothing on the right side?
a b U Graphics card
February 14, 2008 3:22:57 PM

randomizer said:
That word wait is really starting to bug me. We seem to be waiting alot, ATI can't beat nvidia's cards with a single GPU, nvidia can't beat nvidia's cards with a single GPU.


Which really makes you appreciate the GTX if you were smart enough to take our advice and buy one over a year ago.

It's truly a statement to the uniqueness of a product when even the company that made it can't really exceed it (Ultra doesn't count).

Either it was an overly expensive (but worth it at the time) feat of engineering or they got lucky, personally I think it's the former, where they weren't focused on trying to compete for the value. I think the change is in part due to the shifted response by ATi/AMD to pushing the HD2900's value, which obviously affected the marketplace.

Quote:
Oh and FYI there probably won't be a single core GTX killer. Everything is going multi-die and multi-core. Extreme parallel processing.


Actually the G100/T200 is supposed to be a huge 1.x billion transistor single core, likely the last such thing, and it should pretty much beat the GTX at least as much as the HD2900 beat the X1800 or even as much as the 8800GTX beat the GF7800.

Quote:
EDIT: Why is all the text crammed to the left side when there is nothing on the right side?


Dunno, the format seems to change everytime they push a patch or fix to the forum software. Should return to normal shortly.
February 14, 2008 7:34:09 PM

I agree with anyone that says waiting SUCKS, I could've gotten a new computer 6 months ago with a q6600 and an 8800GTX, but no I said, I'll just wait till January for the new mainstream 45nm quads. Its freaking Febuary and I'm still waiting for the mystery Q1 release which could be the last day in March. I got Crysis for christmas and I hate looking at the box wishing I could play it.
a b U Graphics card
February 14, 2008 10:24:34 PM

TheGreatGrapeApe said:
Which really makes you appreciate the GTX if you were smart enough to take our advice and buy one over a year ago.

I didn't have enough money a year ago, and I still don't :( 

Actually the G100/T200 is supposed to be a huge 1.x billion transistor single core, likely the last such thing, and it should pretty much beat the GTX at least as much as the HD2900 beat the X1800 or even as much as the 8800GTX beat the GF7800. said:
Actually the G100/T200 is supposed to be a huge 1.x billion transistor single core, likely the last such thing, and it should pretty much beat the GTX at least as much as the HD2900 beat the X1800 or even as much as the 8800GTX beat the GF7800.

Forgot about that one. :whistle:  All this talk about the GX2 and RV770... :pt1cable: 
February 14, 2008 10:34:58 PM

Its simple here... an ultra and an X2 perform pretty much the same. A 9800GTX2 is supposed to be what? 40% better than an ultra? Now consider that those numbers are most likely inflated, put it down to like 20% on average. I figure if they're the same price, the GTX2. If its $50 more, then its still a viable option.... more expensive than $500 and its a mistake.

Frankly I wouldn't recommend either one. Too much power draw, too much riding on the drivers.
!