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EU Fines Microsoft $1.3 Billion, is Intel far behind?!?!

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a b à CPUs
February 27, 2008 9:51:15 AM

Interesting developments in the European Union's anti-trust case against Microsoft. The EU has fined M$ with a record $1.3 BILLION due to the interoperability issues and extraordinarily high "fees" charged to developers wanting to make applications compatible with the Windows desktop operating systems.

LINK!

It may have taken the EU a little over 4 years to render a fine big enough to get M$'s attention regarding their closed source policies, but here it is and no amount of "creative accounting" is going to lessen the huge dent this will make in profits.

Is a similiar decision about Intel's anti-trust activities far behind?
a c 127 à CPUs
February 27, 2008 11:56:20 AM

Didn't they already fine M$ like 740million? And are forcing M$ to make a version of Windows without WMP and release their software to companies?

I understand why M$ doesn't want to release Vistas Kernal to companies as thats how anti-virus software makers create viruses of course to gain sales.

Kinda seems like the EU wont be happy until M$ has another OS that has big enough market shares and messes up the OS market there big time. They don't think about compatability issues with different OS's.

I wounder if they will go afte Apple since they pretty much own the market on MP3 players since they know how to advertise very well. I can see them going after Intel and fining them.

My only question is where does the money go? Does it go to software developers or to the EU's pocket? If its the latter then thats just greed.
February 27, 2008 12:16:18 PM

Sounds an awful like double jeopardy...
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a c 127 à CPUs
February 27, 2008 12:31:50 PM

So if I read the story correctly the EU is saying that MS cannot make any real money on their patents. The company can use them and make 1 million but M$ only gets $4K?

Wow thats kinda weird. Its like saying you own the rights to a certain design and a company can use it and make billions but only give you a few thousand even though you came up with the idea. sad really.
February 27, 2008 12:38:13 PM

Based on their financials, a billion dollar fine (if they ever actually paid it) really wouldn't hurt Microsoft or Intel very much. Microsoft had 14 Billion in net income and Intel had 7 Billion last year alone.
February 27, 2008 12:42:34 PM

They only want their hands on American money. They don't realize that Gates has enough money to wage an actual war. ;) 
a c 127 à CPUs
February 27, 2008 12:49:39 PM

surrealdeal said:
They only want their hands on American money. They don't realize that Gates has enough money to wage an actual war. ;) 


LMAO..... Thats a good one.... and with the money he does have can probably take the EU down without a problem. France first for the ease of it then the rest.
February 27, 2008 12:52:23 PM

surrealdeal said:
They only want their hands on American money. They don't realize that Gates has enough money to wage an actual war. ;) 

Please tell me you're joking!!

Quote:
So if I read the story correctly the EU is saying that MS cannot make any real money on their patents. The company can use them and make 1 million but M$ only gets $4K?

In essence, what you have said is right, but MS don't get just $4k, there are not figures on that news article.
They have told MS that they needed to (3years ago) that they needed to reduced they're fees (which are basically for information) and MS didn't hence the fine. All it has done (from what I can see) is reduced the royalties developers (in the EU) have to pay to access MS information.
They will never directly hand over $1.3billion to the EU though, the fine will in all likelihood, be paid in other ways. :) 
February 27, 2008 12:57:52 PM

And people always thought "If its yours, do anything you want"...
EU trying to prove em wrong... *lol*
5 years until theres not a single computer sold into Europe -.-
February 27, 2008 1:41:12 PM

Let the French eat Linux
February 27, 2008 1:45:14 PM

Ycon said:
And people always thought "If its yours, do anything you want"...
EU trying to prove em wrong... *lol*
5 years until theres not a single computer sold into Europe -.-

Hardly.... :lol: 
Where are there more customers for MS (based on population, not actual sales!) North America or Europe?
Anyhow, we'll still have computers, they just won't be running an MS Operating System! :D 
February 27, 2008 2:16:03 PM

I think the EU is just anti US big business. I wonder how much annoyance the big businesses will tolerate before slowing exports to the EU or ignoring their complaints.

This Microsoft fine is actually just an increased fine due to the fact that Microsoft ignored the EU previously. Imagine the EU as a little 5 year old crying "You're not playing fair. Gimme!" As most of the people in the EU (even the socialist swedes) use Microsoft based products, I doubt the EU would actually ever block Microsoft from selling product there just because they haven't paid the EU mob their fee. As the dollar goes down, Microsoft actually does itself a world of good by not paying as the fine is in US dollars :) 

Intel's already being abused by the EU (remember the raid just a little bit ago). Meh, don't think this matters too much. Until Intel or Microsoft have a competitor that can even come close to them, I think they'll treat any EU threat in a sleepy manner.
February 27, 2008 2:20:54 PM

True,

Much of what the EU does is to sponser "competition".
It does not really matter of doing something wrong.
It's a matter of being too much better than your competition.

A near socialist entity that wants successful companies to assist its competitors directly instead of treating them as competitors.
a b à CPUs
February 27, 2008 2:24:08 PM

I think the fine was actually in euros, its just converted into dollars so you yankees could understand it better. :p 
February 27, 2008 2:26:27 PM

wolverinero79 said:
I think the EU is just anti US big business. I wonder how much annoyance the big businesses will tolerate before slowing exports to the EU or ignoring their complaints.



PLEASE - before you lot start talking ****, do the most rudimentary of research.


The EU carry out all sorts of actions against businesses within Europe on a continual basis to prevent monopolistic practice to the detriment of the consumer.


http://ec.europa.eu/comm/competition/antitrust/cases/in...


A few other examples. Are Air France an American company? Or Yamaha? Or Lufthansa? or Telefónica?


http://ec.europa.eu/comm/competition/index_en.html
February 27, 2008 2:34:17 PM

Sooo.. it took the EU 4 years. How many years have they been working on Intel?
February 27, 2008 2:40:30 PM

They've only changed the royalties percentages in Europe, worldwide they remain the same. Why is it that the EC are the only ones that decided 3.87% for patent licensing and 2.98% for access to communication source was outrageous? Why haven't we heard from US regulatory groups? Or anyone else for that matter? 0.7, 0.5, 0.4%? Give me a break... Microsoft didn't come to that decision with a smile on it's face, but in response to the 'gun to head' effect of billions in fines looming.... oh wait..... they got fined anyway.

I second the question of 'where does the money go?'. This isn't chump change. How much of this can be potentially skimmed with 'grey' numbers? (remember food for oil and the billions being pocketed there? maybe that's apples to oranges, but it still makes you think)

I'm not trying to defend Microsoft for the sake of it being Microsoft, I'm just trying to understand this from a business/regulatory perspective.
February 27, 2008 3:13:42 PM

If the money from Intel goes solely to AMD, that could be perfect. It would give AMD the cash injection they need. I am no expert about this... EU... but I doubt it goes anywhere but to them. I thought we are working toward democracy and capitalism, not socialism. Don't get me wrong, there are some things that socialism could be good for, I just don't think it is good for commercial or corporate uses.

Also, they are asking companies that are based on the capitalistic idealism to think as EU does… why not the other way around? Intel and MS should fine the EU, see how they like it!
February 27, 2008 3:33:14 PM

I wonder what the EU does with the money? Are they going to send a monkey to mars?
February 27, 2008 3:35:50 PM

spaztic7 said:
If the money from Intel goes solely to AMD, that could be perfect. It would give AMD the cash injection they need. I am no expert about this... EU... but I doubt it goes anywhere but to them. I thought we are working toward democracy and capitalism, not socialism. Don't get me wrong, there are some things that socialism could be good for, I just don't think it is good for commercial or corporate uses.


I think you went in a different direction here, but I do see your point.

spaztic7 said:
Also, they are asking companies that are based on the capitalistic idealism to think as EU does… why not the other way around? Intel and MS should fine the EU, see how they like it!


That made me lol.
February 27, 2008 4:00:17 PM

Hey Euro's:

White Flag Factory in France on fire

AP and UPI reported that the French Government announced yesterday that it has raised its terror alert level from "run" to "hide." The only two higher levels in France are "surrender" and "collaborate." The increased alert was precipitated by the recent fire which destroyed the French white flag factory, effectively disabling their military.

Is this true? :) 
February 27, 2008 4:00:18 PM

I dont think the EU is anti US buisness, it think their just plane stupid, on an intellectual level.

Full of retards, i mean, who would trust a politition? Their all a bunch of brown nosing idiots.
February 27, 2008 4:07:45 PM

Perhaps people should have an understanding of the European Union and Europe before they post things here, looking rather foolish.
It's quite obvious that some people don't understand either of them (regardless of whether they live within Europe or not) and as such are making posts that are quite foolish! :lol: 
I'd be quite interested to see Microsoft and Intel sue a union of countries, I mean, what is that going to solve?!? :kaola: 
February 27, 2008 4:15:19 PM

Actually the money from stars-and-stripes-all-american Microsoft will be diverted to muslim extremists and chinese rocket factories to further the looming destruction of the evil empire. A smaller amount will be handed to german genocide specialists and korean chemists to ensure american soil will be purged from the wicked and retarded.

The forum is in a rather sad shape. While i can see the relevance of the EU fining MS or Intel, political debates should be avoided around here. It's like talking about Disney land with a group of kindergarten kids after handing them a bucket of candy.

February 27, 2008 4:26:49 PM

If you want to sell a product in a certain country you must play by their rules, even if you're US based.
February 27, 2008 4:46:42 PM

wolverinero79 said:
I think the EU is just anti US big business. I wonder how much annoyance the big businesses will tolerate before slowing exports to the EU or ignoring their complaints.

This Microsoft fine is actually just an increased fine due to the fact that Microsoft ignored the EU previously. Imagine the EU as a little 5 year old crying "You're not playing fair. Gimme!" As most of the people in the EU (even the socialist swedes) use Microsoft based products, I doubt the EU would actually ever block Microsoft from selling product there just because they haven't paid the EU mob their fee. As the dollar goes down, Microsoft actually does itself a world of good by not paying as the fine is in US dollars :) 

Intel's already being abused by the EU (remember the raid just a little bit ago). Meh, don't think this matters too much. Until Intel or Microsoft have a competitor that can even come close to them, I think they'll treat any EU threat in a sleepy manner.


come down of the high horse marked 'bigotry' and wipe the frofth from your mouth. Microsoft didnt do what the eu wanted them to. They got a hefty fine for ignoring the regulator. End of. The reason the eu goes after microsoft and intel and the u.s. government does not is because any action against them doesn't get lobied out of existence in europe. 'socialist swedes' are anything but in the classical sense if their GDP per head is anything to go buy.
February 27, 2008 4:47:24 PM

zenmaster said:
True,

Much of what the EU does is to sponser "competition".
It does not really matter of doing something wrong.
It's a matter of being too much better than your competition.

A near socialist entity that wants successful companies to assist its competitors directly instead of treating them as competitors.


yeah you sound like youve read up on the subject. not.
February 27, 2008 4:55:59 PM

ImajorI said:
Hey Euro's:

White Flag Factory in France on fire

AP and UPI reported that the French Government announced yesterday that it has raised its terror alert level from "run" to "hide." The only two higher levels in France are "surrender" and "collaborate." The increased alert was precipitated by the recent fire which destroyed the French white flag factory, effectively disabling their military.

Is this true? :) 


lol I heard the french government is hurriedly fitting extra faster reverse gears to their tanks. Sourced from italy at punitive rates.
a c 127 à CPUs
February 27, 2008 5:02:21 PM

ImajorI said:
Hey Euro's:

White Flag Factory in France on fire

AP and UPI reported that the French Government announced yesterday that it has raised its terror alert level from "run" to "hide." The only two higher levels in France are "surrender" and "collaborate." The increased alert was precipitated by the recent fire which destroyed the French white flag factory, effectively disabling their military.

Is this true? :) 


Dear God thats funny. Ahh..just like googling "French War Victories" and it asking if you meant "French War defeats". Good times.

Either way I find it stupid. With Intel/AMD I agree that there should be competition. Either way both companies have to be upheld to the same standars so back during the K8 days when AMD would undercut shipments to smaller OEMs then they should have the same thing happen, that is being fined by the EU for bad practicies.

As for the OS industry, having too many would cause such dismay it would be crazy. If you had 5 different OS'es then software makers would have to develop for each one, users would have to be trained on each one and would cause a breakdown. What happened is MS made an easy OS that became the standard for development and use so it makes it easier on everyone.

I personally think that if M$ has a world wide patent they should get paid for others to use it and not have to give out licensing for next to nothing. Thats like forcing Sony to let every company use Blu-ray tech and get paid very little for it if not nothing. It means the other companies can make them cheaper and under sell Sony thus monopolistic practices.

I wanna see how many people buy the version of Windows that does not have WMP on it. As for the part of "illegaly" integrating IE into Windows, that is a load of crap. It did one major thing and helped increase performance. It was M$ decision to integrate it as part of the OS since Windows is M$'s and not the EU's. Funny thing is you can always use others with no problems.
February 27, 2008 5:05:06 PM

I think Microsoft should just ignore the EU and not pay the fine. It's not like Europeans need to use Windows.
February 27, 2008 5:19:50 PM

TechnologyCoordinator said:
If you want to sell a product in a certain country you must play by their rules, even if you're US based.


Of course, the easy thing for M$ to do is retaliate. Simply inform the EU that it will no longer sell or service M$ products in the EU, and revoke the licencing an operability of all M$ operating systems presently in use. People seem to forget that when they buy a copy of Windows, they are not buying anything other than the right to use it, a right that can be revoked by either party. M$ can simply revoke the OS rights, therefore leaving 10s of millions of people with inoperative computers.

Ok, they can load up Linux or something else. That begs the question of how much software, or even hardware for that matter, is available to use Linux or whatever else that might be used. M$ has a monopoly, or at least an effective one, and there's really not much of anything to fill the vacumn that its departure would cause.
a b à CPUs
February 27, 2008 5:31:34 PM

sailer said:
Of course, the easy thing for M$ to do is retaliate. Simply inform the EU that it will no longer sell or service M$ products in the EU, and revoke the licencing an operability of all M$ operating systems presently in use. People seem to forget that when they buy a copy of Windows, they are not buying anything other than the right to use it, a right that can be revoked by either party. M$ can simply revoke the OS rights, therefore leaving 10s of millions of people with inoperative computers.

Ok, they can load up Linux or something else. That begs the question of how much software, or even hardware for that matter, is available to use Linux or whatever else that might be used. M$ has a monopoly, or at least an effective one, and there's really not much of anything to fill the vacumn that its departure would cause.


actually that would be a good thing, if M$ revokes every windows from europe. That would leave the field empty for linux systems and since no one would be using windows anymore there wouldn't be any compatibility problems between the softwares (linux vs. windows). and because the linux distros are opensource, their softwares are very compatible with each other. and who knows, it might improve it-security aswell, less trojans and stuff :pt1cable: 
February 27, 2008 5:34:27 PM

ImajorI said:
Hey Euro's:

White Flag Factory in France on fire

AP and UPI reported that the French Government announced yesterday that it has raised its terror alert level from "run" to "hide." The only two higher levels in France are "surrender" and "collaborate." The increased alert was precipitated by the recent fire which destroyed the French white flag factory, effectively disabling their military.

Is this true? :) 


That is their main source of income!!! Without their flag factory, how can they surrender?


I pose a question for you all, who would win in a war, France or the Dutch?
February 27, 2008 5:39:13 PM

lol man for man the dutch are supposed to be sh#t bloody hard. The belgiums too apparently. Feisty peoples.
February 27, 2008 5:41:23 PM

sailer said:
Of course, the easy thing for M$ to do is retaliate. Simply inform the EU that it will no longer sell or service M$ products in the EU, and revoke the licencing an operability of all M$ operating systems presently in use. People seem to forget that when they buy a copy of Windows, they are not buying anything other than the right to use it, a right that can be revoked by either party. M$ can simply revoke the OS rights, therefore leaving 10s of millions of people with inoperative computers.

Ok, they can load up Linux or something else. That begs the question of how much software, or even hardware for that matter, is available to use Linux or whatever else that might be used. M$ has a monopoly, or at least an effective one, and there's really not much of anything to fill the vacumn that its departure would cause.


If it ever got to a handbags at dawn situation and revoking licences and stuff then eu countries would just use pirated copies anyway. Would be like china and just use pirated everything.

Would be apples big chance btw.
February 27, 2008 5:57:06 PM

@ Kari- It could well end up being a good thing eventually, not only for the EU, but for every computer user in the world. At the same time, Linux being open source has worked against it in some ways and causing some of the present compatibility problems. Hardware and software companies want standardized OSs so they don't have to write separate programs for every OS or variation of an OS that happens to exist. A possible result would be that prices would escalate dramatically. And don't think there is safety from hackers and virus writers in Linux, etc. The only reason that Linux has fared so well is because from a virus writer's point of view, he can cause more damage writing a virus for M$ users than Linux users, so he/she spends time doing that. If Linux takes a larger share of the market, its users will get the virus writer's attention, and therefore trouble.

Another problem would be the chaos that would result, at least for the short term, as people and companies had to rebuild their computers and networks, much less for the companies to convert their data from M$ to whatever OS they ended up using. The conversions would happen, but they would be expensive and time consuming. So in the short term, a loss of M$ would be terrible, though the long term would be very good.

@ Spastic7 and the others decrying France, and now the Dutch, until the 1900s started, these countries were not considered always that weak. About half of modern France, for instance was once ruled by England, but the French beat back England and took control of its territory. As for the Dutch, they were at one time considered a terror on the seas, with their Dutch East-India Company and its ships threatening every other country's commerce. The modern countries are pitiful, but their past had their share of glory. It was a combination of bad leadership and laziness among the people that led to their downfalls.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
February 27, 2008 6:24:15 PM

both the EU ruling and M$ can shove my rocket up their bums, how many billions?, how many people dont even have running water and how many kids die each day because they dont have enough food, makes one feel a bit sick really.....:-(
February 27, 2008 6:24:16 PM

sailer said:
@ Spastic7 and the others decrying France, and now the Dutch, until the 1900s started, these countries were not considered always that weak. About half of modern France, for instance was once ruled by England, but the French beat back England and took control of its territory. As for the Dutch, they were at one time considered a terror on the seas, with their Dutch East-India Company and its ships threatening every other country's commerce. The modern countries are pitiful, but their past had their share of glory. It was a combination of bad leadership and laziness among the people that led to their downfalls.



Hey, hey, hey… I never said anything bad about the Dutch. I like them, they make good chocolate!

I think the French started to suck farther back than the 1900's. When was the French and Indian war... err... the seven year war for my friends over the pond. It ended in 1763, and the French lost. Nor did they help in the USA revolutionary war until we already started turning the tide from the Redcoats ourselves. Then you have WWI (the great war) and WWII which we all know that is was the French who beat back the Germans... by them self... twice. They don’t have a good track record for the past 200 or so years now. Hell, they barely made it out of their own revolutionary war (it would be funny if both sides surrender to eachother). Don’t get me wrong, they can win a battle or two but recently.... you don’t see many victories from the French in a war, that they started.


That was a real question, well how about we all Canada and Tibet in the mix as well.

Ok, please do not take me serious. I am just trying to have fun. I am an American, I hate the French. Its part of being an American.... it’s a requirement.
February 27, 2008 6:26:42 PM

spoonboy said:
lol I heard the french government is hurriedly fitting extra faster reverse gears to their tanks. Sourced from italy at punitive rates.



Ahhh... that reminds me of an old one...



How many gears does a French tank have?




1 forward, 6 reverse :D 
February 27, 2008 6:42:08 PM

Imagine the audacity of a company that spends Billions on R&D and support of a product, and expect 3-4% royalty for use of its source code?

Restraunt franchises charge more than that for advertisement and use of the name.

It's just a tax by the socialist regime(s) that runs Europe. It’s a fine instead of a tariff, because it would result in more tariffs from the US on Euro products. With 10-20%+ unemployment rates, they need the $ to subsidize European employers to produce products they export to the rest of the world. Unfortunately, socialism doesn’t do much to inspire innovative products or efficiency; so they penalize outsiders, steal their technology and subsidize Euro products to compete on price. Europe is no different than China with the exception of quality in some instances.
February 27, 2008 6:43:26 PM

Anonymous said:
both the EU ruling and M$ can shove my rocket up their bums, how many billions?, how many people dont even have running water and how many kids die each day because they dont have enough food, makes one feel a bit sick really.....:-(


Sell your computer and feed them
February 27, 2008 6:49:10 PM

doubled said:
Imagine the audacity of a company that spends Billions on R&D and support of a product, and expect 3-4% royalty for use of its source code?



Windows is an operating system. It is only fair MS supply the source code to people developing programs for it when they have a monopoly on the market.


How would you like it if MS stopped handing out the source code to valve etc, and you couldn't play games (except those that MS developed).




Quote:

With 10-20%+ unemployment rates,


I don't know your sources, but that range is chronically incorrect.
a c 127 à CPUs
February 27, 2008 6:51:07 PM

sailer said:
@ Kari- It could well end up being a good thing eventually, not only for the EU, but for every computer user in the world. At the same time, Linux being open source has worked against it in some ways and causing some of the present compatibility problems. Hardware and software companies want standardized OSs so they don't have to write separate programs for every OS or variation of an OS that happens to exist. A possible result would be that prices would escalate dramatically. And don't think there is safety from hackers and virus writers in Linux, etc. The only reason that Linux has fared so well is because from a virus writer's point of view, he can cause more damage writing a virus for M$ users than Linux users, so he/she spends time doing that. If Linux takes a larger share of the market, its users will get the virus writer's attention, and therefore trouble.

Another problem would be the chaos that would result, at least for the short term, as people and companies had to rebuild their computers and networks, much less for the companies to convert their data from M$ to whatever OS they ended up using. The conversions would happen, but they would be expensive and time consuming. So in the short term, a loss of M$ would be terrible, though the long term would be very good.

@ Spastic7 and the others decrying France, and now the Dutch, until the 1900s started, these countries were not considered always that weak. About half of modern France, for instance was once ruled by England, but the French beat back England and took control of its territory. As for the Dutch, they were at one time considered a terror on the seas, with their Dutch East-India Company and its ships threatening every other country's commerce. The modern countries are pitiful, but their past had their share of glory. It was a combination of bad leadership and laziness among the people that led to their downfalls.


And we all know who makes the majority of viruses/trojans.....thats right the anti-virus software giants. The majority comes from them so if Linux or Apple got a good majority of shares there would be more viruses created to sell software. Also being opensource is not a benefit in this area as their kernal(the main of the OS) is open to anyone thus the virus creators will have full access to be able to write devistating viruses.

This is the main reason why M$ does not want to give the kernal of Vista out to even McAfee as they know it will leak and cause major virus/trojan problems for users. Either way Linux will not gain enough unless it becomes standardized meaning one main type is used.
a c 127 à CPUs
February 27, 2008 7:04:01 PM

spaztic7 said:
Ok, please do not take me serious. I am just trying to have fun. I am an American, I hate the French. Its part of being an American.... it’s a requirement.


This much is true. lol

Amiga500 said:
Windows is an operating system. It is only fair MS supply the source code to people developing programs for it when they have a monopoly on the market.


How would you like it if MS stopped handing out the source code to valve etc, and you couldn't play games (except those that MS developed).




Quote:

With 10-20%+ unemployment rates,


I don't know your sources, but that range is chronically incorrect.


Its not that they should stop but rather they should get paid for others to use this program. If they have the rights to it no one should use it for free. M$ already does allow others to use it while charging a certain % for it. If you look up Apple I am sure they do the same.
February 27, 2008 7:06:16 PM

Amiga500 said:
Windows is an operating system. It is only fair MS supply the source code to people developing programs for it when they have a monopoly on the market.


How would you like it if MS stopped handing out the source code to valve etc, and you couldn't play games (except those that MS developed)..





That is an ignorant, ridiculous argument.

You CHOOSE to run Microsoft, OS X or any of the Linux or other freeware OSes. When you go to a store to PURCHASE a program, you no doubt flip the box over to see what operating systems it's compatible with. If you CHOOSE to use Linux, the source code is FREE. Maybe Microsoft should supply windows for free AND employ a couple hundred thousand people to support it?


I pay for software that is Microsoft compatible. No one is forcing any companies to make software Microsoft compatible. No one is forcing you to use Microsoft. You could use linux and get the source code for free.


Amiga500 said:


I don't know your sources, but that range is chronically incorrect.


12% in France and Italy, 23% in Spain, 9% in Germany.....seems your information is wrong.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990CE5DE...



February 27, 2008 7:08:00 PM

jimmysmitty said:
Its not that they should stop but rather they should get paid for others to use this program. If they have the rights to it no one should use it for free. M$ already does allow others to use it while charging a certain % for it. If you look up Apple I am sure they do the same.


And the EU decided for low margin products they charged too much and were running the other companies out of business.

M$ ignored then and are paying for it.



Hardly the free market you would aspire to eh?

February 27, 2008 7:18:18 PM

doubled said:
That is an ignorant, ridiculous argument.

You CHOOSE to run Microsoft, OS X or any of the Linux or other freeware OSes.


MS has a virtual monopoly on the desktop market. Not good, but that is the way it is.


That fact changes things. I hope that isn't too complicated for you to comprehend.



Quote:

I pay for software that is Microsoft compatible. No one is forcing any companies to make software Microsoft compatible. No one is forcing you to use Microsoft. You could use linux and get the source code for free.


And you said my argument was ridiculous? I don't know why your talking about the customer in the context you are.


The company that sells the software is forced (by the market) to make produces for the dominant OS, which is windows.




Quote:

12% in France and Italy, 23% in Spain, 9% in Germany.....seems your information is wrong.




:lol:  :lol:  :lol: 


That is dated 1995 you eejit!!!



As of 2007 it is 7.1% for the WHOLE EU.

For the countries you mention:

France: 8.3%
Italy: 6.8% (2006)
Spain: 8.3%
Germany: 8.4%

http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/portal/page?_pageid=1996,39140985&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL&screen=detailref&language=en&product=STRIND_EMPLOI&root=STRIND_EMPLOI/emploi/em071
February 27, 2008 7:22:07 PM

spaztic7 said:
Hey, hey, hey… I never said anything bad about the Dutch. I like them, they make good chocolate!

Ok, please do not take me serious. I am just trying to have fun. I am an American, I hate the French. Its part of being an American.... it’s a requirement.



Looking back at your comment on the Dutch, I see I misread it. And I think the Dutch would win.

Back to the French. Some of my English ancestors had their butts kicked by the French, but that was further back then the 1900s, a lot further back.

And yes, I realize it was all in a bit of fun. Now back to something really serious, like the Superbowl. What chance do you think the Seahawks might have? Finally make it, or just another almost got there, but not quite?
February 27, 2008 7:22:48 PM

spaztic7 said:
I am an American, I hate the French. Its part of being an American.... it’s a requirement.



I, as an American, dislike this statement.
February 27, 2008 7:23:04 PM

Amiga500 said:
And the EU decided for low margin products they charged too much and were running the other companies out of business.

M$ ignored then and are paying for it.



Hardly the free market you would aspire to eh?


It's not free market, its price fixing ala Socialism and Communism
!