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B3 Phenom - TLB Bugs still exist - New processor maybe the resolution

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February 28, 2008 5:55:42 AM

http://news.softpedia.com/news/CES-2008-AMD-039-s-B3-St...

I posted this under the AMD Stubburn or Just Dumb section.....


I hate to bring the bad news to all AMD fans, me previously included.......


Heres one for Thunderman to retaliate to....


Looks like another mess up or failure.......


Oh well


I wont be buying any Phenoms soon..... better stick to the 6400 BE for the time being....


This AMD saga is becomming very boring now, it says that B4 will hopefully sort TLB bug and you wont get B3 until May 2008..

It also says the Phenom 9700 and 9900 have been delayed too.............










More about : phenom tlb bugs exist processor resolution

February 28, 2008 6:42:09 AM

Pretty devastating if it is true, buuuuuuuut the article is dated 6 weeks ago...
Perhaps that was speculation before AMD did the press release for B3?
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February 28, 2008 7:34:42 AM

LukeBird said:
Pretty devastating if it is true, buuuuuuuut the article is dated 6 weeks ago...
Perhaps that was speculation before AMD did the press release for B3?




Hopefully it is but then again, AMD were not very honest about the TLB bug in the first place...

I just hooked up on something that said CES2008 and saw this.....

As CES2008 is only in March it hasnt got much time to get their act together....

Anyway B3 chips will be numbered with a 50 at the end so 9650, 9750 for example, so I am led to believe...
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February 28, 2008 7:47:40 AM

Interesting how many users of E8400's have posted with stuck temp sensors at THG ... and how few have raised issues with Phenom's.

Sure it isn't as quick as a Q running at the same frequency - for most tasks.

I'd say based on posts the E8400 temp issue has become a disaster.

I'd say based on the phenom posts its mainly diehard Intel "trailer park techies".

lol
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February 28, 2008 8:02:48 AM

Reynod said:
Interesting how many users of E8400's have posted with stuck temp sensors at THG ... and how few have raised issues with Phenom's.

Not that interesting. The temp sensor issue is just a moot point that only affects the paranoid. Annoyingly, that is 98% of the population. They seem to think that they need to keep their CPU under 50C to make it last for more than a year or so. I don't know why people get so worried about their temps, if it's stable who cares how hot it is? If it was dangerously hot it would have throttled or shut down.
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February 28, 2008 8:05:30 AM

thats old 'news' and have proven to be just a rumour, TLB is indeed fixed in B3 and those CPUs will be launched in Q2 2008.

http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7412.html
Quote:
AMD roadmap for 2008
---
In Q2, we will also get to play with Phenom 9700 and 9900, and possibly even a third model which remains unnamed at this time. The Phenom 9500 and 9600 will be replaced by the 9550 and 9650, B3 stepping. Same goes for the lesser known energy efficient model 9100e, which will be replaced by the 9150e. And, there's absolutely no proof of the rumored overclocking stepping dubbed B4.
February 28, 2008 8:29:39 AM

Reynod said:
Interesting how many users of E8400's have posted with stuck temp sensors at THG ... and how few have raised issues with Phenom's.

Sure it isn't as quick as a Q running at the same frequency - for most tasks.

I'd say based on posts the E8400 temp issue has become a disaster.

I'd say based on the phenom posts its mainly diehard Intel "trailer park techies".

lol


humm what about the flaky third core? :lol:  I'm sure there's a lot more people complaining about that than... people who're complaining about TLB.

I'd say based on posts, E8400 temperature issue and Phenom's flaky third cores receive similar amount of complaints from its users.
February 28, 2008 8:30:47 AM

Kari said:
thats old 'news' and have proven to be just a rumour, TLB is indeed fixed in B3 and those CPUs will be launched in Q2 2008.

http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7412.html
Quote:
AMD roadmap for 2008
---
In Q2, we will also get to play with Phenom 9700 and 9900, and possibly even a third model which remains unnamed at this time. The Phenom 9500 and 9600 will be replaced by the 9550 and 9650, B3 stepping. Same goes for the lesser known energy efficient model 9100e, which will be replaced by the 9150e. And, there's absolutely no proof of the rumored overclocking stepping dubbed B4.



Your link says nothing about the TLB bug.
February 28, 2008 8:51:23 AM

yomamafor1 said:
humm what about the flaky third core? :lol:  I'm sure there's a lot more people complaining about that than... people who're complaining about TLB.

I'd say based on posts, E8400 temperature issue and Phenom's flaky third cores receive similar amount of complaints from its users.

Yet together they have pushed the sale of salt to a new level.
My crystal ball isn't working, so I guess I'll just wait until Cebit to see what happens will B3.
February 28, 2008 9:21:25 AM

Kari said:
thats old 'news' and have proven to be just a rumour, TLB is indeed fixed in B3 and those CPUs will be launched in Q2 2008.

http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7412.html
Quote:
AMD roadmap for 2008
---
In Q2, we will also get to play with Phenom 9700 and 9900, and possibly even a third model which remains unnamed at this time. The Phenom 9500 and 9600 will be replaced by the 9550 and 9650, B3 stepping. Same goes for the lesser known energy efficient model 9100e, which will be replaced by the 9150e. And, there's absolutely no proof of the rumored overclocking stepping dubbed B4.


Hellboy loves to bash AMD, specifically over Phenom. I guess he and TC are disappointed ex fans who feel jilted on one hand and overexcited about their new company on the other. So, old news is better news if it can be spun negative.

As for the new spin on the B3, I don't care if the B3's delayed from April to May. If the French site isn't rumor mongering, then that's what a good company does when the first spin still has issues. AMD's investors should be happy that the company's getting product out that people want at the prices offered.

Me, I'm still likely to wait for 45nm, and maybe even Q1 2009 for AM3. CPU limited or not, I'm having fun with my old CPU and RAM, new budget mobo and very good 3870x2. I'd rather spend the money this spring on a 24" LCD.

yomamafor1 said:
humm what about the flaky third core? :lol:  I'm sure there's a lot more people complaining about that than... people who're complaining about TLB.

I'd say based on posts, E8400 temperature issue and Phenom's flaky third cores receive similar amount of complaints from its users.


The Phenom logical core 2 issue has had very few reports and one amatuer test here at the forums. The Wolfie's temp sensors reports all come back to one thread at another forum. Though I think that both AMD and Intel sometimes have QA issues, I don't see either report as cause to flame the opposition. The Phenom's with bad cores were most likely meant to be binned as triple cores and got past QA. The Wolfies with bad sensors were probably a acerbated by overclockers using the wrong software with sensors that aren't really designed for overclocking info.

So, what about all the complaints? They make for good tinder in a flame war, but until Tom's or Anandtech really investigates these reports professionally, they're just Forum FUD.
February 28, 2008 9:34:52 AM

yomamafor1 said:
humm what about the flaky third core? :lol:  I'm sure there's a lot more people complaining about that than... people who're complaining about TLB.

I'd say based on posts, E8400 temperature issue and Phenom's flaky third cores receive similar amount of complaints from its users.

But most of the complaints aren't from users are they?!
February 28, 2008 9:40:07 AM

Kari said:
well no, that one doesnt. How about this one then? :D 
http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7189.html

this one is more recent, but doesn't state it clearly but it implies it anyways
http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7407.html


Well, the first one proves that FUD is hell. The second one is a bit unclear about one notion I had about triple cores: that there was a bad core issue leading AMD to create a market that really didn't exist. What had me wondering about the second article is why would they release B3 triple cores if there are no core issues or yield problems past B2?

Still, both AMD and Intel do this with yield problems for other CPU's, so it's not a problem for me, nor does it prove hellboy's point about AMD (or Thunderman's for that matter). Only the "Nigel from Spinal Tap" form of marketing works for triple cores vs. quad cores, if they had to disable a perfectly good quad to get a triple, it wouldn't be worth it for retail, but would work for clueless OEM shoppers at brick and morter stores.

February 28, 2008 11:13:22 AM

Very Old Article that has been disproven.
February 28, 2008 11:35:13 AM

zenmaster said:
Very Old Article that has been disproven.
Has it? As a B3 been independantly reviewed? Rebuffed is not the same as disproven.

(please read this as a question, not disagreement)
February 28, 2008 12:36:56 PM

spongebob said:
Has it? As a B3 been independantly reviewed? Rebuffed is not the same as disproven.

(please read this as a question, not disagreement)


Not "Independently", but AMD knows how to create the problem, they were always aware of the problem.
They have also announced it's fixed and announced a a good release date.

99.9% of the AMD Fanboys on here think I'm an Intel Fanboy.
However, I just call it like I see it.

But in this case, I'm fairly certain its resolved.
However, that will not mean terribly much.
It will not fix other performance and heat issues the Phenom has.
Hopefully B3 will come with improvements beyond just the TLB errata which was more of an issue for their Server than Workstation Chips.
February 28, 2008 1:57:46 PM

Thank you for creating a thread yet again on an unfounded rumor. Maybe I will create a thread that said Core 2 Duo has launched.
February 28, 2008 2:29:34 PM

yipsl said:

The Phenom logical core 2 issue has had very few reports and one amatuer test here at the forums. The Wolfie's temp sensors reports all come back to one thread at another forum. Though I think that both AMD and Intel sometimes have QA issues, I don't see either report as cause to flame the opposition. The Phenom's with bad cores were most likely meant to be binned as triple cores and got past QA. The Wolfies with bad sensors were probably a acerbated by overclockers using the wrong software with sensors that aren't really designed for overclocking info.

So, what about all the complaints? They make for good tinder in a flame war, but until Tom's or Anandtech really investigates these reports professionally, they're just Forum FUD.


There are actually two active users that encountered Phenom's core2 problem. While I really hate to bring that thread back to life, there are also others who reported the same thing on other forums (xtremesystem for instance).

Phenom's core2 and E8400's temperature has things in common:

1. Only reported under overclocking conditions (or when clock setting is tinkered)
2. Both may have been addressed in the published errata section, with fixes (at least Intel did)
3. Both may not be a hardware problem, but software problems (Overdrive vs. BIOS thermal interrupt value).

Now, as Caasma and I found, both problems also receive similar amount of hits when searched on Google. This is idiotic in nature though, so I wouldn't count this.
February 28, 2008 2:30:18 PM

LukeBird said:
But most of the complaints aren't from users are they?!


Actually they are.
February 28, 2008 2:58:54 PM

yomamafor1 said:
Actually they are.

Actually, as you just proved above, they're not.
I don't want to argue (I'm fed up with it and tired! :)  ) but you just said owners have reported it.
How many other people on here are saying they know someone who knows someone that has encountered it.
I'm not talking about it (or the E8400 'problem', for that matter) because I own neither and can't prove either way. :) 
February 28, 2008 3:22:34 PM

LukeBird said:
Actually, as you just proved above, they're not.
I don't want to argue (I'm fed up with it and tired! :)  ) but you just said owners have reported it.
How many other people on here are saying they know someone who knows someone that has encountered it.
I'm not talking about it (or the E8400 'problem', for that matter) because I own neither and can't prove either way. :) 


:sarcastic:  :sarcastic: 

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/248265-28-phenom-expo...

http://forums.amd.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=319&t...
February 28, 2008 3:38:13 PM

Reynod said:
Interesting how many users of E8400's have posted with stuck temp sensors at THG ... and how few have raised issues with Phenom's.

Sure it isn't as quick as a Q running at the same frequency - for most tasks.

I'd say based on posts the E8400 temp issue has become a disaster.

I'd say based on the phenom posts its mainly diehard Intel "trailer park techies".

lol


None of the problems with the E8400 or Phenom (besides that it's slower than it was hyped up to be) seem to be too wide spread. There are a few who like to try to make a big deal out of nothing by posting about these issues all the time, including one guy who keeps writing that the E8400 is going to set fire to its owner's house.

Also, since AMD has been relegated to the budget segment because it can't match up to Intel in terms of performance, the Phenom is probably the processor of choice in the trailer park community.
February 28, 2008 4:24:13 PM

I have put together 61 systems with Phenoms sense the release of the chips. Not one single person has called me or reported a single tlb bug or problem with any core to my knowledge. I get reports on every tech problem my systems have via the company I contract under. 61 working desktop compuers with zero problems is a good number. I almost never have problems with AMD systems. Now Intel builds at stock clocks are pretty bad. I average about 12-14 good builds before I get a report. Its almost always related to the controler or the MB in some way. Believe me folks current CPUs are not our problem. Its everything they are planted on we should be talking about. There is just to many variables in hardware after the cpu.
February 28, 2008 8:47:53 PM

endyen said:
Yet together they have pushed the sale of salt to a new level.
My crystal ball isn't working, so I guess I'll just wait until Cebit to see what happens will B3.


Wait... hold on here.. Your Crystal Ball isn't working? [:mousemonkey:4]

Quote:
I loaned out my crystal ball, maybe when I get it back I can answer your question.


You should give that back to her. You don't know where its been. [:mousemonkey:7]
February 28, 2008 9:02:43 PM

TLB bug dont exist or will not happen or real use. It only exist on stressed conditions at lab tests.
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February 28, 2008 9:13:01 PM

I don't know or care if it exists in B3, but it is going to be fixed.
February 28, 2008 9:16:14 PM

pogsnet said:
TLB bug dont exist or will not happen or real use. It only exist on stressed conditions at lab tests.


Then get one. Don't wait for the B3 stepping.

Edit:

I mean no one's going to throw stones at ya, or call you names.... or make you go to the sperm bank. :heink:  . o O (wat is with these logos?)
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February 28, 2008 9:27:43 PM

Maybe the TLB bug felt it was getting the "Not a big deal" and went after the cores to cause havok?

It just wanted to stir the juice up a bit and cause some trouble
February 28, 2008 9:30:09 PM

Yeah old news. CES was a while back. The initial B3s had problems, but they were fixed. AMD will also be shipping 45nm Shanghais in the summer.
You guys have to read articles with a grain of salt...
February 28, 2008 9:54:23 PM

Loser777 said:
Yeah old news. CES was a while back. The initial B3s had problems, but they were fixed. AMD will also be shipping 45nm Shanghais in the summer.
You guys have to read articles with a grain of salt...


Too many people forget their shaker of salt when reading forum posts about bad cores or sensors, or when reading rumors that are months old. Too much fanboyism on both sides.

Considering the triple core preview at Tom's, I'm likely to get a B3 Toliman for our 690G board when it arrives retail, then go 45nm Shanghai next year with a new motherboard once AM3 arrives. It still won't be as good as Intel, but it's priced right and will still perform better than an Athlon X2. I expect Shanghai to be the ideal Phenom.

My only kvetch is that the 690G boards have bios available for Phenom (thanks ASUS) but I had to skimp on the latest board when I also ordered the 3870x2. So, MSI's 690V does not have a bios that supports Phenom. More AM2 boards should support the upgrade, and I blame the board manufacturer's. They obviously want to sell more 780G boards at the low end come March 4th.
February 29, 2008 9:01:21 AM

uguv said:

Also, since AMD has been relegated to the budget segment because it can't match up to Intel in terms of performance, the Phenom is probably the processor of choice in the trailer park community.


Or a rented 2 bedroom townhouse originally built in 1972, don't forget about that. Our townhouse has 3 PC's and B3 Phenom's would do fine. 45nm Phenoms would do better.

I'd go with a Wolfie in May, but I really don't want to get an expensive CPU plus expensive motherboard for Nehalem less than a year later. By just slapping a triple core Phenom in one ASUS 690G, getting a 790 Crossfire board with another quad Phenom and keeping the 690V and Athlon X2 in my sig as a legacy motherboard to retire the Prescott in my kid's PC, I save a bit of money next year, even if I spend the same amount this year.

The real decision comes next year Shanghai or Nehalem? At what price point? All I can be sure of is I want a CrossfireX system this time next year, so a Phenom in May might just make that affordable later on. The choices: 4870x2 GPU alongside the 3870x2 or two times as much to go Intel this year and the same next year.

I'm often considered an AMD fanboy, but I have very mixed feelings about both companies. I just don't think the Phenom is hopeless and I really like ATI. So, I"m an ATI fanboy who takes AMD as part of the relationship, the budget part. Any Intel upgrade I could afford as easily as the AMD upgrades wouldn't be much faster than the Phenom at stock, and I really think overclocking low end processors is a lame hobby. I can see overclocking the high end parts past any Intel clocks, but that's about it.
February 29, 2008 9:25:21 AM

yipsl said:
and I really think overclocking low end processors is a lame hobby. I can see overclocking the high end parts past any Intel clocks, but that's about it.


You really think its lame, eh? So lets do a what if scenario...

What if.... you could OC a phenom 9500 chip at 3.8ghz or 4.5ghz safely/stably. Would you same that it would be lame then?

Do you even understand, besides it being a hobby, it gives you an advantage, to spend less for just as good or better performance? I mean, my dad isn't an enthusiast, but saved him some cash that got him a system to offer more performance then spending allot more on the CPU itself. Back then it was $133 E4300@2.4ghz vs $319 for E6600@ 2.4ghz. It's OC now to 2.7ghz stably, it's an OEM chip, which the 30days have been well over, and Intel's 1 year warranty is almost over.

I'd say that your thinking is lame, and your running out of things to say against something you have a problem against.
March 2, 2008 10:07:28 PM

Grimmy said:

Do you even understand, besides it being a hobby, it gives you an advantage, to spend less for just as good or better performance? I mean, my dad isn't an enthusiast, but saved him some cash that got him a system to offer more performance then spending allot more on the CPU itself.


My argument isn't a financial one. I'm not calling it lame for people who can only afford the low end CPU's and must keep them for 2+ years. Overclocking gives them an edge.

I'm referring to some of the enthusiasts I've talked to over the years who can afford the high end, but buy the low end just to overclock. Then, they buy a new low end to keep up much sooner than an enthusiast who overclocked the high end would. Of course, even there, they try to find a sweet spot in the lineup, a CPU that's not handicapped (like a Pentium C2D) and can almost give the performance of the high end part.

These are the same guys who call the upcoming B3 Phenom's "welfare processors". For those guys, they'd be better off getting the latest Intel EE and then overclocking it on water. The thing is, they wouldn't be able to post as often on the boards about how high they got their new low end to midrange part to clock, because there would be no practical need to upgrade as frequently.

I can accept a 14% performance hit over Intel's stock Q6600 because I'd rather spend the money on a new monitor and GPU. I don't overclock because I like stable systems that run the fastest I can afford. At 24" resolutions, the GPU matters more than the CPU, though that might be changing with today's games and CPU's.



March 3, 2008 12:11:08 PM

yipsl said:
My argument isn't a financial one. I'm not calling it lame for people who can only afford the low end CPU's and must keep them for 2+ years. Overclocking gives them an edge.

I'm referring to some of the enthusiasts I've talked to over the years who can afford the high end, but buy the low end just to overclock. Then, they buy a new low end to keep up much sooner than an enthusiast who overclocked the high end would. Of course, even there, they try to find a sweet spot in the lineup, a CPU that's not handicapped (like a Pentium C2D) and can almost give the performance of the high end part.

These are the same guys who call the upcoming B3 Phenom's "welfare processors". For those guys, they'd be better off getting the latest Intel EE and then overclocking it on water. The thing is, they wouldn't be able to post as often on the boards about how high they got their new low end to midrange part to clock, because there would be no practical need to upgrade as frequently.

I can accept a 14% performance hit over Intel's stock Q6600 because I'd rather spend the money on a new monitor and GPU. I don't overclock because I like stable systems that run the fastest I can afford. At 24" resolutions, the GPU matters more than the CPU, though that might be changing with today's games and CPU's.


It seems you are just frustrated with some people I see. I wouldn't call the B3 Phenom or B2 stepping "welfare processors". Thing is, if the phenom's did OC well or better then intel's stuff, then it would be a different story. Then again, there are hardcore fans that just want their stuff to be from only one company, which I find some of those kinds of people, fanatically brain washed.

But then its just general preference that just turns in to a "mines better" war, which is sad, and should be avoided.

Even if I could afford to spend 1K+ on just the CPU, or midrange $700 bucks CPU, I'd wouldn't do it cause thats just insane. [:mousemonkey:6]
March 3, 2008 1:04:08 PM

im just hoping this revamp will allow higher clockspeeds. phenom runs pretty well clock for clock. a 200 mhz increase shows significant performance as it did with k8. so if they can just allow phenom to get up to at least 3.2 ghz for now i think overclockers would be pretty happy.
now if intel decides to cut the q6600 below $200 in the near future amd might be screwed.
not that im an intel fanboy but i have an intel system right now and i sure would like to see more quad cores < $200
Anonymous
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February 9, 2009 5:08:43 PM

I just bought a new motherboard and processor, the 9500 phenom. No, I didn't know about the bug.

The motherboard automatically was patched for it and the difference with the patch and without it is quite a lot in slow performance.

So I took the patch off, the system works superb.

I play games, encode videos, basically do anything and my system has not crashed once. The bug is supposed to occur when all 4 cores are stressed, I doubt my needs will ever do that.

For now, the phenom is good and does what I need it to do with crashing. 3 weeks now without a crash.

February 9, 2009 8:58:54 PM

FYI: This thread is over a year old.
!