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Is "Ultra Durable" worth $30?

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March 24, 2008 5:44:20 PM

Specifically, considering GA-P35-DS3L vs. GA-EP35-DS3R.

Forget the fact that there's more functionality on the latter board.

If I was *only* weighing these two boards based on the quality of the build, is the EP really "built better"? And, if so, is it worth $30 more?

More about : ultra durable worth

March 24, 2008 11:21:37 PM

I'm thinking almost the same thing...only comparing the Abit IP35-E ($60 after MIR from Newegg) to the P35-DS3L($90 from the Egg). Trying to keep my build around $1000 so not really concerned for anything that's labeled 'ultra durable". The P35-DS3L uses solid capacitors like the DS3R but not labeled ultra durable. I here that its a good mobo from many posters in this forum. EP is energy efficient so there might be something in the build to make it last longer. Time and builders using the board will tell you. The DS3L has been out for a while compared with the DS3R and so far, its been favored by many builders for many types of uses. Is it worth 30 bucks more? That would depend on what your going to do <Games, Video editing> and what other components your running or going to run <big video card, RAID w/ 4 drives> and what your budget is. Just learning about building my first PC. This looks like a good place to start :) 
March 25, 2008 12:01:39 AM

Here is My View............

Forget Ultra Durable, but the DS3R has better Chipset Cooling and should be easier to hit a High FSB.

Also, the DS3L only use a 4Pin Mobo Power connector that can OverHeat with Quad Cores if you try to do a really high Voltage/OC.

If you are going to OC a 2xxx series the DS3L is a great deal since neither Chipset Temps due to a HIGH FSB or the 4pin Mobo POwer connector over-heating is an issue.

If you are want to hit really high FSB speeds with a 8xxxx chip or plan on pushing your Q6600 to somehting like 3.6Ghz, I would really consider the DS3R.


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March 25, 2008 12:03:54 AM

Some Folks have reported issues with the 45nm Chips on the IP35-E, not sure if they are true. Others have said the NB Cooling chip is so big it interferes with some CPU coolers. Overall it's a great board, but I guess you just need to take those facts into consideration.

The fact that it's been on sale for so long would be a slight concern, which makes me believe the 45nm issues.

March 25, 2008 12:21:16 AM

zenmaster said:

Also, the DS3L only use a 4Pin Mobo Power connector that can OverHeat with Quad Cores if you try to do a really high Voltage/OC.
Wait, what? Explain plz.

a c 124 V Motherboard
March 25, 2008 1:22:35 AM

BlueSun said:
Specifically, considering GA-P35-DS3L vs. GA-EP35-DS3R.

Forget the fact that there's more functionality on the latter board.

If I was *only* weighing these two boards based on the quality of the build, is the EP really "built better"? And, if so, is it worth $30 more?

If you are not running raid and extreme overclocking(since the voltage system on the DS3L is a little weaker. but still good more general overclocking...3 and 3.2 area) then the DS3L is a safe bet....you want more sata and rail as well as some cooler running parts a bigger heatsink and better voltage regulation system go DS3R.

EDIT, the DS3R only uses the 4 pin connector....so unless you are pushing unsafe voltage you should be fine.
March 25, 2008 2:19:08 AM

The 8 pin 12V plug is needed for CPUs above 130W. Check the wattage of the CPU, OCed and over volted if you are going to, in the eXtreme Power Supply Calculator v2.5, and choose your mobo accordingly.
March 25, 2008 3:02:17 AM

Asian PingPong said:
Wait, what? Explain plz.


Basically, the Power Connector going from the PSU to the Mobo actually melted/fused to the Mobo in this review.
The Other Two Mobos mentioned above use an 8-pin instead of a 4-pin connector so less power flows through each wire. There is a good chance what they saw was an anomaly, but if I was planning on extreme OCing with a Quad, I would be a little concerned.

http://xbitlabs.com/articles/mainboards/display/ga-p35-...

But maybe it was not the mainboard that caused the problem? Maybe the PSU failed workload like that? At the time of tests we didn’t have a suitable PSU at hand, so we decided to see if the abit IP35 Pro would work with the same PSU in the same mode. When trying to disassemble the testbed, we couldn’t remove the four-pin ARX12V power plug from the connector on the board. After some significant effort and additional tools, we discovered that one of the plastic pin linings melted and stuck dead to the mainboard connector.

Edit: I stand corrected about the other Gigabyte using an 8pin Power slot. Only the ABIT does appears to do so for boards in that range that I checked. I would really only be concerned if you were going to push your Q6600 really hard. (1.5v 3.6Ghz, etc... )
March 25, 2008 4:27:44 PM

I was going to go to 3.0 on a Q6600.

"Ultra Durable" and "Ultra Cooling", used in the description, certainly implies "better" than the non case. Just wondering if this is true, in what way, and whether it was worth a premium of $20-30.

I hate those marketing phrases that leave you wondering.
March 26, 2008 7:35:18 PM

BlueSun said:
I was going to go to 3.0 on a Q6600.

"Ultra Durable" and "Ultra Cooling", used in the description, certainly implies "better" than the non case. Just wondering if this is true, in what way, and whether it was worth a premium of $20-30.

I hate those marketing phrases that leave you wondering.
The "D" means Ultra Durable solid capacitors and possibly ferrite core coils in the voltage regulator circuitry. They aren't really clear about the ferrite core coils though. It is worth it in my opinion. The difference is the "E" which is their energy efficient mobo. Which of the two mobos you linked is better? Probably the "E". I do like the ultra durable, which they both have. It should last longer and provide better power. The big difference is that the "E" mobo ends in "R", so it has more SATA ports and RAID. Here is a comparison sheet.
GA-EP35-DS3R (rev. 2.1) & GA-P35-DS3L (rev. 2.0) Comparison Sheet.

Both mobos have only the 4 pin 12V connector. the Q6600 @ 3G and 1.3V is at 128W, according to the power calculator linked above, so you are approaching the 130W that needs the 8 pin plug. I'm sure there are a lot of people that are OCing the Q6600 further with those mobos with the 4 pin plug so I wouldn't panic. The mobos with the 8 pin plug cost more cash.
a b V Motherboard
March 26, 2008 8:28:19 PM

Question? Are the pins seperate, or parallel (All 4 + pins shorted and all Gnd (Rtn) pins shorted at board. Also for the 2nd set of 4 pins to be used they must go to a deicated pin on processor.

Zorg, Not disputing you, I don't know. My book states that the 8 pin is required for " using Intel Pentium D Extreme Ed. processor".

Editted. need to do some research. Since this is +12, I gather it goes to an onboard VR prior to going to the Proc. and it seams odd that they would "knock" +12 down to 1.xx vs the 3.3 V. I'm missing something (Maybe some grey matter between ears)
March 26, 2008 9:36:52 PM

I don't have the specifics either. Specific information regarding this is hard to find. I am basing my recommendation on the information in the GA-P35-DQ6 manual. I was using the wattage draw as opposed to the type of processor.
Quote:
Important Use of a power supply providing an ATX 12V (2x4-pin) power connector is recommended by processor manufacturer when using Intel® Pentium® Extreme Edition series processors (130W or greater).

Looking at it, column 2 and 3 have the same wattage but a different connector, maybe it's not the wattage. He!!, I don't know.

Power Supply Considerations & Quick Reference Guide

Anonymous
a b V Motherboard
March 26, 2008 10:09:25 PM

its only 30 bucks. just do it.
March 26, 2008 11:19:45 PM

zenmaster said:
Basically, the Power Connector going from the PSU to the Mobo actually melted/fused to the Mobo in this review.
The Other Two Mobos mentioned above use an 8-pin instead of a 4-pin connector so less power flows through each wire. There is a good chance what they saw was an anomaly, but if I was planning on extreme OCing with a Quad, I would be a little concerned.

http://xbitlabs.com/articles/mainboards/display/ga-p35-...

But maybe it was not the mainboard that caused the problem? Maybe the PSU failed workload like that? At the time of tests we didn’t have a suitable PSU at hand, so we decided to see if the abit IP35 Pro would work with the same PSU in the same mode. When trying to disassemble the testbed, we couldn’t remove the four-pin ARX12V power plug from the connector on the board. After some significant effort and additional tools, we discovered that one of the plastic pin linings melted and stuck dead to the mainboard connector.

Edit: I stand corrected about the other Gigabyte using an 8pin Power slot. Only the ABIT does appears to do so for boards in that range that I checked. I would really only be concerned if you were going to push your Q6600 really hard. (1.5v 3.6Ghz, etc... )


Im thinking the power supply was underspec. I couldnt find a decent review on it anywhere so that worries me, also I wonder how old is it? What effeciency is it? I did the power supply calc with their setup (or close to it) and it recommended a minimum 500 Watt Power supply. The one they used was a 550 watt and Efficiency is 72% (http://www.burnoutpc.com/modules/smartsection/item.php?...) which is 392 watts... Seems like this was a bad choice, you should try out the PC Power and Cooling 750 Quad (its rated at 40 Cel. not 25) it is a wonderful power supply...
March 27, 2008 12:11:22 AM

depends if you prefer small stuff...
March 27, 2008 12:11:23 AM

I have had GA-P35-DS3L running a q6600 at 3.7ghz @1.5v with 100% on air for a few months and then i upgraded to a 780i for sli functionality.
a b V Motherboard
March 27, 2008 1:33:21 AM

Zorg - Thanks for the reply
March 27, 2008 1:44:10 AM

I wish it was more informative.
March 27, 2008 1:46:16 AM

lx_flier said:
I have had GA-P35-DS3L running a q6600 at 3.7ghz @1.5v with 100% on air for a few months and then i upgraded to a 780i for sli functionality.
That's a scorcher.
March 27, 2008 2:27:23 AM

ap90033 said:
Im thinking the power supply was underspec. I couldnt find a decent review on it anywhere so that worries me, also I wonder how old is it? What effeciency is it? I did the power supply calc with their setup (or close to it) and it recommended a minimum 500 Watt Power supply. The one they used was a 550 watt and Efficiency is 72% (http://www.burnoutpc.com/modules/smartsection/item.php?...) which is 392 watts... Seems like this was a bad choice, you should try out the PC Power and Cooling 750 Quad (its rated at 40 Cel. not 25) it is a wonderful power supply...


It could have been the PSU, but a 550w PSU will always be able to deliver at least 550w, regardless of efficiency.
(Assuming it's not Faulty or Fails to meet specs.)

The Less efficient it is would meant that it would draw more from the wall.
So a 550w PSU @ 72% efficient would draw about 764watts from the wall.
March 27, 2008 2:34:58 AM

Here's a review of the PSU.

http://www.extremeoverclocking.com/reviews/cases/Sunbea...

XBITs had one as well and the reason for it's use was likely it being left-over from the review. But I figured it would not make sense to trust XBITS review for the PSU since the decision to use that PSU is in question.

Note: I have not seen much of those PSUs either before.
March 27, 2008 3:11:43 AM

Thanks for all the replies, it's been very helpful.

I'm going to go for the GA-EP35-DS3R. Seems worth it for the extra dollars.
March 27, 2008 4:08:12 AM

Zorg said:
That's a scorcher.

Hehe not really it was being cooled by a Thermalright 120 ultra with 2x yate loons the case (p182) has some good cooling so it was idle in the low 40's and loads where in the high 50's. Now i run the same q6600 at 3.6ghz on the 780i with 1.4v
March 27, 2008 5:12:59 PM

Oh... one other question: will the GA-EP35-DS3R work with a Q9450?
March 28, 2008 9:41:21 PM

BlueSun said:
Oh... one other question: will the GA-EP35-DS3R work with a Q9450?
You really should go to the website to get you information. It's easier GIGABYTE - Product - Motherboard - Overview - GA-EP35-DS3R (rev. 2.1)

Vender Model Frequency L2Cache Core Name Process Stepping Wattage FSB BIOS
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 2.66GHz 12MB Yorkfield 45nm C1 65W 1333 F2
March 30, 2008 8:53:33 PM

Thanks. I did but must be blind.

In any case, I bought the Q6600 for $199 @ Microcenter. That'll work.
a c 156 V Motherboard
March 30, 2008 9:42:25 PM

RetiredChief said:
Question? Are the pins seperate, or parallel (All 4 + pins shorted and all Gnd (Rtn) pins shorted at board. Also for the 2nd set of 4 pins to be used they must go to a deicated pin on processor.

Editted. need to do some research. Since this is +12, I gather it goes to an onboard VR prior to going to the Proc. and it seams odd that they would "knock" +12 down to 1.xx vs the 3.3 V. I'm missing something (Maybe some grey matter between ears)


I just picked up an EP35-DS3P. It has an 8 pin 12 volt connector. I looked at the back of the board and the two sets of pins are each tied together.

Standard practice seems to be 12 volts at 10 to 15 amps fed to a programmable (how else can you vary the vcore voltage?) switch mode (much more efficient than a series regulator) regulator. The memory subsystem has a similar - though more simple - scheme fed by the 3.3 volt PSU output.

For the CPU core, the higher voltage means that, for a given power level, there's less current going through the wires.
March 30, 2008 10:22:49 PM

zenmaster said:
Basically, the Power Connector going from the PSU to the Mobo actually melted/fused to the Mobo in this review.
The Other Two Mobos mentioned above use an 8-pin instead of a 4-pin connector so less power flows through each wire. There is a good chance what they saw was an anomaly, but if I was planning on extreme OCing with a Quad, I would be a little concerned.

http://xbitlabs.com/articles/mainboards/display/ga-p35-...

But maybe it was not the mainboard that caused the problem? Maybe the PSU failed workload like that? At the time of tests we didn’t have a suitable PSU at hand, so we decided to see if the abit IP35 Pro would work with the same PSU in the same mode. When trying to disassemble the testbed, we couldn’t remove the four-pin ARX12V power plug from the connector on the board. After some significant effort and additional tools, we discovered that one of the plastic pin linings melted and stuck dead to the mainboard connector.

Edit: I stand corrected about the other Gigabyte using an 8pin Power slot. Only the ABIT does appears to do so for boards in that range that I checked. I would really only be concerned if you were going to push your Q6600 really hard. (1.5v 3.6Ghz, etc... )


Wow Three Year Old Review! In computer years thats like a Decade ago lol. If this power supply is that old wouldnt is suffer from capacitor aging? When used heavily or over an extended period of time (1+ years) a power supply will slowly lose some of its initial wattage capacity. It just seems to me that it would be a Great idea to run the same test with a Power Supply that no one would question. I would love to see the results.
a b V Motherboard
April 1, 2008 3:49:39 AM

jsc said:
I just picked up an EP35-DS3P. It has an 8 pin 12 volt connector. I looked at the back of the board and the two sets of pins are each tied together.

Standard practice seems to be 12 volts at 10 to 15 amps fed to a programmable (how else can you vary the vcore voltage?) switch mode (much more efficient than a series regulator) regulator. The memory subsystem has a similar - though more simple - scheme fed by the 3.3 volt PSU output.

For the CPU core, the higher voltage means that, for a given power level, there's less current going through the wires.



JSC thanks, That Make sense
I knew that series regulator would be impractible. A switch circuit (or Pulse width modulator) using the +12 V as a source makes sense. Also explains the +12 V current requirement to MB. Thanks. With all 4 + pins tied then is just to reduce current per wire and power disipated at contact pin and also reduces IR drop at connector.
a b V Motherboard
April 1, 2008 3:54:00 AM

jsc - thanks, that makes sense.

Sorry for the double post. I didn't think My first replay was accepted.
April 1, 2008 12:10:53 PM

So what does this mean for my motherboard? P35-DS3L with 4 pin power conn... ? I have heard of many people OC with Quad Core, will this blow up? If so why are so many boards (Espeically OC "Quad Core" ones) have only 4 pins?
a b V Motherboard
April 1, 2008 2:52:47 PM

Untill you exceed the 130 W, where the 8 pin is "highly recommended", you should have no problem. The new crop of quads have a lower power requirement as compared to the old pentium D extremes.

The problem is not the wire as it is the contact resistance of the connection to the MB.

16 ga 10 A 0.008 ohms / 2 ft
14 ga 15 A 0.005 ohms / 2 ft
12 ga 20 A 0.003 ohms / 2 ft
for a 4 pin double current, halve ohms, 8 pins would be 4 X I, 1/4 R

Keep in mind this is only the 4/8 pin connector - NOT entire 12 Volt current for the MB as some comes from the 20/24 pin connector.

15 A x 12 V is 180 W

This is OK for a Pair (4 Pin ) of even 16 ga wire. Voltage loss is only 0.06 Volts and a I squared R loss of 0.9 Watts Lower for larger ga wire.

The bigger problem is the connection. This contact resistance may be 0.01 ohms ideally ( and can be higer ) This represents a voltage drop of 0.075 Volts ( 0.0375 V for 8 wire) and a I squared R drop of 0.56 per 0.56 W per contact ( for 4 wire (0.14 W per connection for 8 wire)

This contact resistance is a variable in that it depends on surface area ( not all of the surface may be in contact ) and minute dust/dirt particles, and any oxidation (which increases over time) If this contace resistance only increase to 0.05 ohms then the I squared R drop jumps to 2.8 W for a 4 wire connection - Probable enough to melt the plastic around the pin. Somewhat like placing a 1/2 W resitor in a circuit where a 2 W resistor is require - and it goes poof like Johns mustache.




April 1, 2008 7:41:44 PM

Uh in English what does this mean for me? Sounds like you are saying the Power Supply doesnt matter? Im just trying to figure out what Gigabyte is doing with so many mobo's with 4 pin knowing people are gonna get Quads and OC. Currently I have a E8400 at 3.8 but would like to know what would be safe to have and OC in the future....
a b V Motherboard
April 1, 2008 8:16:36 PM

Plain English - Unless your CPU is over 130 Watts, 4 pin is fine. Not sure what a max overed clock 8400 pulls, but I think 130 W is above it's thermal envolope.

The extra 4 pins are more a safety net primarily to prevent/reduce contact resistance at the pins. As most multirail PS (not all ) have a 20 Amp limit per rail any way.
April 1, 2008 8:19:31 PM

I have a PC Power and Cooling 750 watt. It has one rail 60 Amps.
I will have to look into the watts for the cpu...
!