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Running a bit warm

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August 30, 2008 5:19:59 PM

So I decided to squeeze the last life out of my socket 939 board and bought an AMD64 X2 4400+ off of EBay. I have now got it installed on my GA-K8NSNXP with my ASUS Silent Knight 2 (I think) cooler installed and Arctic Silver thermal paste as the contact medium. Has proved a rather effective upgrade bar one thing, temperature. Using SpeedFan I see temps in the 60+ during Battlefield 2 and after exiting it takes forever to cool down and the slightest hint of loading an app sends it back up to 50.

The case is a CM Stacker (origianal I believe) so airflow is pretty good. The only thing I can think of is to do with the orientation of the Heatsink. Anyone who has used my model of mainboard will know that the clever DPS thing merely gets in the way of installing most heatsinks. This means the ASUS fan points vertically (towards PSU) and not horizontally towards the rear 120mm fan.

So my query is are the temps I am seeing normal (ish) for what is essentially a more powerful processor than my previous 3200+? If not any hints or even recommendations of a heatsink that will fit this rather cumbersome board correctly?

Regards

Tim

More about : running bit warm

August 30, 2008 5:25:50 PM

can you take a picture of your case and with case side open showing inside.and of course CPU-Z screenshot
August 30, 2008 6:06:23 PM






Hope these help

regards

tim
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August 30, 2008 6:08:30 PM

try change the heatsink orientation if possible.because now its sucking those hot air from the graphics card.
August 30, 2008 6:12:43 PM

thats the trouble with this mobo though is that it will not fit in the horizontal direction due to the retaining bracket thing not fitting. Will the hot air from the graphics have that pronounced an impact? Any ideas for a different cooler perhaps?
August 30, 2008 6:35:12 PM

i believe so. and also the airflow in the case seems weak.
August 30, 2008 6:50:10 PM

at what temp does the cpu idle at? 60+ at load seems way too high...seems really strange...
August 30, 2008 7:49:16 PM

random exits in BF2 now. lasts longer with case open so i suppose that confirms my fear that the angle of the CPU cooler is probably to blame plus some rather untidy cabling. I did think the HD 3850 might warm it up a wee bit as well.

So does anybody know of a decent cooler that would fit in with my setup perhaps?

To answer Ahslans question it idles when switched on round about 33 degrees plus or minus a few. This struck me as being relatively acceptable though it does jump pretty quickly
August 30, 2008 7:53:57 PM

how much did you build this rig for and when?may i ask?
a c 121 K Overclocking
August 30, 2008 8:25:03 PM

I think the orientation of the cooler is contributing to the problem. A popular low cost cooler is the Xigmatek S1283 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Very well priced at $24.99 after rebate.

It wouldn't hurt to clean up the cabling either.
August 30, 2008 8:41:19 PM

well 33 idle isn't really bad...its really surprising how much it rises when under load considering how awesome that cpu looks (looked it up on newegg for more pics and it looks like a beast)...since the video card is soo close to the cooler, it looks like the cooler isnt really getting cool air (if anything, if anything its getting hot air from the video card and the psu)...sad, sad, sad...unfortunately, i think u are gonna have to replace that cooler...do u happen to have the stock cpu cooler from ur previous cpu? if you have anything else, try it...
August 30, 2008 9:18:38 PM

The cable management in the case looks like a disjointed bowl of spaghetti. You need to try and use tiedowns, clips and such to help hide some of it. The rest needs to be placed around back of the mb tray or behind the MB or, perhaps, in an empty drivebay......
Anonymous
a b K Overclocking
August 30, 2008 9:21:45 PM

GOOD TEMPS.....But the Heatsink isn't install right, even if everything is good with your system- keep an eye on it, because you never know what full-load with graphics can cause...
and one HINT- GPU- Video Card is often ran with higher temperatures
They are usually like 20.C or so....
Concider your CPU Taking all this hot air and leaving GPU with nothing
ALSO
usually Temperatures at base of computer/bottom part of Case are higher than at the TOP -part, where CPU is mounted.
Cable management is a must...
...BEST OF LUCK
a b K Overclocking
August 30, 2008 9:32:11 PM

I suggest you remove the heatsink and see if the thermal compound has properly settled, if you have too much or too little it will do something like this.

Also make sure you turn any fan speed control options in the bios off. In this case fast fan speed is a good thing. It sucks that you can not flip the heatsink, but you have to do what you have to do.

From your CPU-Z screen shot, you do NOT have speed step on, this will at least help your idle temps. turn it on in the bios then install the latest AMD cool'n'quiet driver and set your power management to minimal power management to activate it.

Last off, what PSU is that? looks kind of Ultra'ish. make sure its up to the task of your new cpu's heat going right into it.
August 31, 2008 4:57:10 PM

thanks for all the help guys. will get on to cable managment. am thinking of replacing the heat sink for this one http://www.zalman.co.kr/ENG/product/Product_Read.asp?Id... . According to the blurb it supports my motherboard which should help alleviate the problem. will also allow me to rethink my cable strategy! will save the ASUS cooler for when i can afford a newer system lol.
August 31, 2008 5:28:32 PM

cant you get something more comment known good performer?Zalman is incapable and expensive for its cooling performance.
August 31, 2008 5:42:42 PM

was was struggling to find one that is guaranteed to fit my mobo correctly and this one had a stated compatibility to fit my setup. Google searches have proved fruitless so far, i guess noone else seems to have had my luck with choices.
a b K Overclocking
August 31, 2008 7:10:20 PM

I would still recheck to make sure the heatsink is seated right and that there is no fan speed options on in the hardware monitor section of the bios. With a low TDP, you should not need too much cooling. Even my old A64 3200+ with the copper aluminum version of that heatsink(cnps7000AlCu) you mention works fine at full load all day/night long at 65% fan speed, it IS overpriced for the performance tho. Too bad a Freezer Pro would face up too.
August 31, 2008 7:13:24 PM

Xigmatek S1283 will fit, I assure you
a c 121 K Overclocking
August 31, 2008 8:35:26 PM

I would second the Xigmatek S1283, or a similar tower cooler with a rear facing 120mm fan. You want the hot cpu air to exit the case in a direct line as quickly as possible.
a c 121 K Overclocking
August 31, 2008 8:42:25 PM

I would also suggest mounting a slot cooler like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
below the vga card. They are cheap. It will draw off some of the vga heat and send it directly out the back. I have used this one, and it was effective. Get one with a speed control knob so you can balance the noise vs. cooling equation.
August 31, 2008 10:10:50 PM

oh he wont be able to have the air exit the rear with the xigy S1283, I have the same problem, amd mounts are stupid and with the way the base of the sink is designed, like all heatsinks with a base and heatpipes sticking out on 2 sides, we amd users can only place the hsf so that the air goes upwards without the purchase of whatever other kinds of custom mounts that I dont know about -.-


I have the same problem, but with my hot am2 6400+, my temps never pass 50 on full load with a fan thats crappier than the stock one (unless room temp gets close to 30C), with the newly infamous 4850 right under is, as well as a passively cooled nbridge. pic below...

http://i321.photobucket.com/albums/nn368/De_Associate/P...

I agree with what "nukemaster" said, maybe you put way to much, or way to little thermal compound, or it isn't seated properly somehow.
a b K Overclocking
August 31, 2008 11:12:49 PM

Funny thing is, the 9500(overpriced for the performance, but not a bad cooler) from zalman can be mounted ANY way since the clip can go between the pipes.
September 1, 2008 9:07:56 PM




seems better than before but still too warm for comfort. Anyone got any good websites for thermal paste application as I feel this may be where I am going wrong, especially considering the fact that its dual core, if that indeed changes anything? As you can see have a new heat sink properly orientated and tidied up my cabling. Seems to cool down a lot quicker than before after use but must admit am still concerned about hitting the 60 under load.

Thanks for all your help so far by the way. Any further suggestions greatly appreciated.

tim
September 1, 2008 9:08:49 PM

the speedfan screenshot is just after quitting BF2 by the way.
September 1, 2008 9:20:06 PM

i think to show the max temp its better to load up a stress program,games can only push the CPU to about 80% looking at the heat.
a c 121 K Overclocking
September 1, 2008 9:21:52 PM

The arctic silver web site has a nice pictorial tutorial on how to apply the paste.
Good job on cleaning up the cabling.
Are all the rear fans exhausting air, and are all the front intakes sucking air into the case?
September 1, 2008 9:30:55 PM

i think its best to remove the grill on the exhaust fan. because no wire could possible go into is and because you tidied up the cables already so they are all tied up and not moving around right? and the only thing it does is restrict the airflow and make more noise. but i can see throught the fan blade the rear have some very narrow holes that also restricts the airflow. CUT THEM OUT of you are a DIYer.
September 1, 2008 9:34:05 PM



70 is certainly too high. will reapply thermal paste tomorrow after work and see if i can eek out a drop in temp. thanks again guys. until tomorrow....
a b K Overclocking
September 1, 2008 9:37:41 PM

how fast is the fan spinning?
September 2, 2008 2:20:45 PM

Fan is spinning at roughly 2500rpm as far as i can ascertain. going to reapply the thermal paste and see if that helps out a little bit, may have put too much on again.
September 3, 2008 12:06:19 PM

that 70C is very hot TBH but keep improving the optimisation.
September 3, 2008 8:37:52 PM

well its down to 55 in BF2, 60 under 100%. Hoping after the burn in of the thermal paste it might be a bit cooler. have reached the limit though of my ability to effect change on the temp. cables are tidied, airflow improved, heatsink changed and paste reapplied (with more knowledge this time!). might just have to accept warmer temps. Unless of course there is a something else that may be tried to help lower them?

Thanks again for all your help

tim
September 3, 2008 11:45:20 PM

even after the thermal paste have burn in there wont be drop of more then a degree or two but it is still something.

can you lower the Vcore more?it will drop temp dramatically.
September 4, 2008 12:06:21 AM

Aye suppose I could lower the VCore. My question though is how damaging is running above the max temp of 55-72 going to be? I understand that the hotter a processor runs then the shorter its life span might be. So will running at around 55 during gaming, more likely than the 100% scenario of stress tests, result in dramatically different CPU life or can I forge on with my current setup?

Another user on these forums was asking about his dual core CPU setup which had differnt core temps. Is there a more optimal way to apply thermal paste than the traditional blob in the centre method when dealing with an AMD64 X2?
September 4, 2008 12:11:05 AM

the whole point of stress testing is to see what condition the processor will be in in the worse scenario. so you will need to find lower then 70C load temp and a lowest possible stable vcore so even when you do use a application that takes 100% out of the CPU you are comfortable that your CPU will not be working in extreme dangerous temperature.

it really depend on what cooler and CPU you use. bu tin your case its fine as long as there is right ammount of pressure on the cooler which will try to make best contact with the CPU and push out excess thermal paste.
a b K Overclocking
September 4, 2008 12:58:41 AM

I think under 60 should be safe, I have had my A64 3200+ up there on hot days. as we speak its at 53c(undervolted from 1.5 to 1.4) 100% load folding. If i clean the fan it will drop by about 5c.

Undervolting gave me about 6c cooler at load, but I can not give an exact number since this machine does server(full cpu load, but no video load)/PVR duties not games any more.
September 4, 2008 12:21:34 PM

so a little bit of delving in the BIOS showed that it had been set to a VCore of 1.45. Must have been left over from previous chip, doh. Still throttled it back to 1.35 and am experiencing much better temps. my only quandry is the VCore2 shown in Speedfan as 2.61V!!!! CPU-Z only shows a core voltage of about 1.35. Is this normal or is there perhaps a different voltage setting for each core in BIOS that I might have missed?
September 4, 2008 5:07:41 PM

well everything seems to be running a whole lot sweeter now. Still unsure about the VCore 2 reading but every other temp sensor seems to be running smoothly. Replacing the GPU cooler with the Zalman off of my old X850 seems to have also help keep temps a touch more manageable. Thanks again to everyone who chipped in with advice, really appreciate it.

Tim
a b K Overclocking
September 4, 2008 9:30:31 PM

2.6 sounds like slightly over-volted memory(normal on a performance board). Check the bios hardware monitor.
September 5, 2008 2:18:45 AM

Will do. All in all, with everyones help here I feel I have a decent setup now. With a bit of FSB OC I might even make my upgrade last longer lol. Thanks again.

!