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No Apple forum section and I'll leave this negative anti Apple site.

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March 6, 2008 11:35:43 PM

First of all I would like to appoligize for my bad English.

There is nowhere where this thread really belongs or gets enough attention so I'll just post it here. Srry for that. Let's see how long it last hehe as it's not really in favour of the anti Apple people.
Many people (me included) love this site for what it brings when it comes to hardware benchmarks and certain other reviews.
This opinion has changed for me in the past year as Tomshardware is constantly bashing Apple all the way while I don't see any reason why. There are postive things as well?
Like Vista is great all the way? Don't make me laugh, ever asked yourself why you never hear anything about this anymore? I wonder why, $$$? If this money story is true than how reliable are reviews on this site afterall if money is involved?
Don't start please, I don't even know for sure if this is the case but I just find the way Tomshardware is posting too much anti Apple news bad (non professional) enough allready. They don't provide an oppertunity for people who own MACS to discuss this on their Forum as they are the ones who can provide the real facts am I wrong? In my eyes this is so lame and weak. There are no words for it.
I don't own an Apple machine but still I know people who do. I've been learning to know how Apple machines work and they really are far from negative. Sure their are negative points too. But you never hear the positive side of the story on this site.
On of those is that you won't have any problems with virusses, spyware, trojans and stuff like that cause everything installed on the OS needs a password authorisation. Only when you install bad warez appz etc but that's your own mistake. Personally I think this is a great security feature that you don't hear people from Tomshardware talk about.
I really don't know why this site is so negative all the way for Apple people. Am I now an Apple fanboy too for talking like this?
I own XP and I'm having a great time with this OS so I don't understand why I should be a fanboy for the people who assume I am?

What I really want on this site is a MAC OSX forum...if it does not come here Tomshardware should not even start posting negative stuff about MAC OSX while they own a Linux forum section that is family of MAC OSX.

For the people who want to start telling that MAC OSX doesn't support gaming well guess what...this is about to change. In the past Apple told fake stories making false promises that I really think were lame but near future games like for example games running on the new ID Software (the lead founder of new technoligy in games like for example lightning) ID tech 5 engine's game called Rage. Be fair...does this game look ugly to you when you visit preview sites? It's not having lag problems or what so ever.

ps: If this anti Apple stuff is proceeding in this negative way not even allowing MAC owners to discuss the problems and finding solutions for it I'm leaving this site which was my n1 site for over 8 years behind me and move over to Anandtech.com.


a b à CPUs
March 6, 2008 11:39:32 PM

so long
March 7, 2008 12:25:27 AM

Good luck upgrading your graphics card in three years to play all the new games that run on Macs.
Related resources
March 7, 2008 12:32:07 AM

Grimble Crumble said:
Good luck upgrading your graphics card in three years to play all the new games that run on Macs.


Seriously. Do companies really make games for macs? Heck, for that matter, do many companies make that many programs for macs?
March 7, 2008 12:34:33 AM

SyPheR said:
First of all I would like to appoligize for my bad English.

There is nowhere where this thread really belongs or gets enough attention so I'll just post it here. Srry for that. Let's see how long it last hehe as it's not really in favour of the anti Apple people.
Many people (me included) love this site for what it brings when it comes to hardware benchmarks and certain other reviews.
This opinion has changed for me in the past year as Tomshardware is constantly bashing Apple all the way while I don't see any reason why. There are postive things as well?
Like Vista is great all the way? Don't make me laugh, ever asked yourself why you never hear anything about this anymore? I wonder why, $$$? If this money story is true than how reliable are reviews on this site afterall if money is involved?
Don't start please, I don't even know for sure if this is the case but I just find the way Tomshardware is posting too much anti Apple news bad (non professional) enough allready. They don't provide an oppertunity for people who own MACS to discuss this on their Forum as they are the ones who can provide the real facts am I wrong? In my eyes this is so lame and weak. There are no words for it.
I don't own an Apple machine but still I know people who do. I've been learning to know how Apple machines work and they really are far from negative. Sure their are negative points too. But you never hear the positive side of the story on this site.
On of those is that you won't have any problems with virusses, spyware, trojans and stuff like that cause everything installed on the OS needs a password authorisation. Only when you install bad warez appz etc but that's your own mistake. Personally I think this is a great security feature that you don't hear people from Tomshardware talk about.
I really don't know why this site is so negative all the way for Apple people. Am I now an Apple fanboy too for talking like this?
I own XP and I'm having a great time with this OS so I don't understand why I should be a fanboy for the people who assume I am?

What I really want on this site is a MAC OSX forum...if it does not come here Tomshardware should not even start posting negative stuff about MAC OSX while they own a Linux forum section that is family of MAC OSX.

For the people who want to start telling that MAC OSX doesn't support gaming well guess what...this is about to change. In the past Apple told fake stories making false promises that I really think were lame but near future games like for example games running on the new ID Software (the lead founder of new technoligy in games like for example lightning) ID tech 5 engine's game called Rage. Be fair...does this game look ugly to you when you visit preview sites? It's not having lag problems or what so ever.

ps: If this anti Apple stuff is proceeding in this negative way not even allowing MAC owners to discuss the problems and finding solutions for it I'm leaving this site which was my n1 site for over 8 years behind me and move over to Anandtech.com.


So long farewell avita say goodbye......... :hello: 
a c 122 à CPUs
March 7, 2008 12:38:52 AM

Um Mac OSX is actually based off of Linux and the last time THG "bashed" Apple was for good reason. The base Mac Pro model comes with such low end hardware, i.e. 7300GT's, that is laughable considering you could build a much more powerful PC for the price of $2500.

The 7300GT's are not even made for video editing. Sure you could upgrade the Mac Pro but then the cost starts to go up and up and up.

Now I have no problems with Macs except that Apple puts them up on a all "high and mighty" peadistool stating they are so great and PC's are horrible blah blah blah. In fact its funny that Macs now use PC hardware. Hmmm.... Makes ya wounder.

Sure gaming may start to move a bit to Macs but it will not take off until it actually has a larger user base. With the current gaming user base on Mac, the companies would lose money making a Mac version of the game.

Don't start to knock Vista. Have you used it? Have you built a PC and put it on your own PC? If not you cannot say anything. I am using Vista right now and guess what? I have no problems, my PC is not slow and its got so many safter features I have yet to have a virus, spyware or anything. And I just got Windows Live One Care for anti-virus but had it for 5 months without anti-virus software.

Look at the forums now. The main one here is the CPU forums while the rest have very little activity. Macs wouldn't have enough users to even post enough to support a forum. If you want a Mac forum go to another site but until the user base is large enough Macs will never have as much as PC. BTW if Mac gets big enough don't think it will be virus free. The reason PC has so many viruses is due to the larger user base and plus the anti-virus companies produce the majority of viruses to make sales.

Here is something for ya before you go too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRffzqVtFT4

Still love that one haha!!!
March 7, 2008 12:51:30 AM

I'll try to be as fair as I can here, but having used macs at college I can say with firsthand knowledge that they are worse than a PC, maybe you don't get viruses and spyware, and that's because no one codes for that 5% or so that use macs, not because som über password protection that would be bypassed in a month by a skilled cracker.

Also, a lot of people bash vista because it ask for permission a lot, and apple implements a password protection, a lot bigger of a hassle, but because steve jobs says so it's not annoying, think about it, I personally install and uninstall about 3~5 programs everyday, I don't know about you.

Wow, I suddenly remembered something, I am a gamer, I own a 8800GT and I OC'ed it, just as I OC'ed my CPU too, can I do that in a mac? Can I play gears of war in a mac? How about Crysis? Stranglehold? Well, I guess mac chess should have to do it right? The board'll sure look great with those DX10 effects, oh wait...

Then I feel I need an upgrade, and best bang for the buck is adding more ram, oops, not quite, as something as simple as a ram stick gets a hefty price increase because it has a sticker with the shape of an apple in it.

Well, let's try to enchance my productivity with a bigger screen monitor, let's look at the list: expensive: check; faulty: check; the company takes no action or responsability, all ready to go.

And in a year when my mouse and or keyboard gets old and fails I'll have to look for yet another one-button mouse and a regular keyboard, with the price increase and the apple-shaped sticker of course.

So yhea, OSX is great, runs circles around vista and linux, has no virus hackers or spyware and runs all the current games with ease...

Now I'll rant you a little, Macs are just for work, at an office, their best use is word processing or web surfing, if you feel tempted to mention video encoding or image rendering I'll dare you to a CPU upgrade and ram addition, but you'll probably bail out of my dare.

Did I just say macs are just for work? Sorry my bad, macs are also for losers that can't put together and configure a windows based PC, so they just buy the whole "It just works" crap.

And on a sidenote, the coding for Windows is far more difficult than that for macOS or Linux because it has to be compatable with a huge array of different hardware configurations (probably infinite combinations) while the macs fore you to use their own overpriced standard and linux forces you (or others) to code specific compatable drivers for your hardware.

Finally, go check any specialized security site and you'll see that mac OSX and linux aren't all that good in security related matters.

PD: I hope you don't get any hard feelings about this, I do not intend to descredit you as a person in any way, I'm just merely expressing my opinion based in my experience and some trusted news sources (about the displays) about macs, their hardware and their software.

Also I concede Macs OS's look good and always had, but so does vista and I don't care for that in any OS

Since we're adding videos now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjpn3L3bSJQ
March 7, 2008 12:53:16 AM

Mac games is an odd concept right now for me to grasp because most of the games produced use direct X. Moreover, most of the hardware for rendering these games is based on direct X. I don't program so I don't know, but isn't making a game in open GL more complicated (expensive)?
a c 122 à CPUs
March 7, 2008 12:59:35 AM

I read about the monitors failing on Apples site SirCrono. Was sad really. And remember when Safari was released for Windows? Had more holes that IE5. And thats saying something.

And I love how Mac state you don't have to upgrade for the newer OSX. Well sad thing is ya do and OSX also cost money.

Here is a nice video too. Love it as well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43xnWl3Dc1M
March 7, 2008 1:05:14 AM

Did you ask if a mac section could be added? No? Well then quit whining. It took quite a bit of bugging to add the Vista section added before it was released.

BTW mac discussions can go here right next to the Dells HPs, and other prebuilt boxes.
a c 110 à CPUs
March 7, 2008 1:24:16 AM

Toms bashed Vista just as much. ask and maybe you will get a mac section. The only thing you have to realize is that if you want Mac help(from the commercials mac's never need no help, Its just all those damn pc's crying them selves to sleep mode that need help) you may be better with a mac forum anyway since there are less mac users here.
March 7, 2008 1:27:55 AM

Glad that guy is gone, didnt know anyone could whine so much and I am a married man!
March 7, 2008 1:28:42 AM

jimmysmitty said:
Um Mac OSX is actually based off of Linux


Only if you consider BSD to be Linux.

As for software, most of my 'professional' software (video editing, effects, etc) supports Macs as well as Windows; I seriously considered getting a Mac rather than a PC for my next computer, and games were the primary reason why I couldn't do that.
March 7, 2008 1:39:46 AM

I don't understand the Mac-bashing either. It is too different to compare to a PC. Surely it's not meant as a hardcore game system, which the majority of arguments against it appear to be based.

There's no difference upgrading RAM on Mac or PC; many configure Mac Pros with only 1GB RAM and add the rest manually. LCD monitors fail at accelerated rates compared to CRTs whether made by Apple or Samsung or Viewsonic. Apple has a two-button (actually 4-button) mouse as well as one-button ones.

The main differences are price, software environment, and hardware integration/design. But lots of people can afford the price and do so for the latter reasons.
March 7, 2008 1:43:08 AM

Frankly a mac is a bad purchase. They're always over priced for the hardware you get by between $500-$1000... so that leaves what? Software? Well all the creativity software they're praised for is available on both formats... hell the most talented modern artists use windows systems and software (go dig through deviant art, those are the people with the big commissions and they're using XP). When you look at the parts involved now all apple is providing is overpriced Dells, and considering dell's are already over priced that isn't very impressive... and if you really need to use apple software save some money and just install their os on a pc system.
March 7, 2008 1:53:52 AM

SyPheR said:
ps: If this anti Apple stuff is proceeding in this negative way not even allowing MAC owners to discuss the problems and finding solutions for it I'm leaving this site which was my n1 site for over 8 years behind me and move over to Anandtech.com.


Too bad there's not many Mac guys in here.
I would like to laugh at them as I am laughing at you.
After reading all of the negative comments about Macs, I, definetly will not buy one.
If you're really leavng this forum then.
Bye, Adios, et al.
March 7, 2008 1:56:37 AM

WR said:
I don't understand the Mac-bashing either. It is too different to compare to a PC. Surely it's not meant as a hardcore game system, which the majority of arguments against it appear to be based.

There's no difference upgrading RAM on Mac or PC; many configure Mac Pros with only 1GB RAM and add the rest manually. LCD monitors fail at accelerated rates compared to CRTs whether made by Apple or Samsung or Viewsonic. Apple has a two-button (actually 4-button) mouse as well as one-button ones.

The main differences are price, software environment, and hardware integration/design. But lots of people can afford the price and do so for the latter reasons.


There is a difference when upgrading a macintrash. They have a very, very, very, very ,very select qvl for parts. I stand a really good chance of buying any DDR2 chip and slapping it into any MoBo that supports DDR2 chips. Not so much with macs. As for the gaming. I think it highlights one deficiency. No one programs for macs. The main differences you point out. Price... Um.. yea... I don't have to go there. Software environment...? OS or software available? Either way, they hold no advantage. Hardware integration... Hmmm... I really don't see some magical advantage here. The only argument that could be made here is that there is some lack of Vista drivers. that is getting old, though and most manufacturers have caught up well with drivers.
a c 122 à CPUs
March 7, 2008 1:57:55 AM

MarkG said:
Only if you consider BSD to be Linux.

As for software, most of my 'professional' software (video editing, effects, etc) supports Macs as well as Windows; I seriously considered getting a Mac rather than a PC for my next computer, and games were the primary reason why I couldn't do that.


The main difference is the $2500 you would pay for a Mac would get you an awesome PC. :kaola: 

WR said:
I don't understand the Mac-bashing either. It is too different to compare to a PC. Surely it's not meant as a hardcore game system, which the majority of arguments against it appear to be based.

There's no difference upgrading RAM on Mac or PC; many configure Mac Pros with only 1GB RAM and add the rest manually. LCD monitors fail at accelerated rates compared to CRTs whether made by Apple or Samsung or Viewsonic. Apple has a two-button (actually 4-button) mouse as well as one-button ones.

The main differences are price, software environment, and hardware integration/design. But lots of people can afford the price and do so for the latter reasons.


The Mac "bashing" had nothing to do with PCs. What THG was talking about was the price you paid vs the hardware you were getting, which to tell you the truth is not that great when you think of the hardware costs. They never once compared it to a PC. Apple is the one comparing themselves to a PC.

And LAN_deRf_HA, you are not paying for the software but the shinny bitten Apple symbol.
March 7, 2008 2:01:16 AM

I don't see why people hate Macs so much. I personally would never buy one for a desktop, because the cost is more then what I can build myself and I like to customize my desktop hardware for gaming, which is another thing OS X falls down in. However, from a laptop perspective, the Macbook is very closely priced to a similarly configured 13.3" laptops, like the Dell XPS M1330. Sure, you can't game on a Macbook, but from a laptop perspective, gaming and portability don't seem to go together, so that issue isn't as big. As for laptop hardware, I don't really care as much about upgrading it, so the other major issue people have with Mac desktops is moot.
March 7, 2008 2:11:30 AM

Gravemind does have a good point. When considering laptops, apple does decrease the degree to which they are inferior to PC's by quite a lot. Still a lot of ground to go though.
March 7, 2008 2:22:44 AM

I agree, Apple needs their own subforum here.

I disagree, Apples will not be gaming platforms for the next two years.
March 7, 2008 2:31:39 AM

hairycat101 said:
Gravemind does have a good point. When considering laptops, apple does decrease the degree to which they are inferior to PC's by quite a lot. Still a lot of ground to go though.


I'd disagree that they have ground to gain, having used a couple of Macbooks from friends and a Macbook Pro that a friend has also, none of them have any complaints and with the ability install Windows on them now, you can restart if you want to do something that requires you to have Windows. I'd say the laptops have caught up to the rest, but the desktops are still lacking for someone who likes to customize their computer.
March 7, 2008 2:44:19 AM

Ok. You don't see that having to buy a completely seperate OS is a minus? As far as portability, Apple does have some superior products. Provided that all you want to do is office-type apps, the mac OS is sufficient. The cost for that portability, however, can be pretty steep. I am typing right now from a 450 dollar Yonah core (T2080) laptop. I have a 15.4" screen and over 2 hours of battery life. I can do office apps pretty darn well. Price/performance/portability wise... I don't think macintrash could aprouch this.
March 7, 2008 2:56:35 AM

Leaving eh?
Good.
We don't serve their kind here! (Star Wars reference for you n00bs out there)

Lets see, a PC can do everything a MAC can and More (Games).

My Calculus Prof cannot give us the online homework since he does not have access to a windows PC. Mymathlab only supports IE6 and windows. Good for me cause I hate mymathlab.

If I want a bigger monitor, I could spend $300 to replace my 19" with a bigger one. With a MAC I have to buy a WHOLE NEW SYSTEM. The Overpriced MAC pro, doesn't even come with one, at least Dell, and other companies offer monitors (LCD ones too) included in the price.

I do not have antivirus currently, and have not had it since Jan 2007. I have not had a single virus or worm. Nor do I get spyware (I use firefox). I don't go to places where I am likely to get a virus/spyware.

MACs are for the retards who constantly go to those places and would kill a windows computer by doing so.

This is a hardware site, we have no need for MAC since it is so damn hard to add hardware.

I just bought a Dell Vostro 1400, it is light (5.5Lbs), small (14.1" widescreen w/ truelife), and it didn't break the bank (unlike the macbooks).
I paid $580.
14.1" widescreen w/ truelife
Core 2 Duo T5270 1.4 Ghz - could have been faster, but I don't need that kind of performance on my notebook.
2GB DDR2
160GB 5400rpm HD
Intel B/G wireless.
Intel x3100 graphics - not gaming so not an issue.
internal Bluetooth
integrated sound (actually pretty damn good for a notebook)
Dual boot of XP Pro and Ubuntu 7.1 Linux

I get about 3 hours of battery life with the six cell battery

I configured a Dell Vostro 1400 to the same specs as the macbook.
Dell:
2Ghz C2D
2GB ddr2
250GB HD
Intel wireless N
Bluetooth
Intel X3100 graphics
XP home
DVD burner
integrated camera
integrated sound
9 Cell battery(only choice)

Price: $1,110
Instant Savings: $310
Grand Total: $800

Same system at apple only with OSX and smaller screen (13.3 inch)
2.1GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
2GB 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1GB
250GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm
Combo Drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW)
Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
AirPort Extreme Card & Bluetooth

Total: $1350


Thats a difference of $550.
And to think that Apple is shafting their customers by not letting them burn DVDs, or have the option to upgrade their video card before they buy it. For $100 more, The Dell can have an 8400 GS.

Yea, Apple really loves their customers by not allowing them to upgrade or fully configure a notebook.
March 7, 2008 3:02:55 AM

You know, it's not that I dislike Macs... it's just that I just don't care.
If you love your desktop and doing cool things switching between your MP3 player, Spreadsheet, BASH shell, and Word Processor with floating windows, I'm sure a Mac is cool as can be. I don't necessarily do that all day long (well, maybe 10-12 hours out of the day). If that's all I did, I would own a Mac. I want choices - and I want the latest graphics cards, CPUs, and memory. With Apple I don't get that choice.
What strikes me odd about Apple is how the Open-Source crowd goes crazy over Mac - a monolithic closed-source closed-hardware platform. I guess its all in the marketing and presentation.

I'm waiting for Microsoft to just buy Sun Microsystems - they already seem to be in bed together with some of the latest Sun products pushing Microsoft - then Microsoft can take on Apple with their own closed hardware platform.
March 7, 2008 3:17:28 AM

i like macs. they are compact enough to fit in my garbage can
March 7, 2008 3:27:10 AM

Macs look cool and all, but they are slow...really slow, and they smell bad.
March 7, 2008 3:55:05 AM

You guys made his point, most of the arguments and points are pretty much moot now since the hardware's the same. Buy a base mac pro from Apple, buy all the upgrades elsewhere since it's the same, and run XP. Still at a premium price.

CPU upgrades? RAM upgrades?
Come on, at least know what you're criticizing.
March 7, 2008 4:12:55 AM

Apple - it's all smoke and mirrors marketing BS. It can even run XP or Vista - at it's core, its just another "uncool" PC.
Slap a cheap-looking retro-cheap-cool bezel Apple logo on it, ultra-nerdo PC becomes instanta-COOL MAC!! Now you can run our closed-sourse OS on your close-hardware platform, that lets your sync to your similar closed-platform DRM-happy MP3 player, and closed-platform Iphone, while flipping through floating 3D representations of your running applications. Oh yeah, and Steve Jobs used to have semi-long hair, so it HAS to be cool!!!!
OK, maybe I do care.

March 7, 2008 4:24:38 AM

Man, I am telling you from the perspective of a computer tech who has always worked on PC's, Macs are not that bad. I should know because in my job I mostly work with Macs and carry a Mac laptop. Would I use a Mac for my main desktop? No, like my games too much, if I had kids, I'd definitely consider a Mac for all the parental controls and what not the new Leopard OS offers. One thing you do have to appreciate about Macs are the longevity, we still have iBook G4 laptops floating that are still quite capable. I think in some ways, Macs age better than PC's, that said, they are not as upgradeable, and they are more expensive. You guys who have an attitude that Macs are trash are wrong though. I've worked with PC's for about 10 years, so I've been on both sides of the spectrum. And for your average home user, a Mac is great, will do everything an average home user wanting to do word processing, internet, email, etc. wants to do. That's what they are geared for, and a certain level of cool. They accomplish that. Don't say they are rubbish. Also, for a school district, they are easier to administrate b/c not as many people trying to write viruses and junk for them. I've been on both sides, and for what they are, they are good machines. But that said, I'll still probably always have a PC along with the Macs.
March 7, 2008 4:55:03 AM

The points made against the mac are pretty solid... don't waste time trying to justify their unjustifiable price... for whats truly just another pc supplier with showing marketing.
March 7, 2008 5:06:02 AM

ryanthesav said:
Macs look cool and all, but they are slow...really slow, and they smell bad.


Hahahahaha! Thank you. You've just made my day. Thank you oh so very much. :D 
March 7, 2008 5:09:46 AM

I'm still waiting for the Sun-Microsoft merger to compete with Apple. For years the Sun business model has been compared to Apple. Once Ballmer gets bored-with/acquires Yahoo, Sun Microsystems seems ripe for the pickins'. Makes sense, actually a Sun acquisition may make more sense than Yahoo - Google is a paper tiger and over-valued to boot - after a nasty Java/J++ battle, Sun and M$ are making up, even pushing each-other's technologies.
Mark my word. You read it here first... :D 
March 7, 2008 5:24:26 AM

Sypher,

All you really need to do is ask how many of the retards that posted a response about gaming and MacPro's -- Do they actually own a current MacPro and game with it? You'll clear out 90% of your responses -- unless they're suggesting a nVidia 8800GT is a bad card for gaming?

Most of the folks posting a stupid response probably didn't even know a MacPro has an 8800GT with a real 64bit ROM, even less know they have 8 CPUs. Even fewer know that OpenGL was around a LONG time before DirectX and that was THE graphics API at the time on both PC and Mac.


Alpine, you are so stuipd I don't even know where to start -- let me see Mac's are made with Intel CPUs on Intel motherboards and run Bootcamp with runs Vista x64 x86 WinXP and WinXP 64bit and Windows Server flavors including Windows Server 2008 -- oh wait, that's right I'm really not running Vista x64 on my MacPro along with OSX -- maybe I need to post a video on my web site showing you, cause clearly you are talking out of your ass and don't even have a ****' Mac.

Anyway, Sypher, with the current reduction in PC Gaming titles due to the complete domination of consoles, Tom's really should start getting serious about gaming on the MacPro. Afterall it is another PC.

Oh and Sypher, just wait for all silly arguement about MacPro price vs. PC, they're really funny.

My all time favorite is that there are over 880 Million PC's and Microsoft claiming Vista a success with 60 Million licenses sold after 18 months since it RTM. Microsoft calls this a success!! ha, ha, ha, ha.

The Mac ignorance at Tom's is just unreal, where do you turds come up with these reponses? Open your ****' minds and just take 10 seconds to at the very least look up a MacPro on Apples web site before you post complete drivel!
March 7, 2008 5:49:47 AM

V8VENOM said:
you are so stuipd I don't even know where to start


Alpine may have lacked finesse, but even so it was more true to the point than your post. All you've stated is commonly known, but its truly irrelevant to the major argument. What possible justification is there for paying 50% more for something because it has some silly logo slapped on it?

For the record.... I routinely look at mac products on the apple site, and I'm routinely unimpressed with their options and price performance ratio. On a more direct-issue note... your brain seems defective, to put it kindly. You're like the apple equivalent of a fox news fan.
March 7, 2008 6:15:55 AM

V8VENOM said:
Most of the folks posting a stupid response probably didn't even know a MacPro has an 8800GT with a real 64bit ROM, even less know they have 8 CPUs.


Quote:
Apple Mac Pro 8-Core Workstation - 2 Quad-Core 3.0GHz Intel Xeon Processors, 2GB RAM, 320GB HD, ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT & 16x SuperDrive Z0EM-3.0GHZ


$3,589.00

Quote:
Apple Mac Pro 8-Core Workstation - 2 Quad-Core 3.0GHz Intel Xeon Processors, 4GB RAM, 500GB HD, ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT & 16x SuperDrive Z0EM-3GB4GB500GB


$4,194.00

Not even sure if I wanna see the price that has an 8800GT on it, and not be able to play any of todays games and have to wait for apple to encode it to run. After seeing that.. I think I'd rather go for a skulltrail system. :lol: . o O (NOT!)
a b à CPUs
March 7, 2008 6:52:56 AM

This is a hardware website, tomsHARDWARE. If you have even a remote interest in hardware (changing, upgrading, OCing), you don't buy a mac!
March 7, 2008 7:21:38 AM

Most MacAttacks are second rate hamburgers.

Oh hang on a second that is what we are talking about, a Mac Attack with a second rate hamburger dressed up in poofie gear at an expensive price as a computer.
March 7, 2008 7:34:33 AM

hairycat101 said:
Seriously. Do companies really make games for macs? Heck, for that matter, do many companies make that many programs for macs?

hmmmmm now if you had anything to back up that comment then maybe you would be within your rights to suggest that. Now coming from a preson taht has probably never even used a mac/worked with a mac that sort of statement would be expected but for those that aren't as ignorant as you are would understand that macs are built for professionals and always have been......now for the lack of programs which you speak of.... well lets just say that pretty much everynody uses a mac in the music industry/media and in architecture lol I could go on.
perhaps if you spent time actually looking at the apparent absence of mac programs instead of bashing apple/macs then perhaps you would understand why so many software companies and pros use apple. For example, my first ever mac an i mac from 2001 has been running for 7http://img.tomshardware.com/forum/uk/icones/message/ico...
http://img.tomshardware.com/forum/uk/icones/message/ico... years now, and not once has it ever failed me/crashed or bsod on me..........
And i agree! that toms hardware do not support apple/osx and any article i have every read on thg has always had a snide comment and always bashed macs/apple in anyway possible so would those who have never used a mac please be quiet and go educate yourself in the ways of Unix/non ms controlled sh*t god damn i hate how almost everybody is so ignorant and stupid..... :fou:  :pfff: 
March 7, 2008 7:36:16 AM

Bloody hell did I read some **** up there ^^
Quiet funny to see the narrow-minded Apple haters up there! :lol: 
I own both a Mac (as you can see in my sig) and a PC (once again, in my sig) and they're easily teh best of both worlds.
I can keep my PC crap free and I use my PB all the time to surf the web and dabble in CS3 etc.
Some of you really need to try before you bash....
Oh and that article by Tom's was ****, they were using all last-gen hardware. The new MacBook Pro has a 45nm Core2Duo and the new Mac Pro doesn't come with a 7300GT, and is 8-core unless you spec a quad.:) 
March 7, 2008 7:40:45 AM

if you are referring to my post..........
March 7, 2008 8:56:54 AM

HarveyW said:
if you are referring to my post..........

Sorry, no I meant on page 1!
You posted while I was typing!
No offence there chap. :D 
March 7, 2008 10:30:10 AM

ok no problem nice to meet someone that also has a powerbook =]
March 7, 2008 10:33:33 AM

HarveyW said:
ok no problem nice to meet someone that also has a powerbook =]

One of the few on here I bet! :D 
March 7, 2008 11:11:29 AM

As already said, this site is for hardware enthusiasts, overclockers and gamers, people who change out, tweak, and push there hardware beyond what its rated to do. Not something that can be done with Apple hardware.

I say Apple gets a forum when they open OSX to all hardware, till then, too bad.
March 7, 2008 11:17:57 AM

Wouldn't an Apple forum be proprietary like everything else involved with Apple?
March 7, 2008 11:32:46 AM

physx7 said:
So long farewell avita say goodbye......... :hello: 

Seriously?
Who's avita?
So long ... farewell ... auf wiedersehen (German for "goodbye") goodbye :kaola: 

The rediculous things you know because you were in show choir in high school. :lol: 
March 7, 2008 11:42:57 AM

HarveyW said:
hmmmmm now if you had anything to back up that comment then maybe you would be within your rights to suggest that. Now coming from a preson taht has probably never even used a mac/worked with a mac that sort of statement would be expected but for those that aren't as ignorant as you are would understand that macs are built for professionals and always have been......now for the lack of programs which you speak of.... well lets just say that pretty much everynody uses a mac in the music industry/media and in architecture lol I could go on.
perhaps if you spent time actually looking at the apparent absence of mac programs instead of bashing apple/macs then perhaps you would understand why so many software companies and pros use apple. For example, my first ever mac an i mac from 2001 has been running for 7http://img.tomshardware.com/forum/uk/icones/message/ico...
http://img.tomshardware.com/forum/uk/icones/message/ico... years now, and not once has it ever failed me/crashed or bsod on me..........
And i agree! that toms hardware do not support apple/osx and any article i have every read on thg has always had a snide comment and always bashed macs/apple in anyway possible so would those who have never used a mac please be quiet and go educate yourself in the ways of Unix/non ms controlled sh*t god damn i hate how almost everybody is so ignorant and stupid..... :fou:  :pfff: 


Is this an attemp to be dumber then you were born to be? I know that there are/is some profesional software out there for macs. There is also profesional software for PC's. The idea here is that there is more software for PC's. PC's can do anything a macintrash can do. As far as architecture goes, most CAD users I know (and I know a lot because I do CAD for a living) use a PC. I think the reason most of us use a PC is because a lot of people change out there workstations anually and the cost of doing so with a mac would be pretty bad. Anyways, beyond (but still including) the profesional software that is out there, there is a lot more that is developed for PC. FACT. The reason for this is because there are more PC's out there and thus a bigger market.

Someone else made the dumb comment about GL being older then direct X. OK... Yea... Are you hoping for some prize for such insight? The point about direct X and GL is that TODAY hardware and software is developed for DX. I think ID has some recent/current games with GL api's but most are DX. That said, WTheck would a 8800 in a mac get you but a really expensive mac where you would still need someone else's OS to take advantage of such hardware.

Ok. Some other fools were talking about upgrading like that has become no deal at all because so much is shared. No... Again, I would have to ask if some of you are trying to be dumber then you really are. The QVL is so, so, so, so small for macs. And the price for those very similar/possibly the same parts is a lot more expensive because it carries the biten apple logo on it. So yea... its kinda upgradable, but really expensive if you do and Apple probably really wants their own techs to do it.
March 7, 2008 11:57:33 AM

I'm lost here...
the difference between a mac and PC is?
well PC can run MAC OS, macs can run windows.
So what is the difference.
It is just another brand name like Dell, or Gateway now
March 7, 2008 12:08:34 PM

SyPheR said:
First of all I would like to appoligize for my bad English.

There is nowhere where this thread really belongs or gets enough attention so I'll just post it here. Srry for that. Let's see how long it last hehe as it's not really in favour of the anti Apple people.
Many people (me included) love this site for what it brings when it comes to hardware benchmarks and certain other reviews.
This opinion has changed for me in the past year as Tomshardware is constantly bashing Apple all the way while I don't see any reason why. There are postive things as well?
Like Vista is great all the way? Don't make me laugh, ever asked yourself why you never hear anything about this anymore? I wonder why, $$$? If this money story is true than how reliable are reviews on this site afterall if money is involved?
Don't start please, I don't even know for sure if this is the case but I just find the way Tomshardware is posting too much anti Apple news bad (non professional) enough allready. They don't provide an oppertunity for people who own MACS to discuss this on their Forum as they are the ones who can provide the real facts am I wrong? In my eyes this is so lame and weak. There are no words for it.
I don't own an Apple machine but still I know people who do. I've been learning to know how Apple machines work and they really are far from negative. Sure their are negative points too. But you never hear the positive side of the story on this site.
On of those is that you won't have any problems with virusses, spyware, trojans and stuff like that cause everything installed on the OS needs a password authorisation. Only when you install bad warez appz etc but that's your own mistake. Personally I think this is a great security feature that you don't hear people from Tomshardware talk about.
I really don't know why this site is so negative all the way for Apple people. Am I now an Apple fanboy too for talking like this?
I own XP and I'm having a great time with this OS so I don't understand why I should be a fanboy for the people who assume I am?

What I really want on this site is a MAC OSX forum...if it does not come here Tomshardware should not even start posting negative stuff about MAC OSX while they own a Linux forum section that is family of MAC OSX.

For the people who want to start telling that MAC OSX doesn't support gaming well guess what...this is about to change. In the past Apple told fake stories making false promises that I really think were lame but near future games like for example games running on the new ID Software (the lead founder of new technoligy in games like for example lightning) ID tech 5 engine's game called Rage. Be fair...does this game look ugly to you when you visit preview sites? It's not having lag problems or what so ever.

ps: If this anti Apple stuff is proceeding in this negative way not even allowing MAC owners to discuss the problems and finding solutions for it I'm leaving this site which was my n1 site for over 8 years behind me and move over to Anandtech.com.



First, isn't this is PC Enthusiast Website? Notice the lack of Mac or Apple Enthusiast. You people with your arrogant attitudes who think the Mac is better because you paid more bash the PC and then want to be part of a PC forum.

For your question of if there are any good things about apple, the answer is yes. They are good for basic internet browsing. That’s it. Any advanced picture editing, video, sound, or other can be done on a PC... for less $$$.

I run Vista, I have no problems that I can blame on Microsoft. Just because you don’t know how to use it or work your computer does not mean that it is Microsoft’s fault that you have a handicap. Not only is it stable and I find it fast (not as fast as XP, but then again... all these arguments happened about XP vs. 2000). Then again, it is fast with my Q6600, 4GB of RAM, and 8800GTX. When was the last time you went to a hardware store and bought a random part for your Mac... and it just worked?

As a Mac owner, that does not bring any more real facts than me not being a Mac owner. That statement alone proved my point that most or all (me included, just not about Apple) are arrogant pampas asses. How can you bring the real truth.... when you have no idea what... it... is? So, yes, you are wrong. And because you have no words for it, you wrote your dissertation about how you are an Apple fanboy, which is the worst type of fanboy.

I own a Macbook, there is no positive side. It is hard to use, confusing, and locks up at random while using Safari. I paid to much for, have no real performance over my PC, can connect to less devices than my PC, not to mention had to go to a Apple store to get it. Have you tried to go into one of those places? They are filled with people that are bubbly and are uneducated about... ANYTHING! The sales person was trying to show off how much an Apple can load up with only a gig of RAM. It used all of it, then about 3 Gigs of virtual ram. When he asked me if my PC could do that, I said yeah... but faster... without using any virtually ram... while listening to music as well. If you don't own a Apple product or Mac, then why are you bytching about not having a topic here? There are lots of apple forums out there, just get ready to get censored.

SECURITY FEATURE!!!! HAVE YOU NOT READ ANY OF THE PROBLEMS WITH LEOPARD!!! LEOPARD HAS MORE SECURITY OR OS ISSUES A DAY THAN XP AND VISTA COMBINED!!!! (Maximum PC article) There are security issues with Mac's, they are just not as apparent because there are not nearly the same amount of users as there are of PC users. As the amount of users grow for Mac, then more viruses there will be and you will start to see some more malware. They are not perfectly protected against these, there is just no reason to make them right now. Not enough Mac users. Apple's security comes from the lack of support.

This site is negative on Macs and Apples because this is a PC enthusiast site. Not Mac or Apple enthusiast, but PC!

You are a fanboy for Apple/Mac/Steve Jobs because you don't own one, but you are acting like they are better. I own one and I will still admit that the PC is better, Vista is better.

Once again, PC enthusiast forum. I strongly am against this site catering to Apple or having any such forum here. We look at both Apple and PC's from time to time and criticize both. We are going to be slightly biased for the PC already, but many a time we can not justify a Mac. Just get used to it, join an Apple forum if you want to talk to... pro apple people.

So can that "game" run on my Macbook pro? Can my Mac run Crysis, Oblivion, Guild Wars, Need for Speed Carbon, Juiced, Need for Speed Underground, X-3 Reunion, Doom3, or other large games the day of release? For some of the games that I have listed you, you can play. But you had to wait at least a year of so for it. Not to mention, what happens if I want to run AMD or ATi products? What if they offer a better product? Why are you limited to only Intel and Nvidia? Where are your options? What is the part of customizing the computer to be yours? Where is the challenge? Where is the fun? Where is the ability to save money? I got a student discount on the base model that made is less of a hassle to buy it, but it is still an overpriced Web surfing only device. That’s all they are good for! If you want to argue with me, please give me a program that you can use on a Mac that does not have a PC counterpart. Its also funny how Mac OSX boots slower then XP when you install XP on a Mac. Good stuff!

I own a Mac, and I have to say, you are really are arrogant saying that on this PC Enthusiast forum we have to talk about Apple. Why don’t you go to Apple and tell them they need to send commercial out with the Mac vs. PC line about how PC is better. Have PC come out and say want to play this brand new game? Wait, you can’t. Never mind. Or talk about how it is easy to upgrade, software or hardware, as long as you know what you are doing. Or have PC talk about how his security actually can work in practice and not theory, for it gets proven every day! What about Macs new ability to be able to retrieve things you delete, while PC has been doing this since... DOS!

Ok, take a deep breath... Just please realize that this is a PC forum. My rant is over. I will submitting this dissertation to Temple!



***Thank you for pointing out any missed spelt or wrong words. I got flustered and just had to post it!
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