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please help me decide on my new system!!

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February 14, 2008 2:53:31 PM

hay,

(excuse me for my english, i'm 15 and live in the Netherlands)

I've posted this before, but I don't know why nobody responded, maybe it's because I didn't put it in the new "new system build" section, if so, sorry for that.

the problem is I don't know what to do,

I'm going to order the parts next monday, only the basic stuff, i already have hd drive etc.

I've come up with to possible configurations:

1.

cpu: core 2 duo e8400
cpu cooler: Tuniq Tower 120
psu: OCZ StealthXStream 600w
ram: Team Xtreme dark ddr2 4-4-4-12 800mhz (heard they could do 960/1066 on the same timings...)
vid card: Sapphire hd3870
mobo: Asus P5E, X38


2.

cpu: core 2 duo e8400
cpu cooler: Tuniq Tower 120
psu: OCZ StealthXStream 600w
ram: Team Xtreme dark ddr2 4-4-4-12 800mhz
vid card: Point of view 8800gts 512 (g92)
mobo: gigabyte p35 ds3l, or ds3, or ds3r..... (i donno witch one yet, wich do you think? )


I'm hoping to hit at least 4ghz with the e8400, i'll be trying to hit the 4,3/4,4 but thats my the P5problem, because E has a much better/larger heatsink, i tought i'd be able to hit 4,3/4,4 with this board + crossfire support (i'm bit of a ati fanboy..) But on the other hand we've got far better graphical performance, there's no sence in denying that, even if you're an ati fanboy:p , but when i choose the 8800gts, 4.3/4.4 Ghz seems a bit to much for such a board... or am i missing something here?

I can't choose both x38 and 8800gts, i've got a budget....

can you guys please help me with this?

at the moment i'm leaning a bit more towards the P5E and 3870, primarrilly because of crossfire support and good overclocking potential..... but correct me if i'm totally wrong.

there's one other thing, i'm still playing on a 17' crt, so i'll be gaming at 1024x768 or 1280x1024, so I don't need killer performance for high resolutions....

please correct me if i did something wrong, or if components do not mach or such.

thanks in advance,

More about : decide system

February 14, 2008 3:16:38 PM

In your situation (based mostly on your resolution), I'd say going for the E8400 / GTS is probably the best route. At your res, you really don't need Crossfire or SLI support, so you can go with the single PCIe slot offered on the GA-P35-DS3L and just upgrade a single graphics card when the need arises. Most would agree that the GA-P35-DSx series are great overclockers, so I don't think you'll run into any problems there. **The type of GA-P35-DS board is really up to you. I'd check the specs on newegg or something and see what each one has to offer. In most cases it will be a few more USB ports, firewire, etc.**

If you plan on increasing your display size / resolution in the future, I'd go for the X38 w/ the ability to Crossfire. (At that point, you may even want to look at the 3870x2)

Either solution is going to offer fantastic performance for just about anything, so you really can't go wrong.
February 14, 2008 3:24:36 PM

My vote goes for the p35-ds* and the 8800gts (G92) as well.

Josh
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February 14, 2008 3:43:54 PM

rgeist554 said:
In your situation (based mostly on your resolution), I'd say going for the E8400 / GTS is probably the best route. At your res, you really don't need Crossfire or SLI support, so you can go with the single PCIe slot offered on the GA-P35-DS3L and just upgrade a single graphics card when the need arises. Most would agree that the GA-P35-DSx series are great overclockers, so I don't think you'll run into any problems there. **The type of GA-P35-DS board is really up to you. I'd check the specs on newegg or something and see what each one has to offer. In most cases it will be a few more USB ports, firewire, etc.**

If you plan on increasing your display size / resolution in the future, I'd go for the X38 w/ the ability to Crossfire. (At that point, you may even want to look at the 3870x2)

Either solution is going to offer fantastic performance for just about anything, so you really can't go wrong.


Thanks alot!

so you think that i'll be able to hit 4ghz with the ga-p35-ds*? maybe even 4,3/4,4 :) ?

which one of the boards do you recommend? i don't care alot about how many sata's or such, i just want the best overclocking potentual and stabillity, so i think i'll go for the ds3, since it has a slightly larger heatsink and ultra durable 2..... do you agree?

now i think i'll be going for the 8800gts route, but i'm still not sure, it's a big investment for me you know, it has taken me about 6 months to get the money together :p  ... so i do want something worthy for it ;) 

ow, i'd also really apprieciate it if you'd take a look at this..., its the next problem i'll be facing i guess, or i'm just being stupid :p 
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/247939-12-ds3l-ds3r...

thanks!
February 14, 2008 3:44:22 PM

I agree with rgeist about the E8400/512 GTS configuration being your best bet, however, I would be wary about choice of DDR2-800 ram. With your overclocking configuration, you would be running at 444MHz FSB (as the lowest FSB, using the highest 9x multiplier of the chip). With a ratio of 1:1, you would need RAM that would run at least at 888MHz. I don't know about the overclocking potential of those modules, and they may very well be suited to fit the task, but I would make sure that they overclock well enough for your purposed. Otherwise you can buy RAM that is instead rated over 888MHz, and not have to worry about it.
February 14, 2008 4:01:30 PM

thanks for your reply!

however, buying ram that's higher than 800 mhz is just to expensive for me, im on a tight budget you see, (have to borrow a bit from my parents:p ) for example, 2 gigs of 800 mhz costs about 55€ (good quality) (overseas you guys can get them for about 45$ right:S? we are being riped off here in holland:p ) but 2 gigs of pc-8500 is about twice the price for good quality... so its just not possible for my budget...

for 10€ extra i can have Xms2 ddr2 800Mhz from corsair, at 4-4-4-12, with the dominator style heatsink... DHX they call it i believe:S would those be a better option?
February 14, 2008 4:27:48 PM

Agreed on the E8400 & EVGA GeForce 8800GTS (G92) 512MB

If you don't need RAID this is the best, very reliable mobo - GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L

Operating Systems\Memory:
XP - Crucial Ballistix 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)

Vista - G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)

Best heatsink for High OC - XIGMATEK HDT-S1283 120mm Rifle CPU Cooler

I would suggest this case & power supply:
Antec 900 Black Steel ATX Mid Tower
CORSAIR CMPSU-620HX

February 14, 2008 4:35:10 PM

I think you need to decide if you will be using 2 displays that will be at least 30" or larger, if the answer is no then the 8800GTS.G92 512mb is the way to go, if you will at some time use 2 displays and get 30" displays or bigger then you may want to consider a Radeon HD 3870 X2 one for now and one when you get more $$$.

From all that I heard and read SLI & Crossfire are "so not worth it". If you decide that is true stick with the 8800GTS.G92 512mb then and if you go EVGA they have a step-up program (lasts 90 days from purchase I think) so if you want to go with the newer card (I think it's the 9800) you can get that if your not satisfied with the 8800GTS which may prove "not needed" after usage.
February 14, 2008 6:17:57 PM

Thanks for your reply,

I can't really change anything, i've got a very tight budget....:S

So mlaporta, you're saying that the ds3l overclocks better and is more stable than the ds3? or ds3r? despite the smaller heatsink?

Anyway, i've made 2 slight modifications,

i'll now be going for the asus 8800gts 512mb (g92) (evga is to expensive for me, there's a 40€ price difference at the store i'm planning to buy and this one is the cheapest.)

And i think i'll be going with this ram:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

it'll do the job right don't you think?

Ow, the store says it's got epp, but that would mean it's a far more expensive set than the one shown above:S, so im going to assume it's just the one in the link i posted..... crucial balistix is not at sale at my store...

So i think that's the system i'm going to buy... maybe the ds3 or ds3r, i hust don't feel comfortable with such a smal heatsink, but you all say its the best and most stable one... so could somebody pleas explain it to me once and for all :) ?

Ow, and i'm not planning on buying two 30" monitors:p , if i'm going to upgrade, it's going to be a samsung 226 bw or such...

Btw, my case is a Thermaltake soprano with window, cpu cooler and graphicscard do fit right:S? and how about the hight of the ram heatsinks? is it going to bother my tuniq tower?

Thanks a lot, only one thing left, can one of you guys please give awnser to this question:S? because i'd really feel desperate if my "totally new and expensive" system wouldn't post... :S :
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/247939-12-ds3l-ds3r...

Thanks alot!

you've been a great help!
February 15, 2008 4:08:29 PM

Hay,

I'm now officially done with al the research, so i'll be ordering soon!
(as soon as my dad feels like it :p )

Anyway, i just wanted to thank you all for your support, great forum's!!

This is the final configuration:

Cpu: Intel Core 2 duo e8400
Cpu cooler: Tuniq Tower 120 LFB (fitted with a blue LED fan, I had 4 € left on my budget, so i spend them on this version, is going to look cool:p )
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L
Graphics Card: MSI NX8800GTS 512MB OC Edition (g92)
PSU: OCZ StealXstream 600w
RAM: Corsair Xms2 DDR2 PC-6400 4-4-4-12 DHX 2x1024mb

I'll post again when i've got it up and running!

greetz,

_AlcaPwn_
February 15, 2008 4:17:58 PM

2 things first I'm not so sure on that power supply check this list and get a Tier 2 at the very least no matter the cost (yours isn't Tier 2):
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10...

See if this memory is avaialble:
Crucial Ballistix 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)
February 15, 2008 4:21:38 PM

One thing you should think about is OC'ing which from the parts you have you may not be able to OC to the highest degree so in that case save a few bucks just get a:

Low to Moderate OC - ARCArtic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro 92mm CPU Cooler

High OC - XIGMATEK HDT-S1283 120mm Rifle CPU Cooler
February 15, 2008 4:33:05 PM

IF THIS GPU IS AVAILABLE THERE AND SAME PRICE GET IT OVER THE MISI:
XFX PVT88GYDF4 GeForce 8800GTS (G92) 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card
February 15, 2008 5:52:16 PM

mlaporta said:
2 things first I'm not so sure on that power supply check this list and get a Tier 2 at the very least no matter the cost (yours isn't Tier 2):
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10...

See if this memory is avaialble:
Crucial Ballistix 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)


Thanks for your support,

But you're wrong, the OCZ StealXstream 600w is internally exactly the same as OCZ GameXstream 600w (tier 2), The only difference is that it is cheaper, they reduced the cost by not including a blue led fan, by only having 5 molex and 3 sata power cables and by not totally sleeving the wires. Internally it is the same as the GameXstream, same reliabillity, same efficiency etc.

And about the memorry, I really can't find it, not at the shop i'm planning to buy nor at the other shops in Holland. Also i'm very happy with the choice of memmory, it has a "overclock capable" heatsink, is not extremely high priced, has low latencies and comes from a reliable and well known brand. Can you explain to me why crucial balistix is better?

Ow, and why should i take the xfx 8800gts instead? the brand only determines the look, possible overclock, bundle and possible non refference cooler of the graphics card (correct me if i'm wrong), but since both brands have the refference cooler, and since the MSI-variant is already factory overclocked + it includes colin McRae Dirt in its bundle and it is also cheaper, i see no reason to go with the xfx..

Please convince me why i should in your opinion.

Really aprieciate your help!
February 15, 2008 6:36:21 PM

Didn't know that about the psu (and am surprised you found that out) so if you know that to be true then it's on the Tier 2 list then. Crucial has been around a while and proven to be reliable, most of these other newer brands though they may have good spec's they haven't proven "the-test-of-time" but not a problem I am just as they say "erring on the side of caution". Once again as far as video goes 2 brands have "proven" performance & reliability EVGA & XFX, so I went with them but MSI is a know company so "go-for-it".

You have a great build and will enjoy it I'm sure!!!
February 15, 2008 7:16:15 PM

Here, fore you guys who want proof that the OCZ StealXStream is a good quality PSU.

It uses the same components as OCZ GameXstream 700w and Zalman ZM600-HP.

You can read it here:
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/451/1

Here are a couple of quotes from the review i picked out:



"But… Wait a minute! This printed circuit board (FSP part number 3BS0110312GP) is exactly the same one used by OCZ GameXstream 700 W and Zalman ZM600-HP! Are they all the same product with a different name? Let's disasemble this unit to check this out."

"All components describe on this page are identical to the ones used on OCZ GameXstream 700 W and Zalman ZM600-HP."

"Interesting to note that these are the same transistors used by Zalman ZM600-HP, OCZ GameXstream 700 W and Corsair HX620W power supplies."

"As we explained, the +5 V and +3.3 V output circuits from OCZ StealthXstream 600 W, OCZ GameXstream 700 W and Zalman ZM600-HP are identical"

"On the label of these three power supplies the maximum combined power for these two outputs is of 155 W. StealthXstream 600 W and GameXstream 700 W have the same labeled currents"

"This is exactly the same configuration used by OCZ GameXstream 700 W and Zalman ZM600-HP."

"OCZ says that each virtual rail found on StealthXstream 600 W can deliver up to 18 A – the same spec labeled for GameXstream 700 W"

"We loved this power supply. Why? Because it has exactly the same design of two other good high-end power supplies, OCZ GameXstream 700 W and Zalman ZM600-HP, but costs a lot less – only USD 85 in the USA. For the average user this is a terrific buy."

"The only internal difference between OCZ StealthXstream 600 W and these other two high-end models are the rectifiers used on the +12 V output, capable of delivering less current (and thus power). But it is still enough for the majority of users. The other components are exactly the same."


So do you agree with me that this is also a "Tier 2 PSU"?

The difference with the 12v rectifiers only affects total power output, it doesn't affect reliabillity or efficiency or stabillity or such. Read the whole review if you want, but its a lot of text :p 
February 16, 2008 2:26:57 AM

You did your research so that would be your call :D 
February 16, 2008 2:58:27 AM

I agree with the Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L and 8800GTS route and my personal experience with Crucial's Ballistix DDR2 800 couldn't be better. I purchased the Crucial Ballistix 1066MHz and am running them at 800MHz 1:1 with the FSB, the only reason I went with the 1066 speed is I didn't want my memory to limit my overclock. Crucial's overclock like no other, my Crucial's will run at 1200MHz 5-5-5-15 @ 2.2v. The OCZ StealXstream 600w is fine for your build, more than enough. Great job reseaching btw. :D 

Crucial Ballistix DDR2 800 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
February 16, 2008 4:39:08 AM

I'm running the Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L, E6750, BFG 8800GT(OC) with 2 GB of Crucial Ballistix DDR2 800, and it's a great system.
February 16, 2008 6:16:08 AM

Since you're not running Crossfire, go with the P35. You can upgrade to an X38 later on, when prices drop. As far as which version of the mobo you should go with, only you can decide that. I went with the DS3L because it had everything I needed and nothing I didn't

8800GTS (G92) will out preform the HD 3870.

And your English is very, very good. Much better than my Dutch ;) 
February 16, 2008 7:58:52 AM

Thanks for your reply's!

I've found a shop who has Crucial ballistix, but that would meen that i'll be buying from 3 different stores, and if i decide to do that, i'll also have to take the "Gainward bliss" 8800gts 512mb (g92).

So I have the possibillity to take crucial ballistix, but it would take a lot of effort to get them, So only if you say it's going to be a huge difference i'll take this route, but if it's not that big a deal, i'd rather stay with my corsair+msi configuration.

What do you think i should do?

Are Crucial ballistix so much better?

Here's a review of the gainward bliss 8800gts 512mb:
http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&ta...

You proberbly don't know that brand right? Maybe it's europe only or something, but they say they highly recommend it.

So what should i do?

Take crucial ballistix and gainward bliss 8800gts 512mb and go through the "3 store" buy, or just stick with the configuration i listed above.

Anyway, i'm really greatfull for all your reply's!
February 16, 2008 9:25:33 AM

I've just finished doing some research, and now i'm also convinced about the crucial ballistix....

when searching the web i found this review:
http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews.php?type=3&id=128&pa...

If you read on, you'll see that this ram is capable of 530mhz (1060) on the same 4-4-4-12 timings @ 2,4volts !!!!

And i'll proberbly be going to use fsp:ram=1:1, that wold mean that i'd have to verclock my e8400 to (530x9) 4770mhz, But i'll proberbly won't get further than 4410 mhz, so that would result in 490mhz for the ram, wich is 40 mhz below the maximum.

(when timings are lowerd to 5-5-5-15, 560mhz (1120) is the maximum @ 2,4volts)

So thanks for recommending it!

Can't wait!!!
February 16, 2008 10:21:48 AM

Aaargh i'm going mad here :S!!!

I just found out that for the same money i can get this ram:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Wich is pc-8500 (1066mhz) thus when i choose this set, the ram won't be bottlenecking my cpu overclock right?

But wich one do i have to choose, this one has 5-5-5-15 timings, and the crucial ballistix has 4-4-4-12, so wich is the better option of the two?

Ow, I just saw that the dominator set is twice the money of the crucial set on newegg, but here in holland the crucial set is ectually higher priced :o .

I'll pay €73 for Crucial Ballistix pc-6400 cl4

I'll pay €70 for Corsair Dominator pc-8500 cl5

I think i'll go with the corsair...

Do you agree with me?

Please help!! it's so hard to choose!!!
February 16, 2008 12:40:25 PM

My Crucial Ballistix PC2 8500's are rated for 1066MHz 5-5-5-15 2.2v (can do 1200MHz 5-5-5-15 2.2v), but that doesn't mean that I can't run them at 4-4-4-12 800MHz 1.9-2.0v. All the PC2 8500's from any memory vender are are overclocked DDR2 800, binned higher and programed higher. Next time you use CPU-Z look at the memory tab and you'll see for PC2 6400's even though there PC2 8500's.

The most popular brand of RAM chips are Micron IC's and since Micron is the same company as Crucial you'll know for sure what your getting, Micron IC's. I remember a year ago Corsair Dominators DDR2 800 were using cheap IC's and this made a lot of computer users very unhappy, will you know for sure that you Dominators actually have Micron IC's? No because Corsair doesn't promise that you get Microns and if you check under the heat spreaders you just killed your lifetime warrenty.
February 16, 2008 1:13:53 PM

I'll be going with the corsair,

I've just read a review, and it was all positive, nothing mentioned about micron ic's tho, but I believe that corsair makes qualitty products, they've been a high-end brand for many years, and there's lots of very positive feedback.

Review: http://www.xtremecomputing.co.uk/review.php?id=335&page...

(i won't get the fan with the dominator, but even then it will stil have got great OC potentual)

If you put up a pros/cons list, you'll get this:

If i choose dominator pc2-8500:

pros:
Ram not botlenecking my cpu overclock.
Great heatsinks,
higher speeds,
good overclock potentual,
great performance.

cons:
No assurance of Micron IC's


If i choose crucial ballistix pc2-6400:

pros:
Micron IC's
Good overclocking

cons:
Lower speeds, thus lower performance.
Possible bottleneck for cpu overclocking
higher price

So if you compare these two, the conclusion is pretty simple.

I'll be going for the corsair dominator.

(please note me if i made a big mistake in the pros/cons lists, or if i'm wrong)

Thanks for your help! Really aprieciated!
February 16, 2008 2:13:07 PM

Anyway I'm tired of waiting and having to make decisions,

I'm going to order now,

Here's the final configuration (the real one this time:p ):

CPU: Intel Core 2 duo e8400
CPU Cooler: Tuniq Tower 120 (without blue led fan)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L
PSU: OCZ StealthXStream 600w
RAM: Corsair Dominator Xms2 Ddr2 PC-8500 1066Mhz E.P.P. DHX
Graphics Card: Gainward Bliss 8800gts 512mb gddr3 (g92)

I just wanted to thank you all for supporting me, great forums! Keep up the good work!!

Greetz and thanks,

_AlcaPwn_
February 16, 2008 4:45:03 PM

Good luck!
February 16, 2008 11:58:13 PM

Right on, your computer will kick some a** :)  I wish when I got my Tuniq Tower 120 that it came with the LED fan. Installing the Tuniq Tower guide: Make sure you tighten down the thumb screws with the tention springs to 90% tight, even then if you twist hard enough it will move slightly which is ok.

Some might tell you not to tighten that much because when the TT 120 came out the thumb screws would pop off, this is no long the case on the newer ones. Let us know how everything went and what your 3DMark06 score is. :sol: 
!