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have parts, about to start, but... 64 or 32 bit vista?

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February 15, 2008 1:10:14 PM

Here's the parts that I have (& vista ultimate 64bit that i could swap licenses for this oem 32bit); the difficulty is the dual ATI HD3870x2's. Do the drivers still come out first for 32bit, and then delay a while until the 64bit release? Would I be wasting the 4th GB of ram by not using 64bit? I am going to have to wait a bit anyway to fully use that 2nd hd3870x2 in CrossFireX, but I'd not ALSO like to be delayed further just because I chose 64bit.

Thoughts? (ps, thanks to all for the help in selecting parts!)

Core:

1@$276.99 INTEL Q6600 2.40G
2@$449.99 VGA GECUBE HD3870X2-F3 RT
1@$94.99 MEM 4Gx2|GSK F2-6400CL5D-4GBPQ R
1@$249.99 MB ASUS MAXIMUS FORMULA X38 ICH9R R
2@$169.99 dual 150gb raptors, striped

Enclosure
CASE ANTEC|NINE HUNDRED BK RT 1 $109.99
PSU Thermaltake 1200W RT 1@$389.99
CPU COOLER ZALMAN|CNPS 9700 NT R 1 $59.99

Assorted:
SDCARD CREATIVE|SB0570 AUDIGY SE RT 1 $29.99
CPU CLEAN|ARCTIC CLEAN ACN-60ML % 1 $5.99
HD 1T|ST 7K 32M SATA2 ST31000340AS 1 $269.99
S/W MS WIN VISTA 32BT ULT 1P DVD% 1 $169.99
CPU THERMPASTE|ARCTIC SILVER5 3.5G% 1@$5.99
EA CRYSIS COLLECTOR EDITION PC RTL 1@$46.99


+tax & ship:
$3285

More about : parts start bit vista

February 15, 2008 1:55:33 PM

Since you bought 8GB , you'll pretty much have to use 64 bit to see / use more than ~3.5GB of it. Just beware that you'll need to make absolutely sure that you're using all 64 bit approved drivers, otherwise, you're going BSOD like no other.
February 15, 2008 1:58:54 PM

That's actually 4g (2 2gb chips).. don't know why the newegg invoice listed it like that. Really, it is the driver support I'm worried about...

For drivers, I'm looking at
ati gecube hd3870x2 (????? 64 bit ok?)
sony camera drivers (should be fine there)
Lexmark printer drivers there... (may be fine there)
sb audigy (better be ok)
Related resources
February 15, 2008 2:23:03 PM

Jim_L9 said:
With 4GB go with 32 bit Vista. It will be less problematic and the 64 bit version has a bigger memory footprint. http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/02/15/vista_workshop/


While this may be true to a degree I would not trust that crappy article about it which documents this very poorly, if at all. The article also assumes you would see 3.5 gig on 32 bit but with all that Video RAM I bet he would be lucky to see even 3 of it.
February 15, 2008 2:23:29 PM

Ah, yes. If you've only got 4GB then you can safely get away with the 32bit version. You'll only lose about .5GB of RAM (or less), which shouldn't have any negative impact on your system. (Just as Jim_L9 explained already)

Quote:
sb audigy (better be ok)
Actually, I've heard there were a few 64 bit issues with audigy cards. Also, blu-ray and HD-DVD playback software is taking a hit from a lack of 64 bit support. (Mostly Cyberlink's PowerDVD software) Just figured that information may be useful.




February 15, 2008 2:25:31 PM

rgeist554 said:
Ah, yes. If you've only got 4GB then you can safely get away with the 32bit version. You'll only lose about .5GB of RAM (or less), which shouldn't have any negative impact on your system. (Just as Jim_L9 explained already)

Quote:
sb audigy (better be ok)
Actually, I've heard there were a few 64 bit issues with audigy cards. Also, blu-ray and HD-DVD playback software is taking a hit from a lack of 64 bit support. (Mostly Cyberlink's PowerDVD software) Just figured that information may be useful.


Most systems today lose a gig, or more, the 3.5 you used to get is rare these days.

I'm not sure how this impacts the larger question. It may still be better to stick with 32 if you only have 4 gig - but I think that question needs a much better answer than we were given in the quoted article.
February 15, 2008 2:31:49 PM

Well, it's only going to address 3.5GB. Of course the system will consume more RAM. As you've already stated, you'll lose almost a gig directly to hardware (GPU). The OS and other processes are going to consume an additional 700-900MB (Typically 200-300MB in XP).

The important thing is that he will still have RAM that is unused by hardware / OS, so he can safely run apps. without worry of any sort of RAM bottleneck. 2GB or less in Vista would certainly slow the system down considerably.
February 15, 2008 2:48:30 PM

64 all the way the driver issues aren't much of an issue.

Are you sure that PSU can be installed in that case?
February 15, 2008 2:55:25 PM

Quote:
Are you sure that PSU can be installed in that case?
Good point.

OP: Take a look at the PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 Quad (Sometimes called the OCZ Silencer) It's got a little less Wattage, but I'm sure it can power a single 3870x2. Also, it's a tier 1 awesome PSU that I know can fit in that case.
February 15, 2008 2:58:16 PM

I sure hope the 1200w thermal take fits in the case...Antec 900... (getting nervous now....)

May have to take a run to bestbuy (shudder) if not.

It looks like I'm leaning towards 64bit ... i forgot about how many address allocations would be needed -- I was thinking 1gb of VRAM, but forgot to double that for the 2 cards... I hope the audigy works, but i can always fall back on the sound in the maximus formula for a few days if I run into issues.
February 15, 2008 2:59:50 PM

A 32-bit OS can only recognize 4GB of memory including your video memory. You have 2 1GB video cards, think of how that might be a problem...

You have to get a 64-bit OS, 32-bit isn't an option, unless you only want to have 2GB of RAM(which judging by the fact that you bought 4, you don't.)
February 15, 2008 3:13:55 PM

rgeist554 & bydesign (or anyone else): how do i figure out if it will fit without opening the PSU box?
February 15, 2008 3:15:54 PM

the toughpower 1200 is listed as h: 86mm, w:160mm, l:200mm
February 15, 2008 3:30:31 PM

Generally they'll just say whether or not it's a standard ATX sized PSU.
February 15, 2008 3:41:33 PM

Another vote for 64-bit. Think ahead, you may want to increase your RAM later on if you plan on keeping this system for a while and 32-bit would have yourself right on the edge of allowable RAM right from the start.

I have two systems running Vista, one 32-bit the other 64-bit. I've had NO problems with 64-bit at all on the drivers side. I had three programs that didn't like 64-bit, two were throw away apps and the last one was iTunes (cd burning error). iTunes works flawlessly now, however, after installing some 64-bit gear driver.
February 15, 2008 3:44:10 PM

The only issue I had read w/ the ToughPower 1200w was that it's 200mm (7.8 inches) long, and some cases couldn't support that...

That didn't look like an issue with the 900:

http://www.techimo.com/photo/showphoto.php/photo/10056/cat/all/ppuser/82591

That should give 4" of clearance to the right. Now you guys have me wondering about the depth into the case (160mm).. hmmm...
February 15, 2008 3:55:46 PM

Is a better heatsink for HIGH OC:
XIGMATEK HDT-S1283 120mm Rifle CPU Cooler

Also I don't think I saw a optical drive: Samsung SH-S203B SATA

(Get the "Retail" version of the optical drive in order to get software with it. This will include the decoder you'll need to watch movies on it.)
February 15, 2008 4:35:42 PM

I vote for 64 bit, mine works great.
February 15, 2008 4:54:56 PM

mlaporta said:
Is a better heatsink for HIGH OC:
XIGMATEK HDT-S1283 120mm Rifle CPU Cooler

Also I don't think I saw a optical drive: Samsung SH-S203B SATA

(Get the "Retail" version of the optical drive in order to get software with it. This will include the decoder you'll need to watch movies on it.)


Thanks, but i'm not ready to go pedal-to-the-medal for OC-ing... going to get used to stock first before I ramp up, but I love all the features on the maximus formula -- if the manual's any indicator, this is going to be fun :) 

Also, optical drives are getting cannibalized from an old build -- interesting about the SATA optical though.... hadn't seen that before!
February 15, 2008 4:55:48 PM

ImajorI said:
I vote for 64 bit, mine works great.


Can't leave it at that! What vid card(s)? How much ram?
February 15, 2008 5:48:50 PM

Stay away from Vista altogether.
You can use all the ram with XP 64 bit and the system will run faster...you won't have all that crap DRM Vista forces on you (worst thing MS ever came up with).

You could also use XP 32 bit but the system would only see 3GB of the ram (same with any 32 bit OS).

Also for $30-40 more than -one- Raptor you could have -two- 500GB Segate 7200.11's which beat Raptors butt in all but one heavy server benchmark.
February 15, 2008 6:19:31 PM

I'm loving my 64-bit installation of Vista Ultimate. So far the only problems I've run into that I haven't been able to fix are the compatibility with my Logitech wireless mouse and keyboard. The keyboard works fine (I just can't program shortcuts on it) but the mouse is uncontrollable about 70% of the time!
February 15, 2008 6:47:40 PM

So many people say get 1 Raptor-150gb & 1-500 7200.11???
February 15, 2008 7:21:33 PM

I have no doubt there is physically enough room in the case, it's getting in there that maybe the problem. I have a 1200 Thermaltake its as long two PSU.

You may have to call unless you find an article or someones thats has done it.
February 15, 2008 7:30:32 PM

If you're going to be running that much Video Card you're going to waste 2GB unless you go 64 bit. Much respect for XP64 but it never caught on like it deserved, Vista 64 has the better support now, and quite frankly there's no sense investing in an OS that's already on it's way out. You'll just end up replacing it anyhow.



Vista 64 here - 4GB RAM, 1TB 7200.11, and 8800 GTX... This sucker HUMS!! Regularly using Network Magic, Napster, Firefox/Thunderbird, Opera works as fine as it usually does. Games - WOW, The Witcher, NWN/NWN2/Mask, Bioshock, Oblivion and it's expansions. And Office 2007 was much harder to get used to than the OS itself. Been using it for the last 6 months, with no troubles from the OS at all. Had a couple shareware apps that no longer run, and you have to use a 32 bit browser to run Flash because Macromedia/Adobe can't be bothered... But that's it. Maybe if you're insisting on using old games and hardware you might run into troubles, but using new the drivers are there. Even Creative got their X-Fi shi.. stuff... into one sack.
February 15, 2008 7:56:33 PM

vista is fine, most problems are gone. get your facts straight
February 15, 2008 8:10:50 PM

Go with Vista 64... like others, I have had little to no problems. Driver support has been a non-issue.

And again... think about future upgrades.
February 15, 2008 9:25:06 PM

aardwolf said:
Can't leave it at that! What vid card(s)? How much ram?

8800 GT or 8800 GTS
(2 x 2GB) DDR2 800
PCP&C Silencer 750
Vista 64 Bit
I guess maybe I got lucky but my Vista Ultimate 64 has been flawless since my December build playing Bioshock, Crysis, Oblivion and older games. Go to Circuit City or Best Buy and you can't buy a computer with XP on it anymore, that should tell you something. I agree with Scotteq about Vista. Why invest in a dead end.
February 16, 2008 7:34:41 AM

I was worried about vista64 also. but every game ive tried to run has run fine. especially crysis which looks amazing. I had a problem running COD4 single player but two hotfixes later and it was running fine. Nvidia.com has a link to all current hotfixes. took 5 minutes.

why are you using raptor drives? they might speed up the load time of a game but they will do nothing for the actual performance once your playing. The seagate 750GB 7200.11 Is just about as fast and its $110. get two and back up everything on one onto the other.

your motherboard also comes with on-board sound. good enough unless your an audiophile or do sound work. the supreme_FX II card can be finnicky though at first. just load the latest drivers.


February 16, 2008 1:40:45 PM

vista64 is the way to go....

Have the same board(Asus Maximus Formula) as you do. It runs vista 64 just fine..

Drivers for 64 bits Vista is already available on your listed HW...
February 16, 2008 2:27:41 PM

To get your new drivers digitally signed by microsoft, you have to support both 64-bit and 32-bit. And to have working drivers in vista, they have to be digitally signed. So 64-bit drivers arent a problem anymore.

One thought though, for 10 more dollars, you can splurge and get the X-Fi Xtreem Audio card, which has great performance over the basic audigy.

And deff go with 64-bit. You'll be kicking yourself a year from now if you dont.
February 16, 2008 3:10:15 PM

I don't see how that article is a legitimate factor in the Vista 64-bit question since it pretty much seems unfinished and doesn't actually show the 'measureable' gains they said existed O_o

Anywho, definately get the 64-bit version. A 32 bit OS isn't going to see more than just over 3Gb of memory, and this includes your Video Card's memory as well (4gb system mem + 1gb video mem (3870x2) = 5gb, which = 2 gb wasted/lost).
February 16, 2008 3:19:13 PM

I go the 64-bit version running 4 GB of RAM.

As long as you don't want to play many old games... you are golden!

Mine runs buttery smooth. It is fantastic.
February 16, 2008 4:41:48 PM

mlaporta said:
So many people say get 1 Raptor-150gb & 1-500 7200.11???


I have that combo and I like it. The OS, etc load fast and the other drive holds my data. But that's a personal choice and depends somewhat on how much money you have to spend.

As for XP64, I have that on one of my computers and think its great. The only worthwhile thing that Vista offers which XP64 doesn't is DX10, and so far, there are no games that require DX10, so there's no hurry about that. XP64 will also be supported by M$ for about another 10 years, so there shouldn't be any fear about getting it. The next OS from M$ will be out before support for XP64 ends, so it isn't exactly a dead end OS.

If someone does get Vista, I think the 64 bit version is the only one that makes sense. I do have that on one of my computers and it has worked reasonably well after turning off some or the junk. The main problem with it that I see, other than its slower than XP, is that a lot of business apps don't support it and won't for a long time yet. One company said they never do intend to support it.
February 18, 2008 6:40:42 PM

Just as an FYI, I did get the initial build completed... so other people googling for the info can see the resolution:

Antec 900 case works fine with ThermalTake 1200watt power supply. There's plenty of room for that PSU.

I decided to use 1 raptor for OS, 1 raptor for swap and app working files, and the 1T seagate drive (7200.11) for installed applications.

I still have yet to install the second HD3870x2, as my cable management skills are AWFUL (I may need to find cables that take up less room!).

The installation of 64bit Vista went fine (once I removed the usb memory stick -- that device sapped performance of the install for some reason!). I'm running at stock for all parts, and get a 3dmark 06 score that exceeds 13,000. Current issues: only one optical drive (still have to cannibalize the 2nd), only one video card (single hd3870x2 -- i have the 2nd one on hand), need to upgrade vista to sp1 (I have legit access to the RTM version already).

I owe whoever suggested the antec 900 case to me a cookie/beer. This thing OWNS crysis on high at 1600x1200, and pumps out cold air from all the exhaust fans. My only problem is a red-line on the northbridge voltage that I have to track down. I'm a n00b at voltages.

Pictures to come!
February 20, 2008 6:58:55 AM

Just something I didn't see mentioned, if you are running a 1200w power supply be damned sure you are running that on it's own electrical line in your residence.

A powerline is not rated to much more than what your PS can draw, and it's not wise to run it to the full rating. (please note how I phrased this before you jump on the (well it'll only actually power 500 watts worth of pc parts - the fact is the PS can draw 1200 and may draw 1200, and when it means overloading electrical lines you hope for the best and plan for the worst).

If you have lights, other power outlets, anything at all using the same line as your computer, have an electrician come in and install a separate line for your computer.

Having a computer that can potentially draw that much power really forces you to address the wiring in your home!!!

Don't dick the dog on it either, check it out seriously, overloaded lines are a very common cause of people being burned in their beds or losing everything they own. So take it seriously, you are going to be running up to some potentially serious load on that line and you need to be sure you don't have a couple of lightbulbs etc putting it over the top.
February 20, 2008 8:26:13 AM

Funny how these trolls always attract a big crows. What can be more fun than yapping endlessly on the topics of "vista vs. xp" "32 or 64?" " dual core or quad core".

make a decision already for god's sake. a wrong one perhaps (as you might see in the long run) but still a decision. And if you don't like it - install the other.
!