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will Swiftech H20-220 cool both CPU & NB?

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a b à CPUs
September 15, 2008 9:42:28 PM

I was looking to cool my CPU (QX9770) and my NB (ASUS Maximus Extreme board). The motherboard comes with the ASUS fusion block already installed on the NB chipset. Will the Swiftech H20-220-APEX-GT cool both? Since this is sold with just the CPU block, can I just attach the NB in series? Or should I use Y connectors or ??? to connect the CPU and NB seperately (parallel)?
a b à CPUs
a c 86 K Overclocking
September 16, 2008 1:04:40 AM

Series, never parellel. You'll lose flow rates on both blocks, thats bad. The block that comes with that kit, is an older one and isn't that good a performer on quads, especially if you OC. But it's one of the best starter kits.

Down the road you'll probably replace the rad and CPU and NB block anyway. The rad is pretty good, not as good as Fesser or Thermochill. Those 120x2 rads alone are over $120.

It will give temps a bit lower than a TRUE air cooler and cool your NB too. Don't try to add a GPU to it though, you'll need a bigger rad and that NB Mobo block is pretty restictive once you start adding stuff. You'll need to buy some reducers to go from the 3/8 to 7/16 hose that comes with the kit.

It will be okay, just okay for your PC.

OC Forums and xtreme forums for real WC info, you'll need to learn install tips etc.
September 16, 2008 1:34:28 AM

Conumdrum said:
Series, never parellel. You'll lose flow rates on both blocks, thats bad. The block that comes with that kit, is an older one and isn't that good a performer on quads, especially if you OC. But it's one of the best starter kits.

Down the road you'll probably replace the rad and CPU and NB block anyway. The rad is pretty good, not as good as Fesser or Thermochill. Those 120x2 rads alone are over $120.

It will give temps a bit lower than a TRUE air cooler and cool your NB too. Don't try to add a GPU to it though, you'll need a bigger rad and that NB Mobo block is pretty restictive once you start adding stuff. You'll need to buy some reducers to go from the 3/8 to 7/16 hose that comes with the kit.

It will be okay, just okay for your PC.

OC Forums and xtreme forums for real WC info, you'll need to learn install tips etc.


Well said!

You will need a better waterblock for the Quad you have, will drop 8-10c from the one that comes with the kit. Swifty makes some good blocks, the one in the kit is fine for a Core2Duo, but not a quad.
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a b à CPUs
September 16, 2008 3:45:12 AM

thanks for the reply guys. I'll look at the swiftech waterblock. Any advice on other kits in the $200-$250 range that would be a good starter kit?
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a c 86 K Overclocking
September 16, 2008 3:52:53 AM

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a b à CPUs
September 16, 2008 4:14:20 AM

thanks Conumdrum...I ordered the Swiftech Apogee GTZ waterblock and will use that with the Swiftech H20-220 kit. should I order the aftermarket NB block for the Maximus Extreme, or use the ASUS block that came with the board?
a b à CPUs
a c 86 K Overclocking
September 16, 2008 4:19:58 AM

Man, you should read the links I sent you for a week or so. You'll find the hose with the kit is barely good, the pump can be bought cheaper or a better pump for the same money, and you'll realize once summer comes you should of got a better/bigger rad.

Phh well, you decided to listen to radioshack, and be a stoopid consumer and not spend the time to learn. Please forget the links I told you to spend time at. I should stop coming by here to help.
a b à CPUs
a c 86 K Overclocking
September 16, 2008 4:24:40 AM

Grrr..... And what to use for liquid? How to fill the loop without smokin the pump? What clamps are best? What temps to expect? NM. When to rebuild/drain the loop?
a b à CPUs
September 16, 2008 1:49:37 PM

Conumdrum,

Calm down tool. You're thinking of someone else...I haven't posted on watercooling before (I never even considered watercooling before 2 days ago), nor have we communicated before. So I guess the guy you gave advice to for a WEEK did listen to you. Thanks for your criptic answers none the less. I will do more research before buying the kit. All I have ordered right now is the waterblock (Apogee GTZ ).
a b à CPUs
a c 330 K Overclocking
September 16, 2008 5:53:01 PM

Hostility over where people get information from? Yes, those forums do have more experienced users, so he does make a good point. I think where the issue lie is how people took his information as bashing.
a b à CPUs
September 16, 2008 8:04:54 PM

I agree Rubix. that's why I thanked for for the information he did pass on. I am checking out a few other forums and have gained a lot of information.

I don't know if people took his information as bashing, but I did. Re-read his post, he thought I was someone else he had helped before and that I was stupid. Basically I asked a simple question about a watercooling kit (after a search didn't fully answer my question) and he lays into me that he's spent a week giving me information and I'm not smart enough to follow.
a b à CPUs
a c 330 K Overclocking
September 16, 2008 8:36:54 PM

I understand that Tom's isn't teeming with as many WC experts as some of the other forums. But, that doesn't mean is OK to troll forums and attack people and try to ridicule them. Besides, telling people that there aren't any people on this forum that are educated enough is pretty much bashing, even though there might be more instances of that being true than on other forums. It isn't an all-or-nothing conclusion.
a b à CPUs
September 16, 2008 8:44:16 PM

I agree Rubix. And although I have been on other forums trying to become educated in watercooling, I still posted here becasue Tom's has always been a good source of information and advice. And I did get good advice/direction through the attack though...it led me to a different forum and other advice. So ultimately, Conumdrum's attack on me pushed me to other who gave me the answers.
September 16, 2008 8:51:01 PM

We do just fine here with helping people. I'm not sure why there is all this hostility but it isn't productive.

As Rubix knows through experience, we spend alot of time helping people here and regardless of what the inquiry is, there is no such thing as a stupid question.

japps2, there are plenty of people here who are more than happy to assist you in whatever manner - Rubix is always helpful as are many others.
a b à CPUs
September 16, 2008 10:53:27 PM

thanks Phreejak...and Rubix. that's why I come here...and try to give back when I know what I'm talking about.

After looking at a bunch of various overclockers forums...I still can't make heads out of what the best system is. The Swiftech kit has a lot of the same parts that others recommend using in a custom build. So people bag on the swiftech kit...then say build custom and recommend parts that are similar to the Swiftech stuff. Also, do either of you guys know if the ASUS fusion waterblock on the northbridge is crap, or decent? I've read tons of pro and con posts.
September 16, 2008 11:42:51 PM

I have no experience nor have I read much about the ASUS NB waterblock.

japps2, here is what I tell anyone who is just getting into watercooling: The biggest influence will probably be your o'clocking philosophy. I mean, there are other essential factors also: budget, environment, fascination, etc.

But, when it comes right down to it, all things considered equal, it really does matter what you are hoping to achieve as far as o'clocking. A person only gets into watercooling (for the most part) when aircooling does not yield the cooling results (for whatever reason) that the enthusiast desires.

That being said, watercooling is the next logical step as water is a far better transfer medium for heat than air. Now there are many levels of "kits" that a person can avail themselves of - some are much less than $100, some are considerably more expensive. Now, your budget becomes an influence. But, you have to weigh certain other intangibles like: expandability of the kit, "future-proofing" as many of the components as possible (i.e being able to use as many parts in the next expansion of your cooling loop when you upgrade), quality and reputation - I think you get the picture.

I've been involved in watercooling for about 8 years now (you'd laugh at what used to pass for a waterblock in the early days). One of the things I have found is that, ultimately, if you stay in watercooling, you will find out that custom built kits will be the way to go - it is an inevitable conclusion as you will like many parts from multiple companies.

Now, there are two Apex series kits and both use the GT, However, Ultra just cools the CPU and the Ultra+ cools the CPU, NB and GPU. That NB waterblock - the Fusion block system - on the ASUS Maximux Extreme board uses 3/8ID barbs so that sort of handcuffs you a bit if you are going to employ it in your cooling loop. Is you start out with a 1/2 ID kit and have to downsize for that waterblock than you will be robbing yourself of some flowrate. You see, those Swiftech kits are all 1/2ID.

The nice thing about those two Ultra kits is the MCP655 pump that they use - I use that pump - dead silent and extremely powerful. Another plus is that with those kits, even though the parts are all Swiftech - they are all top grade parts (although the CPU block is a bit old) and even if you went custom design, you might have purchased most of those parts anyway. As far as kits go, most of the parts are useable well into the future (except, perhaps, that GT CPU block).
a b à CPUs
September 17, 2008 12:20:02 AM

Phreejak,

thanks. I like what I've read on the Swiftech kit for the most part. I agree that if I ever want to add blocks to the system I will need a larger system. For now I'm just looking at cooling the CPU and NB. I did buy the newer Swiftech Apogee GTZ CPU waterblock. I am also concerned about the 3/8" nipples on the ASUS northbridge. I did find an aftermarket NB waterblock for the Maximus Extreme, but didn't know if it offered that much.

thanks again for your help.

oh...and I will probably overclock to 3.6GHz on the QX9770. I also heard that these processors run pretty hot, so water cooling was to keep things stable.
a b à CPUs
a c 86 K Overclocking
September 17, 2008 12:15:38 PM

Sorry folks, I went overboard. Ya know how forum comments can be, once you start typing, it don't stop. Sorry......

I gave my input hope it helps once you remove the frustration and stupidity.

To the OP: Glad you moved up to that CPU block. It's considered tops now, good flow and heat removal. Look at simple brass fittings at your local hardware store or plastic reducers to drop to 3/8 for the NB. Try it out first, your temps may be fine. a 120x2 rad is plenty for the CPU/NB loop.

And google your case and the word Watercool to find others who have done the same case, it helps.

You got questions on liquids to use or fans etc, please ask.
a b à CPUs
a c 330 K Overclocking
September 17, 2008 1:08:44 PM

NP Conundrum...it is quite easy to misinterperet typing on the web; which also makes it very important to speak exactly what you wish to say and how you want it to be said. I will agree that there isn't as much specific advanced knowledge on our WC forums, but also remember, Tom's is mostly a general, generic forum for all hardware and software topics. Many of the forums you listed are OC or advanced tweak-specific so would have a higher percentage of advanced knowledge users. Not a problem, though. Here we tend to hit many different forum options, and many of us lend knowledge to the newbies and first timers who are wanting to get their feet wet (so to speak). It's not that we know as much as most ( I certainly don't claim to) but we feel a community need to at least educate the new guys (and gals) so they at least don't make the mistakes we all made when getting into WC...or even PC building and modding.
a b à CPUs
September 17, 2008 2:11:27 PM

thanks Conumbrum. it did spur me to learn more. However, it seems that depending on the site and posters...there are a lot of opinions out there.

I build my own kit last night, but haven't pulled the trigger yet pending some more research. I'm using the same pump (MCP655 - variable speed), the DD Black-Ice GT stealth 240 radiator, (I am looking at MIPS Northbridge Freezer Chipset Water Block (1/2" instead of 3/8") but the only one I found specifically for the Maximus Extreme is out of stock), and Tygon 7/16" tubing.

Now is the DD (HK) Black Ice radiator that much better than the Swiftech H20-220 Radiator? on Xtreme there seems to be people who recomment either.

or...for the $50 range...what would be the best radiator? I see that prices seem to jump (Feser and others) into the $120 range pretty quick. If I piece all the parts together...I end up around $300...should cooling be improved over the Swiftech H20-220 kit to warrant this jump in price? ($200-$300)
a b à CPUs
a c 330 K Overclocking
September 17, 2008 2:45:12 PM

You will find that most radiators perform relatively similar depending on flow and the fans used. Just make sure that whatever you choose, make sure its a dual pass, not a cross flow (both inlet and outlet should be on the same end of the radiator). Thermochill seems to be one of the best at the moment, but are also quite expensive and hard to find. Higher CFM and pressure fans will yield better results no matter what radiator you use.
a b à CPUs
September 17, 2008 4:56:51 PM

thanks Rubix. For fans, I was going to use 2 scythe 68cfm fans. will these fans be enough? or should I look for higher cfm fans?

thanks again...to everyone
September 17, 2008 7:22:22 PM

japps, is your rad going to be internal or external? If it is external you could even aid your cooling capabilities even further by using 4 fans in "push-pull"
a b à CPUs
September 17, 2008 10:09:40 PM

it will be an extrenal configuration. I was going to get the Swiftech seperator block to mount the radiator away from the back of the case. Do you have any other suggestions on a good mounting system?
a b à CPUs
September 18, 2008 1:55:22 PM

ok, thanks Conumbrum, Rubix and Phreejak...I finished ordering my parts last night. here's what I got:

- Swiftech Apogee GTZ CPU waterblock
- MCP655 - variable speed pump
- Feser X-Changer Dual 120mm Xtreme Performance Radiator
- MIPS Northbridge Freezer
- Tygon 7/16" tubing
- other incidentals

on the downside...total cost is around $440 with fluid/shippnig/tax and all. So I have to explain to my wife when she opens the creditcard bill that the original kit (Swiftech H20-220) I "sold" her on at $200 has now become $440.
a b à CPUs
a c 330 K Overclocking
September 18, 2008 2:36:48 PM

That seems a little high...I could see maybe ~$300-350...where did you order from?

Little green (or other color) bottle of fluid additive at Microcenter- $2.59.
a b à CPUs
September 18, 2008 5:54:49 PM

I shopped around for a while...I ordered some stuff at FrozenCPU.com, and Coolerguys.com...couple other sites.

- Swiftech Apogee GTZ CPU waterblock................................$60
- MCP655 - variable speed pump................................................$75
- Feser X-Changer Dual 120mm Xtreme Performance Radiator...$110
- MIPS Northbridge Freezer waterblock.......................................$70
- Tygon 7/16" tubing...................................................................$25
- other incidentals.......................................................................$50
(fluid, Swiftech reservior, Swiftech spacer block) + add in shipping and tax...I couldn't find the pump (not the "B" model) anywhere cheaper...and it seemed that the radiators have a lot in the $45 range, then again the $110 range. The waterblocks I could have skimped...but as Conumdrum pointed out, and I confirmed on numerous other sites...you don't want to skimp on the waterblocks.

This was much more expensive than my original intent of the Swiftech H20-220 for $200 at Newegg.
a b à CPUs
a c 86 K Overclocking
September 18, 2008 9:18:16 PM

You bought great stuff. Yea it costs. The rad you got is a VERY nice rad. Too bad danger Den is out of the Fesser 360 rads for $100, Or I could of sent ya there. I got one for future use, just sitting in a box now.

I spent a tad over $600 to WC my CPU/NB/GPU with a full cover GPU block, but I did my work like you have and got great stuff.

I'd like to talk liquid a bit. You have a full copper/brass loop so no worries about corrosion. You haven't mentioned the need for UV lights or color in the loop. The simplest, cheapest, and least trouble free liquid is Distilled water and 2-3 drops of Petras PT nuke. It's cheap and the tiny bottle will last you at least 20 builds/drains.

I could link you to all sorts of Fesser/Hydrix/etc fluid oddities clogging loops, but it's all on the sites I linked ya to.

Ohh some use a some quality antifreeze in small quantites. Sure why not but it's not needed. Kinda a holdover from the old days when peeps had dissimilar metals in there loops.

Make sure you clean the rad with boiling water, shake, rinse, repeat at least 5 times. Open the pump and look for stuff in the impeller. I had small pieces of packing foam in mine. Take it slow, check fittings 3x, leak test with no power on the PC, just power up the pump, let it run for 24 hours checking for leaks. Umm..... Don't let the pump run dry when filling it, the ceramic bearing will overheat very fast. You will need to fill the loop, bump the pump at least a few times. You will have bubbles in the rad, it takes time to get rid of all the bubbles, maybe even a day. Turning the pump down to 3, tapping hoses, rortae the rad, pinching hoses all works.
a b à CPUs
September 19, 2008 3:39:23 AM

thanks for the cleaning advice. I already had distilled bought for it, but hadn't even considered cleaning the rad with boiling water. I'll make sure I take my time in assembly. Thanks again...you're a knowledgeable guy...caught some posts over at xtreme too. I also bought the IC diamond thermal compound.

Any thought to Water Wetter? I use it in motorcycle racing (instead of antifreeze in case of a wreck it's slick on the track). Water wetter is made by redline and claims to make distilled water 30% more heat aborbing. (I run Distilled water in my bike with Water Wetter)
a b à CPUs
a c 86 K Overclocking
September 19, 2008 12:01:38 PM

Ohh please don't use WW. It's perfect for bikes and racecars. It is bad for WC since we went to inpingment blocks where in the block we want the water to bounce like crazy in odd random patterns to pull the most heat. And is known to leave slime after running a long time. Racecars etc don't run 3000 hours in a year. It's a holdover from the old school days.

At the temps we run, water is almost the perfect medium. Distilled due to no additives, no buildup and cheapness is perfect. All ya need is biocide. Even the right aquarium stuff at your local store works, but since that tiny bottle is so cheap and lasts so long why bother? I'd use aquarium stuff, but no one has ever said "BUY THIS STUFF, with brand etc. I just know what I use is very popular by many very experianced WC dudes.


Distilled and Petras PT Nuke. Unless you want your water to glow. A new thing is colored tubing or UV reactive tubing. UV CCFL mini flouresent lights are pretty cool. In my son's Antec 900 I got two 12" red CCFL lights for the inside of his case. Very bling! It IS very cool to be all shiny. Lights were only $6 at Petras.

Danger Den just released their rebranded colored and UV tubing, it's great quality and looks great. Feser (manufacturer maybe) has the same stuff too.

http://www.dangerden.com/store/onsale.php?onsaleid=19
a b à CPUs
September 19, 2008 3:31:45 PM

thank on the WW advice. after your last post, I ordered some PT Nuke. I'm not into the glowing crap...function defines form. (sign of my age, 40th is Monday). I ordered some Feser distilled and some of their performance fluid. This was before I read you post. I'll just run distilled and PT Nuke. Now in the future, would the Feser 240 rad be able to handle adding a GPU block?, or would I have to go to a 360 rad? Right now I was mostly concerned with the NB (been causing me BSOD whenever I overclock the FSB) and the CPU. Right now I have a QX6850 in...just got a QX9770, but I heard that they run hot...so I figured I would change over to water
a b à CPUs
a c 86 K Overclocking
September 19, 2008 8:29:56 PM

It probably won't be able too. Most of us run a 360 rad for CPU/NB/GPU.
!