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Thinking of adding a peltier and cold plate...suggestions?

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September 17, 2008 11:10:36 PM

Righto, first the reason I want to go into the realms of peltier cooling;

1: I'm bored

2: Spare £40 in 50 pence's' :D . ( Yeah I'm sad, i save all my coins in the year then spend it on a prezzi for myself.. you may laugh though I have £480 just in £2 coins so :p  back to you). I have pics for you none believers so no flaming :non: !

3: My CPU water loop atm isn't creating the temps i'm expecting;

4.0Ghz @ 1.36v = 38C idle - 55-60C load.
EK supreme -> 6.5LPM (1.69 US gallons per min) pump with 1.5m pressure head --> ThermoChill PA120.1 --> 76 CFM fan --> 3/8" tubing.
According to the link data it should handle about 175W of cooling capacity. Remounted the w/b several times making only a 2-3C difference.

http://www.thermochill.com/PATesting/index.php#PA120

I understand that I will have to worry about condensation (soaking PC in diesel as we speak :kaola: ), I also have roughly worked out i can bodge/connect the 245W peltier contacts to my PSU (880W Hiper with 4 dedicated 12V rails) as i understand it draws around 20 Amps. My entire rig draws: CPU 78W @4.0ghz, combined GFX with o/c tops 380-400W. That gives me around 350ish watts to play with taking into account the 2 water pumps and rest of the system etc...

Main question is, if my CPU water loop can barely restrain my CPU atm will it be able to cope with the hot side of the peltier? If not what could i do to improve it (though I can't fit a PA120.2 rad in replacement of the PA120.1 inside my Lain Li)? If so, i can't find anything about whether you can directly mount the peltier onto your CPU or if you definitely require the cold plate between the CPU and Peltier? Although i'm guessing the cold plate also gives you a handy deep base to mount the gasket (which i can 'borrow' from work ;) )?

My goal is to have a 24/7 4.4Ghz minimum, I don't care too much about voltage(yeah i know the warnings!) as long as it last till January, my rebirthing ;)  period, I don't really care :) . All for the lofty sum of £40.

Just like to build things, tiz all. You could suggest these, but here's my views... Going phase is cheating unless you build the refrigeration units yourself, LN2/Dry Ice is fine as it's custom though not practical 24/7.

As a note of interest for the reader, my GFX loop keeps both cards @ 100% load below 43C, since removing the CPU from the original loop. Idle at 27C Physics - 30C Primary display adapter.
EK full cover waterblocks --> ThermoChill PA120.3 --> MCP355. 3/8" tubing
September 18, 2008 2:27:33 AM

Umm, why are you soaking your pc in diesel? Assuming it is di-electric it will only work so long as you keep your pc submerged. If you really want a submerged pc mineral oil is a much better option. If you are just trying to avoid condensation you are supposed to use neoprene around the socket.

There is no way you can expect to cool that TEC with a 120.1 rad. I would recommend at least 120.2 if not 120.3. Swiftech makes a bracket to allow you to mount the rad outside your case if space is an issue.

Most people who run a TEC usually use a second psu as they draw alot of amps, usually more than 20a although I don't know which TEC you are going with.

I am not super up on TECs, as I don't use them to cool my comp, but I do know the basics. If you want to know more check out this forum. They should be able to answer just about everything
September 18, 2008 6:52:14 AM

Must've of been a lack of sarcasm in that diesel comment :cry: ...

I thought of how to fit a PA120.2 rad inside my case last night that 'should work' (getting the tape measure out after work). Would adding the 120.2 rad alone, be enough to drop the CPU temps by say 10C (a drop of this magnitude would allow me to run 4.4Ghz 24/7). As far as I can see the one 120.1 is over-rated for the measly 73W coming of the CPU?

Thinking of this peltier which I believe is sufficient to cool singles and dual's, but not quads, it's only £5 on ebay stores: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/2408/exp-01/245W_Pott...

Thankyou for the link, I'll start perusing around. The T.E.C sticky in that forum looks top notch at a glance :) .
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September 18, 2008 10:00:32 PM

You should go with the 120.2 The 120.1 was barely big enough for your heat load. Also TEC's generete more heat than they pull out, so a 120.1 and a TEC definately wouldn't help. Your temps were not that bad to start with, but they will drop with the 120.2.

Head over to OC forums and xtreme forums for more input on TECs please.
September 18, 2008 11:05:23 PM

No prob's Conumdrum. Had a very through read through of the TEC stickies on xtreme forums, my conclusion is it's not worth the hassle/practicality.

I've thought and measured till alc was required to clear things up... my new solution is to add another 120.1 rad to my CPU loop. Turns out i can't squeeze a 120.2 rad in. Having one 120.1 mounted on the left hand side of my case works, so adding another directly opposite at the right hand side (beneath the HDD cradle) will work, aswell as becoming aesthetically pleasing symmetrically. Although it bumps my budget to £50. meh what the hell, after my month off work (cash on the side eherm..) i'll fit it, then hopefully i'll see some positive temp changes.

Thank you for the lesson's/pointers, it's been an enjoyable dream though thats as far as it goes...
September 21, 2008 7:39:33 AM

Actually, the TEC would have dropped your temps by about 10-12 degrees, but you woould have been dumping more heat into your loop and if you had any other devices on the loop, you would have had to put a TEC on them as well to keep them in profile.

Most systems I have seen that do decide to use thermoelectric cooling go with a dedicated power supply to prevent them from overloading the 12v rails on their primary power supply. You will put more energy into the loop, though, and I agree, you would be better served by adding more cooling into your loop as opposed to dumping more heat into it. The only reason I can see going thermoelectric is if you are trying to achieve sub-ambient for a better OC.

Another idea you might want to look at is evaporative cooling. You can build a heat exchange system using a water tower (also called a water bong) that you can build using a shower head, aluminum screens, and PVC pipe. Set up the shower head at the top of the pipe, and position the screens to that it slows the water spray and allows it to drip back to the bottom of the pipe. Set up your heat exchange at the bottom of the pipe (immerse a radiator or heater coil in the water and run it back to you computer, so you can keep that in a closed loop). As the water drips from the top to the bottom, you lose a certain amount to evaporation, and the energy lost to the process lowers the water temperature. In most environments, you can get sub-ambient, though the humidity in your room will go up quite a bit. If you do this, though, you do have to add antibiotics to the fluid (bleach works just fine, though it does a number on the metal radiators) as well as check your fluid levels on a daily basis. But I have seen sub-ambient temps achieved with this setup for a lot less than what someone would spend for a TC setup, and a lot friendlier on the electric bill as well.

As with TC cooling, you still have to use silicone conformal coating, dielectric grease and neoprene rubber to combat condensation wherever your water blocks are exposed.
September 21, 2008 10:38:05 AM

My goal was to go sub ambient or even to shave 10C off the Load output. Unfortunately work has decided to send me to a sandy place again that extends over Christmas and my annual upgrade timeline.

I shall look further into sub-ambient cooling, as doing this beforehand now seems to be a waste of several months in PC idleness...

The 'water bong' method of cooling is a new concept to me, my case modding brain can easily be engaged and I already have a very rough idea how I could pull this off.

Think of a transparent ant colony with the bottom fluted to fit the rad and oversized perspex channels guiding the water. Of course it would be open top to allow for the evaporation, then the 'shower head' could be copper tubing with holes in the bottom feeding the 'ant colony'. All mounted on the side of your case so you see your components in the lovely 'tarmac shimmer' :)  ?

Anyway it's just an idea atm, but thanks Houndsteeth for the broader view on sub-ambient cooling.
October 24, 2008 9:34:41 PM

Dear closed-deal, (or anyone that has patience and a little time to share a little knowledge). I don't know if you will get this message if you do can you please contact me re: peltier plate, I have many questions but don't know where to turn. New to this. I need info on what this is, how it works, just the basics in simple terms, I'm trying to impress my new boss, actually not really trying he asked me to research it and I'm getting lost, big time. Thank you so much if you can spare the time.
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