Seeking Advice

[jmichaelstone]

Quick background: I've built a few computers in the past, and always enjoyed doing it. My last one is about two years old now, which is generally about how long I go before getting/building a new one. THIS time, however, I thought I'd try something new: I got the 24" 2.8GHz iMac. It's absolutely beautiful (even though the display size is 6" smaller than my old one, which I now use here at work). My desk has never looked so uncluttered. Very sexy-looking machine.

And I absolutely hate it. Without going into some Mac vs Windows tirade, the good that has come out of this is that I know, without a doubt, I'm squarely in the PC/Windows camp, for better or worse. I'll be returning the iMac tonight or tomorrow.

Instead, I now want to build another PC. I love this part. The researching components, shopping around, the anticipation, putting it together, and the payoff is always a lot of fun. Good times!

I'm really not sure where to start this time, though. My last one was an AMD, but I believe Intel is king of the hill right now, which suits me just fine. Aside from the processor, I'm not sure what motherboard to choose, whether to do one large hard drive or two smaller ones in a RAID 0 setup, whether my current video card is sufficient for the new system, or what the best choice would be for memory. I'm hoping you brilliant folks can offer some help.

The Details
Budget: $2,200 (US) - no monitor needed, entire budget is for the box
Uses: Web and graphic design using Adobe CS3 (not video, though), gaming, general computer use
Looking for:
■ The fastest system I can get for that price
■ At least 4GB of memory (for CS3)
■ At least 500GB of storage space (redundancy not a concern)
■ As quiet a computer as feasible (open to water-cooling, but maybe too expensive?)

Bearing all that in mind, if you are so inclined, I'd really love to see what everyone's recommendations might be for a new system.

A couple questions:
■ I currently have a PNY 8800GTX video card, but it only has 512MB of memory -- it seems like all the ones they sell now have 768MB (I got mine in March of 2007). Is mine still any good, or should I replace it?
■ If I need to replace my video card, would it be best to go with a single video card, or do an SLI configuration?
■ I've been running Vista 32-bit, but would it be beneficial for me to go with the 64-bit version instead? What, if any, are the pitfalls of that?
■ Would two, say, 320GB hard drives in a RAID 0 configuration be better than one single higher-capacity drive? By "better" I mean, what's faster?
■ What type and quantity of memory would be best? How significant is the speed difference between run of the mill memory and the high-end stuff with the better timings? Is it actually noticeable?
■ What are my processor options? I've heard good things about the Q6600, but is there a better choice for me?

Wow, this is a lengthy post. My apologies. But I'm grateful for any advice you all can offer.

Thanks!

 

[evongugg]

LIAN LI PC-60BPLUSII W Black Aluminum ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
$139.99

GIGABYTE GA-X38-DS4 LGA 775 Intel X38 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
$199.99

Thermaltake W0106RU Complies with ATX 12V 2.2 & EPS 12V version 700W Power Supply - Retail
$159.99

Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80570E8400 - Retail
$219.99

G.SKILL 8GB(4 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-6400CL5D-4GBPQ - Retail
$189.98

NEC Black 1.44MB 3.5" Internal Floppy Drive - OEM
$6.99

Western Digital Caviar RE2 WD5000ABYS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
$259.98

Saitek PK02 2-Tone USB Standard Eclipse II Keyboard - Retail
$49.99

SAMSUNG 226BW Black 22" 2 ms (GTG) DVI Widescreen LCD Monitor - Retail
$319.99

Logitech G9 Black 5 Buttons Tilt Wheel USB Wired Laser Gaming Mouse - Retail
$74.99

ASUS 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model DRW-2014L1T - Retail
$38.99

Canon PIXMA MP830 0583B002 Up to 30 ppm 9600 x 2400 dpi InkJet ALL-In-One Color Printer - Retail
$179.00

Creative 70SB046A00000 7.1 Channels PCI Interface Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Professional Series - Retail
$135.9

Microsoft Windows Vista 64-Bit Home Premium for System Builders Single Pack DVD - OEM
$111.49

Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound - OEM
$5.99

ZALMAN CNPS9700 LED 110mm 2 Ball CPU Cooler - Retail
$59.99

$2,153.24 Total

 

[RetiredChief]

Evongugg ecommendation OK, except:
- Monitor not req, as you said you didn't need
- Sound card not required, unless you're a sound buff
- Printer, I assume you have (Def of Assume - Mak a a double s of you and me
- Memory Go with 4 gigs unless you are definitely going with XP/Vista 64 bit, Which I do not recommend Vista 64 yet. With XP/Vista 32 4 gigs is recognized; However, you will only have 3.2 +/- 0.3 Gigs available for Program use. Go with the 2x2 modules as this leaves room for upgrade to 8 lated if Vista 64 improves.

- HDD's. I would go with two, One for OP and programs and one for data/files. To Raid 0 or not has been a hot topic here for some time. Do a searce under Harddrives for Raid 0. I use 4 HHD. Two in raid 0 for XP pro 32, and two in raid 0 for Vista 32. Both are partitioned in to two logical drives C Active and E on one and D (active and F on 2nd. I tend to favour Segate 2 Segate 750 Gig 7200 RPM/w 32 $150 ea. @ newegg.

Total cast approx $1500

 

[ImajorI]

To your questions:
1. I'd reuse your 8800 GTX
2. I would go single card
3. In your price range consider Vista 64 Ultimate and 8 gigs memory (4 x 2)
4. I would consider 2 hard drives of 500+ GB
5. DDR2 800 is the best price to value currently for you 4 x 2 GB
6. THe Q6600 is great but a new quad core is coming that may be better

Look at this power supply PCP&C Silencer 750 and consider nice sound for gaming like these Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 Speakers.

 

[amd_fanboi]

i'd say hold up on the GFX front, till the sit settles a bit...

 

[othellomcbane]

Microcenter has the q6600 in-store for $200 dollars right now, making it a ridiculously good deal and cheaper than the dual-core e8400. If you can't wait for the 45nm quads (which probably won't be a HUGE step up and will cost a lot more than $200), you can't really go wrong with a q6600.

 

[RetiredChief]

Still not convinced Vista 64 is the way to go. Granted you can go to >4 Gigs ram, But this is ofset by the bloat in Vista. My son (Part owner in Electronic design, does a lot with video) tried Vista 64 - REMOVED it as it was 25 % slower than XP 32 bit. He has a 3 grand dual quad setup.

My other Son is an IT manager and does Web design on the side. He is planning on getting vista, ONLY so he can answer questions.

Bottem line is - go vista if the added security is worth it, For performance go XP for the time being. With two (4 for 2 sata raid 0)HDD, you can dual boot.

 

[resonance451]

Screw Vista 64, it's a ridiculous idea. 8gb of ram recognized which will give you no better real-world performance, and the OS has lots of driver problems.

You don't even need 4gb of RAM to work with CS3. I know; I've used several systems with different speeds/amounts of RAM on CS3, and 3gb is plenty enough. Get either 2x2gb sticks, or two 1gb sticks in dual channel and two 512 sticks in dual channel if you're running XP. Vista 32-bit would get you 4gb of RAM, but end up using a good portion of the 1gb you'd gain for its system resources.

I would go either high-end intel dual core or mid-range quad core with a motherboard that can support high-speed DDR2 ram. My personal favorite case is the Coolermaster Stacker 830 SE, which I just bought for my dream system. I got it for $160, but apparently it's now retailing for $250. Even so, it's better than any other case I've used, and that's saying something, given that I prefer it to some $300 and $400 cases. I'd go for air cooling, and as long as you're running stock speeds, there's no worry about temp so not as much noise from fans. I wouldn't bother watercooling for a variety of reasons, the least of which is the fact that it's more expensive and you're probably going to be running stock speeds.

Get a higher capacity single drive. The disadvantage to RAID is that the data is shared between two drives. That means if one of the drives fails, your data is lost, which basically means double the likelihood of failure or more. Be sure to get 7200rpm sata drives.

And as for your video card, that card is plenty powerful enough. If you want additional power, I'd just get another one (same model) and put it in SLI, rather than going and buying an 8800 Ultra.

 

[jmichaelstone]

Wow, guys. Thanks for all the advice. Keep it coming, if you've got anything to add. The more I know and the more perspectives I get, the better-equipped I'll be to choose wisely.

I've been using my old computer here at work (because it's a billion times faster than the dinosaurs they give us to work on), so I've pretty much decided not to cannibalize any parts from it. Which means I'll be building from scratch. Just as well, to get a nice clean start.

If I decide to get two video cards and go SLI, which two would give me the most bang for my buck? It needs to provide a dual-link DVI port, because I've got the 30" Dell monitor. (Or do they ALL have dual-link DVI these days? I dunno.) I'm running this at the monitor's native resolution of 2560x1600, by the way.

My old computer has a 74GB Raptor, and then a 320GB 7200rpm SATA for storage. Are there any high-capacity SATA drives out there that match or surpass the Raptors? Or at least come close? I'll be happy with at least 500GB total.

<edit>

A few minutes ago, I wrote that I had decided on the E8400 CPU... then I went and read some other posts, and changed my mind back to the Q6600. Nice to see that I'm so decisive.

So, if I go with Q6600, what would be a good motherboard to pair it with (that would support SLI)?

</edit>

As far as overclocking, I'm not completely averse to the idea. I've never really done it, but I'm intrigued. I'd at least like to keep that option open.

Thanks again, everyone.

 

[linuxguru]

e8400 is faster than q6600.

 

[SoiledBottom]

Hey Hey

Are you sure you have gtx ? I thought all gtx (G80) have 768 mb
gts (G80) have 640 , 320 mb
gts (G92) have 512 mb

Nice hard drive http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148288

With the Monitor you have this would be a nice addition http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815315002

Ram - 4 gigs should be enough. I would myself go with 1066 speed of some kingston or crucial

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148070

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148069

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134596

My 2 cents

 

[resonance451]

If you've never done overclocking, I'd read and understand it very thoroughly, because if you don't know what you're doing, you can damage your components.

Linuxguru, what is your definition of faster? The e8400, if I'm correct, is 3.0GHz, but is dual core, as opposed to the q6600 which is 2.4GHz but quad core. Depending upon the application, the quad core does have its advantages.

I had a q6600 for a year and it served me pretty well. You should look for a board that supports at least DDR2 800 and has two PCI-E x16 slots. I'd go for an nvidia chipset for SLI, but that's up to you.

I'd go with an 8800 series card. I prefer the EVGA 8800GT 512, but almost any variant will do, depending upon what price/performance you want.

Get a SATA HDD that's 500gb. You can find a WD Caviar for $99.

 

[rockbyter]

The vista hatred is strong with this one. If you plan ahead, check for all new drivers for vista 64 bit, and that you are going to have applications that have no issues, then all things point to Vista for everybody. Sure XP SP3 is coming, but so it Vista SP1 in just a few weeks. If you stick with XP now, you are going to buy vista anyways in the next year or 2. We all are (its the microsoft way). Spending a little bit of time getting to know the OS, you can disable security, turn off the eye candy and hell, make it look and act like XP if you want, but it will give you a bit more of a future proof solution. With the amount of hardware you are throwing out there, Vista isnt going to have these performance issues or "25% slower" problems.

 

[resonance451]

Stay with 32-bit. Eventually the driver issues will be worked out, but Vista 32-bit is the best current option.

 

[jmichaelstone]

Hey again...

Well, I've been using Vista on my current machine since the day it was released. Aside from the fact that I couldn't upgrade from XP (i.e. I had to do a clean installation of Vista), I haven't had any problems at all. XP may be faster, I guess, but I've had zero complaints with Vista. Maybe I'm in the minority on that score, but I do like it better than XP.

Soiled, yeah I'm sure it's an 8800 GTX. I can't find the one I have any more (PNY), because, as you said, they're all 768MB now. But when I got mine, the 8800 GTX had just BARELY come out... and apparently the version I have (512MB) is no longer offered. Which is fine... like I said, it's staying in my old computer. And I've been very happy with its performance.

Resonance, you mention the EVGA 8800GT 512mb. As in... I should get two, and do an SLI configuration? Or just one? And if I did two... would I need, what, a 1000W power supply?

On a somewhat unrelated note, I returned the iMac to the Apple Store this evening. Kind of sad (because it really WAS pretty), but a relief nevertheless. I did so miss the down and dirty complexity of a Windows PC. LOL

 

[Conumdrum]

SLI. Great but many have issues, depends on the app, mobo, drivers etc. A REAL pain. Your GPU as now is fine. It's an new/old school plenty fast monster. You don't need more than 512 unless your 24" max rez and trying (haha) to run Crysis at max settings.

Keep the GPU, make sure your PSU is great quality, http://www.jonnyguru.com/.

Wait till late in 2008 to upgrade the GPU.

 

[jmichaelstone]

Thanks, Conundrum. But I'm leaving the old computer intact, so I have to buy all new components, regardless. Regarding resolution, I'll be running 2560x1600 (30" monitor), so I probably can't skimp on graphics. But, no, I won't be running Crysis at max settings. I probably won't be running Crysis at all. Heheh.

But if there are problems with SLI, maybe I should avoid it. In that case, is the 8800GT the best choice for a SINGLE card, or what might be a better choice?

Thanks again, y'all.

 

[ImajorI]

Evongugg's suggestions are great except I'd get a quad core. Overclocking is safe, easy and can greatly increase performance for no added money.

If you read the forums (http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/235320-44-gaming-computer-vista) you will see plenty of support for Vista 64. Most that have tried it are loving it. At stores like Circuit City and Best Buy you can't buy a computer with XP on it anymore. Why would you build a new nice system with an OS being phased out?

Just my opinion but, go with the new OS, plenty of ram and a nice quad core. Programs are demanding more and more ram every year. I just upgraded from a 5 year old system from 264 MB to a new one with 4 gigs of ram. Five years ago 264 mb of ram was alot. Future programs will also begin utilizing the quad cores more as time goes by.

The 8800 GTX is still a great card, if you can reuse your old one do it. Wait till another significantly better card comes out then upgrade your card. If you need a new card now the 8000 GT or GTS is considered the best price to performance.