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Whats thje point of PCI express x1 slots

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March 19, 2008 8:50:46 PM


I install motherboards in old pcs and new pcs...

I just cant justify anyone using pci express x1 cards.....

( the little connector in the expansion slots )

I have got my self 2 tv tuner cards just to justify myself that pci x 1x actually does something usefull over pci.....

made by pinnacle

But there aint many more uses for it, is there ?

no x1 video cards, and the rest are hard to get hold off

Just wanna know your comments..

PCI express 16 - no problem

but pci express 1x - a duffer
a c 169 V Motherboard
March 19, 2008 9:12:28 PM

Sound cards, RAID controllers, external E-SATA drive connectors...

Many manufacturers of these types of cards see no reason to move from PCI to PCI-E as the available bandwidth from PCI is sufficient.

-Wolf sends
March 19, 2008 9:44:18 PM

Wolfshadw said:
Sound cards, RAID controllers, external E-SATA drive connectors...

Many manufacturers of these types of cards see no reason to move from PCI to PCI-E as the available bandwidth from PCI is sufficient.

-Wolf sends


just as i thought

none what so ever

if they want to dump the pci format in favour of pci express then the motherboard manufacturers will have to do more to move it along......

all of them seem to be chicken, by the looks of it....
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March 19, 2008 9:59:50 PM

ISA and PCI overlapped by 5 years or more while things were phased between them, I wouldn't expect this transition to take less time. It is all about legacy support, especially in the business arena. Hell it took more than a year just to get PCI-E graphics slots, let alone the smaller 1x and 4x on the common market.
March 19, 2008 10:36:21 PM

The PCI-e x1 is the legacy version of the AMR riser slot found on older PCs. It's got a limited use and shares a lot in common. Truthfully, the slot has some high points, but many Mobo manufactures fail to create a 'slot easement' for this bus slot. Consequently, some of these X1 cards interfere with either North/Southbridge heatsinks or capacitors that are mounted directly in line with the x1 card. I'm wandering if many mobo manufacturers consider it as 'token' hardware, or unused/unneeded hardware.


a b V Motherboard
March 19, 2008 10:46:11 PM

They might as well kill PCIe x1 and use the connectors/lines,etc for some thing else like FireWire(?), don't know if it's possible though.
March 19, 2008 10:58:32 PM

Hellboy said:
I install motherboards in old pcs and new pcs...

I just cant justify anyone using pci express x1 cards.....

( the little connector in the expansion slots )

I have got my self 2 tv tuner cards just to justify myself that pci x 1x actually does something usefull over pci.....

made by pinnacle

But there aint many more uses for it, is there ?

no x1 video cards, and the rest are hard to get hold off

Just wanna know your comments..

PCI express 16 - no problem

but pci express 1x - a duffer


Ultimately a PCIe slot with any number of lanes is a PCI killer. PCI slots share bandwidth between them. 133Mbyte/s will be fine one active periphal/HD raid card but not 2+. Since PCIe 1x start at an aggregate bandwidth of 500Mbytes/s (250Mbytes bi-directional) which is serial point-to-point it is a much more powerful solution than the shared, parallel architecture of the PCI bus.

I like the fact that you can put smaller PCIe cards into multi-lane slots. Like I have a Firewire 800 controller which is 1x in a 4x (16x physical) lane PCIe slot. (Why?? Cause its a server board with only 1x PCI slot and lots of PCI-X slots)

The sooner PCI is killed off the better as far as I am concerned... Its like the ISA standard - a relic of yesteryear!!


Bob
March 19, 2008 11:12:57 PM

theaxemaster said:
ISA and PCI overlapped by 5 years or more while things were phased between them, I wouldn't expect this transition to take less time. It is all about legacy support, especially in the business arena. Hell it took more than a year just to get PCI-E graphics slots, let alone the smaller 1x and 4x on the common market.


Everytime I open a case to diagnose a problem and see an ISA port I shudder.
March 19, 2008 11:18:22 PM

Lord Gornak said:
Everytime I open a case to diagnose a problem and see an ISA port I shudder.


Everytime you open a case and see an ISA port, the bill for opening the case is likely more than the value of the computer :D 
March 19, 2008 11:26:28 PM

Hmmm, I wonder how much shuddering would occur if you opened a case to see a vesa local bus slot...still in use by a rather long video card?

Yes, I know...it belongs in a museum.
March 19, 2008 11:32:21 PM

zenmaster said:
Everytime you open a case and see an ISA port, the bill for opening the case is likely more than the value of the computer :D 


Seriously!!! I always try to convince the older folks that it's much cheaper to transfer your data to a post-1999 system than to continually try and repair problems with the old system.
March 19, 2008 11:35:11 PM

onestar said:
Hmmm, I wonder how much shuddering would occur if you opened a case to see a vesa local bus slot...still in use by a rather long video card?

Yes, I know...it belongs in a museum.


I think I would shudder, and then cry a little inside.
March 20, 2008 12:19:16 AM

EISA baby! thats high performance compaq right there.

PCIe x1 slots can do video, audio, networking, raid, simple IDE or SATA controller, Firewire, or USB, and any combination of those at the same time. As PCIe gets more popular we will see more cards, but right now there isn't much demand as everything is included built into the motherboard now anyways. Before PCIe 2.0, we were seeing the problem that if you have 2 video cards installed ALL other pci express slots were disabled and useless. with the additional lanes provided by the 2.0 specification we can have 2 video cards and an x-fi gamer card or whatever we really want.
a b V Motherboard
March 20, 2008 12:43:28 AM

Hellboy said:
I install motherboards in old pcs and new pcs...

I just cant justify anyone using pci express x1 cards.....

( the little connector in the expansion slots )

I have got my self 2 tv tuner cards just to justify myself that pci x 1x actually does something usefull over pci.....

made by pinnacle

But there aint many more uses for it, is there ?

no x1 video cards, and the rest are hard to get hold off

Just wanna know your comments..

PCI express 16 - no problem

but pci express 1x - a duffer


PCIe x1 makes perfect sense for a wide variety of cards, it's just taking a long time to see these adapted. Lots of people have RAID cards for example, and PCIe is fast enough for a low-end RAID 5 array whereas PCI is not. You'd might as well be saying PCI is worthless and we should all go back to ISA.
March 20, 2008 12:53:53 AM

At my work, we made a low end storage server that uses a PCI RAID card, but was suffering poor performance due to having a PCI gigabit card too. Rectified this by using PCI-E 1x Gigabit cards and now the system runs sweet. :D 
a b V Motherboard
March 20, 2008 1:03:07 AM

PCIe x1 is perfect for dual-port gigabit cards as well.
a b V Motherboard
March 20, 2008 1:27:27 AM

It's all about serial connectivity. No complaints about moving from PATA to SATA even though IDE133 was more than enough to handle the I/O, moving from the PCI bus to PCIe is the same idea.

The PCI bus can only send data in one direction and too many PCI devices could saturate the bus. A gigabit ethernet PCI card requires 125MB/sec and the bandwidth on the PCI bus is only 133MB/sec. Plug in a PCI gigabit NIC card and you've effectively used all the bandwidth. Whereas the x1 PCIe is bi-directional has a bandwidth of 5Gbps, or 2.5 Gbps in one direction.

With PCIe you can use an HDTV tuner, a gigabit NIC, a sound card, a firewire card, and a RAID controller without saturating the bus.
March 20, 2008 5:41:42 AM

There are PCIE x1 video cards - I use them every day at work in my x1/x8-only capable systems. I buy so many x1 video cards that I'm probably the only reason they still make a x1 video card :) 

March 20, 2008 5:56:23 AM

They make 1x cards? cool. got any links/pics?
March 20, 2008 6:43:00 AM

chunkymonster said:
It's all about serial connectivity. No complaints about moving from PATA to SATA even though IDE133 was more than enough to handle the I/O, moving from the PCI bus to PCIe is the same idea.

The PCI bus can only send data in one direction and too many PCI devices could saturate the bus. A gigabit ethernet PCI card requires 125MB/sec and the bandwidth on the PCI bus is only 133MB/sec. Plug in a PCI gigabit NIC card and you've effectively used all the bandwidth. Whereas the x1 PCIe is bi-directional has a bandwidth of 5Gbps, or 2.5 Gbps in one direction.

With PCIe you can use an HDTV tuner, a gigabit NIC, a sound card, a firewire card, and a RAID controller without saturating the bus.


Its just everytime I set up a system, theres this lonely pci-x 1 slot with not much purpose......

We just need some more cards for it... Is it really that difficult for the manufacturers to push this format......
a c 129 V Motherboard
March 20, 2008 7:09:25 AM

TV CARD!!!!
a b V Motherboard
March 20, 2008 7:25:25 AM

septic said:
They make 1x cards? cool. got any links/pics?


Check with Matrox, they started doing it a couple years ago.
a b V Motherboard
March 20, 2008 7:56:13 AM

I think the one thing I've seen more than anything else in x1 slots are sound cards.
March 20, 2008 8:42:54 AM

Hellboy said:
just as i thought

none what so ever

if they want to dump the pci format in favour of pci express then the motherboard manufacturers will have to do more to move it along......

all of them seem to be chicken, by the looks of it....


Well, as long as there's only one on any of my motherboards, and one is all I need for a TV Wonder 650, that's fine by me. Right now, the only use I have for a regular PCI card is an eSATA card for my wife's storage needs. I'd hate to buy a sound card and have it be unusable in a few years if and when PCI goes the way of ISA. Would I prefer all PCIe x1 instead of PCI? Yes, but it seems the hardware manufacturers have different ideas.

March 20, 2008 8:52:27 AM

Lord Gornak said:
Everytime I open a case to diagnose a problem and see an ISA port I shudder.


Why is that? Does it mean you have to try to talk the person into a new PC as a 486SX-33 (just doesn't cut it anymore? :lol:  ). A couple of years ago, I found a Cyrix 486DLC CPU I'd saved just for the fun of it. I doubt I could find a 386 motherboard for it if my life depended on it.

I hated LIF sockets anyways. I ranted that having the CPU soldered to the motherboard was an easier install (I built 386SX's for my first PC's). When ZIF sockets arrived, I calmed down a bit, as it was a bit easier identifying pin 1 and I never bent a pin I had to straighten with electronics tweezers with a ZIF socket.

I remember troubleshooting ISA modem, sound and video cards. Never could afford a VLB card back then, and by the time I could get something nice, motherboards had one PCI slot for video. If PCIe x1 is just a newer AMR, then what's the deal with that? I couldn't find an AMR modem so they always went unused. Since I didn't like PCI modems, I went external 33K and then 56K US Robotics instead. Broadband is much nicer, so the march of technology is okay by me.

March 20, 2008 3:05:39 PM

yipsl said:
Well, as long as there's only one on any of my motherboards, and one is all I need for a TV Wonder 650, that's fine by me. Right now, the only use I have for a regular PCI card is an eSATA card for my wife's storage needs. I'd hate to buy a sound card and have it be unusable in a few years if and when PCI goes the way of ISA. Would I prefer all PCIe x1 instead of PCI? Yes, but it seems the hardware manufacturers have different ideas.



Stroll on the day when pci x - what ever it is because by the time x1 will be used mainstream we will proberly have pci-x 32 video cards with 4 processors on each card...
a c 129 V Motherboard
March 20, 2008 10:27:46 PM

Don't quote me on it, but since pci-e works with lanes so when as long as you can physically fit(this includes cutting a 16x card to fit an x8 slot, it has been done) the card it will work in any slot. There is no advantage. you will still only use 1 of the 16 lanes available with your x1 card.

Do you have any x4 slots? some x4(maybe even a few 8's) are open at the end allowing you to install a x16 card in them. For server use i dobt its worth the trouble.

When PCI-E was new toms just used tape to cover contacts and run cards at different speeds....some have taken this farther to CUT a x16 slot(on the card) to fit x8 and lower. or even mod the slot on the board(would make more sense...)

Toms test.
http://www.tomshardware.com/2004/11/22/sli_is_coming/pa...

cutting the slot to make a x16 card work in a x8 board
http://www.poweredgeforums.com/showthread.php?t=1899

There are also risers that may work if you have room and want it enough
http://www.ably.com.tw/pdt/pdtlist.asp?cat=pcie_riser
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