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Building a new machine, would like opinons

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February 23, 2008 1:03:07 AM

Here's the parts i am thinking of getting, questions to follow:

SAMSUNG 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model SH-S203N
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E168...

XFX MB-N780-ISH9 Intel Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E168...

SILVERSTONE OP1000 1000W Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?items=N82E16...

SILVERSTONE TJ09-BW Black Computer Case With Side Panel Window
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?items=N82E16...

Two of these (in SLI)
EVGA GeForce 8800GTS (G92) 512-P3-N841-A3 Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?items=N82E16...

Two of these (for a total of 4gb)
CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM Desktop Memory
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?items=N82E16...

Q6600 (going to use a thermal electric cooler)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?items=N82E16...

Western Digital Caviar SE16 750GB 3.5" SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?items=N82E16...

Planing on 64bit Vista ultimate

OK, now the questions:

Other than price, is there any reason two of these http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/ite...
video cards would be more desirable?
I see that the GTX has a higher memory bandwidth and better ram interface, but slower GPU clock speeds and ram clock speeds. Is the GTX's GPU the older version and not the G92? I have been out of hardware for so long, the last time i bought a video card it was a 5950 ultra and there wasn't so many options when it comes to video cards. Now you can pick the GPU, its factory clock, the amount of ram and the ram interface, ect ect.
Basically here for 100$ i can go from two GTS's to two GTX's but i'm curious as to why these are so cheap relative to other GTX's. If its just the clock they ship at, its easy enough to buy the cheapest one and over clock it yourself with a nice after market cooler.

What's every one think of Vista Ultimate 64bit?

The HDD, i was looking at the 32mb cache seagates 500 or 750gb but i see lots of people have trouble with them... so i decided to get this WD instead... any one have an experience with either drive?


February 23, 2008 1:15:28 AM

Everything looks fine, though a LightScribe drive has always seemed pretty pointless to me. Just lets you doodle on the CDs with the drive.

If you have the money, you might as well go for the GTXs in SLI. The performance increase over the GTS is negligible but hey, it's your money :p .
February 23, 2008 1:25:05 AM

i would say rather go for the X2s if you're going to do that, but otherwise it'sa really good build. WHat's a tehrmo-electric cooler?
Related resources
February 23, 2008 1:53:49 AM

Its a solid state device that allows you to cool the chip below ambient. It's a cheap alternative to a elaborate water cooling system, in some ways better, should be able to take the q6600 well north of 3ghz with it.

Your name says it all, amd fanboy, but sorry, Intel is kicking the crap out of amd on every benchmark I see, even in price. A lot of low end intels are out preforming the new phenoms as well. To each their own.

But as far as the video cards
How much performance really? is it worth the 100$ more? What makes the GTX better? the ram bandwidth and size? Why are the clock speeds so much lower? (575 vs 670)


February 23, 2008 2:10:18 AM

All the GTX basically is, is an overclocked, relabeled GTS.
February 23, 2008 2:45:10 AM

The 8800GTX is better than the 8800GTS G92 at high resolutions. Also, the 8800GTX allows you to add a 3rd card, but the 8800GTS doesn't. The 780i chipset allows three cards, and the PSU you pixked will also support it. If you also have a 24" or bigger monitor then I suggest you go with the GTX to keep the Triple-SLI option open.

A TEC is a cooler than doesn't rely on airflow, it actually creates lower temperatures like a fridge. OK, I don't know how it works, but that's the idea.

Very nice choices in general. The WD 750 GB is one of the best drives out there. The TJ-09 is a dream case, I'm very happy with mine. I have added 3 Scythe S-Flex SFF21E fans to it (and kept the original 2 Silverstone fans too) and it does a great job. I only have one 8800GTX in it, but it's designed for two of them, with a fan blowing right between the cards.

For that sort of build you can probably afford an Enermax Galaxy 1000W or PC P&C TurboCool 1000W. Those are the best 1000W PSUs I know of.
February 23, 2008 5:14:46 AM

I like the tj10 with the door but i cant pass up the deal i get i get with the psu and the case.

I have a 226bw monitor and i don't plan on going bigger any time soon.

Hawkspur;
The GTX can't be simply a OC GTS, because its running at a lower clock speed. The GPU's a certainly different, i just want to know what makes the GTX better. ;) 
February 23, 2008 5:44:44 AM

hawkspur said:
All the GTX basically is, is an overclocked, relabeled GTS.


Wrong! The 8800GTS 512MB G92 (only 16 ROP's) lacks the 24 ROPs that the GTX has, time to do more research. :)  If your reffering to the old G80 8800GTS 320/640MB then you are wrong again, it only has 20 ROPs and is a lower binned product. OK time to put the beer down and just walk away! :lol: 

GeForce 8800 GTX GeForce 8800 GTS
Stream (Shader) Processors 128 96
Core Clock (MHz) 575 500
Shader Clock (MHz) 1350 1200
Memory Clock (MHz) x2 900 800
Memory amount 768 MB 640 MB
Memory Interface 384-bit 320-bit
Memory Bandwidth (GB/sec) 86.4 64
Texture Fill Rate (billion/sec) 36.8 24


http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/391/8/
February 23, 2008 6:33:02 AM

Go with a dual GTS (G92) setup, its cheaper, and only a few frame rates below the GTX. Plus has the newer cpu and better cooling solution then the older GTS or 8800GT. I believe a 1000 watt power supply is alittle overkill, you could do just fine with 800 or so. If you are going to game on 64 bit vista, expect driver troubles, and lots of them. While support for 64 bit is increasing pretty rapidly, 32 bit vista is going to be less of a headache, and hands down you will have more driver support also. I would suggest reading up on peoples comments who use the 64 bit os. Look for the common denominator, cuz i gauruntee its gonna look like a crap shoot with people saying either they have issues with a game or they dont, etc. Howdy systemlod, how goes it? I believr he was talking the g92 core gts not the older g80.
February 23, 2008 3:26:41 PM

I saw an XFX 8800GTX today at TigerDirect for $349.99, thats amazing!
February 23, 2008 5:37:44 PM

NO ****? damn, might have to upgrade next month then, lol
February 23, 2008 6:29:57 PM

seems like the prices for that card are set to drop liek a rock from what they used to be
February 23, 2008 7:22:24 PM

Can any one recommend a sound card? or is on board good enough... i have a fairly picky ear, i will hear any distortion. I have a SB Live! 5.1 plat in my computer ( that i built in 2001, so this is a HUGE upgrade for me) and i'm fairly upset with them for the service they gave me with it and the lack of drivers and proper Direct sound support.

Would you guys say the g92 GTS has more potential for over clocking than the g80 gtx??

Are those Killer Nic's worth it?
February 23, 2008 7:28:21 PM

Umm, yeah, lol.
February 23, 2008 7:29:01 PM

blacksci said:
Umm, yeah, lol.


yeah to what exactly? the OC question?
February 23, 2008 7:44:29 PM

hawkspur said:
All the GTX basically is, is an overclocked, relabeled GTS.


i forgive you because i see you are an ATI user.
February 23, 2008 7:59:28 PM

Sorry, yeah to the (g92) you going to see much more diffrence in performance with just stock speeds, let alone oc.
February 23, 2008 9:50:27 PM

Well no the 8800GTX will see bigger gains in overclocking (if you get a good OC) do to the ROPs, 24 ROPs for the GTX and 16 ROPs for the 8800GTS G92. My OC on my 8800GTX saw 15 FPS on Crysis of all games, it wasn't just the FPS that made it better, it was that the game just ran silky smooth compared with stock clocks. With the 8800GTX overclocked, you need a Core 2 Duo past 3GHz to have the 8800GTX start to show off its OC. I'll show you in this picture, >> Look at the average FPS.


By systemlord at 2007-12-07



By systemlord at 2007-12-11
February 23, 2008 10:04:40 PM

r0b0tc0rpse said:
Can any one recommend a sound card? or is on board good enough... i have a fairly picky ear, i will hear any distortion. I have a SB Live! 5.1 plat in my computer ( that i built in 2001, so this is a HUGE upgrade for me) and i'm fairly upset with them for the service they gave me with it and the lack of drivers and proper Direct sound support.

Would you guys say the g92 GTS has more potential for over clocking than the g80 gtx??

Are those Killer Nic's worth it?


Theres only one you should be considering, the X-FI Fatal1ty Pro at NewEgg for around $135-$149.99.
February 23, 2008 11:41:06 PM

Lol, i read his post wrong, seen the (g80) and for some reason, i was thinking the older gts's versus newer, yeah the gtx is going to out perform the gts, by a few frames, and like system lord said, youll probably see some smoother game play with games that will push your card. Damn what was i thinking ? LMAO@myself.
February 24, 2008 12:14:04 AM

i was thinking about the 2x2 instead of 4x1 but with theoretically 4x1 you should have better performance than 2x2 (you should have a higher memory bandwidth) ... and the 2x2's didnt have nearly as good latency. and they don't come bundled with the video card.... so yeah, double wammy. ram is so cheap now, if i ever want to do 8gigs ill just buy 4x2.
February 24, 2008 12:23:05 AM

the GTS is pcie 2.0, and the gtx is pcie 1.0, right?

*sigh*

Why isn't there a pcie2.0 GTX? Is bus speed ever a limiting factor?

why would the release a newer GPU that has a lower memory bandwidth and higher clock speed... SYstemlord, are you watercooling it or using stock cooling?

I plan on running them in sli, either if i go with GTS's OR GTX's... i'm thinking.

IS 1 GTX > GTS SLI? or GTX SLI > GTS SLI > GTX > GTS??

basicly in the newegg combo i get the memory and video card for 313$. (for 1 card and 2 gigs, so double for SLI and 4 gigs)
dual GTS's and 4gb Ram would cost 626
dual GTX's and 4gb ram would cost 768

i am going to see 150$ worth ?
February 24, 2008 12:46:03 AM

GTX SLI > GTS SLI > GTX > GTS is correct. I have no idea if GTX SLI is worth $150 more than GTS SLI to you. It depends on how much money you have in general and how much you play and what you play and how much you care about getting more fps. The price difference is actually higher because GTX SLI will cost you $10 more every year in electricity bills :) 
February 24, 2008 12:50:26 AM

$768 for TWO 8800GTX cards and 4 GB of RAM??? I paid a bit more for ONE 8800GTX and 4 GB of RAM only half a year ago. :ouch: 
February 24, 2008 1:32:22 AM

r0b0tc0rpse said:
i was thinking about the 2x2 instead of 4x1 but with theoretically 4x1 you should have better performance than 2x2 (you should have a higher memory bandwidth) ... and the 2x2's didnt have nearly as good latency. and they don't come bundled with the video card.... so yeah, double wammy. ram is so cheap now, if i ever want to do 8gigs ill just buy 4x2.


I have not done any builds with 2X2 yet, most of the builds I do are 1X2 or less. From what I've read, 4X1 puts more stress on the NB and requires more voltage. You are correct about latency and as far as I know there are no 2gig sticks with Micron chips. Being bundled may or may not be a good thing.
February 24, 2008 2:34:53 AM

r0b0tc0rpse said:
the GTS is pcie 2.0, and the gtx is pcie 1.0, right? Why isn't there a pcie2.0 GTX? Is bus speed ever a limiting factor? Why would the release a newer GPU that has a lower memory bandwidth and higher clock speed... SYstemlord, are you watercooling it or using stock cooling?


The 8800GTX came out over a year ago when a time when there was no PCI-E 2.0, only 1.0. Even the 9800GX2, 9800GTX and 9800GT will not be able use up more bandwidth than PCI-E 1.0, technology isn't there yet. Right now the only thing PCI-E 2.0 is good for right now is offering more wattage through the mobo, from PCI-E 1.0 75 watts and PCI-E 2.0 to 150 watts.


Quote:
Why would the release a newer GPU that has a lower memory bandwidth and higher clock speed...


When you try to shrink a die (G80 90nm) to a 65nm process technology, things don't always go right. Look at AMD's Phenom native quad core 65nm 9000's, they were supposed to be 40% better performing than AMD's older Athlon x2 5000+ processors. Instead AMD's Phenom had bugs that at certain speeds would have trouble, what I'm saying is that even though you design something to perform a certain way, it doesn't always come out like you expected it to.

Quote:
SYstemlord, are you watercooling it or using stock cooling?
I am running stock cooling in a very expensive PC case that has five 120mm case fans that act like a wind tunnel. I have three 120mm one rear two more top rear and one right in front of the graphics card. I could only imagine what my overclock would be on my 8800GTX if I water cooled it.
February 24, 2008 3:27:59 AM

If you plan to use a TEC, what seperate PSU are you going to dedicate to powering the TEC? And insulating the Mobo from condensation in case you go sub ambient with the TEC? And what watercooling system are you going to use to cool the hot side of the TEC? Better do some big research on a TEC before deciding to even think about it.

Maybe start here:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=38...
February 24, 2008 2:50:45 PM

Conumdrum said:
If you plan to use a TEC, what seperate PSU are you going to dedicate to powering the TEC? And insulating the Mobo from condensation in case you go sub ambient with the TEC? And what watercooling system are you going to use to cool the hot side of the TEC? Better do some big research on a TEC before deciding to even think about it.

Maybe start here:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=38...



i plan on using the ultra chill TEC cpu cooler that throttles itself when the CPU isn't under load and does not let the cpu get below ambient.
!