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AMD's New 780G Chipset Has Powerful GPU

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March 4, 2008 12:04:30 PM

The 780G's northbridge chip has an integrated Radeon HD3200 GPU, so you don't need a graphics card or powerful CPU to build a hi-def multimedia computer. Crossfire support lets you add a graphics card for very good gaming performance.

http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/03/04/amd_780g_chipset/
March 4, 2008 12:09:59 PM

Seems the video card/chipset side of AMD are really showing some impressive products and innovation :) 
780G would be fantastic for laptops.
March 4, 2008 12:36:21 PM

I'm sure its a very nice chipset. Pity its tied to the Phailnom. That's kinda like taking a Ferrari and hitching a donkey to the front, yes?

BTW, are they intentionally trying to cause confusion with the (upcoming?) Nvidia 780a?
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March 4, 2008 12:55:12 PM

Quite nice for what it is.
March 4, 2008 1:01:57 PM

Very Nice. Can't wait to overclock a laptop on one of these chipsets. Multi-display with full decoding features. All around winner no doubt about it.
March 4, 2008 1:02:04 PM

Good for low end workstations. Imagin the energy savings (cheep PSU's can be used) and still able to use Vista's graphics. This would be great for office apps and the like. Heck it could even take on some old school games. GJ AMD!
March 4, 2008 1:07:10 PM

snarfies1 said:
I'm sure its a very nice chipset. Pity its tied to the Phailnom. That's kinda like taking a Ferrari and hitching a donkey to the front, yes?

BTW, are they intentionally trying to cause confusion with the (upcoming?) Nvidia 780a?


It runs Athlon's as well, and besides AMD CPU's have attractive price/performance ratios (and the 5000+ BE also OC's pretty well).

And considering that AMD's last-gen chipset was the 680V/G, I would say that 780 is the next logical step up.
March 4, 2008 1:16:29 PM

I must voice my agreement; this seems to be something that AMD has done pretty solidly right after getting so much wrong; it's precisely the sort of thing I'd been hoping for when I first heard about the idea of more solid on-board graphics.

Yeah, the ability to have Blu-Ray playback on a cheap CPU, as well as an extreme level of stability and low TDP? (hence yielding a stupidly high >190% overclocking ceiling?)

This is kinda like to chipsets what Wolfdale has become to CPUs.

And hot dang... Am I seeing it within sight of even my beloved X800XT's performance? Wow, what a world...
March 4, 2008 1:18:45 PM

Wow, something new this year that actually is worth reading about.
March 4, 2008 1:27:20 PM

Man that looks very promising. I mean even though htpc's are becoming more and more common, now you can actually fit a good performing dvr all in one front end in the living room that actually fits with the rest of your entertainment center. I cant wait to build something with this. Low profile, above average graphics (when in hybrid mode), and the ability to playback every possible codec. :bounce: 
March 4, 2008 2:24:54 PM

I'm a little confused. I thought I understood what an average was. On page 13 I see what I think an average is... but on page 12 I see something.... that they're calling an average... but doesn't look like an average.

let me know where I mess up.
378.3 + 283.4 + 166.5 + 168.8 + 231.2 + 213.8 = 1442 / 6 = 240% Average Overall performance improvement. Where does the 352.9 number come from? To me it looks like the new chip is 2.4X as fast, not 3.5X.
a b U Graphics card
March 4, 2008 2:30:38 PM

For the last several years, PC gaming has been under fire from console/gamemakers. I think this is a step in the right direction. Others may too : Tom's Games: What do you see as the biggest threat to PC gaming?

Mark Rein: At Epic Games we have our narrow view of PC gaming. We make these high-end action-movie type games that really push hardware. That's our whole raison d'être. Our view is pretty narrow so you have to take it with a grain of salt but we're interested in preserving the ability to ship those high-end shipped-on-a-disc super high-end experiences that... I said "high-end" twice. That's how high-end; double high-end. That's our goal: to preserve the ability to ship those kinds of action-movie type games on the PC.

The trend with those games is that they're going to the console in huge numbers. There're a lot of reasons for it but to us it's something worth saving. There're a lot more PCs out there than there are Xbox 360s and Playstation 3s combined but unfortunately people aren't using them as entertainment devices; at least not for gaming. If I buy a laptop from Best Buy chances are it won't be able to play the kinds of games we make. That is an area of influence that we'd like to have so we can convince people to fix that situation and have a more level playing field.

Why is a $3000 laptop, or in the case of the Macbook Air, why is a $2000 laptop less capable of playing games than a $280 game console? That's my point. We're not talking about putting an NVIDIA 8800 in every single one of those machines but the Macbook Pro is a perfect example. It's got an 8600 GT perfectly capable of playing games. If that was our minimum spec we'd be in great shape. Everybody could at least get some experience gaming and then decide, "Do I want to continue gaming on my PC? Do I want to upgrade? Do I want to get a bigger high-end rig?"

I think ultimately for the Dells of this world that's a positive thing because they could try and sell [users] a higher-margin device. But those lower-priced devices have to at least give people enough to get the experience; to get bitten by the bug, if you will. That's [the PCGA's] main goal. There're others as well. Piracy's a huge problem. It'd be great to have the industry work together to figure out how to resolve that but it's a much tougher problem. [Piracy's] a huge obstacle but shrinking the difference between the low-end hardware and the high-end hardware is important. It's just limiting our audience.

Thats from the Mark Rein interview. I hope this has that effect, and preserves and lifts the potential of PC gaming
March 4, 2008 3:04:01 PM

Me thinks the laptop and Walmart/Best Buy Desktop PC world is going to be seeing a good change with this. Hell it may be do something to increase AMD's OEM based sales. We might actually see baseline PC's that can do just about anything for less than $500, and if you want to do more recent games, just drop in a hybrid capable discrete card. Not to mention with the price going down on HD and Blue ray drives, a new HTPC build to go with my TV is looking phat right now, especially if they release the 9100e soon.

And to add, I'm expecting things to get real interesting in the laptop arena, 780g chipset plus 9100e if it manages to be good performance with low power=quad core laptop with gaming ability at a cheap price. Not to mention if they decide to do a hybrid xfire solution in those laptops.

Just curious about one thing though, I noticed they said that AMD gave the motherboard manu's the ability to give the 780g's hd3200 dedicated memory, so that it wouldn't need to share system memory. I wonder if some dedicated DDR3 or DDR4 wouldn't have an impact on performance?
a b U Graphics card
March 4, 2008 3:33:12 PM

Yeah, mathos, OEM's will push a lot of this chipsets onto the market. Oh, far as the memory goes, it will still take from your system RAM, but now, you can set how much it does take.
a b U Graphics card
March 4, 2008 3:45:51 PM

You could do this before, set as much as youd like, within parameters. This is different "For the first time ever, AMD is also equipping its integrated graphics chip with a separate memory interface. This allows motherboard makers and OEMs to provide dedicated graphics memory for the integrated chip directly on the board, if they find the GPU's performance unsatisfactory, or don't wish to use a shared-memory solution. In effect, this transforms the integrated on-chip graphics solution into a dedicated graphics card that just happens to reside in the northbridge." Its better/quicker and even possbly can be made to have its own
March 4, 2008 3:51:14 PM

Wow, they made the GPU overclock almost 100% without hardly any effort or instability! But why would they ship it as is with the 500Mhz core where if after much testing they find they can clock it higher and verify its stability, make a great product even better. Not only that the OC provides a massive gain in performance according to the charts. Bravo AMD.
March 4, 2008 3:59:12 PM

bounty said:
I'm a little confused. I thought I understood what an average was. On page 13 I see what I think an average is... but on page 12 I see something.... that they're calling an average... but doesn't look like an average.

let me know where I mess up.
378.3 + 283.4 + 166.5 + 168.8 + 231.2 + 213.8 = 1442 / 6 = 240% Average Overall performance improvement. Where does the 352.9 number come from? To me it looks like the new chip is 2.4X as fast, not 3.5X.

Indeed. The sheet is labeled with "improvement" over the percentages. It does not show the improvement over the 690g but the speed relative to the 690g.

It is 240% faster (2.4).

I have critized the labeling of the sheets in other reviews and now it seems, they have finally fallen victim to it themself.

Good catch.
March 4, 2008 4:03:46 PM

bildo123 said:
Wow, they made the GPU overclock almost 100% without hardly any effort or instability! But why would they ship it as is with the 500Mhz core where if after much testing they find they can clock it higher and verify its stability, make a great product even better. Not only that the OC provides a massive gain in performance according to the charts. Bravo AMD.

Some board manufacturers might go that route. Clock the chip higher and equip it with dedicated memory.

Clocking it higher made no sense for AMD though, since the power consumption would rise and, as it seems, AMD is very careful about that. It uses shared memory which means that performance is not their main concern.
March 4, 2008 4:19:52 PM

Ok Tom's come on... Did I miss something or was this review just a few short of really being a good article?

Which CPU did you use in your benchmark testing? When I look at your VGA charts I see two 2600XT cards, which one did you actually use? For Pray, your charts say 65, your review says 41, so why would a "graphics" bench be off 50%? Was your graphics bench tainted by an underpowered CPU?

The ability to put a low cost GPU in xfire and produce some real speed is of great appeal, but how can we get a feel for this without a clear reference point? If you could bench say, an 8800GT on this system, then compare the xfire, those results could be more meaningful.

This article was better... but it still left some pretty big holes.
a b U Graphics card
March 4, 2008 4:31:45 PM

The charts and this article have what in common? Certainly not power consumption in mind. Are the test beds the same? With power consumption obviously a big part of this article, Id hardly think so. So, no its not confusing to me, nor do I find holes where there isnt any. As for the setup here it is, http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/03/04/amd_780g_chipset... As for comparisons, theyre done thruout the article, using ATI cards.
March 4, 2008 5:25:59 PM

i wonder if Intel fanboys are gonna come in here and accuse the Tom's Hardware of being biased towards AMD...

i'm gonna laugh so hard if that actually happens. =P

Go AMD! =D
a b U Graphics card
March 4, 2008 5:29:15 PM

I hope not. And usually youll only find that in the cpu forum. The graphics forum is usually more subdued
March 4, 2008 5:33:18 PM

bildo123 said:
Wow, they made the GPU overclock almost 100% without hardly any effort or instability! But why would they ship it as is with the 500Mhz core where if after much testing they find they can clock it higher and verify its stability, make a great product even better. Not only that the OC provides a massive gain in performance according to the charts. Bravo AMD.


Because right now AMD's CPUs don't OC as well as Intels so they wanted something to OC better?

This looks good for once from AMD. I can see this helping to push IGP's to new levels cuz you know Intel wont just sit around since their IGP is one of thier to money makers. This may be the push that PC gaming needs.
March 4, 2008 5:37:55 PM

As I said further up, looks like AMD have really pulled something out of the bag with this one!
I'm tempted to build an HTPC with one of these boards and with one of the 45W low-power Athlons you may even be able to keep it silent, with a very good passive cooler.
I'm impressed!
Seems like the 790 chipset wasn't a fluke! :) 
March 4, 2008 5:41:19 PM

that_aznpride101 said:
i wonder if Intel fanboys are gonna come in here and accuse the Tom's Hardware of being biased towards AMD...

i'm gonna laugh so hard if that actually happens. =P

Go AMD! =D


No but in the past few months AMD fanboys have been stating THG is Intel bias when they just show the facts.

But still this looks promising as I think it will help boost PC gamning especially if Intel starts to push out better IGP's too.
a c 107 U Graphics card
March 4, 2008 6:10:22 PM

Value systems are about to get a nice boost in performance...

I do not see any TV(Svid) out.... :(  for those who still use SD tv...

March 4, 2008 6:13:00 PM

jimmysmitty said:
No but in the past few months AMD fanboys have been stating THG is Intel bias when they just show the facts.

But still this looks promising as I think it will help boost PC gamning especially if Intel starts to push out better IGP's too.



Yeah, I've seen some of the AMD fanboys accusing THG being biased... But honestly, I think it really is the writer, not necessarily the website. Like have you read the last article by Floren (I think) Carpentier? What really struck out to me was his conclusion that the quad core Black Edition proc was just as "bad" dual core BE processor. If you read the actual article of the dual core BE (not written by the French dude), the writer actually praised it. Anyway, enough of my AMD fanboy griping...heh.

But yeah, I hope PC gaming makes a comeback. I'm more of a PC gamer than a console gamer.
March 4, 2008 7:22:56 PM

Hmm, I've been using dual 22" HP monitors off the onboard DVI and VGA ports on my Biostar TA690G board for some time. How can this be the first board to support dual monitors?
a c 171 U Graphics card
March 4, 2008 7:23:16 PM

As the article mentioned, this is the first real AMD graphics "card". I certainly hope this is the way of the future. I read this article and really failed to see much of anything bad about this. HTPC use? With a underclocked CPU and a large enough heatsink, you could actually make a completely fanless computer with this. (assuming they still make no fan PSUs.) Overclockable? Ummm, DUH! Low power consumption? Give it another yes. Just about the only thing I didn't see was what audio options were going to be available. This isn't really a bad thing however, as modern onboard solutions sound fine to me.

While their CPUs and video cards haven't been the fastest recently, my hat is off to AMD. Good job on this, I hope you can roll this success into future products.
March 4, 2008 8:49:20 PM

This is good news. I may have to try it out in the WoW box I was planning on building my girlfriend. Newegg has the same board in the review up for $99.99.
a b U Graphics card
March 4, 2008 9:47:41 PM

Ypu. Good to see that AMD is alive and kicking. Hopefully the motherboard manufacturers decides to include on board video RAM instead of shared video RAM. Hopefully ASUS and Gigabyte will do it. With RAM being so cheap right now they might as well do it. It could actually help AMD sell more boards if they do it. Good job AMD!

Quote:
The motherboard's BIOS lets you borrow 128, 256 or 512 MB of RAM from the system's RAM, to allocate it as video memory to the integrated GPU. For the first time ever, AMD is also equipping its integrated graphics chip with a separate memory interface. This allows motherboard makers and OEMs to provide dedicated graphics memory for the integrated chip directly on the board, if they find the GPU's performance unsatisfactory, or don't wish to use a shared-memory solution. In effect, this transforms the integrated on-chip graphics solution into a dedicated graphics card that just happens to reside in the northbridge. AMD has not announced yet whether any of its board partners are considering this sort of move, though.

http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/03/04/amd_780g_chipset...
About time some one did some thing like this.

Wonder what thunderman would say.........
March 5, 2008 12:08:47 AM

nukemaster said:
Value systems are about to get a nice boost in performance...



Especially if the named dual core semprons come out, sounds like a nice small package with a punch.
March 5, 2008 2:51:46 AM

Bert,

thank you so much for the review. i have been waiting so long for intel to include hdcp in its onboard graphics. i was unaware the g35 didn't have it. i suppose i could wait for g45, but amd is here first ... plus i'm in love with radeon hd series ... not a graphics card on the market, past or present, that outdisplays these babies. i just swapped a q6600 for a celeron 420 to cut down on the juice. after reading this news, now i have two processors and a motherboard to ebay. i'm gonna wait on asus to see what they intend to do. the gigabyte board was feature rich, EXCEPT FOR BACKPANEL COAXIAL DIGITAL OUT, absolutely stupid not to include it on the back panel.

anyways, wanted to say thanks again for the review. everyday my media center pc is getting closer to my idea of a dream machine.
a b U Graphics card
March 5, 2008 3:18:24 AM

Here is a better, more in-depth review of the G35, and the 780G, from Techreport.

http://techreport.com/articles.x/14261

Looks like the AMD/ATI merger is finally starting to show real promise.
a c 107 U Graphics card
March 5, 2008 5:43:16 AM

anyone know if this chipset(i know the board in the review does not) has support for TV out? Lots of us are still on SD and that would be a perfect SD(and later upgrade to HD) solution.
a b U Graphics card
March 5, 2008 7:30:37 AM

muk said:
The 780G's northbridge chip has an integrated Radeon HD3200 GPU, so you don't need a graphics card or powerful CPU to build a hi-def multimedia computer. Crossfire support lets you add a graphics card for very good gaming performance.

http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/03/04/amd_780g_chipset/


Intel with there centrino (platform) is powerful yet always lacking in video performance, or with a dedicated video chip, kinda pricey, now AMD has similar performance cpus (well not as quick, but for portable there more then sufficent), cheap, and now there basic of basic IGP is fast and efficent, making there platform overall more usable if you ask me, with vista being video hungry i think overall an AMD laptop would be feel quicker (for lower end atleast).

Since i do a mix of tasks on my laptop but not gaming as a main and use vista, an AMD platform may be my next platform choice in a laptop with this chipset.

With all these attacks on Intel, what and when will intel do something to match?
March 5, 2008 2:20:17 PM

apache_lives said:


With all these attacks on Intel, what and when will intel do something to match?


I suspect that Intel may attempt a chipset with the Atom to compete in this area.

They may even be able to match what AMD has released with their own equivalent Celeron.

At any rate, this is a huge step forward in the right direction, esp. for HTPCs.
March 5, 2008 2:51:15 PM

This is intelligently made.

COOL in every way though I may not understand some of its features but I gonna buy this mobo.

This would be a big hit chipset if available in Intel socket version. ^_^
March 5, 2008 9:41:28 PM

pogsnet said:
This is intelligently made.

COOL in every way though I may not understand some of its features but I gonna buy this mobo.

This would be a big hit chipset if available in Intel socket version. ^_^


Oh I dont think AMD would pass up the opertunity to make this platform available for Intel users. They realy cant pass up the sales at this point.
March 6, 2008 10:13:13 AM

Isnt Intels GMA X4500 HD a responce that can be seen as a competitor?
March 6, 2008 12:08:07 PM

Well I'm thinking about buying this, and throwing it in a low profile Micro Case. I also want to a PCIe TV Tuner in this, so that I can run TV/DVR to my 37" LCD TV. I plan on running 2G of RAM in this and a 320GB HD.

Anyone know what the smallest Power Supply you can go with is? I don't plan on putting another video card in it. I'm trying to do this for very cheap, so I can finally get rid of my Cable Companies DVR since they piss me off all the time.
March 7, 2008 1:50:11 PM

jflongo said:
Anyone know what the smallest Power Supply you can go with is? I don't plan on putting another video card in it. I'm trying to do this for very cheap, so I can finally get rid of my Cable Companies DVR since they piss me off all the time.


Your foolish if you think a media center pc is a worthy replacement for a digital cable box with dvr even if the media center pc has cable card input. :non: 
March 7, 2008 2:27:02 PM

snarfies1 said:
I'm sure its a very nice chipset. Pity its tied to the Phailnom. That's kinda like taking a Ferrari and hitching a donkey to the front, yes?


How's it tied (only, as you make it seem) to the Phenom? Would you really make a high end gaming system out of this chipset? Really?

This setup with a PROPER cpu is definitely my next HTPC.
March 7, 2008 2:32:18 PM

sunangel said:
Your foolish if you think a media center pc is a worthy replacement for a digital cable box with dvr even if the media center pc has cable card input. :non: 



Why is that? This chipset has HDMI output, and the card I would be putting in can handle Coax input, watching and recording TV, and has a remote. I absolutely hate my cable company.
March 7, 2008 3:26:02 PM

jflongo said:
Why is that? This chipset has HDMI output, and the card I would be putting in can handle Coax input, watching and recording TV, and has a remote. I absolutely hate my cable company.


My bad, I understand your comment now. If using standard analog cable tv signal your are correct. However, getting digital cable signals into media center is a pain in the royale-you-know-what. Unless your using cable card, then you must use a digital cable box to get digital channels, which by the way can only be output-ed through s-video at best. Where's the benefit to digital if it has to be converted back into analog to get into media center?

BTW, im not totally knocking on cable boxes and media center. I tried the setup for some time. It finally hit me that if I were to stay the digital cable route my only real option for not throwing money away was just use the cable box dvr. I even went as far as getting a second box for the bedroom. This was a cool setup because I could start watching in the family room move to the bedroom and pick up right where I left off. In fact, I didn't even have to shut off the living room dvr, I could just move to the bedroom and turn it off from there.

I bailed out on this setup after my year promotion was up and setup a dual tuner media center box with just analog cable. The gigabyte board is near perfect so I can get a small computer case and place it in a VCR TV mount hanging below the tv. Before, I had to have a full size computer case...too big, too heavy.

As far as power, an intel q6600, this board, a couple of hard drives, a couple sticks of memory, a dvd burner, and two tv cards will probably hit a max 350 watts (21 amps) at start and smooth out to about 125 watts at idle. So, obviously you'll at least need 350 watt PSU. Overtime as the PSU loses it peak power rating, you'll find it will not boot at times. Thus, you can get a higher rated PSU now, or buy another later when technology has gotten more efficient.
March 7, 2008 5:20:10 PM

I agree. I love this setup and have been waiting years for someone to integrate to give me this capability. In my setup I'll use to bring my digital movie database to my networked home entertainment location without having a massive box next to my AV center. I can now place a capable, wireless networked device into my AV setup with remote control and access to my digital content - all elegantly. Thanks AMD!! Can anyone tell me where to get the Hiper box and ultra-low profile cooler and fan that was mentioned in the setup? I look forward to a response from fans or the author.
a b U Graphics card
March 8, 2008 7:47:51 AM

that_aznpride101 said:
i wonder if Intel fanboys are gonna come in here and accuse the Tom's Hardware of being biased towards AMD...

i'm gonna laugh so hard if that actually happens. =P

Go AMD! =D


GOLDEN SAMPLE! RETAIL VERSIONS WONT CLOCK NEARLY AS HIGH! INTEL IGP's CAN CLOCK HIGHER! ITS COMBIND WITH A CRUD CPU!

lol just had to :D 

just out of interest, will retails work so well? and what about with extra cooling? and i wonder about power consumption, increases, comparing to a similar card?

This is somewhere where nvidia has nothing...
March 8, 2008 9:17:35 AM

This article contains a BIG LIE about Intel's G35 chipset !!
As you can see here http://www.intel.com/products/chipsets/G35/index.htm G35 HAS High Definition Multimedia Interface (HDMI) with HDCP "supporting all HD formats including 720p, 1080i and 1080p." and HDMI 5.1-Audio !!! Also it can play Blu-ray / HD DVD whithout any problems using hardware acceleration (with PowerDVD Ultra) at Full HD (1080p).How I know this ? Because I own an ASUS P5E-V HDMI http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=3&l2=11&l3=584&l4=... !!!
So the "...table compares the integrated graphics units of AMD's 690G, 780G and 780V chipsets, as well as Intel's G33 and G35." it's WRONG !!!
I'm "Tom's hardware" fan but this article it's disappointing at least !
P.S. What about the 780G's Southbridge in comparison with intel's ICHR 8/9 ?
March 8, 2008 5:58:00 PM

^ that's the same question I want to ask...

is 3650 compatible with hybrid crossfire?
!