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Buying Online Warranty Question

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Anonymous
July 4, 2005 11:36:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Hello,

I am considering buying the Pioneer HDTV 4350 and checked prices online.
Some of the prices are very low, however, I am concerned with the warranty.

Does anyone know if Pioneer will / must honor warranty if purchased from an
online (unauthorized) distributor, such as PlasmaHouse, PriceMad, etc?

Thanks in advance.
Anonymous
July 4, 2005 12:12:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Felice wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am considering buying the Pioneer HDTV 4350 and checked prices
> online. Some of the prices are very low, however, I am concerned with
> the warranty.
>
> Does anyone know if Pioneer will / must honor warranty if purchased
> from an online (unauthorized) distributor, such as PlasmaHouse,
> PriceMad, etc?
>
> Thanks in advance.

I don't believe they honor the warranty with audio equipment......authorized
dealers only.
July 4, 2005 3:23:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

If you go to the Pioneer website and view plasma tv's, a pop-up clearly
states that Pioneer does not warranty tv's purchased from unauthorized
dealers.
I have seen some on-line dealers who claim to be "Authorized" dealers.

"Felice" <delcolle@charter.net> wrote in message
news:NfWdnZGD_IIR1FTfRVn-jg@giganews.com...
> Hello,
>
> I am considering buying the Pioneer HDTV 4350 and checked prices online.
> Some of the prices are very low, however, I am concerned with the
> warranty.
>
> Does anyone know if Pioneer will / must honor warranty if purchased from
> an
> online (unauthorized) distributor, such as PlasmaHouse, PriceMad, etc?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
Related resources
Anonymous
July 4, 2005 3:54:32 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Felice (delcolle@charter.net) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
> I am considering buying the Pioneer HDTV 4350 and checked prices online.
> Some of the prices are very low, however, I am concerned with the warranty.
>
> Does anyone know if Pioneer will / must honor warranty if purchased from an
> online (unauthorized) distributor, such as PlasmaHouse, PriceMad, etc?

Check your state's consumer protection laws. In many cases, as long as
the model you are buying is designed for the US market (and sold by
"authorized" dealers), then the manufacturer warranty applies, even if
the manufacturer says it does not.

The basic thinking behind these laws is that Pioneer sold the panel to
PlasmaHouse, etc., so they are de facto an "authorized dealer", whether
Pioneer claims they are or not.

--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/Dilbert/LostNetworkPasswor...
July 4, 2005 5:15:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Felice wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am considering buying the Pioneer HDTV 4350 and checked prices online.
> Some of the prices are very low, however, I am concerned with the warranty.
>
> Does anyone know if Pioneer will / must honor warranty if purchased from an
> online (unauthorized) distributor, such as PlasmaHouse, PriceMad, etc?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
Pioneer will NOT honor warranty on internet purchases. They do not
allow even authorized brick & mortar dealers to sell on internet. Even
Crutchfield does not sell Pioneer TV products on line.
July 4, 2005 7:49:47 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Another thing to remember about warranties:
If you buy a seller's extended warranty, it only kicks in after the
manufacturers warranty expires This was quoted to me at a couple of "Large"
dealerships. So, you may, or may not be covered in the meantime. Another
"cloudy" issue is whether a particular warranty includes "in home" service.
I read one warranty that required you to ship the tv unless you are located
within a few miles of an authorized repair center.
Rule:
Don't take anyone's word for warranty details, demand to read it in print.
When I asked Tweeter for a copy of the warranty (any at all) they could not,
or would not provide it. They said I had to purchase the tv first and read
the warranty in the packing. Boy, I never realized how stupid I must look to
people.

"Felice" <delcolle@charter.net> wrote in message
news:NfWdnZGD_IIR1FTfRVn-jg@giganews.com...
> Hello,
>
> I am considering buying the Pioneer HDTV 4350 and checked prices online.
> Some of the prices are very low, however, I am concerned with the
> warranty.
>
> Does anyone know if Pioneer will / must honor warranty if purchased from
> an
> online (unauthorized) distributor, such as PlasmaHouse, PriceMad, etc?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>
Anonymous
July 4, 2005 8:24:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Jeff Rife" <wevsr@nabs.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d3325bf6e822096989e37@news.nabs.net...
> Felice (delcolle@charter.net) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
>> I am considering buying the Pioneer HDTV 4350 and checked prices online.
>> Some of the prices are very low, however, I am concerned with the
>> warranty.
>>
>> Does anyone know if Pioneer will / must honor warranty if purchased from
>> an
>> online (unauthorized) distributor, such as PlasmaHouse, PriceMad, etc?
>
> Check your state's consumer protection laws. In many cases, as long as
> the model you are buying is designed for the US market (and sold by
> "authorized" dealers), then the manufacturer warranty applies, even if
> the manufacturer says it does not.
>
> The basic thinking behind these laws is that Pioneer sold the panel to
> PlasmaHouse, etc., so they are de facto an "authorized dealer", whether
> Pioneer claims they are or not.

What if they didn't sell it to PlasmaHouse though?

>
> --
> Jeff Rife |
> | http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/Dilbert/LostNetworkPasswor...
Anonymous
July 4, 2005 8:24:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

FDR (_remove_spam_block_rzitka@hotmail.com) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
> > The basic thinking behind these laws is that Pioneer sold the panel to
> > PlasmaHouse, etc., so they are de facto an "authorized dealer", whether
> > Pioneer claims they are or not.
>
> What if they didn't sell it to PlasmaHouse though?

How else could PlasmaHouse get the panel at a cheap enough price to be able
to re-sell it at prices lower than other dealers?

The only other answer is that PlasmaHouse bought it from an "authorized
dealer". This is no different from me buying a plasma from that same
dealer and selling it to a friend. The warranty still applies.

Unless the plasmas these discount houses sell are stolen, at some point,
Pioneer sold the panel to somebody who they "authorized" to resell it. After
that, the warranty has to apply no matter how many steps it took before
the end user got it.

For new items, only ones that a company does not support at all (e.g., a
model designated to be sold only in Japan but purchased in the US through
"grey market" dealers) have any chance that the warranty doesn't apply, and
some states (Masschusetts for one) don't even let the manufacturer off on
those.

--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/OverTheHedge/BrokenInterne...
July 5, 2005 12:23:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

JAS wrote:
> Another thing to remember about warranties:
> If you buy a seller's extended warranty, it only kicks in after the
> manufacturers warranty expires This was quoted to me at a couple of "Large"
> dealerships. So, you may, or may not be covered in the meantime. Another
> "cloudy" issue is whether a particular warranty includes "in home" service.
> I read one warranty that required you to ship the tv unless you are located
> within a few miles of an authorized repair center.
> Rule:
> Don't take anyone's word for warranty details, demand to read it in print.
> When I asked Tweeter for a copy of the warranty (any at all) they could not,
> or would not provide it. They said I had to purchase the tv first and read
> the warranty in the packing. Boy, I never realized how stupid I must look to
> people.
>
> "Felice" <delcolle@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:NfWdnZGD_IIR1FTfRVn-jg@giganews.com...
>
>>Hello,
>>
>>I am considering buying the Pioneer HDTV 4350 and checked prices online.
>>Some of the prices are very low, however, I am concerned with the
>>warranty.
>>
>>Does anyone know if Pioneer will / must honor warranty if purchased from
>>an
>>online (unauthorized) distributor, such as PlasmaHouse, PriceMad, etc?
>>
>>Thanks in advance.
>>
>>
>
>
>
Good advice JAS. Another thing most people don't know: You buy at
circuit city or best buy, they provide service ONLY during the
manufacturers warranty. Warranty runs out, you're on your own.
Anonymous
July 5, 2005 12:23:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Thank you to everyone that has responded to my question. There seems to be
2 distinct opinions on this issue, both differing from each other.
Nonetheless, I appreciated your feedback.

"Curmudgeon" <curmudgeon@buzzoff.net> wrote in message
news:fpkye.42182$du.23829@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
> JAS wrote:
> > Another thing to remember about warranties:
> > If you buy a seller's extended warranty, it only kicks in after the
> > manufacturers warranty expires This was quoted to me at a couple of
"Large"
> > dealerships. So, you may, or may not be covered in the meantime. Another
> > "cloudy" issue is whether a particular warranty includes "in home"
service.
> > I read one warranty that required you to ship the tv unless you are
located
> > within a few miles of an authorized repair center.
> > Rule:
> > Don't take anyone's word for warranty details, demand to read it in
print.
> > When I asked Tweeter for a copy of the warranty (any at all) they could
not,
> > or would not provide it. They said I had to purchase the tv first and
read
> > the warranty in the packing. Boy, I never realized how stupid I must
look to
> > people.
> >
> > "Felice" <delcolle@charter.net> wrote in message
> > news:NfWdnZGD_IIR1FTfRVn-jg@giganews.com...
> >
> >>Hello,
> >>
> >>I am considering buying the Pioneer HDTV 4350 and checked prices online.
> >>Some of the prices are very low, however, I am concerned with the
> >>warranty.
> >>
> >>Does anyone know if Pioneer will / must honor warranty if purchased from
> >>an
> >>online (unauthorized) distributor, such as PlasmaHouse, PriceMad, etc?
> >>
> >>Thanks in advance.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> Good advice JAS. Another thing most people don't know: You buy at
> circuit city or best buy, they provide service ONLY during the
> manufacturers warranty. Warranty runs out, you're on your own.
Anonymous
July 5, 2005 1:19:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Jeff Rife" <wevsr@nabs.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d33625050e4450989e38@news.nabs.net...
> FDR (_remove_spam_block_rzitka@hotmail.com) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
>> > The basic thinking behind these laws is that Pioneer sold the panel to
>> > PlasmaHouse, etc., so they are de facto an "authorized dealer", whether
>> > Pioneer claims they are or not.
>>
>> What if they didn't sell it to PlasmaHouse though?
>
> How else could PlasmaHouse get the panel at a cheap enough price to be
> able
> to re-sell it at prices lower than other dealers?
>
> The only other answer is that PlasmaHouse bought it from an "authorized
> dealer". This is no different from me buying a plasma from that same
> dealer and selling it to a friend. The warranty still applies.
>
> Unless the plasmas these discount houses sell are stolen, at some point,
> Pioneer sold the panel to somebody who they "authorized" to resell it.
> After
> that, the warranty has to apply no matter how many steps it took before
> the end user got it.

So if you buy it from a store, and resell it to your neighbor does that make
you an authorized dealer? No.

Authorized dealers are authorized for a reason. They meet guidelines that
the company sets. A wholesaler is not an authorized dealer, just the middle
man to get the product out.

But go ahead and buy from an unauthorized place and see if you get service.
It's a silly risk to take.

>
> For new items, only ones that a company does not support at all (e.g., a
> model designated to be sold only in Japan but purchased in the US through
> "grey market" dealers) have any chance that the warranty doesn't apply,
> and
> some states (Masschusetts for one) don't even let the manufacturer off on
> those.
>
> --
> Jeff Rife |
> | http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/OverTheHedge/BrokenInterne...
Anonymous
July 5, 2005 4:03:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Felice" <delcolle@charter.net> wrote in message
news:NfWdnZGD_IIR1FTfRVn-jg@giganews.com...
> Hello,
>
> I am considering buying the Pioneer HDTV 4350 and checked prices online.
> Some of the prices are very low, however, I am concerned with the
> warranty.
>
> Does anyone know if Pioneer will / must honor warranty if purchased from
> an
> online (unauthorized) distributor, such as PlasmaHouse, PriceMad, etc?

This is a difficult issue to track down. A few years ago, I purchased a
Denon AVR-5800 receiver from the now defunct Crazie Eddie online. I was
concerned about warranty coverage, and Denon had a policy of covering only
authorized dealer purchases, but based upon the wording of the warranty it
was not absolutely clear. At that time, Denon has a few large regional
service centers, and lots of smaller local service centers. I emailed the
regional service center in Buffalo, NY. They told me that is someone sends
them a Denon receiver accompanied by a bill of sale, they will honor the
warranty.

The authorized distributor issue comes up with lots of products. For
example, Rolex watches have about the most restrictive policy I have ever
seen. If you do not buy from an authorized distributor, you get absolutely
no warranty coverage whatsoever under any circumstances. No online vendor is
ever authorized, and no authorized dealer is permitted to sell online. As a
matter of fact, if you go to the Rolex web site, you will NOT be able to get
a list of authorized dealers. You have to call then, and then they will
provide you with an 800 dealer locater number. Even at that number, you
cannot get a complete list of authorized Rolex dealers. If you call, you
must provide a zip code and they will do a proximity search, but if your
search is a densely populated area, such as NYC, you will not be able to get
all authorized dealers without having a complete list of zip codes and being
willing to spend a lot of time on the phone with them getting dealer names.

Whey do they do this? Presumably, they want to protect their pricing
structure by making it as difficult as possible to shop price, and the most
aggressive price cutting is on the internet, because many internet vendors
don't carry the overhead expenses that stores incur. This policy should be
barred, as it is a clear restraint of trade, but evidently it is legal.
Consumers that want to negotiate their best price will have a very difficult
time when dealing with such manufactures. Interestingly, despite Rolex's
policy, authorized dealers routinely discount their products. I priced a
Rolex watch at an authorized dealer in Scarsdale, NY. I won't mention their
name here, but you can get it from their 800 number. I was immediately
offered a discount of $3,000 on a watch with a list price of $22,850.
Presumably, I could call a bunch of other dealers to comparison shop, but
they would all be brick and mortar stores.

Every dealer is selling the exact same product, in the manufacturer's sealed
box. I believe that allowing only 'authorized dealers' to sell certain
products has little to do with quality control, and everything to do with
artificial restraint of trade. There does not appear to be any recourse.
Anonymous
July 5, 2005 4:26:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

FDR (_remove_spam_block_rzitka@hotmail.com) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
> > Unless the plasmas these discount houses sell are stolen, at some point,
> > Pioneer sold the panel to somebody who they "authorized" to resell it.
> > After
> > that, the warranty has to apply no matter how many steps it took before
> > the end user got it.
>
> So if you buy it from a store, and resell it to your neighbor does that make
> you an authorized dealer? No.

Right, but the warranty still applies, so that's one obvious point where
somebody doesn't have to buy from an "authorized dealer" and still has
warranty coverage.

> Authorized dealers are authorized for a reason. They meet guidelines that
> the company sets.

In general, the only guideline to be an authorized dealer is "don't sell
it at too low a price".

> A wholesaler is not an authorized dealer, just the middle
> man to get the product out.

Ri-i-i-ght. Whatever you say. This would mean that *every* sale is
automatically not covered by warranty if there is a wholesaler between
Pioneer and the final end store, even if the final store is "authorized".

If Pioneer sells something to a company at the "wholesale" price, they
expect it to be resold. This makes that company an "authorized" dealer
in the eyes of the law in *most* states, since Pioneer chose to sell to
them.

--
Jeff Rife | "A rabbit's foot? You slaughtered an innocent
| animal for some silly superstition?"
| "I didn't personally slaughter the rabbit. I shot
| a giant panda out of a tree, and he fell on it."
| -- "Cybill"
July 5, 2005 2:19:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Jeff Rife wrote:
> FDR (_remove_spam_block_rzitka@hotmail.com) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
>
>>>Unless the plasmas these discount houses sell are stolen, at some point,
>>>Pioneer sold the panel to somebody who they "authorized" to resell it.
>>>After
>>>that, the warranty has to apply no matter how many steps it took before
>>>the end user got it.
>>
>>So if you buy it from a store, and resell it to your neighbor does that make
>>you an authorized dealer? No.
>
>
> Right, but the warranty still applies, so that's one obvious point where
> somebody doesn't have to buy from an "authorized dealer" and still has
> warranty coverage.
>
>
>>Authorized dealers are authorized for a reason. They meet guidelines that
>>the company sets.
>
>
> In general, the only guideline to be an authorized dealer is "don't sell
> it at too low a price".
>
>
>> A wholesaler is not an authorized dealer, just the middle
>>man to get the product out.
>
>
> Ri-i-i-ght. Whatever you say. This would mean that *every* sale is
> automatically not covered by warranty if there is a wholesaler between
> Pioneer and the final end store, even if the final store is "authorized".
>
> If Pioneer sells something to a company at the "wholesale" price, they
> expect it to be resold. This makes that company an "authorized" dealer
> in the eyes of the law in *most* states, since Pioneer chose to sell to
> them.
>
You can't help being stupid, but you could keep it to yourself.
Pioneer does NOT sell to these basement dealers. They get their product
on a gray market; import it illegally from Europe or Japan; and some
get it from authorized dealers who sell them overstock or old product
just above cost to get rid of it.
That does not make these resellers authorized dealers, and Pioneer has
eVERY legal right to refuse warranty service.
Not only that, but Pioneer and others keep track of what serial numbers
go where and dealers who sell to gray market sources are soon not
dealers anymore.
And you know less about the law than you do about hdtv.
Anonymous
July 5, 2005 4:49:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Jeff Rife" <wevsr@nabs.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d33d61029af0749989e39@news.nabs.net...
> FDR (_remove_spam_block_rzitka@hotmail.com) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
>> > Unless the plasmas these discount houses sell are stolen, at some
>> > point,
>> > Pioneer sold the panel to somebody who they "authorized" to resell it.
>> > After
>> > that, the warranty has to apply no matter how many steps it took before
>> > the end user got it.
>>
>> So if you buy it from a store, and resell it to your neighbor does that
>> make
>> you an authorized dealer? No.
>
> Right, but the warranty still applies, so that's one obvious point where
> somebody doesn't have to buy from an "authorized dealer" and still has
> warranty coverage.

Not if the company doesn't agree.


>
>> Authorized dealers are authorized for a reason. They meet guidelines
>> that
>> the company sets.
>
> In general, the only guideline to be an authorized dealer is "don't sell
> it at too low a price".

Now you're catching on.

>
>> A wholesaler is not an authorized dealer, just the
>> middle
>> man to get the product out.
>
> Ri-i-i-ght. Whatever you say. This would mean that *every* sale is
> automatically not covered by warranty if there is a wholesaler between
> Pioneer and the final end store, even if the final store is "authorized".

Does the wholesaler makle warranty claims to the company? No. A wholesaler
doesn't open a box and doesn't know or care if the thing works. They just
reselkl and ship.

>
> If Pioneer sells something to a company at the "wholesale" price, they
> expect it to be resold. This makes that company an "authorized" dealer
> in the eyes of the law in *most* states, since Pioneer chose to sell to
> them.

And if the warranty says that Pioneer won't fix something for free if it's
been abused, does that mean you can get it fixed free anyway?

A warranty is just a form of a contract. It tells the user what they have
to do to get service, what kind of service, the length of the contract and
so on. Do you think that anything in the warranty doesn't apply. Should you
take a tv in that you threw out a window and get it serviced for free? Do
you think that you can take a tv in for free service after 5 years when the
warranty states it's one year.

Basically, you are just throwing out whatever parts of the warranty that you
don't agree with.

>
> --
> Jeff Rife | "A rabbit's foot? You slaughtered an innocent
> | animal for some silly superstition?"
> | "I didn't personally slaughter the rabbit. I shot
> | a giant panda out of a tree, and he fell on it."
> | -- "Cybill"
Anonymous
July 5, 2005 4:49:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

FDR (_remove_spam_block_rzitka@hotmail.com) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
> >> So if you buy it from a store, and resell it to your neighbor does that
> >> make you an authorized dealer? No.
> >
> > Right, but the warranty still applies, so that's one obvious point where
> > somebody doesn't have to buy from an "authorized dealer" and still has
> > warranty coverage.
>
> Not if the company doesn't agree.

It doesn't matter if the company agrees or not. As long as the warranty
period is still in force, the warranty applies. This is the law in every
US state regarding these types of personal second sales.

> > In general, the only guideline to be an authorized dealer is "don't sell
> > it at too low a price".
>
> Now you're catching on.

Right. I'm catching on to the fact that legally, "authorized dealer" has
very little to do with warranty coverage as far as the law is concerned.
You're the one that seems to be quite confused about it.

> > Ri-i-i-ght. Whatever you say. This would mean that *every* sale is
> > automatically not covered by warranty if there is a wholesaler between
> > Pioneer and the final end store, even if the final store is "authorized".
>
> Does the wholesaler makle warranty claims to the company? No. A wholesaler
> doesn't open a box and doesn't know or care if the thing works. They just
> reselkl and ship.

Now you're making my point for me. When the end user makes a warranty
claim, they don't have to worry about how many times the unit was sold
before the got it.

> > If Pioneer sells something to a company at the "wholesale" price, they
> > expect it to be resold. This makes that company an "authorized" dealer
> > in the eyes of the law in *most* states, since Pioneer chose to sell to
> > them.
>
> And if the warranty says that Pioneer won't fix something for free if it's
> been abused, does that mean you can get it fixed free anyway?

In some states, yes, it does, because their laws trump the warranty
wording. Some states define "abuse" at the hands of the consumer more
narrowly than companies would like it defined, but that doesn't change
the fact that it is the law that counts...not what the company thinks.

An example would be inserting a DVD upside down in a player. This is
certainly "misuse", and some companies would like to call it "abuse", but
many states have said that such innocent mistakes should not cause a
product to break. It's OK that the player doesn't play the DVD, but it
should play a subsequent DVD that is inserted correctly. If it did not,
you would have a valid warranty claim even if the company felt otherwise.

> A warranty is just a form of a contract.

Again, thanks for making my point for me. Contract law governs these
things, and if there is a portion of the warranty that conflicts with the
law, then it is disregarded.

In addition, I can't seem to find any wording in the warranty from Pioneer
that says anything like "when purchased from an authorized dealer", so
the actual paper that comes with the units (which is all that counts with
contract law) doesn't have the restriction that Pioneer tries to enforce.

> Basically, you are just throwing out whatever parts of the warranty that you
> don't agree with.

No, I'm throwing out the parts of the warranty that are not in agreement
with the laws of my state, and are thus not legal.

--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/OverTheHedge/VelveetaAndRo...
Anonymous
July 5, 2005 6:13:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Curmudgeon (curmudgeon@buzzoff.net) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
> > If Pioneer sells something to a company at the "wholesale" price, they
> > expect it to be resold. This makes that company an "authorized" dealer
> > in the eyes of the law in *most* states, since Pioneer chose to sell to
> > them.
> >
> You can't help being stupid, but you could keep it to yourself.

You, on the other hand, are rude and loudly stupid, and haven't ever figured
it out.

> Pioneer does NOT sell to these basement dealers. They get their product
> on a gray market; import it illegally from Europe or Japan;

You are misusing the term "grey market". The definition that courts use
is if the item is intended for sale in the final market. If that model
is, then it doesn't matter what route it took to get there.

If the model is the same as ones sold by "authorized dealers", then the
warranty applies, at least in my state.

Now, a different model entirely that was intended to be sold in another
country (usually identified by a need for some kind of adapter for AC power)
is a different story. That does *not* have to be covered, because the
standard "implied warranty" doesn't apply, since Pioneer never claimed that
the product would work in the US. Simply selling a model through an
"authorized" dealer in the US is enough to activate the implied warranty
laws.

--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/OverTheHedge/TiVoForRealLi...
Anonymous
July 5, 2005 6:23:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Curmudgeon" <curmudgeon@buzzoff.net> wrote in message
news:D Ewye.21726$ho.20334@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
> Jeff Rife wrote:
>> FDR (_remove_spam_block_rzitka@hotmail.com) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
>>
>>>>Unless the plasmas these discount houses sell are stolen, at some point,
>>>>Pioneer sold the panel to somebody who they "authorized" to resell it.
>>>>After
>>>>that, the warranty has to apply no matter how many steps it took before
>>>>the end user got it.
>>>
>>>So if you buy it from a store, and resell it to your neighbor does that
>>>make you an authorized dealer? No.
>>
>>
>> Right, but the warranty still applies, so that's one obvious point where
>> somebody doesn't have to buy from an "authorized dealer" and still has
>> warranty coverage.
>>
>>
>>>Authorized dealers are authorized for a reason. They meet guidelines
>>>that the company sets.
>>
>>
>> In general, the only guideline to be an authorized dealer is "don't sell
>> it at too low a price".
>>
>>
>>> A wholesaler is not an authorized dealer, just the
>>> middle man to get the product out.
>>
>>
>> Ri-i-i-ght. Whatever you say. This would mean that *every* sale is
>> automatically not covered by warranty if there is a wholesaler between
>> Pioneer and the final end store, even if the final store is "authorized".
>>
>> If Pioneer sells something to a company at the "wholesale" price, they
>> expect it to be resold. This makes that company an "authorized" dealer
>> in the eyes of the law in *most* states, since Pioneer chose to sell to
>> them.
>>
> You can't help being stupid, but you could keep it to yourself.
> Pioneer does NOT sell to these basement dealers. They get their product
> on a gray market; import it illegally from Europe or Japan; and some get
> it from authorized dealers who sell them overstock or old product just
> above cost to get rid of it.

Yeah, watch out for the grey market. A while back I was shopping for a new
camera. I looked at the warranty card and it was grey market. I left.
You'll be screwed big time if you get one of those.

> That does not make these resellers authorized dealers, and Pioneer has
> eVERY legal right to refuse warranty service.
> Not only that, but Pioneer and others keep track of what serial numbers go
> where and dealers who sell to gray market sources are soon not dealers
> anymore.
> And you know less about the law than you do about hdtv.
Anonymous
July 5, 2005 6:47:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Jeff Rife" <wevsr@nabs.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d345ff4869f2fec989e3b@news.nabs.net...
> FDR (_remove_spam_block_rzitka@hotmail.com) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
>> >> So if you buy it from a store, and resell it to your neighbor does
>> >> that
>> >> make you an authorized dealer? No.
>> >
>> > Right, but the warranty still applies, so that's one obvious point
>> > where
>> > somebody doesn't have to buy from an "authorized dealer" and still has
>> > warranty coverage.
>>
>> Not if the company doesn't agree.
>
> It doesn't matter if the company agrees or not. As long as the warranty
> period is still in force, the warranty applies. This is the law in every
> US state regarding these types of personal second sales.
>
>> > In general, the only guideline to be an authorized dealer is "don't
>> > sell
>> > it at too low a price".
>>
>> Now you're catching on.
>
> Right. I'm catching on to the fact that legally, "authorized dealer" has
> very little to do with warranty coverage as far as the law is concerned.
> You're the one that seems to be quite confused about it.

Nope. But money isn't the only thing. It's service and reputation. You
think Pioneer wants their product being sold in the back of a van in an
alley now do you?

>
>> > Ri-i-i-ght. Whatever you say. This would mean that *every* sale is
>> > automatically not covered by warranty if there is a wholesaler between
>> > Pioneer and the final end store, even if the final store is
>> > "authorized".
>>
>> Does the wholesaler makle warranty claims to the company? No. A
>> wholesaler
>> doesn't open a box and doesn't know or care if the thing works. They just
>> reselkl and ship.
>
> Now you're making my point for me. When the end user makes a warranty
> claim, they don't have to worry about how many times the unit was sold
> before the got it.

But you said a wholesaler has to be authorized since Pioneer sells to them.
Why? You don't take your broken tv to a wholesaler, you take it to a
retailer.

>
>> > If Pioneer sells something to a company at the "wholesale" price, they
>> > expect it to be resold. This makes that company an "authorized" dealer
>> > in the eyes of the law in *most* states, since Pioneer chose to sell to
>> > them.
>>
>> And if the warranty says that Pioneer won't fix something for free if
>> it's
>> been abused, does that mean you can get it fixed free anyway?
>
> In some states, yes, it does, because their laws trump the warranty
> wording. Some states define "abuse" at the hands of the consumer more
> narrowly than companies would like it defined, but that doesn't change
> the fact that it is the law that counts...not what the company thinks.

What law?

>
> An example would be inserting a DVD upside down in a player. This is
> certainly "misuse", and some companies would like to call it "abuse", but
> many states have said that such innocent mistakes should not cause a
> product to break. It's OK that the player doesn't play the DVD, but it
> should play a subsequent DVD that is inserted correctly. If it did not,
> you would have a valid warranty claim even if the company felt otherwise.

Now you're talking about interpetation of the wording.


>
>> A warranty is just a form of a contract.
>
> Again, thanks for making my point for me. Contract law governs these
> things, and if there is a portion of the warranty that conflicts with the
> law, then it is disregarded.

What law?

>
> In addition, I can't seem to find any wording in the warranty from Pioneer
> that says anything like "when purchased from an authorized dealer", so
> the actual paper that comes with the units (which is all that counts with
> contract law) doesn't have the restriction that Pioneer tries to enforce.
>
>> Basically, you are just throwing out whatever parts of the warranty that
>> you
>> don't agree with.
>
> No, I'm throwing out the parts of the warranty that are not in agreement
> with the laws of my state, and are thus not legal.

How is a contract not legal? You agree to those terms when you buy it. If
you don't like the terms, then don't buy it. Nobody is forcing you to buy
their product.

>
> --
> Jeff Rife |
> | http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/OverTheHedge/VelveetaAndRo...
Anonymous
July 5, 2005 6:47:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

FDR (_remove_spam_block_rzitka@hotmail.com) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
> > Now you're making my point for me. When the end user makes a warranty
> > claim, they don't have to worry about how many times the unit was sold
> > before the got it.
>
> But you said a wholesaler has to be authorized since Pioneer sells to them.

They are de facto "authorized" to sell the units if Pioneer sold it to
them.

> Why? You don't take your broken tv to a wholesaler, you take it to a
> retailer.

No, you take it to an "authorized repair center", which may have nothing
to do with an "authorized dealer".

> > In some states, yes, it does, because their laws trump the warranty
> > wording. Some states define "abuse" at the hands of the consumer more
> > narrowly than companies would like it defined, but that doesn't change
> > the fact that it is the law that counts...not what the company thinks.
>
> What law?

It depends on the state. Look up consumer protection laws for your state.

For mine, the various "deceptive trade practices" laws cover it nicely:
http://198.187.128.12/maryland/lpext.dll/Infobase/964c/...

The "failure to state a material fact if the failure deceives or tends to
deceive" clause pretty much covers it if the warranty doesn't explicitly
state "when purchased from an authorized dealer".

Likewise, the definition of a "warranty" in my state (called a "guaranty"
in the law) does the job, where we have:

"'Person guaranteed' means:
(1) The person who is the first buyer at retail of a consumer product
which is the subject of a guaranty;"

This doesn't allow provisions of "special" place to buy the product, and
this has been upheld in court cases.

> > An example would be inserting a DVD upside down in a player. This is
> > certainly "misuse", and some companies would like to call it "abuse", but
> > many states have said that such innocent mistakes should not cause a
> > product to break. It's OK that the player doesn't play the DVD, but it
> > should play a subsequent DVD that is inserted correctly. If it did not,
> > you would have a valid warranty claim even if the company felt otherwise.
>
> Now you're talking about interpetation of the wording.

And "authorized dealer" isn't an interpretation?

> > Again, thanks for making my point for me. Contract law governs these
> > things, and if there is a portion of the warranty that conflicts with the
> > law, then it is disregarded.
>
> What law?

Another example is the "implied warranty" laws that all states have.
Again, read a bit before you post.

> > No, I'm throwing out the parts of the warranty that are not in agreement
> > with the laws of my state, and are thus not legal.
>
> How is a contract not legal? You agree to those terms when you buy it.

A warranty is only a contract on the part of the manufacturer, not the
consumer. In a real contract, you would get to see the warranty before
you "sign".

But, that's irrelevant to the point that no state allows illegal provisions
of contracts to stand if contested. The standard example is that no
contract that requires an illegal activity (stealing something, killing
somebody) is enforceable. But, other examples include HOA rules that
prohibit satellite dishes. That provision of the rules (which you sign
a contract to agree to follow when you purchase) is illegal according to
US law, thus it is null and void while the rest of the contract can still
be enforced (subject, of course, to other laws).

--
Jeff Rife |
| (insert funny signature here)
Anonymous
July 5, 2005 10:31:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Jeff Rife" <wevsr@nabs.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d34963292390a33989e3c@news.nabs.net...
> FDR (_remove_spam_block_rzitka@hotmail.com) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
>> > Now you're making my point for me. When the end user makes a warranty
>> > claim, they don't have to worry about how many times the unit was sold
>> > before the got it.
>>
>> But you said a wholesaler has to be authorized since Pioneer sells to
>> them.
>
> They are de facto "authorized" to sell the units if Pioneer sold it to
> them.

Tell me where Pioneer has authorized wholesalers.

>
>> Why? You don't take your broken tv to a wholesaler, you take it to a
>> retailer.
>
> No, you take it to an "authorized repair center", which may have nothing
> to do with an "authorized dealer".

Often repair depots are also dealers.

>
>> > In some states, yes, it does, because their laws trump the warranty
>> > wording. Some states define "abuse" at the hands of the consumer more
>> > narrowly than companies would like it defined, but that doesn't change
>> > the fact that it is the law that counts...not what the company thinks.
>>
>> What law?
>
> It depends on the state. Look up consumer protection laws for your state.
>
> For mine, the various "deceptive trade practices" laws cover it nicely:
>
> http://198.187.128.12/maryland/lpext.dll/Infobase/964c/...
>
> The "failure to state a material fact if the failure deceives or tends to
> deceive" clause pretty much covers it if the warranty doesn't explicitly
> state "when purchased from an authorized dealer".

How is it a failure to state a material fact when Pioneer has authorized
dealers? It's not like they hide the fact.

>
> Likewise, the definition of a "warranty" in my state (called a "guaranty"
> in the law) does the job, where we have:
>
> "'Person guaranteed' means:
> (1) The person who is the first buyer at retail of a consumer product
> which is the subject of a guaranty;"

Ok, but we are talking warrantees here.

>
> This doesn't allow provisions of "special" place to buy the product, and
> this has been upheld in court cases.

Actually it does. It says you must buy from a retailer. So buying the tv
from you in a private transaction would not hold up.

>
>> > An example would be inserting a DVD upside down in a player. This is
>> > certainly "misuse", and some companies would like to call it "abuse",
>> > but
>> > many states have said that such innocent mistakes should not cause a
>> > product to break. It's OK that the player doesn't play the DVD, but it
>> > should play a subsequent DVD that is inserted correctly. If it did
>> > not,
>> > you would have a valid warranty claim even if the company felt
>> > otherwise.
>>
>> Now you're talking about interpetation of the wording.
>
> And "authorized dealer" isn't an interpretation?

It's plain and clear. They have a list. Look at the klist. If it's on the
list, then they are authorized.

>
>> > Again, thanks for making my point for me. Contract law governs these
>> > things, and if there is a portion of the warranty that conflicts with
>> > the
>> > law, then it is disregarded.
>>
>> What law?
>
> Another example is the "implied warranty" laws that all states have.
> Again, read a bit before you post.

Implied warranty means to me that when there is no warranty there is still
some recourse. But Pio0neer is actually stating a warranty. Nothing
implied.

>
>> > No, I'm throwing out the parts of the warranty that are not in
>> > agreement
>> > with the laws of my state, and are thus not legal.
>>
>> How is a contract not legal? You agree to those terms when you buy it.
>
> A warranty is only a contract on the part of the manufacturer, not the
> consumer. In a real contract, you would get to see the warranty before
> you "sign".

And you could return it too and not be bound to the warranty. Or ask the
retailer or manufacturer for the warranty information. Stuff like that is
often readily available on the web. I've been eyeing something I want to
buy and I've been able to check warranty stuff on-line.


>
> But, that's irrelevant to the point that no state allows illegal
> provisions
> of contracts to stand if contested. The standard example is that no
> contract that requires an illegal activity (stealing something, killing
> somebody) is enforceable. But, other examples include HOA rules that
> prohibit satellite dishes. That provision of the rules (which you sign
> a contract to agree to follow when you purchase) is illegal according to
> US law, thus it is null and void while the rest of the contract can still
> be enforced (subject, of course, to other laws).
>
> --
> Jeff Rife |
> | (insert funny signature here)
Anonymous
July 5, 2005 10:31:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

FDR wrote:

Agumentative BS snipped.

Call your state's Consumer Affairs and/or Attorney General's office. Ask
them.

What Jeff has stated is exactly the law in Massachusetts. The first
retail purchaser of goods packed with a USA warranty has full warranty
rights so long as the items purchased were not stolen.

--
Matthew

I'm a contractor. If you want an opinion, I'll sell you one.
Which one do you want?
Anonymous
July 5, 2005 10:39:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Jeff Rife" <wevsr@nabs.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d3497d623709f82989e3d@news.nabs.net...
> Curmudgeon (curmudgeon@buzzoff.net) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
>> > If Pioneer sells something to a company at the "wholesale" price, they
>> > expect it to be resold. This makes that company an "authorized" dealer
>> > in the eyes of the law in *most* states, since Pioneer chose to sell to
>> > them.
>> >
>> You can't help being stupid, but you could keep it to yourself.
>
> You, on the other hand, are rude and loudly stupid, and haven't ever
> figured
> it out.
>
>> Pioneer does NOT sell to these basement dealers. They get their product
>> on a gray market; import it illegally from Europe or Japan;
>
> You are misusing the term "grey market". The definition that courts use
> is if the item is intended for sale in the final market. If that model
> is, then it doesn't matter what route it took to get there.
>
> If the model is the same as ones sold by "authorized dealers", then the
> warranty applies, at least in my state.
>
> Now, a different model entirely that was intended to be sold in another
> country (usually identified by a need for some kind of adapter for AC
> power)
> is a different story. That does *not* have to be covered, because the
> standard "implied warranty" doesn't apply, since Pioneer never claimed
> that
> the product would work in the US.

Well Pioneer never claimed they would service stuff that wasn't bought from
an authorized dealer either. You seem to want to selectively enforce things
and discard others.

Hey, the Japan intended product sold from Pioneer to a store in Japan that
then sold to a store in America, making them a defacto authorized dealer for
it, must mean that the product has to be warranteed. Isn't that right? I
mean, right when using your selective logic.

Simply selling a model through an
> "authorized" dealer in the US is enough to activate the implied warranty
> laws.
>
> --
> Jeff Rife |
> | http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/OverTheHedge/TiVoForRealLi...
Anonymous
July 5, 2005 10:39:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

FDR wrote:
>
> Hey, the Japan intended product sold from Pioneer to a store in Japan that
> then sold to a store in America, making them a defacto authorized dealer for
> it, must mean that the product has to be warranteed. Isn't that right?

Yes, it is right. All you have to do is send it into the region for
which the warranty is valid. I've known people to send cameras back to
Japan for warranty repairs for exactly that reason.


--
Matthew

I'm a contractor. If you want an opinion, I'll sell you one.
Which one do you want?
Anonymous
July 6, 2005 12:43:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Matthew L. Martin" <nothere@notnow.never> wrote in message
news:11clofacfc261ce@corp.supernews.com...
> FDR wrote:
>>
>> Hey, the Japan intended product sold from Pioneer to a store in Japan
>> that then sold to a store in America, making them a defacto authorized
>> dealer for it, must mean that the product has to be warranteed. Isn't
>> that right?
>
> Yes, it is right. All you have to do is send it into the region for which
> the warranty is valid. I've known people to send cameras back to Japan for
> warranty repairs for exactly that reason.

And who regulates that? Whose laws apply?

>
>
> --
> Matthew
>
> I'm a contractor. If you want an opinion, I'll sell you one.
> Which one do you want?
Anonymous
July 6, 2005 12:44:00 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

FDR wrote:
> "Matthew L. Martin" <nothere@notnow.never> wrote in message
> news:11clofacfc261ce@corp.supernews.com...
>
>>FDR wrote:
>>
>>>Hey, the Japan intended product sold from Pioneer to a store in Japan
>>>that then sold to a store in America, making them a defacto authorized
>>>dealer for it, must mean that the product has to be warranteed. Isn't
>>>that right?
>>
>>Yes, it is right. All you have to do is send it into the region for which
>>the warranty is valid. I've known people to send cameras back to Japan for
>>warranty repairs for exactly that reason.
>
>
> And who regulates that? Whose laws apply?
>

I don't really care. All I know is that the manufacturers honored a
valid warranty in the region in which the cameras were purchased. What
is there to regulate about that?

--
Matthew

I'm a contractor. If you want an opinion, I'll sell you one.
Which one do you want?
Anonymous
July 6, 2005 3:01:19 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Matthew L. Martin" <nothere@notnow.never> wrote in message
news:11clvjndn35a7e0@corp.supernews.com...
> FDR wrote:
>> "Matthew L. Martin" <nothere@notnow.never> wrote in message
>> news:11clofacfc261ce@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>>>FDR wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hey, the Japan intended product sold from Pioneer to a store in Japan
>>>>that then sold to a store in America, making them a defacto authorized
>>>>dealer for it, must mean that the product has to be warranteed. Isn't
>>>>that right?
>>>
>>>Yes, it is right. All you have to do is send it into the region for which
>>>the warranty is valid. I've known people to send cameras back to Japan
>>>for warranty repairs for exactly that reason.
>>
>>
>> And who regulates that? Whose laws apply?
>>
>
> I don't really care. All I know is that the manufacturers honored a valid
> warranty in the region in which the cameras were purchased. What is there
> to regulate about that?

Well, you are going on about how lo0cakl law covers these things. But we
are talking about somwething tha was so0lkd ion Japan. So do they have to
honor local law or Japanese law?

>
> --
> Matthew
>
> I'm a contractor. If you want an opinion, I'll sell you one.
> Which one do you want?
Anonymous
July 6, 2005 12:08:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

FDR wrote:
> "Matthew L. Martin" <nothere@notnow.never> wrote in message
> news:11clvjndn35a7e0@corp.supernews.com...
>
>>FDR wrote:
>>
>>>"Matthew L. Martin" <nothere@notnow.never> wrote in message
>>>news:11clofacfc261ce@corp.supernews.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>FDR wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Hey, the Japan intended product sold from Pioneer to a store in Japan
>>>>>that then sold to a store in America, making them a defacto authorized
>>>>>dealer for it, must mean that the product has to be warranteed. Isn't
>>>>>that right?
>>>>
>>>>Yes, it is right. All you have to do is send it into the region for which
>>>>the warranty is valid. I've known people to send cameras back to Japan
>>>>for warranty repairs for exactly that reason.
>>>
>>>
>>>And who regulates that? Whose laws apply?
>>>
>>
>>I don't really care. All I know is that the manufacturers honored a valid
>>warranty in the region in which the cameras were purchased. What is there
>>to regulate about that?
>
>
> Well, you are going on about how lo0cakl law covers these things. But we
> are talking about somwething tha was so0lkd ion Japan. So do they have to
> honor local law or Japanese law?
>

I really have no idea what you may be talking about.

The cameras were purchased with a valid Japanese warranty. The
manufacturers honored their warranty when the cameras were presented for
repair in Japan. The fact that the cameras were not purchased in Japan
didn't seem to bother the manufacturers in the least bit. If any local
law was involved, and I doubt there was, it would have been Japanese law.

What about that are you having a problem understanding?

--
Matthew

I'm a contractor. If you want an opinion, I'll sell you one.
Which one do you want?
Anonymous
July 6, 2005 4:23:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Matthew L. Martin" <nothere@notnow.never> wrote in message
news:11cnieo5f91ke50@corp.supernews.com...
> FDR wrote:
>> "Matthew L. Martin" <nothere@notnow.never> wrote in message
>> news:11clvjndn35a7e0@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>>>FDR wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Matthew L. Martin" <nothere@notnow.never> wrote in message
>>>>news:11clofacfc261ce@corp.supernews.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>FDR wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hey, the Japan intended product sold from Pioneer to a store in Japan
>>>>>>that then sold to a store in America, making them a defacto authorized
>>>>>>dealer for it, must mean that the product has to be warranteed. Isn't
>>>>>>that right?
>>>>>
>>>>>Yes, it is right. All you have to do is send it into the region for
>>>>>which the warranty is valid. I've known people to send cameras back to
>>>>>Japan for warranty repairs for exactly that reason.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>And who regulates that? Whose laws apply?
>>>>
>>>
>>>I don't really care. All I know is that the manufacturers honored a valid
>>>warranty in the region in which the cameras were purchased. What is there
>>>to regulate about that?
>>
>>
>> Well, you are going on about how lo0cakl law covers these things. But we
>> are talking about somwething tha was so0lkd ion Japan. So do they have
>> to honor local law or Japanese law?
>>
>
> I really have no idea what you may be talking about.
>
> The cameras were purchased with a valid Japanese warranty. The
> manufacturers honored their warranty when the cameras were presented for
> repair in Japan. The fact that the cameras were not purchased in Japan
> didn't seem to bother the manufacturers in the least bit.

Maybe because the camera was sold by an authorized dealer.


> If any local law was involved, and I doubt there was, it would have been
> Japanese law.



>
> What about that are you having a problem understanding?
>
> --
> Matthew
>
> I'm a contractor. If you want an opinion, I'll sell you one.
> Which one do you want?
Anonymous
July 6, 2005 4:23:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

FDR wrote:
> "Matthew L. Martin" <nothere@notnow.never> wrote in message
> news:11cnieo5f91ke50@corp.supernews.com...
>
>>FDR wrote:
>>
>>>"Matthew L. Martin" <nothere@notnow.never> wrote in message
>>>news:11clvjndn35a7e0@corp.supernews.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>FDR wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Matthew L. Martin" <nothere@notnow.never> wrote in message
>>>>>news:11clofacfc261ce@corp.supernews.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>FDR wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hey, the Japan intended product sold from Pioneer to a store in Japan
>>>>>>>that then sold to a store in America, making them a defacto authorized
>>>>>>>dealer for it, must mean that the product has to be warranteed. Isn't
>>>>>>>that right?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yes, it is right. All you have to do is send it into the region for
>>>>>>which the warranty is valid. I've known people to send cameras back to
>>>>>>Japan for warranty repairs for exactly that reason.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>And who regulates that? Whose laws apply?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I don't really care. All I know is that the manufacturers honored a valid
>>>>warranty in the region in which the cameras were purchased. What is there
>>>>to regulate about that?
>>>
>>>
>>>Well, you are going on about how lo0cakl law covers these things. But we
>>>are talking about somwething tha was so0lkd ion Japan. So do they have
>>>to honor local law or Japanese law?
>>>
>>
>>I really have no idea what you may be talking about.
>>
>>The cameras were purchased with a valid Japanese warranty. The
>>manufacturers honored their warranty when the cameras were presented for
>>repair in Japan. The fact that the cameras were not purchased in Japan
>>didn't seem to bother the manufacturers in the least bit.
>
>
> Maybe because the camera was sold by an authorized dealer.
>

It may also be because the manufacturers don't know or care if the
cameras were sold by authorized dealers.

--
Matthew

I'm a contractor. If you want an opinion, I'll sell you one.
Which one do you want?
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 5:52:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Matthew L. Martin (nothere@notnow.never) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
> Call your state's Consumer Affairs and/or Attorney General's office. Ask
> them.
>
> What Jeff has stated is exactly the law in Massachusetts. The first
> retail purchaser of goods packed with a USA warranty has full warranty
> rights so long as the items purchased were not stolen.

As far as I can tell, this is also the law here in Maryland. If the
warranty specifically states "when purchased at an authorized dealer",
then the manufacturer has some leverage. Otherwise, they have to repair
it, because Maryland law basically says that what they write in that
warranty is what they must do, or be in breach, which opens them up to
criminal charges as well as civil.

We also have the advantage that a purchase can *always* be returned if it
isn't "fit for purpose", and not having a warranty when you thought it did
is one thing that makes a device "unfit".

--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/OverTheHedge/TreeChainsaw....
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 4:05:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com> wrote in message
news:FNGdnavjFvF0zFTfRVn-og@comcast.com...
> Felice wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I am considering buying the Pioneer HDTV 4350 and checked prices
>> online. Some of the prices are very low, however, I am concerned with
>> the warranty.
>>
>> Does anyone know if Pioneer will / must honor warranty if purchased
>> from an online (unauthorized) distributor, such as PlasmaHouse,
>> PriceMad, etc?
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>
> I don't believe they honor the warranty with audio
> equipment......authorized dealers only.

If it is a U.S. product I don't know how they could legally NOT honor the
warranty.

Steve
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 4:07:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"FDR" <_remove_spam_block_rzitka@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tJhye.109616$g5.99159@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>
> "Jeff Rife" <wevsr@nabs.net> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1d33625050e4450989e38@news.nabs.net...
>> FDR (_remove_spam_block_rzitka@hotmail.com) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
>>> > The basic thinking behind these laws is that Pioneer sold the panel to
>>> > PlasmaHouse, etc., so they are de facto an "authorized dealer",
>>> > whether
>>> > Pioneer claims they are or not.
>>>
>>> What if they didn't sell it to PlasmaHouse though?
>>
>> How else could PlasmaHouse get the panel at a cheap enough price to be
>> able
>> to re-sell it at prices lower than other dealers?
>>
>> The only other answer is that PlasmaHouse bought it from an "authorized
>> dealer". This is no different from me buying a plasma from that same
>> dealer and selling it to a friend. The warranty still applies.
>>
>> Unless the plasmas these discount houses sell are stolen, at some point,
>> Pioneer sold the panel to somebody who they "authorized" to resell it.
>> After
>> that, the warranty has to apply no matter how many steps it took before
>> the end user got it.
>
> So if you buy it from a store, and resell it to your neighbor does that
> make you an authorized dealer? No.
>
> Authorized dealers are authorized for a reason. They meet guidelines that
> the company sets.

And what are those "guidelines"??

Steve
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 4:08:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"FDR" <_remove_spam_block_rzitka@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:llvye.6260$0i3.3161@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>
> "Jeff Rife" <wevsr@nabs.net> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1d33d61029af0749989e39@news.nabs.net...
>> FDR (_remove_spam_block_rzitka@hotmail.com) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
>>> > Unless the plasmas these discount houses sell are stolen, at some
>>> > point,
>>> > Pioneer sold the panel to somebody who they "authorized" to resell it.
>>> > After
>>> > that, the warranty has to apply no matter how many steps it took
>>> > before
>>> > the end user got it.
>>>
>>> So if you buy it from a store, and resell it to your neighbor does that
>>> make
>>> you an authorized dealer? No.
>>
>> Right, but the warranty still applies, so that's one obvious point where
>> somebody doesn't have to buy from an "authorized dealer" and still has
>> warranty coverage.
>
> Not if the company doesn't agree.

They don't have to. The law overrules them.
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 11:04:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Steven de Mena" <demenas@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:t5Wdne8hJbVn6lLfRVn-jQ@comcast.com...
>
> "FDR" <_remove_spam_block_rzitka@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:llvye.6260$0i3.3161@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>>
>> "Jeff Rife" <wevsr@nabs.net> wrote in message
>> news:MPG.1d33d61029af0749989e39@news.nabs.net...
>>> FDR (_remove_spam_block_rzitka@hotmail.com) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
>>>> > Unless the plasmas these discount houses sell are stolen, at some
>>>> > point,
>>>> > Pioneer sold the panel to somebody who they "authorized" to resell
>>>> > it.
>>>> > After
>>>> > that, the warranty has to apply no matter how many steps it took
>>>> > before
>>>> > the end user got it.
>>>>
>>>> So if you buy it from a store, and resell it to your neighbor does that
>>>> make
>>>> you an authorized dealer? No.
>>>
>>> Right, but the warranty still applies, so that's one obvious point where
>>> somebody doesn't have to buy from an "authorized dealer" and still has
>>> warranty coverage.
>>
>> Not if the company doesn't agree.
>
> They don't have to. The law overrules them.

Laws vary from state to state and policies vary among vendors and
manufacturers. Why not just check with the manufacturer, the vendor, and
your state consumer office and find out for certain? You can speculate and
make all the claims that you want, but they may not hold for everyone
everywhere. The fact is that some manufacturers do limit warranty coverage
to products sold through authorized dealers and get away with it in most
states. Check before you buy, don't just rely on usenet opinions.

Leonard
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 12:26:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Steven de Mena wrote:
> "FDR" <_remove_spam_block_rzitka@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:tJhye.109616$g5.99159@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>
>>Authorized dealers are authorized for a reason. They meet guidelines that
>>the company sets.
>
>
> And what are those "guidelines"??
>

That they sell enough product.

:-)

--
Matthew

I'm a contractor. If you want an opinion, I'll sell you one.
Which one do you want?
!