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AMD 5000+ BE vs. Intel C2D E4500

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March 24, 2008 3:37:22 PM

I am building a budget rig and I am looking at two very overclockable processors:

AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ Brisbane 2.6GHz:
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?item=N82E16819103194

Intel Core 2 Duo E4500 Allendale 2.2GHz:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115031

I would like to OC to around 3ghz, but I am getting mixed opinions on which of the two I should go with.
What do you think?
March 24, 2008 4:07:57 PM

the brisbane does not come wih a HFS so u would need to buy one and im sure u would buy one anywayz. i would go with Brisbane but allendale is a better performer and both can be OC'd to 3 GHZ no problem.
March 24, 2008 4:16:45 PM

The E4500 is quite a bit more.

The E2160/E2180 would be much cheaper and still be able to outperform the X2 5000+ at the same clock speeds.
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March 24, 2008 4:17:23 PM

budget rig means lower cost. At this point, the AMD780g chipset is the best integrated solution. I would go with the 5000+ and a motherboard with the 780g chipset. Check out Biostar, Gigabyte or even the ECS 780-M.

This will let you more room for more RAM and bigger HDD.
March 24, 2008 5:59:38 PM

The E4500 would be about 25 - 30% faster than the X2 5000+ BE when both are clocked at 3GHz.



March 24, 2008 6:40:48 PM

epsilon84 said:
The E4500 would be about 25 - 30% faster than the X2 5000+ BE when both are clocked at 3GHz.

How so?
March 24, 2008 7:03:59 PM

The Intel Chips do far more work Clock for Clock than the AMD Chips.
Even the Cheaper E2xxx Series which have even less cache are much faster.
March 24, 2008 7:07:24 PM

pat said:
budget rig means lower cost. At this point, the AMD780g chipset is the best integrated solution. I would go with the 5000+ and a motherboard with the 780g chipset. Check out Biostar, Gigabyte or even the ECS 780-M.

This will let you more room for more RAM and bigger HDD.


Having the "Best Integrated Solution" is mostly irrelevent at this point for most users since it's still not good enough to replace a dedicated graphics card if one is needed or desired while if one is not needed or desired other integrated solutions work just fine.

Even at minimal graphics settings as relatively small resolutions, it could not come close to usability with the tested games which are not even the roughest.

http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/03/04/amd_780g_chipset...

March 24, 2008 7:29:10 PM

zenmaster said:
Having the "Best Integrated Solution" is mostly irrelevent at this point for most users since it's still not good enough to replace a dedicated graphics card if one is needed or desired while if one is not needed or desired other integrated solutions work just fine.

Even at minimal graphics settings as relatively small resolutions, it could not come close to usability with the tested games which are not even the roughest.

http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/03/04/amd_780g_chipset...



Depend of the purpose. For business, internet, video or movie watching, it is more than enough. As for game, I agree, but at the price the current 780 motherboard are, onboard is more like a bonus.
March 24, 2008 7:31:59 PM

epsilon84 said:
The E4500 would be about 25 - 30% faster than the X2 5000+ BE when both are clocked at 3GHz.



it is costing more too. because the BE don't need expensive cooling to OC. a simple 10$ cooler should suffice with good vented case. And in this case, the Intel will still cost 25-30% more than the BE.

That 25$ will be better spend on more RAM. Even a budget PC will benefit from more ram.
March 24, 2008 7:42:40 PM

pat said:
Depend of the purpose. For business, internet, video or movie watching, it is more than enough. As for game, I agree, but at the price the current 780 motherboard are, onboard is more like a bonus.


I think it's a great board, but it will have a more targeted audience than many here will see.

If you toss that into the average reatail system it will be a big setup up.
Then toss in the fact you could toss in a cheap/low power/relatively cool GPU into the system and make older games run OK is nice.

It's also a nice board for "Low Power Systems" that you want cool and quiet due to the low powe usage.
Toss in a real low power AMD chip and it will be good to go.

March 24, 2008 7:49:32 PM

pat said:
it is costing more too. because the BE don't need expensive cooling to OC. a simple 10$ cooler should suffice with good vented case. And in this case, the Intel will still cost 25-30% more than the BE.

That 25$ will be better spend on more RAM. Even a budget PC will benefit from more ram.


Or you could buy the E2160 which is Cheaper, Faster, and even comes with a Cooler that will run the chip at about 3.2Ghz.
March 24, 2008 7:54:01 PM

zenmaster said:
Or you could buy the E2160 which is Cheaper, Faster, and even comes with a Cooler that will run the chip at about 3.2Ghz.



That could be an option, but it will take a better board for FSB OC. The BE OC simply by upping the multiplier, so it is easier.
March 24, 2008 7:59:19 PM

pat said:
it is costing more too. because the BE don't need expensive cooling to OC. a simple 10$ cooler should suffice with good vented case. And in this case, the Intel will still cost 25-30% more than the BE.

That 25$ will be better spend on more RAM. Even a budget PC will benefit from more ram.


The E4500 doesn't require 'expensive cooling' to OC either, it actually runs cooler than the X2 5000+ BE. My E4400 does 3.33GHz on the stock HSF, and guess what, its FREE. :whistle: 

RAM is so cheap nowadays I doubt the OP is getting less than the standard 2GB kit, so your argument is moot unless you are suggesting the OP get 4GB of RAM for a budget build. ;) 
March 24, 2008 8:04:47 PM

I'll toss my 2 cents in and give favor to the 5000+ BE. I do have a Intel in my other computer and its been a bit more of a problem then my AMD machine. Just my personal experience.

For now, though, I'm waiting for the new Yorkies to hit the market so I can build a new gaming machine.
March 24, 2008 8:05:47 PM

pat said:
That could be an option, but it will take a better board for FSB OC. The BE OC simply by upping the multiplier, so it is easier.


The E21x0 chips are stock 800FSB (as are the E4x00 chips). This means you don't need a high end mobo to get decent overclocks, an E2160 at 3GHz will be running at 1333FSB, which is the standard FSB speed for the higher end C2Ds anyway. Now clearly you don't need a high end mobo to run a stock 1333FSB C2D... for the same reason you also don't need a high end mobo to run a 800FSB E21x0 or E4x00 chip @ 1333FSB.
March 24, 2008 9:39:19 PM

so you only need more expensive memory
March 24, 2008 9:45:33 PM

epsilon84 said:
The E4500 doesn't require 'expensive cooling' to OC either, it actually runs cooler than the X2 5000+ BE. My E4400 does 3.33GHz on the stock HSF, and guess what, its FREE. :whistle: 

RAM is so cheap nowadays I doubt the OP is getting less than the standard 2GB kit, so your argument is moot unless you are suggesting the OP get 4GB of RAM for a budget build. ;) 



That's the point. I put 4 gigs with Vista now. I mostly built budget machine. And for the difference that cpu gives in budget machine, I always favor RAM and HDD space than CPU.

And to be honest, in all of my build, based on Intel or AMD, the only difference in speed that could be noticed on a day to day basis come from more ram, or faster hdd than a few hundred of MHz.
March 24, 2008 10:24:46 PM

pat said:
so you only need more expensive memory


No you don't, a 1333FSB only needs DDR2-667 when using the 1:1 ratio. :ange: 

Mate, admit it, you've clearly never overclocked a C2D before, have you? :lol: 

I wonder what excuse you're gonna come up with next, I think you're running out man... mobo/FSB/RAM all mythbusted. ;) 
March 24, 2008 10:26:11 PM

pat said:
That's the point. I put 4 gigs with Vista now. I mostly built budget machine. And for the difference that cpu gives in budget machine, I always favor RAM and HDD space than CPU.

And to be honest, in all of my build, based on Intel or AMD, the only difference in speed that could be noticed on a day to day basis come from more ram, or faster hdd than a few hundred of MHz.


And who says you can't put 4GB of RAM in an Intel build?

You've actually built Intel machines? You seem to be pretty clueless about the overclocking aspect of them, to say the least. :lol: 

The bottom line is that an X2 5000+ BE plus HSF ends up costing the same as an E4500, for far less performance once overclocked. Whether you 'notice' the difference will depend on how CPU intensive the task is.
March 24, 2008 10:43:34 PM

epsilon84 said:
No you don't, a 1333FSB only needs DDR2-667 when using the 1:1 ratio. :ange: 

Mate, admit it, you've clearly never overclocked a C2D before, have you? :lol: 

I wonder what excuse you're gonna come up with next, I think you're running out man... mobo/FSB/RAM all mythbusted. ;) 


No, I've never since the first core2. Most of my customers simply want cheap functional PC, so I go with the price and I have myself an AMD system that I've stopped OCed it since my socket 939 3000+...

March 24, 2008 10:48:32 PM

epsilon84 said:
And who says you can't put 4GB of RAM in an Intel build?

You've actually built Intel machines? You seem to be pretty clueless about the overclocking aspect of them, to say the least. :lol: 

The bottom line is that an X2 5000+ BE plus HSF ends up costing the same as an E4500, for far less performance once overclocked. Whether you 'notice' the difference will depend on how CPU intensive the task is.


I build Intel.. I build AMD.. All of them running stock because that what my customers want. I go with price. Sometime, for budget, Intel come first, other time, it is AMD. I don't use the BE in my customer's built. They dont care. They all are happy with their computer and I still have to have one computer fail.
March 24, 2008 11:30:58 PM

pat said:
That's the point. I put 4 gigs with Vista now. I mostly built budget machine. And for the difference that cpu gives in budget machine, I always favor RAM and HDD space than CPU.

And to be honest, in all of my build, based on Intel or AMD, the only difference in speed that could be noticed on a day to day basis come from more ram, or faster hdd than a few hundred of MHz.


Why would anyone buy a Custom Built Entry Level Box configured to run at plain stock?
You could save a ton of money by simply getting a DELL.

Even if I were to buy all of the parts myself including OS/Keyboard/Etc, I likely could not beat Dell's price even if I exclude OS. Toss in the need to Buy the OS and mark up for potential warranty service and then add in a profit, the only folks who would buy the system are the ones who don't understand computers and ones likely not getting a good deal.

Dell and the others start overcharging with upgrades so you can start making up the volume discount the big boys get. Start OCing the System where you can make a $70 CPU outperform a $200-$300 CPU and you are now possibly making a profit.

March 24, 2008 11:38:32 PM

because I often upgrade existing machine, reusing the same OS, most part. I could tell them to get a dell too, but that don't give me money. And I do the support for them, and that pay me too.

So, I mostly buy MB, CPU and RAM. I do build gaming machine, but rarely.

As for OC, since I offer support, I rather sell them stock speed.
a c 123 à CPUs
a b À AMD
March 25, 2008 12:10:01 AM

zenmaster said:
Why would anyone buy a Custom Built Entry Level Box configured to run at plain stock?
You could save a ton of money by simply getting a DELL.

Even if I were to buy all of the parts myself including OS/Keyboard/Etc, I likely could not beat Dell's price even if I exclude OS. Toss in the need to Buy the OS and mark up for potential warranty service and then add in a profit, the only folks who would buy the system are the ones who don't understand computers and ones likely not getting a good deal.

Dell and the others start overcharging with upgrades so you can start making up the volume discount the big boys get. Start OCing the System where you can make a $70 CPU outperform a $200-$300 CPU and you are now possibly making a profit.


All of this is true but some want a better quality machine and support from a other source besides India. My grandparents have had me build them PC's for the past 2 builds. Last OEM they got was a Compaq Presario in 1998. But they just like to support my habit.
March 25, 2008 5:37:32 AM

pat said:
I build Intel.. I build AMD.. All of them running stock because that what my customers want. I go with price. Sometime, for budget, Intel come first, other time, it is AMD. I don't use the BE in my customer's built. They dont care. They all are happy with their computer and I still have to have one computer fail.


Exactly, you don't overclock, so stop spreading FUD and misinformation about overclocking when its clearly not your area of expertise.

I glad things are going well for your business, but most people at THG are enthusiasts and overclocking DOES matter.

March 25, 2008 1:25:09 PM

epsilon84 said:
Exactly, you don't overclock, so stop spreading FUD and misinformation about overclocking when its clearly not your area of expertise.

I glad things are going well for your business, but most people at THG are enthusiasts and overclocking DOES matter.


So, because I don't OC the system I sell, I'm spreading FUD and misinformation?? What bout those that never had an AMD claimaing they are failure? In this case, they should also shut up. Or all of those that don't actually use Vista claiming it's a failure? If I'm spreading fud, then lots of peoples here are.
March 25, 2008 2:09:48 PM

I have an AMD 5000+ BE oc'ed to 3.12 and I like it a lot (hard to beat for $90). I get a bit over 11k on 3dmark06 with an HD3870 VC. If you use this benchmark there is a link on the site to new incoming systems scores. It is very interesting to see the scores various systems get worldwide. Many times people will overstate one brand over another, you know who you are, must be some sort of agenda. OP consider how you might want to upgrade down the road. Choose a MB that will allow an upgrade with either the AMD or Intel. I myself am waiting on a higher clocked Phenom. The E2xxx's may oclock to high heaven but still score low in the 3dmark. Kind of like running a Vespa at 15k rpms. The Intel q6600 is still a hot ticket. Take a look at Tom's CPU charts.
a c 123 à CPUs
a b À AMD
March 25, 2008 2:13:50 PM

pat said:
So, because I don't OC the system I sell, I'm spreading FUD and misinformation?? What bout those that never had an AMD claimaing they are failure? In this case, they should also shut up. Or all of those that don't actually use Vista claiming it's a failure? If I'm spreading fud, then lots of peoples here are.



You don't always have to own something to know its a failure. I agree that most people critisize Vista and have never used it even though Vista is better than XP when it was first released. But for me, I have never owned and AMD chip but have worked with and on many AMD systems. Last system I worked on in college was the old K6-2's. Had a friend with a Athlon XP 3000+ with a mobo that wouldn't recognize the CPU as a 3000+.

As for Phenom, I couldn't really buy one knowing it underperfromed a certain CPU. But then again I am an enthuisiast. Only reason I never owned a AMD system is simple though. I built my first PC deciding on Intel back in 2002/2003. This was before A64/X2 so they were even in performance just which one you wanted was the decision. Then I used that PC and slowly upgraded the components for 5 years since I had no money. Then it came to 2007 about October and the Q6600 was the best bang for buck chip.

So I don't spread FUD. Just put my opinion to facts.
March 25, 2008 3:28:42 PM

topper743 said:
I have an AMD 5000+ BE oc'ed to 3.12 and I like it a lot (hard to beat for $90). I get a bit over 11k on 3dmark06 with an HD3870 VC. If you use this benchmark there is a link on the site to new incoming systems scores. It is very interesting to see the scores various systems get worldwide. Many times people will overstate one brand over another, you know who you are, must be some sort of agenda. OP consider how you might want to upgrade down the road. Choose a MB that will allow an upgrade with either the AMD or Intel. I myself am waiting on a higher clocked Phenom. The E2xxx's may oclock to high heaven but still score low in the 3dmark. Kind of like running a Vespa at 15k rpms. The Intel q6600 is still a hot ticket. Take a look at Tom's CPU charts.


A set of reviews clearly show that the E2xxx outpeform the 5000+ BE quite handily.

Here is a good link to start.

It show the E2xxx Beating the x6800 by a far magin on most tests.
http://xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/pentium-e2160_...

This article links to the X2-6000 Review which show that CPU trailing by a large margin to the x6800.

The X2-5000 cant' quite match the x6800 due to the smaller cache.
The result is obvious that the x2-5000 can't match the E2xxx series.

That's not to knock the CPU, but it's slightly slower and slightly more expensive.

March 25, 2008 4:21:03 PM

I built a machine a few months back with a 5000 BE and things went great. I was able to OC to just about 3.2Ghz without boosting the VCore. The machine runs great, all the way up to 3.4Ghz then I started having issues with keeping it stable for more than 30 minutes.

Some people have reported more speed than 3.4, but it is rare. And the extra cost of a hsf is a mute point, since most OCing can be done without upping the VCore much. Spend $20 on a decent hsf and use some AS5 that you might have around.

March 25, 2008 4:39:15 PM

will the E4500 run STABLE @ 3ghz with the stock HSF?
March 25, 2008 4:44:05 PM

I would not try that with the stock hsf. Since most people who liquid cool run at 49 to 50C at that OCed speed. The stock cooler is probably going to run you into the 70s. It could be done, but if your ambient temp gets to high you may overheat.

Spend the extra $30 and get a better cooler.
March 25, 2008 5:53:37 PM

pat said:
So, because I don't OC the system I sell, I'm spreading FUD and misinformation?? What bout those that never had an AMD claimaing they are failure? In this case, they should also shut up. Or all of those that don't actually use Vista claiming it's a failure? If I'm spreading fud, then lots of peoples here are.


Don't even try to discuss with zenmaster, 'couse he told me once that x21X0 is faster than X2 5000BE. Of course, he thought of X21X0 OC-ed to 3,4GHz compared to X2 5000 on stock speed. So, that is same like this - my Fiat Punto tuned with abarth engine with 220HP is faster than your VW Golf GTI with 175HP. Am i actually SMART to say this. Thanks ZEN for your enlightment. Try sometimes to test CPUs at home (didn't i said that once before?). Again PAT, don't even try to discuss with ZEN, it doesn't have any sense. And he's not the only one. There are people on this forum who's knowledge of building computers are based on what they read on internet, not on their own experience. And thats said.
Sorry for my english - if i wrote something incorrect.
March 26, 2008 9:09:00 AM

rspaulding said:
will the E4500 run STABLE @ 3ghz with the stock HSF?


At stock volts, yes, easily. It only runs marginally hotter than at stock speeds if you don't increase the Vcore.
March 26, 2008 9:20:01 AM

pat said:
So, because I don't OC the system I sell, I'm spreading FUD and misinformation?? What bout those that never had an AMD claimaing they are failure? In this case, they should also shut up. Or all of those that don't actually use Vista claiming it's a failure? If I'm spreading fud, then lots of peoples here are.


They do say the first step is denial... :lol: 

"That could be an option, but it will take a better board for FSB OC. The BE OC simply by upping the multiplier, so it is easier."

"it is costing more too. because the BE don't need expensive cooling to OC. a simple 10$ cooler should suffice with good vented case. And in this case, the Intel will still cost 25-30% more than the BE."

"so you only need more expensive memory"

Yes, I'd say you're spreading FUD. Do you even know what FUD stands for? Fear. Uncertainy. Doubt. You're trying everything you can think of to discredit the C2Ds as the better overclocking option, all of which have proven to be false. You pull numbers and facts out of your ass, pretending to know what you're talking about when you don't even overclock yourself. :sarcastic: 
March 26, 2008 11:28:11 AM

torcida_kutina said:
Don't even try to discuss with zenmaster, 'couse he told me once that x21X0 is faster than X2 5000BE. Of course, he thought of X21X0 OC-ed to 3,4GHz compared to X2 5000 on stock speed. So, that is same like this - my Fiat Punto tuned with abarth engine with 220HP is faster than your VW Golf GTI with 175HP. Am i actually SMART to say this. Thanks ZEN for your enlightment. Try sometimes to test CPUs at home (didn't i said that once before?). Again PAT, don't even try to discuss with ZEN, it doesn't have any sense. And he's not the only one. There are people on this forum who's knowledge of building computers are based on what they read on internet, not on their own experience. And thats said.
Sorry for my english - if i wrote something incorrect.


Both Systems are compared at Max OC.
Please try adding COMPREHENSION to the reviews.

I link you to FACTS.
You link to nothing because the FACTS don't exist to support your claim.

Your Avatar shows your Bias.
I don't have a Bias, but Simply recommend the best product.

The X2 Chips had their run and whooped Intel for a while.
Since the C2D release, AMD has not had a proper response.

Only the generally failed Phenom, which shipped months late, and they still can't ship a chip to run at the anticpated speeds that were announced that were going to ship a year ago.

March 26, 2008 11:30:13 AM

Quote:

Disclaimer: I don't overclock, or recommend overclocking as overclocking is a major contributer to global warming. If fact to save energy you should all underclock. btw: Its hard to underclock my cpu to 1.7GHZ and keep it stable at 1v vcore


I do Both.
My C2D is OverClocked and UnderVoltaged.
Provides Good Power and Cool/Quiet Operation.

March 26, 2008 12:25:46 PM


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817103457
Would that PSU supply the following gear with enough power?:

C2D E4500 @ 3ghz (stock voltage)
GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L motherboard
EVGA 8800GT 512 video card
4 gigs (2 x 2gb) of g.skill DDR2 800 ram
and the obvious extras... few hard drives, pci card or two, dvd-r drive, fans, a couple usb devices..etc.

March 26, 2008 1:58:11 PM

From the Xbit lab article, link posted by Zen...

"Conclusion
All in all Pentium E2160 and E2140 processors made a great entrance. They have pushed the performance of budget solutions to a totally new level. With the price of less than $90 and promising Core micro-architecture these processors can become a great basis for contemporary low-cost systems. From this standpoint they look much better than the Pentium D processors on NetBurst micro-architecture that used to be the only offering for this segment.

Of course, the performance level of Pentium E2160 and E2140 processors doesn’t look as mind-blowing as that of their Core 2 Duo counterparts. Their relatively low clock frequencies and L2 cache cut down to only 1MB do their “dirty deed”. However, in the majority of real applications these processors outperform all alternative solutions. Although I have to specify something here. When we speak of comparatively high performance of these new processors, it is important to keep in mind that they still lose to the youngest Athlon 64 X2 models in most games where the size of L2 cache memory matters a lot.

However, the results of our overclocking experiments can make all your doubts vanish. Since Pentium E2160 and E2140 are based on Allendale L2 core stepping these CPUs will overclock approximately to the same frequencies as Core 2 Duo E4000 series. As a result, if you are lucky enough you may be able to get your new processor to work as fast as the top of the line dual-core Core 2 Extreme processors, which is a very good deal considering it will cost you less than $100."

With very expert overclocking it seems that a e21xx chip could do as well as a e4xxx chip and during a bonzi run might complete a test as well as a upper end C2D. Is our op going to manage that? Will he get the ram necessary? Will he get the mb necessary? Would anybody run a cpu at these levels day to day? How long would a cpu last when pushed to these levels? Did Intel provide a specially selected cpu to xbit? Indy racers can get 2000hp out of a 1 liter motor that can somtimes make it 500 miles (actually they do that for time trials and detune for the race to about 1000hp because the motors can't handle it). FUD and hype are everywhere these days. One can understand it coming from a company's PR department but why would a private person constantly engage in it? OP IMHO the e4xxx series is better for you or something e6xxx or e8xxx if you decide on Intel. The x2 5000+ be is also a very good choice. Asus MBs will do the overclocking for you in the BIOS, very easy make a percentage choice and reboot and wha-la. I didn't want to tinker around to find the 3.4ghz on my daily driver computer. You will as I said before determine if Intel or AMD is where you want to be for the next upgrade. Getting a good mb now with good ram and hd that will allow you to upgrade the cpu and vc as new products come out is your most important choice. By the way brand loyality is not a bad thing. There are a lot of reviews out there, check them out and make your own decision. Again as i said before check this link http://www.yougamers.com/benchmarkticker/

I just saw a e2xxx get a 4500 ish total score on 3dmark06. To me it appears the systems with an 8600gt are low scoring under this benckmark at least from the scores that come across the ticker.
March 26, 2008 10:29:03 PM

wow, it doesn't take long for people to get off topic in this forum does it? :ange: 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817103457
Would that PSU supply the following gear with enough power?:

C2D E4500 @ 3ghz (stock voltage)
GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L motherboard
EVGA 8800GT 512 video card
4 gigs (2 x 2gb) of g.skill DDR2 800 ram
and the obvious extras... few hard drives, pci card or two, dvd-r drive, fans, a couple usb devices..etc.
!