ppeg34

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Mar 31, 2009
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I was just wondering if it would be possible to raid raided drives. Here is what I mean...

Take 2 160 GB drives and raid 0 them.
Take 2 more 160 GB drives and raie 0 them also.
Then raid the two raids together into raid 0... or is this just dreaming.

Thanks
 

4745454b

Titan
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Unless I'm missing some controller benefit, why would you? Just take all four disk and make a single AID0 array with all four disks. You can AID0 more then two disks at a time.

Intel does have the matrix RAID controller on their motherboards. It allows you to buy two 160GB disks and partition them into two 80GB partitions each. You can then AID0 two of the 80GBs, then RAID1 them onto the other. This allows a RAID0+1 array with only two disks while everyone else needs 4. As I said however, just make a 4 disk array.

Speaking of which, why are you doing this? I've got money that says you don't need the power of this array.
 

sub mesa

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Nested RAID levels.. they are useful for complicated setups.

RAID0+1 or RAID10 are common though, and are also nested. But RAID00 (a RAID0 of several RAID0 arrays) is none-sense, you're better off creating one big RAID0 array.

But RAID50 or even 51 are existent. Sure takes alot of disks. ;)
 

ShadowFlash

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Feb 28, 2009
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The only benefit would be using software RAID spanning multiple contollers, or when using external enclosures that provide there own RAID levels before reaching the RAID controller.

I've done this in the past just to be goofy using....
2x18gb scsi hardware RAID along with 2 newer model ( at the time ) 36gb scsi running non-raid, then software RAIDing the 3 36gb logical drives.
No real reason to do it though....

As far as 4x RAID 0 adding to much "overhead" ??? I've never experienced any such issue, although I typically start with fast access drives to begin with I typically don't lose anything in access times, and in theory you shouldn't as the drives are always synched. In fact access times actually marginally improve as there is a greater chance that some of the drive heads are closer to the position of the stripe for any particular file due to the inherent staggered nature of striping. You would not notice any slowdown in everyday use regardless of the number of drives in RAID 0. I have several 14 drive arrays running and have tested this before.

In reference to the amazingly bizzare 2 disk RAID 01, then yes, access times would be truly obnoxious and would result in an incredibly useless real-world array destroying the benefits of RAID 0,1, and 01/10 in the process.
 

sub mesa

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The data is not redundant on RAID0, so it cannot choose which disk it wants to read from because that disk has its head is closest to the desired data track. As for access times: with a stripe misalignment you will loose much of the parallel operation RAID0 can offer, and is common with people using Windows. In fact virtually all RAID-arrays have a misalignment with the filesystem, causing lower performance. But it usually only affects IOps and access times, not throughput, that's why people wrongfully assume RAID increases access times or that it only increases throughput and not IOps performance.
 

ShadowFlash

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I know RAID 0 is not capable of the multiple simultaneous reads or greatly improved seek times due to positioning that RAID 1 allows ( I actually prefer RAID 1 for an OS specifically for these performance benefits over RAID 0 ). However, the actual staggered position of the drive heads after time on a RAID 0 due to file sizes not filling the entire stripe WIDTH, does marginally improve random access times. If the random reads/writes are smaller than the actual stripe SIZE, then greater seeks AND IO can be achieved, albeit at a random gain from positioning ( this is true for all RAID levels ). This "stripe misalignment" you refer to is just a natural occurence in any RAID level other than bit level striping which require all heads to be synched at all times. Byte level striping does not have this restriction, thus having no real "stripe misalignment" to be concerned over. RAID 5 is the best example of this phenomenon, as sequential performance is greatly reduced as the array is filled with data not just because of the slower areas of the HDD's, but also from the increased staggered drive head positioning. All byte-level RAID sets have the potential to increase IO. These are not vague assumptions, but readily available facts. I have 4x 14 drive SCSI arrays ( along with smaller SATA/SAS arrays ) that I've done exhaustive testing and benchmarking with ALL RAID levels. The wrong assumption on seek times or IO usually result from starting with SATA drives with poor native seek times to begin with, mobo or very low end controllers, and poor partitioning stratagys. The actual RAID level should not be faulted.

With that being said, I still see no reason for a single 4 drive RAID 0 in the OP's case. 1 2x RAID 1 or 0 for the OS, and 2x RAID 1 or 0 for programs or storage would yield better system performance. With 4 drives, this could be a possible config.....

2x 160GB RAID 1......160GB total, partitioned as....
C: windows ( along with A/V and and any other system related tools i.e. nero ) 30GB partition
This gives the multiple simultaneous read performance RAID 0 does not provide along with improved random seek times. Your A/V and OS will appreciate this more than a RAID 0 in most cases, although benchmarking will not show this value unless queue depth is increased. Superior to RAID 0 for multi-tasking.
E: Storage ( Set-up files, drive images, Important files, My Docs ) 130GB partition
The simple mirroring of RAID 1 gives you DATA security here for the stuff you don't want to lose. If imaging your OS drive, make sure to output it to the "F" partition first, then copy it to the "E" partition to reduce drive head contention. Moving My Docs here also saves on fragmentation to your system disk.

2x 160GB RAID 0......320GB total, partitioned as....
D: Programs ( all large programs such as games, office, or whatever ) 60-120GB partition depending on requirements
Using RAID 0 here will improve load times for the large apps/games as well as providing some IO improvement.
F: Scratch disk ( all the files you don't mind losing or have backed-up elsewhere ) remaining 240GB )
The increased sequential speeds make this partition nice for media files already backed-up on DVD's. This partion should also be used as your working partition for any transcoding and such as the programs for that behavior are located on a completely different RAID array ( drive "C" ), further reducing drive contention.

I usually prefer a 3 logical drive set-up as opposed to this 2 logical drive set-up, as contention for "My Documents" can exist. This can be reduced by placing programs which access these files regularily on the D partition. If using XP with a mild amount of RAM, then swap file placement can be important here also. After a fresh install, remove the swap file from C: and create one on the empty D: partion using a fixed size. Re-Boot, run a couple of defrags ( I prefer DiskTrix Ultimate Defrag, as it allows direct control over file placement on the physical HDD's.....learn it, use it, love it ). Now Re-create the swap file on C: again using a fixed size. Having a swap file on both drives will be very beneficial in lower RAM situations. Windows XP does a great job of intelligently managing multiple swap file locations i.e. a program running on C: will use the swap file on D: and vise-versa.

The most common mistake I see is people forgetting that sequential reads and writes are only as good as the destination or source when doing file management ( a weakest link scenario ). Load times will be improved by the reads, but unless your other drives/arrays are capable of these high speeds you won't gain anything.

Hope this essay long post helps........