Do these specs sound ok?

[PiffleUK]

Hi

I've found the forums here and various other places on the net have been invaluable in me learning more about the different components in a computer and I've managed to put together a list of things I think I'd like to use to build a machine that will run my 3D modelling and rendering applications such as Cinema4D with ease.

I've never built a computer before though I've had a hand in upgrading my current one several times so I have a basic gist of how to go about it. I'd really appreciate if someone with experience in these things would run their eye over my list of components and let me know if I've made any glaring errors in choice or left anything vital out?

Case: Antec P182 Advanced Super Midi Tower
http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Comp...anced+Super+Midi+Tower+Black+?productId=28846

Motherboard: Abit motherboard IP35-E Intel P35 LGA775 Core2 Quad / Core2 Duo / Core2 Extreme PCI-E x16 SATA 3G Gigabit LAN ATX
http://www.microdirect.co.uk/(17581)Abit-motherboard-IP35E-Intel-P35-LGA775-Core2.aspx

PSU: Antec NeoHE 550W Modular ATX2.0 + EPS12V PSU 80mm low speed/noise fan
http://www.microdirect.co.uk/productInfo.aspx?ProductID=11448

CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad - Q6600 - 95W G0 stepping - OEM
http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Comp...600++-+95W+G0+stepping+-+OEM+?productId=28805

CPU cooler: Cooler Master Hyper TX2 CPU Cooler
http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Comp...+Master+Hyper+TX2+CPU+Cooler+?productId=29655

GPU: XpertVision GeForce 8600 GT 512MB DDR2, PCI-E

http://www.microdirect.co.uk/(27100)XpertVision-GeForce-8600-GT-512MB-DDR2-PCIE.aspx

Hard Drives: Two (one for backup) Seagate 500GB Barracuda SATA II 300 7200rpm 8MB cache
http://www.microdirect.co.uk/(17045)Seagate-500GB-Barracuda-SATA-II-300-7200rpm.aspx

DVD writer: LG DVD ROM GDR-H30NBL
http://www.microdirect.co.uk/(21295)LG-DVD-ROM-GDRH30NBL-Black-16x52-IDE-oem.aspx

OS: Microsoft Windows XP Professional 64bit OEM
http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Soft...ows+XP+Professional+64bit+OEM?productId=17981

I've been told that if I want to install XP pro 64bit on this system I'll need to install the drivers for the hard drives from a floppy disk so rather than buy one for this purpose I was thinking I might take the drive off my current computer just for that purpose (should it really prove necessary).

Thanks in advance.

 

[antas]

Where's the memory?

Anyway if you're seriously will use this rig for 3D modelling, more memory will be better.

Secondly, are planning for gaming as well? If you are planning to use this rig for modelling only, and not for gaming, I really advice you to use dedicated card for 3D graphic renderring/modelling like NVIDIA Quadro or ATi FireGL. It is more expensive, but it will pay off.

Try to look this article for reference:
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/11/09/workstation_shootout/

 

[PiffleUK]

Oops, thanks Antas, that is on my shopping list but not in my post.

I'd picked out "Kingston 4GB Value RAM DDR2 667MHz PC2 5300"

The 4GB decision came from being told that Windows XP, even the 64bit version, and most of my applications specifically are not yet able to fully access more than 4GB RAM (most can't even access dual cores but at least I will be able to multi-task while rendering which I can't do at the moment). As long as there's scope in my system to upgrade it if things change then I can always go higher in a few years time. My last computer has had to last me for six years, I don't have a budget for frequent changes so I'm trying to keep my options open for upgrading in the future this time.

Although I'm a keen artist I'm not a professional graphics person so can't really justify the extra the Quadro would cost. Thanks for the link to the article, I hadn't come across that one. I'd known I didn't want to go below the Nvidia 8 series based on an article I read here:

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/398/2

The types of problems I run into currently with rendering all centre on volumetric, transparent or translucent shaders so I was particularly attracted by the different way the shaders are handled in the 8 series though I'm guessing that a specific graphics rendering card will have made at least equivalent if not better advances in design. I'll do a check around and see just how much more expensive the Quadro would be.

 

[amd_fanboi]

well, the 8600 cards aren't that great...

wait, scrap that... the 8600 cards are terrible (for midrange), but if you aren't gaming...

 

[PiffleUK]

The 8600 is terrible for gaming or for everything?

Gaming certainly isn't a priority, about the most demanding games I run are the little java online games like Mah Jong and stuff. If my current GEF4 MX420 does the job for most of the games I play so I expect anything I buy now will outperform dramatically to what I'm used to

 

[PiffleUK]

EEk, my bit of research into Quadros showed prices over a thousand pounds. Definitely out of my budget. Maybe I'd go top of the NVidia 8 range if it was going to be dramatically better but can't really spend more than £200 to £300 max on the GPU.

 

[amd_fanboi]

8800GTS??? 3870X2??? dunno if those wrok well for 3d rendering

 

[lunyone]

From a graphics performance standpoint here's how I see them falling into place right now: 3870x2>8800gts (g92)>8800gt 512mb>3870>9600gt>3850 512mb>3850 256mb>8800gt 256mb. Now if I was going to spend about $150 or so, I'd get the 3850 256mb, but if I could afford a little more I'd go with the 3870 or the 8800gts (g92). Both of those selections have dual slotted cooling, which obviously helps keep things cool. You can decide which GPU to go with, but I'd pick the 3850 256mb over the 8600 ANY day, assuming that I'd could afford it.

 

[amd_fanboi]

true that

 

[antas]

Hi Piffle,

yes Quadro pricing is really fly up to heaven I thought at first that you're running some home company or something, that's why I'm suggesting that ..

I read an article somewhere about Quadro/FireGL and Radeon/GeForce comparison on 3D rendering, and the difference is quiet amazed me .. which is justify the high price (sadly, I forgot to bookmark those article).

Anyway, back to our story. Yes with 200-300$ budget it would be better to get 8800GTS 512MB. That's the fastest card you can get below 300$ I must say.

For the memory, yes, for Windows XP, 4GB is your limit. Actually XP will read it as 3.5GB not 4GB. But that's fine. And you should consider that you may have softwares that may not compatible with Vista or XP 64. Go through your SW websites for more info ...

Another thing, for CPU cooling: IMO, you will not need this unless you want to overclock your system. I'm using ABiT mobo, with E6750, HD3870, running computer for around 15hrs a day without any issue.

And I've been trying burn test for 48hrs (I'm always doing this with new system to make sure all configuration is OK). And all system runs well after 48hrs. So you may drop CPU cooler for save some money ... Eh, unless the case doesn't have any fan on it. I don't know this antec casing, since I'm not using one ..

Btw, can you share me what the sofware you're using? I'm interested in to know since currently one of my friend want to setup home company for design (not really into 3D rendering but mostly image/video editing plus maybe some other advertorial stuff). So if you can share or suggest the name of the SW with the pricing it would really help to calculate the overall budget ..

Another idea for discussion: Do we have somebody in this forum with RAID experience? What do you think about RAID for this need (rendering)? Is this may help to boost performance? How far?

 

[zenmaster]

EEk, my bit of research into Quadros showed prices over a thousand pounds. Definitely out of my budget. Maybe I'd go top of the NVidia 8 range if it was going to be dramatically better but can't really spend more than £200 to £300 max on the GPU.

The 8600GT is more than enough.
Even the 8500GT would be fine for you.

The higher-end cards will actually be worse for you not better.
The reason is they will be louder and put off more heat.

I would look for a passively cooled entry level card for your use.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121092 is one example.

 

[ohiou_grad_06]

Although, if he's looking at 100 bucks for an 8600gt, might look at the 8800gs, 149.99 on newegg, though I wonder if since he's not gaming, if an 8600 gt/gts with 512 mb of ram is better for modeling, etc.

 

[PiffleUK]

Hey, thanks for carrying on giving me feedback here. I found the 8800GTS on offer yesterday with just seven left in stock and almost panic bought one. I held off a moment though, just chancing it while I think carefully.

Antas, probably for the best that you lost that link, I might cry at what I could get with a Quadro Seriously though, zenmaster is probably right, when you think of the card I manage with at the moment (GEF4 MX420) I am going to find anything a huge advance. For years I've dreamed of dual monitor support so at least that is coming into sight with the new computer. I've even got two 19" monitors (one from Freecycle) to set it up with

I'd just like to clarify with zenmaster, that you actually think the 8800GTS would not be a good move? That will save me a nice bit of money if I stick with the lower value one. And at least the mobo is capable of taking an upgrade at a later date, which my current one was not.

Antas, my softwares in the 3D category are: Cinema4D (still running vs 8.5 and happy with it), Carrara 6 Pro (a steal of a price from Daz3D when they took over the ownership of the program and sold it off on release), GeoControl - a specialist program for creating terrains for landscape art which I'm beta testing, but which demands a huge amount from my processor and is partly why I'm wanting to upgrade now, absolutely loads of other pieces of freeware which almost certainly will complain about a 64bit system so I may end up having to keep both my old and new computers running to use my full array of tools.

Your friend sounds like he's going into a very different field though and would need quite different software. Depending on budget, the industry standard for 2D image editing has to be Photoshop. There are very good, less pricy options but if you're running a business and want to interchange files with other people the chances are you'd be at a real disadvantage without Photoshop. Beware of versions of CS2 sold on Ebay or Amazon for around £200 which look like the real thing and are expensive enough to convince you. I've been there... very good fakes, but... well I was lucky, I got my money back after a fight with my husband's credit card company!

Video editing is very much out of my domain but I was once told of a brilliant piece of open source video editing software which is reputed to be as good as anything you buy. It's called Jahshaka

http://jahshaka.org/

I just checked www.renderosity.com (free to join forum for digital artists and source of much of my current information on what hardware to go for) by doing a search for RAID. Seems people are discussing it there but I'm not in a position to advise personally.

http://www.renderosity.com/mod/forumpro/showthread.php?message_id=3155561&ebot_calc_page#message_3155561

As I understand it, the thing that takes the hardest hit for any 3D artist is the CPU. A good graphics card is mainly needed for the pieces of software (eg Cinema4D) that use OpenGL to display the modelling interface and as I said above, to enable me to work at a dual monitor rig. My knowledge falls down once we get to things like the 8 series Nvidia cards which _sound_ to me like they are actually working to help the rendering process.

My current work process involves minute adjustments, sit back and wait for several minutes for the display to update, make another adjustment... sit back and wait... etc. It's getting worse than dialup surfing where I used to feel my life was draining away while I watched the blue status bar scroll slowly to a standstill

 

[antas]

Wow, tons of information, thanks piffle ...

I'm bookmarking your link, and will for sure take a look at it ..

Yes, it seems that image/video editing is a really different field with yours . . I'm thinking for photoshop too, this a must I think ... And for this jahshaka, it really look serious site ... Will download the sofware and give it a shot ..

For graphic card (GPU), yes I'm curious with zenmaster as well ... From my point of view (and it's 3D gaming), 8800GTS >>> 8600GT >>> 8500, which is favored me for 8800GTS. And it seems that it will a huge help for 3D rendering as well. If we are dealing with image/video editing, the 8600GT 512MB will be just as good as his 8800GT/S big brother. But this is 3D rendering. It is true that for rendering your processor will also take a huge amount of work, unlike in gaming. And also your memory and hardrive, that's why good performance harddrive will also help. This is where I come with RAID idea. However RAID0 take more headache on the setup compare to standard SATA/IDE setup. Unfortunately I don't have experience to give sufficient information on this. I have this link about RAID for your reference:

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/11/27/raid_scaling_charts/page11.html

It will be great if Toms could make such a 3D rendering analysis with many kind of hardware configurations, VGA comparison, Processor, Mem, HDD config etc. ..

I can imagine your work (take ages for rendering to see something new applied etc). I'm not 3D artist myself, but back to my college time, I saw some fellows doing this with those Indigo system (really expensive and hi-tec back to 11 years ago)