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Computer crashes after installing AMD 64 X2 4200 s.939

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April 5, 2008 6:01:20 PM

Hey,

I have spent 2 days reading forums like this one trying to find a solution, with no satisfying answer. Here's what my problem is:

I updated my computer from Athlon 64 3000+ socket 939 to Athlon 64 X2 4200+ (model ADA4200DAA5BV). It came with AC Freezer 64 Pro. On idle load the temperature is around 40 C. However, on full load (single core) the temp rises to 60 C and both cores on full load the temp. goes over 70 C and after few seconds the computer shuts down. It happens every time. The fan speed goes from idle 900 RMP to max 2250 RPM when the temp is higher than 50 C. I have tried to put the heatsink with the fan from the old Athlon 3000+ cpu but that was slightly worse than AC Freezer. I always reapply the new thermal paste when changing coolers. The AC Freezer sits tight on the cpu. When the SpeedFan and Everest show high temps, I can touch the cooler and it's only slightly warm. I installed a second 80mm fan on the opposite side of the AC Freezer to help the built in fan take out the heat from the heatsink. The heatsink and fans are cleaned, without dust.

One discovery - when the load is 50/50 on both cores, the temp is between 60 - 65. If I force the process to run on CPU 0 in the Task Manager, the temp goes to 55 - 60. If I force the process to run on CPU 1 in the Task Manager, the temp climbs to 71. That's strange.

I have 2 12cm fans in the case, one on the front that sucks the air in, the other one on the back as a exhaust. So the air should flow from the front of the case, enter the cpu heatsink through one fan, exit the heatsink through the second fan, and then goes straight to the 12cm fan on the back of the case or to the PSU.

The temp. rises fast with the full load, then also drops back down fast when going back to idle. All the cpu settings in BIOS are as AMD specification states, disabled Cool N Quiet. Also the CPU-Z displays correct values for voltage and frequency. I don't overclock any component in the computer. The AMD Dual Core Optimizer had no effect.

The computer specification:

MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum (nForce 4, socket 939)
AMD Athlon 64 3000+ s.939, AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ s.939
4x512 MB DDR RAM
MSI 8800GT 512 MB RAM
HDD WD 320 GB SATA
PSU Fortran Blue Storm II, 500 W

I found a very same problem here in forum (http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/246348-10-4200-failed-upgrade) however they never came to a solution. I am clueless, have no more ideas what to try to lower the cpu temp during the full load. I will appreciate any suggestion. Thanks.
April 5, 2008 6:30:40 PM

I have a artic freezer and it is defective from factory. Unlucky for me. You might be putting to much thermal paste on, which will cause it to over heat.
a b à CPUs
April 5, 2008 6:33:14 PM

I have the MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum I'm working on this week, different problem. Can not get dual channel memory to work.

In your case, in BIOS go to Cell menu. Check the voltage to the CPU. There are two setings, one is CPU voltage at startup. Select 'manual'. 1.4v would be the maximum the processor takes. Set the voltage to processor to a lesser value. I have mine set to 1.4v with no problem, but try something like 1.3v or slightly highr. Manual setting Vcore may solve the heating issue. Also download CPUZ and check the voltage to the CPU.

http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php

My system flies, but I can not get dual channel memory to work. Don't know if it is the MB (i highly suspect) or the controller on the cpu. Orderd a new cpu and it fell out of the OEM case in the shipping box and bent the pins. Had to return. Here are the latest Chipset and processor drivers. Try these, my system flies with these.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/nforce_nf4_win2k_6.86.html

amd 64 processor driver near bottom of page, ver. 1/3/2/0.

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/...

Related resources
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April 5, 2008 6:35:11 PM

Does the BIOS properly detect the new CPU?
Are the buss/multiplier/voltage settings correct?
How are you applying the thermal paste?

Don't use your cooler from you old 3000, it is not sufficient. The X2's have a much beefer heatsink and fan (at least the retail versions do)
a b à CPUs
April 5, 2008 6:41:35 PM

@ Roadrunner and JT. I'm going to hijack the thread for a question.

I have the MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum (nForce 4, socket 939) and a AMD 64 3800+ single core CPU. I can not get dual channel to work. Tried tons of memory. No go. My question. Can the memory controller on the AMD 64 3800 be bad and causing dual channel to fail? What are the chances of this. Or is more likely a faulty MB, which I suspect. I have the latest BIOS, all kinds of memory, tried everything, researched thoroughly, etc. Can not get dual channel to work on the NF4 SLI cipset. This MSI Platinum MB is a RMA from MSI from long ago. I even tried the memory that ran in dual channel perfectly on the original board. Any thoughts?
April 5, 2008 7:05:30 PM

is the rear of the heat sink machined nice and smooth?

i've had heat sinks before, were the machining was a bit rough.

get some wet & dry and polish it off.
a b à CPUs
April 5, 2008 7:09:49 PM

Hi badge,
Usually it's people using the wrong slots, but I am pretty sure you know what you are doing here, but.....some of the MSI boards do the studpiest thing and desiginate dual channel with different color slots, rather than matching color slots like everyone else does. This isn't one of those cases?
If not, I guess the only real way to tell is if you have another AMD 64 laying around to slap in it and test.
a b à CPUs
April 5, 2008 7:20:45 PM

Yeah, I know the slots like the back of my hand. I can run fine in single channel, both DIMM slots or either. But I can't get the second channel to cooperate and run dual channel. I can get the system to boot into BIOS if I mix a PC 3200 Corsiar XMS 512 2-3-2-5 with a Kingston value RAM PC3200 512 3-3-3-8 in dual channel (looks to the sky in wonder). But no I have a lot of PC3200 I have tried. I will eventually try another AMD 64 processor. My other 939 CPU's besides this 3800 some kid gave me for building his system are in use. I plan to pull mtyFX55 or 4800X2 and trying for dual channel with this board. Memory controller on CPU with AMD 64. Thanks.
April 5, 2008 7:22:38 PM

Thank you for quick responses.

I put only a small bit of the thermal paste on the cpu and then spread it with a plastic card that came with it. Only a thin layer is there before attaching the heatsink. The rear of the heatsink is nice and clean, I always wipe both processor and the heatsink before attaching.

I installed both drivers - nForce and AMD. It didn't change anything concerning the temperature. I only noticed that the load is not 50/50, but now like 70/30. Here's a picture from the SpeedFan when full load on a single core was started, then on both cores, then back to idle:


The processor is correctly detected by BIOS and by Windows XP (SP2). All the frequencies and speeds are correct.

I will now try to change the voltage to 1.3 V in BIOS.

About Dual Channel memories - you have to install them either to first two banks (1 and 2), or the other two banks (3 and 4). They have different colors. It worked for me. If I use all 4 banks, then even my modules are DDR400, they only run at DDR333 - it's a feature, also written in the manual.
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April 5, 2008 7:26:54 PM

Try 1.3v Vcore in Cell menu and check the voltage with CPUZ. Yeah, I tried the first two slots then the second pair of green/purple 3/4. No go. The system will only run with the RAM in the green slots. Eitheror or both. I can get in BIOS with one combo of RAM instaled in slots 1/2 green/purple dual channel. I've tried everything in BIOS, but can n ot boot to windows.
April 5, 2008 7:32:06 PM

you may not be using enough thermal paste. if your heat spreader or base of your heatsink are concave, youll need to either lap both or use more thermal paste.
April 5, 2008 7:44:27 PM

Set the voltace to 1.3V, CPUZ shows voltage from 1.24 to 1.29 V. The temperature under the full load is now 10 C higher than when using the default CPU VID voltage. Again, the temperature rises and drops in the matter of few second, when the load is applied and canceled. Should I go lower than 1.3 V?
April 5, 2008 8:21:52 PM

@ badge.

Looks like they did some odd things how the memory works. Is your memory single sided "SS" or double sided "DS". Look at this:

DIMM Module Combination
Install at least one DIMM module on the slots. Each DIMM slot supports up to a maximum size of 1GB. Users can install either single- or double-sided modules to meet their own needs. Please note that each DIMM can work respectively for singlechannel DDR, but there are some rules while using dual-channel DDR (Please refer to the suggested DDR population table below). Users may install memory modules of different type and density on different-channel DDR DIMMs. However, the same type and density memory modules are necessary while using dual-channel DDR, or instability may happen. Please refer to the following table for detailed dual-channel DDR. Other combination not listed below will function as single-channel DDR.
Green DIMM1 (Ch A) Purple DIMM2 (Ch B) Green DIMM3 (Ch A) Purple DIMM4 (Ch B) System Density
128MB ~ 1GB 128MB ~ 1GB - - 256MB ~ 2GB
- - 128MB ~ 1GB 128MB ~ 1GB 256MB ~ 2GB
128MB ~ 1GB 128MB ~ 1GB 128MB ~ 1GB 128MB ~ 1GB 512MB ~ 4GB

MSI Reminds You...
• Dual-channel DDR works ONLY in the 3 combinations listed in the table shown above.
• Please select the identical memory modules to install on the dual channel, and DO NOT install three memory modules on three DIMMs, or it may cause some failures.
• Always insert the memory modules into the GREEN slots first, and it is strongly recommended not to insert the memory modules into the PURPLE slots while the GREEN slots are left empty.
• This mainboard DO NOT support the memory module installed with more than 18 pieces of IC (integrated circuit).
• The Maximum memory speed decreases when the following two memory combination is selected:
- Each channel is installed with two double-sided memory module
- Both DIMM1 and DIMM3 are installed with double-sided memory module
• Due to the South Bridge resource deployment, the system density will only be detected up to 3+ GB (not full 4GB) when each DIMM is installed with an 1GB memory module

Recommended Memory Combination List
DIMM Slots Max Speed
Green Purple Green Purple
DIMM1 DIMM2 DIMM3 DIMM4
S - - - DDR 400
- - S - DDR 400
D - - - DDR 400
- - D - DDR 400
S - S - DDR 400
D - D - DDR 333
S S - - DDR 400
- - S S DDR 400
D D - - DDR 400
- - D D DDR 400
S S S S DDR 400
D D D D DDR 333
S: Single Side
D: Double Side

a b à CPUs
April 5, 2008 8:22:59 PM

Well, if CPU Z shows 1.24-1.29v when set to 1.3v in BIOS, those voltages should not cause overheating. So Default voltage to CPU is less than 1.29v? In BIOS, there is also a manual/auto setting for the Northbridge. perhaps try setting that voltage manually to the 'lowest' voltage setting. Also RAM voltage can be set manually. If you are no overclocking, 2.5-2.65v should cover 4 dimms.

I don't know, but perhaps the voltage regulators on your MB are bad causing voltage swings to the MB and overheating. Your CPU temps should not have gone up 10 degrees when you lowered the CPU voltage in BIOS.
April 5, 2008 8:25:39 PM

did you reset the BIOS when you installed the new CPU?
April 5, 2008 8:33:04 PM

Default voltage is 1.35 V in BIOS. CPUZ then shows 1.3 - 1.35. I know it's weird that after setting a lower voltage the temp goes up.

I haven't reseted the BIOS after installing the CPU. I will do that now.

The MB I have is the third one since I bought the computer. The first one worked fine for more than a year, then ate the battery and gave me hell when booting. The second one worked for 6 months and then froze while booting at a certain point. I always got a new MB from RMA. This third one looks good, but after mounting a faster cpu, the problems are back. I can't say it's because of the MB, but all other things have been checked out.

I think I will give one more try to applying more thermal paste. I will then give up and sell the processor, put back the 3000+ single core and after some time get a new computer...
a b à CPUs
April 5, 2008 8:36:23 PM

mkey24 said:
I updated my computer from Athlon 64 3000+ socket 939 to Athlon 64 X2 4200+ (model ADA4200DAA5BV). It came with AC Freezer 64 Pro.

[:mousemonkey:2] Where did you purchase the CPU/HSF combo from?
April 5, 2008 8:50:06 PM

Off the internet. The previous user claims it was running for 100% ok. I think it should be no problem to return it to him and get the money back, if I decide to go that way.

Reseting BIOS has no effect.
a b à CPUs
April 5, 2008 8:50:35 PM

Roadrunner, yes I have read and reread all this. I'm using double sided RAM:

http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=K8N...

RAM I have tried:

Kingston PC3200 2 x 512 2.v 3-3-3-8 (not matched kit)
Kingston PC3200 2 x 1GB Hyper X 2-3-2-5 (matched kit)
Corsiar XMS PC3200 2x 512 2-3-3-6 (matched kit)
Corsair XMS PC3200 2 x 256 2--3-3-6 (matched kit)
Crucial ballistic PC4000 2 x 512 2.5-4-4-12 (matched kit) this ran perfect in dual channel on the original board I RMA'd years ago.

Specs:

MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum (nForce 4 SLI, socket 939) Latest BIOS, latest chipset driver.
AMD 64 3800+ Venice single core 2.4GHz
Radeon 1900GT
RAM (many pairs, not able to run in dual channel)
Maxtor 300GB sata
Enermax 535w 12v 20 x 2 AMP
DVD-RW x 2, Floppy

The system runs great, it flies. But, I got the processor from some kid who got it off the internet from someone he didn't really know from what I understand. Anyway, I wonder if the Ram controller on the 3800+ is bad?

This is a quote from DFI support personnell I found regarding the matter:

Quote:
Yes it is possible that a CPU memory controller is defective. Yes it is possible that a hairline fracture has broken a trace. Yes it is possible that your memory just sux. Yes it is possible that your memory timings needs some tweaking. The point is that any or all of these factors could be leading YOUR system not to boot with 2 memory modules in dual channel mode.


Roadrunner, I have tried everything in BIOS, all the voltage settings, timings, etc., etc. Tried at 400MHz, 333MHz, 266MHz, tried at 2.5v. all the way to 2.85v. on the DIMMS. Adjusted NB, VCore, all latency settings. I've tried all kinds of RAM. The only thing I have not changed is the processor to verify if the onboard RAM controller is bad.

When I put a DIMM in either purple slot in any combination, I get a continual long beep. I get one combination where I can lose the error beep with dual config using slots 1/2 green/purple. If I install a 512 Corsair XMS 2-3-2-5 in slot one and a Kingston PC3200 512 value DIMM 3-3-3-8 in slot 2 (dual channel configuraion) I can boot into BIOS! Then it no matter what I do (tried everything) the system will not boot to windows. I put the RAM back in single channel (either green slot or both) and it flies.

Thanks man. I appreciate your help a lot.






a b à CPUs
April 5, 2008 9:01:09 PM

My apologies OP for screwing up the thread. We have the same MB, so we learn I hope.
April 5, 2008 9:05:46 PM

No problem...
April 5, 2008 9:08:52 PM

@ badge:

What happens when you try to load windows? Is windows already installed or are you trying to install? I never buy used on the internet. Alot of people sell defecive computer parts.

It wouldnt hurt to but a cheap CPU to try.
April 5, 2008 9:12:25 PM

Dual channel doent offer more then 3% performance increase anyhow, so I wouldnt stress it to bad.
a b à CPUs
April 5, 2008 9:17:42 PM

I have windows xp installed. Corsair XMS PC3200 in slot 1 green and Kingston PC3200 Value RAM is slot 2 purple I get to BIOS! Tried everything in BIOS. Then Save and Exit and system fails to boot to windows. Remove DIMM from slot 2 purple leaving slot 1 ooccupied and boots right in to windows in single channel. Add a second DIMM to the channel (green slots) run great. It's the second channel, purple slots, that won't work.

Yeah, I built a 3800X2 for a friend of my son's and he gave me his 3800 Venice a while ago. He got it from a guy on his team (video gaming team). I don't know, I thought I would build with the RMA'd Platinum MSI board I have had for years, never used it since rceived from MSI RMA dept.

I bought an AMD 64 4000+ San Diego OEM from new Egg this week. I open the shipping box and the plastic OEM holder had popped open and the 4000 was laying down in the popcorn packaging material. Bent pins. I had to send id back. I plan on pulling my FX55 or 4800X2 and trying it, but those machines are in use a lot. Just have to find the time. I suspect the MB is bad in some capacity.
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April 5, 2008 9:20:01 PM

roadrunner197069 said:
Dual channel doent offer more then 3% performance increase anyhow, so I wouldnt stress it to bad.


Yeah, a little research shows this. Dual channel increases the memory bandwidth, but performance between single and dual channel is small.
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April 15, 2008 3:54:26 AM

I picked up a second (I already own one) ASUS A8N32-SLI. So in the upcomig weeks, I will swap out the MSI Neo4 Platinum (nForce 4, socket 939).

Anyone interested in the MSI? There are no new socket 939 MBs to be had.

http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=K8N...
!