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Why SHOULDN'T you get a 9800GX2

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March 20, 2008 10:13:52 PM

Now here's a controversial topic...

q: Why Shouldn't you get a 9800GX2?

my answer: cos you can get THREE 3870s AND a new mobo for less .... (and three 3870s beat the potty out of a GX2 for sure.)

Whats your answer(s)?

More about : 9800gx2

March 20, 2008 10:17:34 PM

No they don't. Go read some benchmarks.
March 20, 2008 10:21:27 PM

Not sure about 3 3870s beating a 9800GX2? But you can get 2x8800GT for same price :D  and have enough money for a mobo (although a cheap mobo after) and that'll outperform.

p.s. curious can you get an intel motherboard with 3x 16x slots?
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March 20, 2008 10:22:52 PM

cuz an 8800GTS 512 is virtually identical in power when Antialisaing is on, GG drivers.

Also the 9800GTX is virtually identical to an 8800GTS 512, you'd think they could slap 1gb of memory on it or something....

Nvidia can go buy a retractable iron stick for their "you-know-whats." :) 

WE WANT NEW CARDS! NOT RE-BRANDED OLD TECHNOLOGY!
a b U Graphics card
March 20, 2008 10:32:10 PM

Because I dont want a somewhat crippled (any sli/cf solution) trophy, I want a superior product
March 20, 2008 10:52:20 PM

At this point in time the GX2 is probably the best performance for anyone without an SLI/crossfireX board.
And I agree with hatman, there are reviews that show the gx2 beating 3 3780's.
I agree price will be lower with 3780's, but if you want a good price you can have my 4200ti for 50$ that's even better ;-)
Sure the card is far from perfect and it's just an SLI on one card, but it's still the fastest single card for someone with 1 PCIe slot.
March 20, 2008 11:17:56 PM

No but seriously ive seen radeon 7000's at compusa for 60$ wtf is up with that lol.
March 20, 2008 11:57:24 PM

uuuuuhhhhhhh..............because it's $600 too many damn dollars?
a b U Graphics card
March 21, 2008 12:52:38 AM

Ja, doubletake33's got it. $600 is way too much and 3x Crossfire is too complex. I'd just wait for ATI's 4000 series which is near (cross fingers).
March 21, 2008 1:13:22 AM

I'll pass on the Geforce 9 series; in my opinion they appear to be nothing but ****.
March 21, 2008 1:19:50 AM

The U.S retailers are price gouging right now. The price of the GX2 will come down, but not by much. Here in Canada they list for abour 577 to 609. SO I figure you should see em somewheres in the 529-579 range. Not much better, but hey, its something.
March 21, 2008 1:31:50 AM

The topic:
Quote:
Why SHOULDN'T you get a 9800GX2

Answere:
Quote:
Why should I?

I had one of the severn DFI setups in my profile die so I built a fast replacement about 4 weeks ago.

At first I had a 38** untill I found I could have a 8800GTS (G92) for the same price...I sent the -unopened- ATI card back for a refund.

The human eye can only see so much and anything -if- it is better than the 8800GTS (G92) only matters in a -benchmark- and for most people is 100% worthless.
Playing a game you can't tell between that and a GFX card 10 times faster.

If people have money to burn...and think that after "point X" they are going to get a higher value/game high....let those people think so.

The 8800GTS 512 (G92) can be found for as low as $220 last time I looked.
March 21, 2008 3:40:29 AM

8800GT SLI is the best imo. $350 for that kind of performance is just amazing.
March 21, 2008 5:48:43 AM

Cost, There will always be something to beat it in the future, and... Cost. 3 good reasons not to buy one.
March 21, 2008 6:00:36 AM

Hey you do know that 3way CF takes a top line X38 or 48 board like the P5E3 deulux
March 21, 2008 7:05:35 AM

Because its not a upgrade, its a ripoff.
a b U Graphics card
March 21, 2008 7:32:44 AM

Ibanezrg570 said:
The U.S retailers are price gouging right now. The price of the GX2 will come down, but not by much. Here in Canada they list for abour 577 to 609. SO I figure you should see em somewheres in the 529-579 range. Not much better, but hey, its something.

Oh you think US retailers are price gouging? The GX2 goes for over $800 in Australia, and I'm sure that's dirt cheap compared to somewhere like Thailand.
March 21, 2008 7:46:40 AM

becaz u SHOULDN'T encourage vandalism.
March 21, 2008 8:02:11 AM

rockbyter said:
Cost, There will always be something to beat it in the future, and... Cost. 3 good reasons not to buy one.


I ha
March 21, 2008 8:02:26 AM

rockbyter said:
Cost, There will always be something to beat it in the future, and... Cost. 3 good reasons not to buy one.


I have better three reasons
1st good reason
2nd good reason
3rd good reason

There is something wrong with the message editor :p 
March 21, 2008 12:26:00 PM

lol... 8800's are good but not awesome. I cant play COD4 at 1920x1200 with 4x aa and get solid FPS. Same with a lot of other games.


As I've said before, as soon as price comes down to £300 ill be getting one. £380 atm. Down from £420 on launch day lol.
March 21, 2008 12:35:11 PM

Oh it's so difficult to decide what to buy :-(

I think like this:

1/ Or I get the best now, enjoy all current games at max quality and still play 2009 games on the same hardware with a less quality. (in this case I'm thinking 9800GTX SLI on a 790i OR 9800GX2 on a X48 with cheaper DDR2)

2/ Or I get something cheaper now and replace my video card(s) next year with the card that has the best price/perfo at that moment.
(in this case I would get 9600GT SLI or 3870 crossfire)

In the end it will cast me the same but then what Motherboard (X38/48 or Nvidia 790i) should I get now?
Will the ATI cards be good next year or will the G200 beat them all?
March 21, 2008 1:22:25 PM

With the HD 2900 XT disaster ATI was way behind Nvidia 8800 line. Like the story of a rabbit and a turtle. 9800GX2 and 9800GTX is NV sleeping step, while ATI maybe catching them up with a turtle rocket skateboard - HD 4xxx series.

And ATI is on better fab process.... HD 4xxx could be really speedy.... if the put more ROP's.
a b U Graphics card
March 21, 2008 1:27:10 PM

G200 ftw
a b U Graphics card
March 21, 2008 2:10:54 PM

I agree with the guy who says price/performance. I've got an SLI mobo, what you may see me do over the next couple of years is grab a 9600gt, then as prices go lower and I want more performance, SLI it with another 9600, that way, still get some decent playtime out of the cards, and still spent less than the 9800 gx2
March 21, 2008 3:54:12 PM

If I could get a GX2 for $600 in GBP (just over £300) I'd jump at it, stop complaining, you get everything cheap anough anyway, I'm gonna have to shell our £310+ for two decent GTs for SLI. Yes, everything has it's own perspective, but $600 really is quite cheap, even if not so cheap in comparison to other cards over there. Many of the Europeans and Aussies are jealous at that price tag. The only 9800GX2s that I can find in the UK are £420+ (about $850) so shed a tear for your colonial buddies.
March 21, 2008 5:43:27 PM

randomizer said:
Oh you think US retailers are price gouging? The GX2 goes for over $800 in Australia, and I'm sure that's dirt cheap compared to somewhere like Thailand.


tell ya what, hop a flight to manila over a long weekend and pick one up...this thing WILL be dirt cheap. they sell 10k rolexes there for like 2k. so, if you can afford it, go ahead
March 22, 2008 1:29:10 AM

The thing I'm annoyed about the GX2 is that they don't support Directx 10.1 and they are still using GDDR3 - while ATI is already using GDDR4 and already supporting DirectX 10.1. Come on, NVIDIA, get your head out of the hole already and enough with the G92 refreshes already.
a b U Graphics card
March 22, 2008 1:50:19 AM

GDDR3 is cheaper (I think), so that's why they are still using it. DX10.1 won't be used until they start using DX10.... PROPERLY.
March 22, 2008 2:02:59 AM

welllll now,, if i can get a single video card that gives my 40+fps no matter what i'm quite content and so is my hydro bill,after all hollywood has been getting away with 24fps for over a century..who needs the static??:) 
March 22, 2008 2:19:01 AM

Because Nvidia drivers are not more smarter than the Raydeyons.
March 22, 2008 8:00:19 AM

tjoepie said:
At this point in time the GX2 is probably the best performance for anyone without an SLI/crossfireX board.


That's the main reason for a 9800gx2 or a 3870x2. Single PCIe x16 pure and simple. That's why I've got mine. If I go CrossfireX later this year, it will be with a similarly clocked 4850, or a cheap 3870x2 after the 4870x2 arrives. I expect a 9800gx2 will also be usable in a triple or quad SLI setup once drivers get worked out.

Still, triple SLI for the 9800gx2 or CrossfireX for the 3870x2 are enthusiast choices that need a CPU and PSU to match. Dual GPU cards at the high end are for the masses who do not have SLI or Crossfire boards.

I see advantages with a 3870x2 in most games I play. Only one doesn't seem to support Crossfire. So I recommend a 9800gx2 for Nvidia fans who don't have SLI boards.

My only major problem with Nvidia's new dual card is that it's overpriced and doesn't cool as well as the 3870x2. When Huang gets it through his head that dual GPU cards are the future high end solution, then perhaps Nvidia's engineers will copy ATI and do single PCB on the next generation dual card.

random1283 said:
Hey you do know that 3way CF takes a top line X38 or 48 board like the P5E3 deulux


Don't forget the 790 boards with 4 PCIe x16. AMD's coming out with the 880 chipset this summer, which should bring improvements. That's the CrossfireX board I'll consider. I wonder what PSU I'd need for a 3870x2 and one or two 4850's (expected to be clocked at 850, just like my card, but the DDR5 RAM will be faster).

Of course, a Phenom 9850 clocked high as possible might be needed to avoid CPU limitations. A 45nm Deneb starting at 3.0 stock and then overclocked might be best. The way things are going, review sites are reporting CPU limitations at 1680 x 1050 with SLI and Crossfire setups and Q6600's!

One last comment on the 9800gx2, it's best with a 30" LCD and a 3870x2 shines with a 24" LCD. At 22" and lower resolutions, neither live up to their potential, which is why I'm saving up for a 24" LCD in April.
March 22, 2008 11:15:47 AM

anyhow,
I think that the GX2 is pretty much a dead investment.
If I was you, i'd wait for a little moment until the new Geforces come out (g 200 chips). I'm playing on a 22" monitor , @ 1680x1050 with crysis on high and get solid stable fps. I just don't think it's worth the bloody price for that 9800GX2. And I know how annoying it is to your card crumbling down when you just spend $600 on it. But hey... that's business. I'd just take the G92 (Geforce 8800GTS 512) anyway.

And you'll never be future proof cause simply, technology is constantly improving... you're PC might last few years... but still... within 5 years your PC will be old and you'll have to upgrade again.

I think SLI or CF is pretty much a waste of money anyway. Sure the SLI'd GT's and CF 3870 are pretty much a good bang for your buck. I just don't see why it should be needed, cause simply you can just buy one powerfull card, or just wait until a newer card comes that has THAT performance on 1 die.

Also the power consumption when gaming increases... and leaves more heat in your case. Higher ambient temperature in your case. Less lifespan of the CPU (bit overreacted)

I'd just wait until newer chips arrive. And look again for benchmarks then,
March 22, 2008 11:38:25 AM

So basically simply because its 2 chips instead of 1 you are dismissing it completly?
March 22, 2008 11:47:11 AM

no no no , I'm not dismissing it, I'm only trying to say that I don't see much that of an improvement using 2 chips instead of one single. (why not make 1 chip bigger instead of using 2 chips)

I used to have a 3DFX voodoo 2 paired with my ATI 2mb
that was rock solid performance. On my Pentium MMX back then.

I just don't like the double cheeseburger ideas. Especially when they are not as effective as just one single card (per chip that is). I just hope future games are going to have SLI and CF implemented and used effectively, 80% boosts so that the scaling for CF and SLI is better. So that the consumer does actually benefit from it to save money and time.

And sorry for my horrible english, I'm 17 years old and from The Netherlands ;) 
March 22, 2008 12:37:56 PM

I honesty I didn't read the entire post.

I just want to add that with my BFG OC2 8800GT, I won't upgrade until either the R700 or (not sure about codename) the G200 is release later this year.

That's the best reason not to get a 9800GX2 for me. Under at least a 100% general improvement, it,s not worth upgrading... not with my budget at least.
March 22, 2008 12:55:50 PM

I'm waiting for a real jump in technology and performance. NVidia has been doing the bare minimum it has to and reaping alot of profits. They make damn good cards, but without a stiff competition we all suffer :( 
March 22, 2008 1:17:10 PM

Ive got $460 invested in my 2 BFG 8800 GTS G92 cards.Dont hold me to it,but I saw a post in the Nvidia website showing benchmarks between the new GX2,and diffrent SLI setups.In most cases the GX2 was between 3-7 fps better than my 2 GTS cards.Like someone posted earlier in this topic,the human eye can only see so much.Once you get so high in fps you cant notice 3-7 fps differance.I play at 1680X1050,I know my 2 cards are overkill at that,but they were $140 cheaper than the GX2.
March 22, 2008 1:33:17 PM

Yes said:
I'm waiting for a real jump in technology and performance. NVidia has been doing the bare minimum it has to and reaping alot of profits. They make damn good cards, but without a stiff competition we all suffer :( 


Its wickedly fast and its quite cheap for what you get...

8800gtx was $600 when it launched, this card is 50% faster or more and is $600 too, its a single slot card and you can Quad Sli it in the future and power consumption would be similar to 2 Ultra's in Sli...

Its power consumption is remarkable...

It has the same idle consumption as 2 x 9600gt and same load as 2 by 8800gt and it can compete with 2 Ultra's in Sli, which need a 1k psu....

http://techreport.com/articles.x/14355/9
March 22, 2008 1:49:26 PM

Hatman said:
No they don't. Go read some benchmarks.


I do not think there are any benchmarks for 3 3870s.

Consider this:

9800GX2 has two gpus (duh)
x3 3870s has three gpus

Crossfire tends to scale better than SLI.

You lose, x3 3870s > 9800GX2
a b U Graphics card
March 22, 2008 3:46:12 PM



Should of done your research.


http://www.anandtech.com/video/sho [... said:
i=3266&p=4


Nice go at making youreself look clever. Doesn't even count
OC'ing which will make 9series/8series destroy the ATis due to having
more hardware to start off with.]

Should of done your research.


http://www.anandtech.com/video/sho [...] i=3266&p=4


Nice go at making youreself look clever. Doesn't even count
OC'ing which will make 9series/8series destroy the ATis due to having
more hardware to start off with.


Posting a link to one test.....


and without AA



See i can do it too.
March 22, 2008 4:02:44 PM

Lets say I get an ATI 3780X2 now, will I be able to crossfireX it with a 4780X2 later in the year?
Would the newer card only work at the speed of the older card?
That crossfire between different cards seems wierd.
If I knew the aswer to this is positive I would consinder an X48 with one X2 now, or else I think I'll get the more expensive 790i & 9800GTX SLI.
The facts are the nvidia cards are faster... but more expensive.
March 22, 2008 4:09:30 PM

3870x2 or the even slower 3870 tri Xfire is not as fast as the 9800GX2.plus intel precessor is faster anyway.
March 22, 2008 4:12:41 PM

another point is you cant really compare a graphics setup that got 1.5G of video mem(3x3870) to 1gb mem setup(9800GX2).its more realistic to compare 9800gx2 to 3870x2 which are in the same league.

Tri Xfire should compare to tri sli 8800GTS or forthcomin 9800gtx
March 22, 2008 4:13:56 PM

In all the talk with the x2 gcards a board with generation 2 pcix well be a must to get the power required. You can use a gen 1 but there has been issues with games and gen 1
a b U Graphics card
March 22, 2008 4:28:26 PM


I can do it too! :kaola:  Oblivion is not the most demanding game now :lol: 
]


^
Quote:
Crysis Performance

Version: 1.2

Settings: High Quality with Shaders set to Very High

For this test, we recorded our own demo using the record and demo console commands. Each test was run three times, and we took the highest score of the three (usually the second and third runs were the same or very nearly so). Our recorded demo consisted of a 20 second run through the woods in the level "rescue" and we verified the performance of our timedemo using FRAPS. The run was near the beginning of the level and we stayed clear of enemies in order to reduce the impact of AI on our graphics benchmark.

This isn't one that even the almighty 9800 GX2 can handle at 2560x1600. While we could play with Very High settings as lower resolutions, we found this quality setup to be the sweet spot for 1920x1200 gaming. Which was quite nice indeed.

The 9800 GX2 solidly dominates the competition here. The 8800 Ultra and 9600 GT SLI setup are way behind before we're CPU limited. We also left out the 3-way CrossFire setup on this title, as we saw no scaling from a 2-way setup.


It is important to note here that we were more limited on our skulltrail system at lower resolution than on the 790i board. It is possible to get performance over 45fps on a different platform with these settings, but we wanted to keep our numbers coming from a system where the hardware could be directly compared.
March 22, 2008 4:38:16 PM

if test are done more realistic using platform available oni each setup like 790i+9800gx and spider+3870x2 or xfire.and overall performance the intel platform should dominate anything on the market currently available.
March 22, 2008 4:43:48 PM

iluvgillgill said:
another point is you cant really compare a graphics setup that got 1.5G of video mem(3x3870) to 1gb mem setup(9800GX2).its more realistic to compare 9800gx2 to 3870x2 which are in the same league.

Tri Xfire should compare to tri sli 8800GTS or forthcomin 9800gtx


512mb effective... what has 1gb mem? Plus amount of memory isn't what you should be looking at. Also if you read before the price of the 9800GX2 = 3x3870s. Still I would rather just SLI 2x8800GTs for that.
!