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30 fps limit?

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March 22, 2008 5:04:45 PM

hello, i run the the new c&c game and i am limited to 30 fps!
i put everything on max (i have a 8800gt) and the fps is stable on 30, i tried putting it at the minimum and still only 30 fps!
how do i remove this block or whatever?

More about : fps limit

a b U Graphics card
March 22, 2008 5:08:09 PM

You have Vsinc enabled, go into nVidia control panel and disable it
March 22, 2008 5:34:48 PM

I think they've programmed the game to run at 30FPS... my friend had a similar issue but 30FPS is still very fluidic for an RTS game. I bet it very rarely drops below 30FPS.
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a b U Graphics card
March 22, 2008 5:40:40 PM

Thats possible, I dont have it, and I was wondering about that after I answered
a c 99 U Graphics card
March 22, 2008 5:52:22 PM

Vsync should be higher....like lets say 60 or 75...

as said many RTS are fps capped....hell the quake wars demo was capped at 30....

all the fantasy star games are capped at 30(on universe high settings ups it to 60)

Diablo 2 was something like 24 or something but it was smooth anyway

GTA SA is 25(Can be turned off in the options)

GTA VC is at 30(never looked for an option because for that game it was ok)

so it may be the game
a b U Graphics card
March 22, 2008 5:57:07 PM

All vsync does is sync to your monitor, so its cap can vary. 30 sounds possible for vsync (I think mine went 60-30-etc.). So if it was supposed to run at 45 FPS, it cuts it to 30. A game cap sounds plausible too. Check if vsync is enabled.
a c 99 U Graphics card
March 22, 2008 6:36:37 PM

wow, who runs a screen sync of 30? or are you talking if it cant keep 60 it falls back? i think triple buffering is supposed to help this...
a c 99 U Graphics card
March 22, 2008 7:17:01 PM

jaydeejohn, Thanks for that link. since most games i play are DirectX it's good to know how to force triple buffering since i aways play with vsync when possible.
March 22, 2008 7:40:24 PM

Yep, it's a vsync issue. Forcing triple buffering should help as long as your graphics card has enough VRAM. The link that jaydeejohn posted has instructions on how to force vsync with Direct3D titles, which is significantly more difficult than forcing vsync with OpenGL.
March 22, 2008 9:15:44 PM

C&C3 TW and most likely the new expansion are capped at 30fps, don't worry about it the games run fluidly.
March 22, 2008 9:40:12 PM

I think I read in PC Gamer or CGW that if you don't achieve 60 fps with VSync enabled it automatically drops the fps cap to 30.

March 22, 2008 9:46:10 PM

You might want to disable VSync for the fun of seeing how how the fps will get, BUT Vsync is important to prevent "Tearing". Tearing happens when part part of the display is updated with a portion of previous frame and the other part is on the new frame. Usually you can't see it. But it depends on the frame rate which changed based on the scene and differs from computer to computer. Once you see it, it's ugly. In most cases there is no need to have above 30 fps because your eye won't see a difference. However there are other reasons, in a few cases where it's nice to have. Testing and benching etc. If the games handling of objects causes many spikes and dips in frame rate then it might vary from say 80 down to 20 (which looks awful), but usually the game engine will try to prevent this so that you can overall smooth experience. This is most of the purpose of having caps on the frame rate and locking to Vsync as well to prevent tearing. When people benchmark and get excited because they got 100 fps instead of 80, it's really not important to the game in a fluid visual sense. It also creates more heat in the 8800 to have an unnecessarily high fps . It may even cause you to lower other effects to achieve 60 etc. But it's nice to know the hardware is better in the event you should encounter a more intensive game. When I play, I prefer to have everything locked to keep the game as consistent as possible.
a b U Graphics card
March 23, 2008 1:05:17 AM

Yeah, C&C3 is locked at 30 fps max. That's why benchie charts for this game usually have a bunch of cards lumped at 29-30 fps.
March 23, 2008 5:59:23 AM

jzjz said:
You might want to disable VSync for the fun of seeing how how the fps will get, BUT Vsync is important to prevent "Tearing". Tearing happens when part part of the display is updated with a portion of previous frame and the other part is on the new frame. Usually you can't see it. But it depends on the frame rate which changed based on the scene and differs from computer to computer. Once you see it, it's ugly. In most cases there is no need to have above 30 fps because your eye won't see a difference. However there are other reasons, in a few cases where it's nice to have. Testing and benching etc. If the games handling of objects causes many spikes and dips in frame rate then it might vary from say 80 down to 20 (which looks awful), but usually the game engine will try to prevent this so that you can overall smooth experience. This is most of the purpose of having caps on the frame rate and locking to Vsync as well to prevent tearing. When people benchmark and get excited because they got 100 fps instead of 80, it's really not important to the game in a fluid visual sense. It also creates more heat in the 8800 to have an unnecessarily high fps . It may even cause you to lower other effects to achieve 60 etc. But it's nice to know the hardware is better in the event you should encounter a more intensive game. When I play, I prefer to have everything locked to keep the game as consistent as possible.


at the end when u say everything locked, what do you mean?
a b U Graphics card
March 23, 2008 6:23:27 AM

The game is capped at 30FPS because game time (or game speed) is based on framerate. You will find that the game is still smooth even at low framerates like 10FPS, but it is incredibly slow. All C&C games are capped in such a way. If you have ATI Tray Tools, you can globally force off v-sync (even though it isn't v-sync) and this will remove the cap. Good luck in playing the game at triple speed though.
March 23, 2008 6:55:26 AM

Why worry ??
Human eye can not tell the difference after 25 fps
So these crazy numbers 100fps 150fps make no diifference
March 23, 2008 7:27:50 AM

Some people can see a difference, it differs from person to person, one of my mates can tell upto 76 fps, he had to get tested when he joined the airforce.
a b U Graphics card
March 23, 2008 7:42:56 AM

kad said:
Why worry ??
Human eye can not tell the difference after 25 fps
So these crazy numbers 100fps 150fps make no diifference

Maybe you are a robot, but the human eye doesn't see in frames, and therefore doesn't have a limit. Any FPS player will tell you that at 25FPS you might as well try playing the game with your monitor off.
March 23, 2008 8:22:35 AM

And the cat follows :p 
a b U Graphics card
March 23, 2008 8:53:54 AM

I don't have the limitations of the human eye. My vision transcends the fourth dimension. I always know where you are, even before you get there.
March 23, 2008 9:02:29 AM

randomizer said:
I don't have the limitations of the human eye. My vision transcends the fourth dimension. I always know where you are, even before you get there.


lol
March 23, 2008 9:26:59 AM

To FrozenGpu:

"at the end when u say everything locked, what do you mean?".

I think my wording was clumsy, but I meant simply to keep the frame rate limited to something like say 30. Of course it depends on the game and circumstances. One example is Flight Simulator X. If I set it so it can have any frame rate (no target fps), then the trees speed up and slow down depending on how many are being drawn. So if I hit a cluster of trees and then a void, the game unrealistically speeds up and slows down. The trees and other scenary can look jerky due to this. By setting a target frame rate (what I was calling locking), it looks much smoother since the game can't artificially speed up to say 50 fps just because there was a lack of detail for an instant. The 3d engine draws more quickly with less 3d objects in the scene. But it can't happen as much if that target frame rate is locked to some number. I hope that explained it better.
March 23, 2008 9:32:07 AM

randomizer said:
I don't have the limitations of the human eye. My vision transcends the fourth dimension. I always know where you are, even before you get there.


Startreck !!!!!!! :D 
You should join Nasa and all will be on jobless list :lol: 


yay:
By the way can you ask that airforce man what is the fps of movies ??
For your personal info in movies industry it is standard 25fps
March 23, 2008 9:56:00 AM

randomizer said:
Maybe you are a robot, but the human eye doesn't see in frames, and therefore doesn't have a limit. Any FPS player will tell you that at 25FPS you might as well try playing the game with your monitor off.


The human brain does have a limit to how many frames it can process per second visually. That's why when they first came out with film, they agreed on 24 frames per second which wasn't quite good enough. Then 30 was accepted. What the FPS players are getting confused over is that the internal game engine speed will naturally be higher on a computer that gets 60fps in comparison to one that gets 30 in the same benchmark.

Internal object movement in the game is also more fluid. (Unless the developer has locked certain aspects of game play to some rate) There are more points in between to see things when you are turning around too. If there are fps dips, your character spins better as well. However, when something is truly being displayed at an even, locked frame rate, 90 fps won't look any smoother or better than 30 or 40. In many games there are spikes and dips in the fps, so when a gamer says he's got 90 fps, he's over simplifying. Really he's got, 90, 22, 18, 107, 67, 23 and so on. This changes depending on the view angle, how many polygons are being rendered and so on. Just looking at the floor can raise the fps to over 100. Looking out at the distance and it may dip to 20. So a person with a better card and computer will have less problems, but it's not because their eyes are appreciating over 100 fps. When they go to benchmark, they may get an over all benchmark higher than someone else. It may say they are getting 120fps, while someone else gets 50. So their rig will play the game better if that particular game tends to have low dips in fps here and there. But that's only because the fast system did better on the slow to render parts and not because the fast system was getting a higher fps at those points. In a game where the scenery is fairly well balanced, the frame rate is consistent due to good game design, it will tend to draw more evenly and these factors tend to go away.
a c 99 U Graphics card
March 23, 2008 5:39:19 PM

Humans do for see in frames, they see in motion(simplified)....to simulate real motion games run many frames(50-60 and more) so your brain puts it together(there is no blurring, but games are starting to do it, but it makes me sick as it blurs in a un-natural looking way)....and yes its way more then 24 to be smooth.....TV and film have a blurring effect the mimics what the human eye does. this is why it looks great at ntsc 24film-30tv

As for games that run based on the frame rate(normally only done on games that have low motion. Its high motion that makes low frame rates look choppy)...fantasy star universe is like this, record it at 30fps(with the game set to high) and the game runs in a cool matrix like way.

Just to show the point about motion blur....when watching your brain puts it all together and its smooth as slink for you

Stargate SG 1(look at the golf balls) - copyright MGM


Batman Begins - copyright Warner Bros. Pictures


Spiderman 2 - copyright Columbia Pictures Corporation


March 23, 2008 7:54:19 PM

this thread became really big, to sum things up, ea suck and the leaked version of kanes wrath that i just finished does have a limit of 30 fps.
March 24, 2008 6:28:39 AM

Thanks nukemaster. While I agree with some of what you said, the point being made was that there is a diminishing return for how fluid a game looks when you get beyond 30fps. Then the point was made that fps of 100 and 120 are't really worth much visually, and that person is correct. I know because there was a point back in 97 when 3d textured games could barely break 15 fps. A game is playable at 8 fps, but is horrible. 12 is ok, but not smooth looking. You can see the graphics jumping. 15 is much better and the jumps are tiny. 18 fps and it becomes fluid looking except when objects are moving quickly. Again, around 30 it's fluid for most things. But this is the point you are making as well. You are saying it's based on the speed of the motion, which I agree. But the faster the frame rate is, the more rare it will be for an object will move fast enough to matter. Also beyond 30fps, even fast moving objects the brain perceives as continuous motion. There could be slight artifacts that if removed could help to make things look more solid beyond 30, but usually not. It depends on what's being shown too and the viewer, but this is getting to involved, lol. Also what you said about it being way more than 24. Re-read my post and you will see I never said 24 was good enough.

I'm just saying people should not worry about whether they are getting 80fps vs 100 unless they just want to know if their system is faster. Visually it's not a big deal. If I had a game getting 50 to 60fps, I wouldn't pay money to get a card to get 100fps just to SEE it. I personally can not see the difference between 30fps and 50 under most conditions. Fast moving objects will still look good at 30fps and maybe better at 50 (rarely, sometimes, but again probably not).. Again, if you get 100fps, great. But people shouldn't be upset for not getting 100fps. 30fps is enough. More might be better under some circumstances, but it's a point of diminishing returns. Nine times out of ten when someone is seeing jittering, it's an artifact of the game engine, and they are not experiencing the true frame rate they think they are.

I'd like to try to stop, because I'm inside someone elses thread, LOL. I don't want to feel like a hijacker even if my original post was meant for the OP.
a b U Graphics card
March 24, 2008 7:35:07 AM

I think 30 fps is inadequate simply because theres no guarantee itll hold at 30, even with vsync on, and thats why people prefer a higher fps, somewhat insuring them that the drops, lowest fps, will still be acceptable for gameplay
March 24, 2008 9:16:14 AM

and why do you need more than 30fps ? a normal human eye can see with 24 frames, few are who are able to see 25.
you have some kind of super-human-bionic-eyes ? :) 
March 24, 2008 12:46:27 PM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
I think 30 fps is inadequate simply because theres no guarantee itll hold at 30, even with vsync on, and thats why people prefer a higher fps, somewhat insuring them that the drops, lowest fps, will still be acceptable for gameplay

I tend to agree, but I would be perfectly happy with a constant 30 fps that NEVER dropped below that. As a matter of fact, I would prefer a constant 30 fps with a subtle motion blur effect over a constant 60 without the blur.

To me, object based motion blur is the most realistic and immersive effect in Crysis. It somehow tricks my brain into thinking "this is real." I'm sure I'd change my tune if I were prone to get motion sickness...
a b U Graphics card
March 24, 2008 9:34:32 PM

t85us said:
and why do you need more than 30fps ? a normal human eye can see with 24 frames, few are who are able to see 25.
you have some kind of super-human-bionic-eyes ? :) 

No, it's because I pwn at 100FPS+, pwn a little less at 60FPS, don't pwn alot at 30FPS and don't play below 30FPS.
a b U Graphics card
March 24, 2008 9:41:27 PM

Thats alot o pwnage heheh
a b U Graphics card
March 24, 2008 9:43:21 PM

Yeah, if you can't feel the difference playing a First Person Shooter at 25FPS vs 60FPS, there is something wrong with you and I'd appreciate it if you join the other team. :) 
March 24, 2008 10:18:03 PM

Anybody else fine the 25FPS limit in GTA:SA to make alot of events super choppy?
a c 99 U Graphics card
March 25, 2008 1:34:26 AM

felix2792 said:
Anybody else fine the 25FPS limit in GTA:SA to make alot of events super choppy?

YES....but 30 would have been not too bad(due to the low motion nature of the game) until you start to fly around. You can disable it in the advanced options...
!