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Advice needed on Toshiba

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Anonymous
July 17, 2005 9:38:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Hi All:

It seems the more research I do the more confused I get....

I started this quest wanting a big screen TV. Currently I am sold on
Toshiba units and am considering the Toshiba 52HM84 which I can buy
from DTVCityfor $1899 but I have a few questions...

#1 Is the LCD projection type better or this kind? Pricing seems
close enough to not be a factor but I don't understand the difference.

#2 How do these sets work with standard TV? I keep hearing that
standard programming can be unwatchable on HD sets which would not
work in our home. The set will spend half its time on a Scientific
Atlanta 8300HD cable box provided by BrightHouse in the Tampa area and
the other half on DVD movies. BrightHouse only offers about ten HD
channels.

#3 Anyone deal with DTVCity? They are offering a free two year
extended warranty and their pricing blows away all my local brick and
mortar places. I am a little nervous spending this much money on
something I can't touch before it arives.

Steve B.

More about : advice needed toshiba

Anonymous
July 17, 2005 9:38:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Depending where you are physically located and what local stations are
readily available may have a lot to do with the quality of the reproduced
pictures. Generally the RPTV-CRT Sets by Toshiba have done a respectable job
with quality inputs. LCD Projectors (RPTV) have their own nusiances but do a
nice job also. May want to check out the AV Forums ocassionally noted in
this forum. Generally, IMHO, give me the item to eveluate on site, at a walk
in retailer.
"Steve B." <none@none.com> wrote in message
news:D r4ld1ttli0dj1gliplsrj4em16jasff4n@4ax.com...
> Hi All:
>
> It seems the more research I do the more confused I get....
>
> I started this quest wanting a big screen TV. Currently I am sold on
> Toshiba units and am considering the Toshiba 52HM84 which I can buy
> from DTVCityfor $1899 but I have a few questions...
>
> #1 Is the LCD projection type better or this kind? Pricing seems
> close enough to not be a factor but I don't understand the difference.
>
> #2 How do these sets work with standard TV? I keep hearing that
> standard programming can be unwatchable on HD sets which would not
> work in our home. The set will spend half its time on a Scientific
> Atlanta 8300HD cable box provided by BrightHouse in the Tampa area and
> the other half on DVD movies. BrightHouse only offers about ten HD
> channels.
>
> #3 Anyone deal with DTVCity? They are offering a free two year
> extended warranty and their pricing blows away all my local brick and
> mortar places. I am a little nervous spending this much money on
> something I can't touch before it arives.
>
> Steve B.
Anonymous
July 18, 2005 2:15:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Steve B." <none@none.com> wrote

> #2 How do these sets work with standard TV? I keep hearing that
> standard programming can be unwatchable on HD sets which would not
> work in our home.

This is only said by TV snobs or the occasional troll who wants to step on
people's parades. The fact is that modern wide-screen TVs contain smoothing
software and hardware so they display a BETTER standard broadcast picture
than an old-style 4:3 TV of the same size. Note I say of the same size. If
you go from a old 30 inch set to a 60 inch set, you are still going to see
more imperfections simply because the picture is so much bigger than a 16:9
image on the smaller set (with the top and bottom bars). That apparently,
makes it unwatchable for some people. I wonder if they shouldn't get a life.
Related resources
Anonymous
July 18, 2005 2:23:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I have the toshiba 62hmx84, very nice picture, the lcd versus dlp is up to
each indiviual, I watched 1 hour of a dvd in 2 different stores on toshiba
dlp and sony lcd to determine my preference, as long as you have digital
cable you should have a very good picture, you will have to adjust to the
screen modes, wide, natural wide, etc, for the stretch modes, but you will
get used to it, in a couple of years the 4:3 sets will all be displaying
widescreen anyway, we hope. I have had friends over that have RPTV and they
are blown away by the picture quality.

"Dave Gower" <davegow.removethis@magma.ca> wrote in message
news:meSdnQPgwp5KjUbfRVn-2w@magma.ca...
>
> "Steve B." <none@none.com> wrote
>
>> #2 How do these sets work with standard TV? I keep hearing that
>> standard programming can be unwatchable on HD sets which would not
>> work in our home.
>
> This is only said by TV snobs or the occasional troll who wants to step on
> people's parades. The fact is that modern wide-screen TVs contain
> smoothing software and hardware so they display a BETTER standard
> broadcast picture than an old-style 4:3 TV of the same size. Note I say of
> the same size. If you go from a old 30 inch set to a 60 inch set, you are
> still going to see more imperfections simply because the picture is so
> much bigger than a 16:9 image on the smaller set (with the top and bottom
> bars). That apparently, makes it unwatchable for some people. I wonder if
> they shouldn't get a life.
>
Anonymous
July 18, 2005 12:39:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Dave Gower" <davegow.removethis@magma.ca> wrote in message
news:meSdnQPgwp5KjUbfRVn-2w@magma.ca...
>
> "Steve B." <none@none.com> wrote
>
>> #2 How do these sets work with standard TV? I keep hearing that
>> standard programming can be unwatchable on HD sets which would not
>> work in our home.
>
> This is only said by TV snobs or the occasional troll who wants to step on
> people's parades. The fact is that modern wide-screen TVs contain
> smoothing software and hardware so they display a BETTER standard
> broadcast picture than an old-style 4:3 TV of the same size. Note I say of
> the same size. If you go from a old 30 inch set to a 60 inch set, you are
> still going to see more imperfections simply because the picture is so
> much bigger than a 16:9 image on the smaller set (with the top and bottom
> bars). That apparently, makes it unwatchable for some people. I wonder if
> they shouldn't get a life.

This is simply bullshit. Many HDTVs do not look very good with NTSC
programming. The results will vary from set to set and with the quality of
the signal and the source of the signal. Few will look better than the best
pre-digital NTSC sets. I work on them every day and see many brands to make
comparisons. Very rarely will a digitized and upconverted NTSC signal look
as good as an analog displayed signal. IF the set has adequate analog
filtering before the D/A conversion, and IF the upconversion is handled
smoothly, you MAY get a signal that is not noisy and does not contain
artifacts. At best yo may have a relatively clean looking pix without
notiecable scan lines. At worst it can be unwatchable with a noisy source.

The fact that you don't notice a problem, or that you have not seen hundreds
of sets in operation in actual applications should not lead you to assume
that anyone who criticizes the analog source performance of HD sets is a
snob or needs a life. The fact is that lots of people are very unhappy with
the performance of their sets in this case. You are correct in the sense
that many sets are improving in this regard as more are using better analog
filtering (reducing the bandwidth of the output to the D/A conversion as
well). The end result for many, however, is quite uncomfortable to watch
with lousy source quality.

Leonard
Anonymous
July 18, 2005 2:05:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Leonard Caillouet" <lcaillonospam@devoynet.com> wrote

> This is simply bullshit.
Don't insult someone's honesty. Why should readers assume you are more
honest than anyone else (regardless of what you claim your profession to
be)?
July 18, 2005 4:28:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Our house has two tv's connected to the same Cable feed. One line goes to
the HD tv via a STB, another line goes to a standard tv directly.
Most of the time, non HD channels are clearer and have more natural color on
the standard tv. Some times they look better on the HD tv.
The SCI FI channel almost always looks better on the standard tv, especially
color rendition which looks monochromatic on the HD tv.
All HD material looks great on the HD tv. Local channel 10 and it's HD
channel 700 (in my area) look exactly the same for non HD content.
Simply the facts, make of it what you will.

"Dave Gower" <davegow.removethis@magma.ca> wrote in message
news:e9qdnUXSbuajKkbfRVn-vA@magma.ca...
>
> "Leonard Caillouet" <lcaillonospam@devoynet.com> wrote
>
>> This is simply bullshit.
> Don't insult someone's honesty. Why should readers assume you are more
> honest than anyone else (regardless of what you claim your profession to
> be)?
>
Anonymous
July 18, 2005 5:01:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Dave Gower" <davegow.removethis@magma.ca> wrote in message
news:e9qdnUXSbuajKkbfRVn-vA@magma.ca...
>
> "Leonard Caillouet" <lcaillonospam@devoynet.com> wrote
>
>> This is simply bullshit.
> Don't insult someone's honesty. Why should readers assume you are more
> honest than anyone else (regardless of what you claim your profession to
> be)?
I'm in the TV business also and the picture quality on older HD TV's (and
some newer HD TV's) displaying NTSC is in most cases terrible. Add to this
picture sources that have decompression artifacts (LD satellite) and you get
many dissatisfied customers.

The good news is that MOST new HD TV's display a NTSC picture with more
clarity and fidelity than a NTSC set. It's all in the video processing.
Anonymous
July 18, 2005 5:05:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"JAS" <spin500@cox.net> wrote in message
news:9NQCe.75630$%Z2.49944@lakeread08...
> Our house has two tv's connected to the same Cable feed. One line goes to
> the HD tv via a STB, another line goes to a standard tv directly.
> Most of the time, non HD channels are clearer and have more natural color
> on the standard tv.

Older HD equipment does a poorer job converting analog signals to digital,
but the original poster is doing market research on new sets. How old is
your set?
July 18, 2005 5:18:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Leonard Caillouet" <lcaillonospam@devoynet.com> wrote in
news:sqNCe.47194$up5.10998@lakeread02:

>
> "Dave Gower" <davegow.removethis@magma.ca> wrote in message
> news:meSdnQPgwp5KjUbfRVn-2w@magma.ca...
>>
>> "Steve B." <none@none.com> wrote
>>
>>> #2 How do these sets work with standard TV? I keep hearing that
>>> standard programming can be unwatchable on HD sets which would not
>>> work in our home.
>>
> I suggest you look at the mitu wd52327. This TV brings sd to near HD
level quality.
>
Anonymous
July 18, 2005 11:35:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"MOE" <mrmoe@nospamto.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9697403C6F267mrmoe@207.217.125.201...
> "Leonard Caillouet" <lcaillonospam@devoynet.com> wrote in
> news:sqNCe.47194$up5.10998@lakeread02:
>
>>
>> "Dave Gower" <davegow.removethis@magma.ca> wrote in message
>> news:meSdnQPgwp5KjUbfRVn-2w@magma.ca...
>>>
>>> "Steve B." <none@none.com> wrote
>>>
>>>> #2 How do these sets work with standard TV? I keep hearing that
>>>> standard programming can be unwatchable on HD sets which would not
>>>> work in our home.
>>>
>> I suggest you look at the mitu wd52327. This TV brings sd to near HD
> level quality.

I am quite familiar with the Mitsubishi sets. We sell more of them than
anything else. They do a good job relative to the competition with the
display of NTSC. It is not even close to HD and my old 65" Mitsubishi
analog set does a better job with noisy NTSC signals. A good quality signal
will look very good, but any noise or grain at all and I would choose to
watch the analog set. SD digital is another matter. While it is not even
close to HD, it can produce a very good pix.

Leonard
Anonymous
July 18, 2005 11:38:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Dave Gower" <davegow.removethis@magma.ca> wrote in message
news:e9qdnUXSbuajKkbfRVn-vA@magma.ca...
>
> "Leonard Caillouet" <lcaillonospam@devoynet.com> wrote
>
>> This is simply bullshit.
> Don't insult someone's honesty. Why should readers assume you are more
> honest than anyone else (regardless of what you claim your profession to
> be)?

I said nothing about the poster's honesty. I should have been more clear
and said that he was wrong. His post did impune the integrity of anyone who
disagreed with him however, so maybe bullshit was the better term after all.

Leonard
Anonymous
July 19, 2005 12:58:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Leonard Caillouet" <lcaillonospam@devoynet.com> wrote

>His post did impune the integrity of anyone who disagreed with him however

Sigh. Let me be more specific. First, the original poster was asking about a
new model HDTV (Tosh HM84) so that's what we are talking about. Since I
mistakenly assumed I was in a friendly environment I failed to protect
myself by clarifying this.

I have data for saying what I said. I remember last winter going into a
local specialty audio-visual store (Autotronics). I was the only customer
there, and so had the salesman and about 20 display sets (all on, displaying
the usual HD travelogue) to myself. We got talking about just this topic, SD
input. He threw a switch, and all 20 went to a regular local cable signal. I
recognized the program, so it was a live show, not canned.

I was really impressed. All 20 had a markedly better picture than the same
program would have produced on my 5-year old Trinitron over satellite (36
inch, top of the line in 2000). They ran all the way from cheapie table-top
CRT projectors to a monster $15k Sony 70 inch, and there wasn't one that
failed to measure up. Now, this is a high-end store that pays attention to
things like set adjustment and signal quality but it shows what can be done.

Someone who is in the repair business is inevitably going to see a lot of
older and maladjusted sets, but as I said those were not the context of the
thread.

This has normally been a reasonably civil NG so hopefully we can avoid
personal abuse in the future. And I hope for the sake of your business you
do not treat customers that way too often.
Anonymous
July 21, 2005 5:03:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 17:38:08 GMT, Steve B. <none@none.com> wrote:

>I started this quest wanting a big screen TV. Currently I am sold on
>Toshiba units and am considering the Toshiba 52HM84 which I can buy
>from DTVCityfor $1899 but I have a few questions...


Well I went back to order the Toshiba and it shows as discontinued
now... I thought this was a new model but guess I was wrong.

I am still so confused about this that I have no clue what to buy. I
am considering just going to Wally World and getting the RCA they have
for 1k. At least that way when it doesn't do what I thought it was
going to do i can say "well it was cheap..."

I really wanted something with HDMI input since my new cable box
supports that interface so I may move up a couple of hundred to get
that. Is it really worth it assuming I am going to buy a cheaper set
to start with? Am I missing some huge thing that the $2800 sets do
that the 1k sets won't do?

I'm a computer geek by trade and never understood how people could
make such a bige deal of buying something simple like a computer. Boy
has this TV thing taught me a thing or two!

Steve B.
July 21, 2005 5:03:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Steve B. wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 17:38:08 GMT, Steve B. <none@none.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I started this quest wanting a big screen TV. Currently I am sold on
>>Toshiba units and am considering the Toshiba 52HM84 which I can buy
>
>>from DTVCityfor $1899 but I have a few questions...
>
>
> Well I went back to order the Toshiba and it shows as discontinued
> now... I thought this was a new model but guess I was wrong.
>
> I am still so confused about this that I have no clue what to buy. I
> am considering just going to Wally World and getting the RCA they have
> for 1k. At least that way when it doesn't do what I thought it was
> going to do i can say "well it was cheap..."
>
> I really wanted something with HDMI input since my new cable box
> supports that interface so I may move up a couple of hundred to get
> that. Is it really worth it assuming I am going to buy a cheaper set
> to start with? Am I missing some huge thing that the $2800 sets do
> that the 1k sets won't do?
>
> I'm a computer geek by trade and never understood how people could
> make such a bige deal of buying something simple like a computer. Boy
> has this TV thing taught me a thing or two!
>
> Steve B.
1. Do not buy ANYTHING you haven't seen with your own eyes and which
has a picture you really,really like. Period. End of Story.
Everything else is bullshit.

2. If you don't believe that you "get what you pay for" you are in for
a world of hurt. But again, the only judgement that counts are YOUR
eyeballs. Not mine. Not anybody's on this list.
Anonymous
July 21, 2005 5:26:07 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Steve B. wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 17:38:08 GMT, Steve B. <none@none.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I started this quest wanting a big screen TV. Currently I am sold on
>>Toshiba units and am considering the Toshiba 52HM84 which I can buy
>
>>from DTVCityfor $1899 but I have a few questions...
>
>
> Well I went back to order the Toshiba and it shows as discontinued
> now... I thought this was a new model but guess I was wrong.
>
> I am still so confused about this that I have no clue what to buy. I
> am considering just going to Wally World and getting the RCA they have
> for 1k. At least that way when it doesn't do what I thought it was
> going to do i can say "well it was cheap..."
>
> I really wanted something with HDMI input since my new cable box
> supports that interface so I may move up a couple of hundred to get
> that. Is it really worth it assuming I am going to buy a cheaper set
> to start with? Am I missing some huge thing that the $2800 sets do
> that the 1k sets won't do?
>
> I'm a computer geek by trade and never understood how people could
> make such a bige deal of buying something simple like a computer. Boy
> has this TV thing taught me a thing or two!
>
> Steve B.

I would look at the Jvc hd ila set as well as the mitubit sets they a;;
are rated pretty high / I also would loon at www.onecall.com they ,may
have the set you want
Anonymous
July 21, 2005 5:33:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

SKI wrote:
> Steve B. wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 17:38:08 GMT, Steve B. <none@none.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I started this quest wanting a big screen TV. Currently I am sold on
>>> Toshiba units and am considering the Toshiba 52HM84 which I can buy
>>
>>
>>> from DTVCityfor $1899 but I have a few questions...
>>
>>
>>
>> Well I went back to order the Toshiba and it shows as discontinued
>> now... I thought this was a new model but guess I was wrong.
>>
>> I am still so confused about this that I have no clue what to buy. I
>> am considering just going to Wally World and getting the RCA they have
>> for 1k. At least that way when it doesn't do what I thought it was
>> going to do i can say "well it was cheap..."
>>
>> I really wanted something with HDMI input since my new cable box
>> supports that interface so I may move up a couple of hundred to get
>> that. Is it really worth it assuming I am going to buy a cheaper set
>> to start with? Am I missing some huge thing that the $2800 sets do
>> that the 1k sets won't do?
>>
>> I'm a computer geek by trade and never understood how people could
>> make such a bige deal of buying something simple like a computer. Boy
>> has this TV thing taught me a thing or two!
>> Steve B.
>
>
> I would look at the Jvc hd ila set as well as the mitu sets they are
> are rated pretty high. I also would look at www.onecall.com they may
> have the set you want
Anonymous
July 23, 2005 7:39:56 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 17:38:08 GMT, Steve B. <none@none.com> wrote:

>Hi All:
>
>It seems the more research I do the more confused I get....
>
Followup:
Thanx for the help from everyone. I ended up really liking the
Toshiba products but bought a little further down the food chain. I
bought the regular projection Toshiba 51HC85 from Best Buy. It was on
sale and came with a free Tivo. Supposed to pick it up tomorrow!

Thanx again for all the help I got from the group. Hopefully the
Toshiba and I will have many fattening hours together.

Steve B.
!