HTPC - Min Requirements

[Shez]

Hey guys,

So I've been itching to build a HTPC. Since things are on a budget and since I don't need extreme performance from my HTPC, I was hoping to snag a cheap complete computer off of Craigslist and then upgrade it into a HTPC.

However, having never built or messed around with an HTPC, I'm really fuzzy on what requirements I should be shooting for. Here's what I hope to do with the HTPC...

+Surf the internet
+Watch Movies online (via Netflix)
+Watch DVDs
+Plug into an HDTV

Bonuses would be...

+Watch TV through the computer
+Record TV
+Anything else that would rock

With those needs, what sort of system should I to be looking for? From the reading I've done on other people's HTPCs I know that the computer doesn't need to be a killer system. Also, what add-ons will I be needing?

Thank you guys!

 

[rwpritchett]

Here is my advice, take it or leave it:

CPU: For DVD's and watching TV, you don't need a lot of power, but I suggest you don't go with anything below 2.4GHz just to ensure that everything runs smooth. Since you are looking at older systems from craigslist, you're probably looking at Intel P4's and AMD s939 Athlons and as you probably know the s939's are the better choice of the two for temps and clock-per-clock performance. If you plan on doing any video encoding, look for a more powerful, dual-core CPU. If you can find a cheap C2D or AM2 system on craigslist, all the better.

MoBo: Just make sure it has PCI-e not AGP. That way if you decide to go blu-ray, you can get a cheaper PCI-e video card that supports UVD. If you plan on connecting to a DD/DTS receiver, look for optical or coaxial out onboard. Otherwise you will need to add a sound card or connect it via analog cables. Also, look for Mobo's with passive NB heatsinks (no fan).

TV Tuner: Look for tuners that pull in OTA HDTV, maybe even a dual tuner that does both HDTV and analog cable. Remember though, analog is being phased out in Feb 2009. I suggest going to www.hdtvtunerinfo.com to compare popular cards.

Case: A matter of preference, however I suggest you look for one that has a bundled remote and the ability to turn on the HTPC from S3 standby or from completely off using the remote. Look for cases that come with a segment of cable that goes between the PSU 24-pin connector and the motherboard connector for this functionality.

PSU: You don't need a lot of power, but I highly recommend a quiet and modular PSU for HTPC's (or go for an HTPC case with a bundled PSU). The 400W Enermax Liberty would make a fine HTPC PSU, for example.

HDD: Go to www.silentpcreview.com or www.storagereview.com and look for hard drives with quiet accoustics. Bigger the better. HDTV shows in 1080i take up about 8GB per hour. DVD's take up to 9GB per movie if you rip them to the hard drive, but you can compress them down to about 900MB using the right tools and codecs (DivX, Xvid, x264, etc).

VGA: Go for any HDCP compliant card that is quiet and uses low power. I've used both Nvidia and ATI/AMD and have had better results with the ATI/AMD personally. Plus, many of the HD2XXX and HD3XXX series radeons have available HDMI out with audio. If you don't intend to game, I suggest a $50 passively cooled ATI/AMD Radeon HD3450.

Keyboard/Mouse: Of course you want wireless, but try to avoid bluetooth. Even though BT gives you better range, it does not reconnect to the HTPC after S3 standby (S3 stanby is a must for scheduled recordings). IR wireless is for line of sight only, so I suggest you look for RF wireless options. If you want to surf the internet, make sure you have a scroll wheel. Some keyboards have built in touchpads or track balls which is nice, but they may not have scrolling capabilities.

RAM: Don't need anything fancy. But if you plan on using Vista Media Center for your front end, then 2GB is minimum. You won't need super low latency either.

When shopping around, keep in mind that the key to HTPC building is to keep it cool, keep it quiet, and make it look like it fits in your decor.

 

[Shez]

RWPritchett thanks for the awesome feedback. The specs you list definitely sound like a HT system I would love to build someday. Unfortunately, for my budget I think I'm going to have to go with something with less bang.

If I just wanted the ability to stream videos online, what requirements would you suggest? Having just checked out Netflix's requirements page they recommended 1.5GHz and 1GB of RAM. To get it to output to a HDTV though, I'd imagine that I'd need the HD3450 (or similar) card that Pritchett mentioned.

Any other ideas/suggestions? I'm way new to the HT world so any suggestions are very welcomed.

 

[rwpritchett]

What is your budget?
Also, what operating system do you plan to use? For ultra low budgets, it's hard to beat free linux coupled with MythTV. Someone put together a distribution that is geared entirely towards HTPC. Check it out: http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html

 

[obiwan05]

What kind of inputs are on your tv? hdmi or dvi?
I just through together a second htpc for the bedroom that will be hooked up to a crt and it works fine:

amd xp 1800+, 512mb ram, ati 9600 series agp card, 40gb hd, 802.11g wireless nic and a blue tooth wireless keyboard and mouse (rf would have been a better choice but I had this available).

It streams .vob, .ts, .mpg, etc from my unRAID nas without problems including hd avis and hd recorded content from satallite... I am not capturing any tv with it though so can't help you there....

ati 2600pro on my main htpc does a fine job of decoding HDDVD if you are looking for a cheap DVI based card....

 

[EXT64]

Personally I'd start from scratch. Here's the build I'm planning for my HTPC:

AMD Athlon X2 4850E, 2.5 GHz, Brisbane, 2x512kb, AM2, 65nm, 45W $90.00
Yet to be released, prices estimated

GIGABYTE GA-MA78GM-S2H AM2+/AM2 AMD 780G HDMI Micro ATX $99.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128090

Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD2500AAKS 250GB 16MB Cache SATA 3. $69.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136161

LITE-ON Black 20X DVD+R 2MB Cache SATA DVD Burner - Retail $29.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106057

NEC Black 1.44MB 3.5" Internal Floppy Drive Model FD1231H-302 $6.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16821152005

Corsair Dual Channel TWINX 2048MB PC6400 DDR2 800MHz (2 x 1024) $74.99
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2206874&Sku=C13-2022

TV Tuner

Ultra Black MicroFly Micro ATX Case with Ultra V-Series 400-Watt PSU $69.99
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2074672&Sku=ULT33116

The 780G integrated graphics is awesome for HTPCs and light gaming.

 

[Shez]

As luck would have it, I may have just found the complete system Craigslist deal that I was hoping for. Someone is selling a complete Dell Dimension 2400 system with everything that it came with for $50. The rig runs a...

Intel Celeron 2.4 GHz processor, 400Mhz FSB (100MHzx4)
Chipset: Intel 845GV chipset
Videocard: Integrated Intel Extreme graphics
Sound: Integrated Soundmax Sound
Memory: 256MB PC-2700 DDR memory (one module)
Networking: Integrated 10/100 PCI card
Hard Drive: Seagate Barracuda 40GB ATA/100 7200RPM hard drive
CDROM: Hitachi 48X CD-ROM drive

WindowsXP Home Edition

I've done some looking into how much I could upgrade the system and found that I could add a PCI video card with DVI/S-Video out (something like this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814145087), could easily add a lot more memory for cheap.

Assuming that I get the computer, do you guys think that with a few upgrades that the machine could handle hooking up to a 42' LCD (1920x1080) and being able to watch steaming movies from Netflix? Those are my two goals for this thing. With those goals in mind, could the the Dell be retrofitted to handle it?

 

[obiwan05]

I think you will have a hard time finding a PCI video card that will do 1920x1080. The Dimension 2400 only has 3 PCI expansion slots, no AGP or PCI-Express.

 

[Shez]

The card I linked can pull off 2048 x 1536 apparently. If you want a good laugh read the reviews, people put this card into the weirdest setups.

 

[rwpritchett]

I can give you some personal input on that Dell. My father-in-law has a similar system that I upgraded for him a couple years ago (Dell Dimension 2350). No AGP or PCI-e, max RAM is 512GB per slot (2 slots for 1GB total). I put in a PCI Radeon 9250 video card and maxxed out his RAM which helped it quite a bit, especially since the onboard video was stealing 64MB of his 256MB system RAM. He still uses it and it does play DVD's just fine, going to a 1280x1024 LCD. An HDTV running 1080i/p would be 1920x1080 rez. I also upgraded his 30G Seagate hard drive and I kept it as a spare part. I must say, it is the most silent hard drive I have ever heard (or not heard I guess). Completely inaudible. FYI, it only has a 250W power supply and it only has space for one hard drive unless you get a 5 1/4 to 3 1/2 bay adapter kit.

Are there any other computers for sale on craigslist that have a bit more you could salvage? Lack of an AGP or PCI-e slot is a real downer for the Dell. With the system you are looking at, you would need to get more RAM ($40), a DVD drive ($20-30), PCI vid card ($50-60), TV tuner ($60-100), and a bigger hard drive ($65+). You might want to find a system that has more salvagable parts. Maybe look at newegg's combo deals for AM2 athlons/semprons.

 

[Shez]

So I just checked through the Criagslist boards again, and there unfortunately aren't any other complete systems available anywhere near the price range.

Here's a question about the TV Tuner though. If I don't want/need to watch TV through the HTPC do I need the Tuner? And since I wouldn't be recording TV, would I really need the larger HDD? Budget is obviously a limiting factor here I'm hoping to keep the overall cost under $200. I would totally consider doing a budget homebuild, but I don't think I could throw one together for that price range. Could be dead wrong though.

My cost analysis would be: Dell System ($50), PCI vid card ($60), 1GB memory ($45) = $155

Also. I've been checking on the LCD inputs and I could get video and sound by 1) DVI->HDMI 2) Using the computer audio output to L/R input which works in conjunction with the HDMI input.

 

[rwpritchett]

How about eBay? Or are you looking for something local?

 

[derek85]

The FX5200 is definitely not going to cut it... the engine is way too weak for any decent HD presentation, it will drop frames like nuts.

The CPU is also too weak, albeit it's running at 2.4GHz, you know the GHz war is long over...

Try look into a 2nd hand S939 system, then buy a HD3450/3470 or if you really care about image quality, HD3650 for better memory bandwidth to support necessary HDHQV features.

For a new system, nothing beats a Phenom 9500 + 780G chipset + 2ch DDR2 800 memory, it will play anything you throw at it, and with decent HDHQV features enabled.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[derek85]

Oh... hmm so you are not going to play any HD content right?

But I would still suggest a better videocard than FX5200, they are very slow even by standard of that era...You should be able to find better PCI cards like a Radeon 9200? Like rwpritchett has suggested.

 

[Shez]

Yeah, I'm not planning on playing HD content. That'll come with a later build that I can fund properly

So you think with a better card, like the Radeon, that I'd be able to get the performance I'd like outta the computer?