Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

can someone tell me what the heck is wrong with my pc?

Last response: in CPUs
Share
April 17, 2008 11:30:32 PM

ok, let me start off by saying that this is my first post here and i have been visiting this site for a long time now and find the information invaluable. now with the formalities aside :D  lets get down to the problem...
(oh yea sry if this is the wrong section, i wanted to post in a section which gets a lot of hits :ange:  , besides my problem is too generalized to be in any one section anyway)

i got my pc upgrade in september 07, heres the config

E6750
2x 512MB kingston value ram 667mhz
Intel DG33BU (G33 micro atx mobo)
xfx 8600GT 256mb ddr3 (standard clocks)
Zebronics Platinum 500W PSU (for those about to check the tiers, its the last name on the last tier... :pfff:  )
APC 500VA UPS

i reused a maxtor 80gb sata hard drive from an old oem pc and monitor is a 17" crt.


now i know everyone will want to point out the PSU as the culprit of all problems, but just give it some thought first, coz im really confused right now regarding which components r good and which r bad....

i ran into my first problems immediately after getting the setup, the card was overheating(95C+ on load) and a few minutes into most games it would artifact and crash, forcing a hard reboot. So naturally i thought it was a faulty GPU and sent it back to the shop for checking.
however as it turns out the people in the shop are a bunch of incompetent ****heads :pfff:  who dont seem to know anything about the latest hardware, when i gave them the card they kept it for almost a month and then returned it saying that they tested it and it worked ok except for "overheating on some games"(whatever the hell that means) and it wasnt until i asked for my money back that they actually sent it to the company and after a long 3 month ordeal i finally got a replacement from xfx.

ahh... if only it was as simple as that... turns out even the new replacement was faulty, however not to the same extent as the 1st.
the new card overheats (105-108C load :ouch:  ) but it doesnt aftifact or crash in games. my exams were around the corner so i didnt go back to them (also because i felt a strong urge to bash their heads in). so i'm almost done with my exams now and was thinking of sending the card in again when my pc started acting up again.

every now and then (twice now) when i boot my pc the bios detects that the time and date are not set. i know this seems to be a problem with the cmos battery, but then could it get bad so fast and would replacing it myself void my warranty? also could the psu be responsible for the battery going bad and if so could that be the cause of the gpu overheating as well?

another thing is that my UPS also makes an annoying shrill constant beep sometimes randomly, which seems to go away when i turn off the monitor. could it be that the 500VA UPS is not being able to supply adequate power to the system hence causing problems which appear to be with the psu?

i know this is a lot and i ask you to bear with me, i couldnt really summarize it better in my current state (its almost 5am and i have an exam tomorrow...).

sry if its too many questions but i had to tell u everything because like i said the guys at the shop dont really test anything for themselves so even if i did give them the psu they would probably keep it for a month and then return it saying it is fine :fou:  ... thats why i need to be sure that the part i give them is bad.


also i dont live in the US, so i only have a 1yr warranty on the card and to buy an antec PSU i'd probably have to sell a few organs... so lets try fixing the problem without actually buying new components.

anyway id better go get some sleep... :sleep: 
sry again for the long post, i'll try to add some cliff notes tomorrow ;) 
thanks in advance :bounce: 

More about : heck wrong

April 18, 2008 12:28:15 AM

I had issues with running my APC 650VA BackUPS and a 17" CRT screen.
Infact it almost made me RMA my long standing Revoltec PSU. Then I ran it just ONCE (while moving my computer to a new room) without the CRT screen powered by the UPS. EVERYTHING WORKED PERFECTLY! No boot issues, disk spin-up trouble, CMOS checksum mismatches. Even my USB 2.5" disk started working normally without rebooting or locking up my computer.
I had to reset CMOS a dozen or so times.

A 17" CRT consumes around 70-120W, so it could be the reason you have RTC and battery issues. Try testing without the screen on the UPS.

As for the 8600GT:
Is it a model with a fan?
Is the fan spinning normally?
How many other fans are in your system?
What are the idle temperatures?
My previous 8600GT from GIGABYTE has passive cooling, is overclocked and never reached 80°C / idled below 55°C.

What are your CPU temperatures?

Maybe the overheating part is due to a lack of airflow or pockets of heat inside your case. Can't cool anything with hot air trapped in a case.
April 18, 2008 2:04:20 AM

Andrius said:
I had issues with running my APC 650VA BackUPS and a 17" CRT screen.
Infact it almost made me RMA my long standing Revoltec PSU. Then I ran it just ONCE (while moving my computer to a new room) without the CRT screen powered by the UPS. EVERYTHING WORKED PERFECTLY! No boot issues, disk spin-up trouble, CMOS checksum mismatches. Even my USB 2.5" disk started working normally without rebooting or locking up my computer.
I had to reset CMOS a dozen or so times.

A 17" CRT consumes around 70-120W, so it could be the reason you have RTC and battery issues. Try testing without the screen on the UPS.

As for the 8600GT:
Is it a model with a fan?
Is the fan spinning normally?
How many other fans are in your system?
What are the idle temperatures?
My previous 8600GT from GIGABYTE has passive cooling, is overclocked and never reached 80°C / idled below 55°C.

What are your CPU temperatures?

Maybe the overheating part is due to a lack of airflow or pockets of heat inside your case. Can't cool anything with hot air trapped in a case.


thanks for the quick reply.
so ive plugged my monitor into the wall outlet as uve said, but the problem is i cant check if its fixing anything coz the time and date reset problem has happened only twice recently and with a weeks interval. Also the fact that my monitor wont be backed up kinda negates the use of having a UPS at all... anyway i'll try that for a while and see how it goes.

as for the GPU, its the standard xfx 8600GT with fan

http://www.xfxforce.com/web/product/listConfigurations....;jsessionid=aYpJlLQD65agQxKnFL?series=GeForce%26trade%3B+8600&seriesId=1054321&productId=1054324#PV-T84J-UAL3
(its the last one on the list)

and im using riva tuner to change the fan speed. i did notice that rivatuner seemed to change the speeds automatically after every 5 degree change in temp over the limits i set but i got around that by setting new profiles for every 5 degrees rise in temp (painstaking but works). so basically as soon as the temp touches 70C my fans hit 100% at 75C it drops to 80% for a second or 2 but jumps right back up to 100% when it hits 76C and so on.

As for my cabinet its an old POS with no fan whatsoever, so im totally dependent on the 120mm psu fan for cooling.
however this does not affect the load temps ive mentioned because those are done with the side of my case open and a table fan blowing air in. i dont really have the guts to play games without doing that first knowing the kinda temps this thing reaches. My idling temps with case closed are about 64-65C, open case is about 61-62C. load temps with case open are about 100-108C (depending on how stressful the game is).

cpu temps seem normal, idle about 32-35C, load 52-55C. its summer here so ambient temps r pretty high even though i try to run the a.c. most of the time.
Related resources
a b à CPUs
April 18, 2008 3:01:05 AM

You have got to get those temps under control some how. 108*C is 226.4*F, thats past the point of boiling and would basically render any cpu/vpu useless.

Airflow seems to be one of your obvious issues. Are there any other areas in your case that would allow you to mount more fans for cooling? This has to be done somehow, you cant go on using your equipment at those temps. It will shut down one day and not be useable again. My 8800GTX card maxes around 150*F you are 76*F higher!!!

Get your airflow fixed first and foremost.

It would be good if you can go to that shop and have them to check to see if the voltages are stable. They should have a tester. This doesnt take 1 month to do, they can do it within 10 minutes and can let you know something immediately.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but your power supply is a major issue. You need to see if they have anything else in their shop they can replace that psu with for a very low or free cost.

http://www.techenclave.com/pc-peripherals/12v-current-r...

If you can get a few bucks together to buy a new psu then this is what I recommend. You can get this very good quality psu if you can scrounge a few bucks to do so:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

This is one of the cheaper high quality psu's that will do very well with your setup. Get this and I think your problems are solved.

You cant cross the ocean in a rowboat, you need to take a cruiseliner.

Unfortunately theres no way around your problem...



a b à CPUs
April 18, 2008 3:40:18 AM

(1) Ref losing time & Date. Yes normally caused by low CMOS Battery.
This is not a problem of PSU, unless your CMOS battery is a rechargable one. The vast majority of CMOS batteries are the watch battery type Not rechargable.. They normally last 3 to 5 years - The problem is you never know how long it has been sitting on a shelf. And replacing it should not void warrenty.

(2) GPU temps - I think you have already found the cause - poor air circulation - NEED to remidy, If nothing else remove side panel and direct a fan.

(3) Down load coretemp, or speed fan and verify your voltages for CPU, Under load you may fine core 1 & 2 are runing on the Warm side.

(4) On Ups, If UPS is to small for your current setup Then you need to get a larger one. However, as long as you can "HOT" key shutdown (ie winXP hit "Win Key then U key twice), you due not have to have the monitor on to shut down. Remember and ups should on be used on battery power long enough to provide an orderly shut down.
April 18, 2008 4:35:24 AM

i reused a maxtor 80gb sata hard drive from an old oem pc and monitor is a 17"

did you wipe the drive good?

you have a problem with the gpu at 95c you will have issues

fix one problem at a time

----------first the ups has nothing to do with the pc

its a battery, a voltage conversion circuit and a surge protection

disconnet it and solve one issue at a time
----------
get your gpu working right



1gb ram is low with vista - do you use vista?
April 18, 2008 4:38:29 AM

ron123 said:
thanks for the quick reply.
so ive plugged my monitor into the wall outlet as uve said, but the problem is i cant check if its fixing anything coz the time and date reset problem has happened only twice recently and with a weeks interval. Also the fact that my monitor wont be backed up kinda negates the use of having a UPS at all... anyway i'll try that for a while and see how it goes.

as for the GPU, its the standard xfx 8600GT with fan

http://www.xfxforce.com/web/product/listConfigurations....;jsessionid=aYpJlLQD65agQxKnFL?series=GeForce%26trade%3B+8600&seriesId=1054321&productId=1054324#PV-T84J-UAL3
(its the last one on the list)

and im using riva tuner to change the fan speed. i did notice that rivatuner seemed to change the speeds automatically after every 5 degree change in temp over the limits i set but i got around that by setting new profiles for every 5 degrees rise in temp (painstaking but works). so basically as soon as the temp touches 70C my fans hit 100% at 75C it drops to 80% for a second or 2 but jumps right back up to 100% when it hits 76C and so on.

As for my cabinet its an old POS with no fan whatsoever, so im totally dependent on the 120mm psu fan for cooling.
however this does not affect the load temps ive mentioned because those are done with the side of my case open and a table fan blowing air in. i dont really have the guts to play games without doing that first knowing the kinda temps this thing reaches. My idling temps with case closed are about 64-65C, open case is about 61-62C. load temps with case open are about 100-108C (depending on how stressful the game is).

cpu temps seem normal, idle about 32-35C, load 52-55C. its summer here so ambient temps r pretty high even though i try to run the a.c. most of the time.


ok your just upgrade the pc and it does not work but your using riv tuner?




you should start with a clean hard drive, if you reused the old os then wipe it if your having issues

get the pc working before you ad things like riv tuner
a b à CPUs
April 18, 2008 5:15:28 AM

You have multiple issues as listed above.

1. Get your air circulation issue fixed
2. Get the PSU checked. I recommend upgrading the PSU to the one I suggested in my last post.
3. Change the CMOS battery. They are 3-5 bucks and your local dummies at the pc shop should be able to provide one for you.

The UPS simply filters the power to make sure its stable and clean going into your PSU. The battery side gives you extra power when you have loss of power so you can save your work and safely shut down. Nothing more and nothing less. If it cant support your system adequately then it will only shut down prematurely due to loss of battery power. As long as the power is on at your home, your UPS will stay powered.

If you cant afford to fix these issues I suggest you shut down your system and wait until you can because you will simply destroy the hardware you have now by allowing it to run at those temps. Hopefully you havent already damaged anything...
a b à CPUs
April 18, 2008 7:28:38 AM

ron123 said:
Also the fact that my monitor wont be backed up kinda negates the use of having a UPS at all...


I'd rather have a monitor off the UPS and have the battery last twice as long. the chances of a power fluctuation or outage breaking the monitor is slim to nothing, whereas a power outage is much more likely to lose some data loss.

For cooling, I would suggest removing or cutting back some of the PCI blanking plates and popping a fan directly below the GPU, blowing across it and into the case would probably be more beneficial.
April 18, 2008 7:59:05 AM

Quote:
another thing is that my UPS also makes an annoying shrill constant beep sometimes randomly, which seems to go away when i turn off the monitor. could it be that the 500VA UPS is not being able to supply adequate power to the system hence causing problems which appear to be with the psu

There are 2 reasons a UPS goes into alarm. Loss of voltage in is one, undervoltage out is the other. How old is this unit? Who made it?
If it's older than 5 years, the batteries are end of lifing, so toss it.
You could have that local shop check the ups, but your best bet is just see if your problems go away when you take it out of the loop. Check your gfx temps with the ups and without.

How a ups works.
The incoming voltage is rectified and feeds the batteries. The batteries feed an inverter, which makes a squarewave AC. This feeds the outlets.
It's too easy for one of these to only output 90v under load.
April 18, 2008 8:21:59 AM

Air circulation is definitly your core problem. Also with a 500 watter in that system your probably pushing the limit right there as it is. By not cooling the system well the fans have to kick up higher to cool it and this can be drawing too much power and causing some problems. And the above were correct in that unless you have a faulty motherboard your cmos battery is most likely either faulty or dead and you should replace it.
April 18, 2008 9:51:17 AM

I'd recommend getting some fans in that case. If you can add some fine, if not, get a new case.

As for the UPS, have you considered one that has two sides, with battery backup on one side and simple surge suppressor on the other? I use a BELKIN Office F6C550-AVR 550VA 330W for the PC in my sig, and I'm still stuck with a 17" CRT, and it works fine, though I should have something a bit larger.

Here's the page at Newegg for some background:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Edited to add: the http://extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine calculates 410 watts for my system, so I'll get a higher end Belkin next month with the rebate check. I got this before I upgraded to the 3870x2. The one time we did have a few second brown out, I was playing LOTR Online and it stayed on without a hitch. Maybe I was lucky.

Something along the line of a UPS like this should work with an 8600 without a hitch, what brand and wattage UPS do you have right now? Calculate what you need with the PSU calculator and let us know.

Only got beeps when my wife decided to plug a big vacuum cleaner into the UPS side when I wasn't home. My PC wasn't on then either, but once I got back, it was okay. So far, the monitor's fine plugged into the backup side, with the PC and only the speakers on the surge suppressor side.

You will kill any card that overheats in games after awhile. Then, you'll get artifacts whenever you try to do anything 3D. Next time, try to save up for the lowest priced dual slot card you can afford. If you don't have good cooling, expelling air into the case is not good, and it's worse if your card's fanless.

Right now, just work on the add fans, or get a new case with enough fans principle. That's the cheapest solution, but consider an LCD in the future, as well as a dual slotted GPU upgrade. Your PSU is last tier but not all of them are lemons, they just have higher failure rates than better branded PSU's.
April 18, 2008 10:03:01 AM

Well. My monitor hooked up to the UPS was the cause of all kinds of trouble. Random reboots, CMOS checksum mismatches, reboots after pluging in usb devices.
It was an APC 650VA BackUPS model and according to specs it was 400W.
Enough to power both my PC and CRT at the time (I double checked).

I've figured out in the end that whenever the CRT screen was connected to the UPS unit everything I plugged or unplugged from the computer rebooted it causing CMOS checksum errors. The PSU has been working fine for almost 3 years after, that old PC is still stable as a rock now that I have an LCD screen (powered by the UPS).

I'm not saying that the UPS unit is to blame. In my case it was the CRT screen. The UPS and PSU work fine together now that the screen is out of the equation. Whatever it was the screen+UPS made everything else work like gremlins took over.

Overheating GPU ... add an intake fan in front/on the side and an exhaust fan on the top of the case to extract heat.
If you have to drill/cut holes to save money don't be affraid to do so. Just use masking tape. And vacuum out the empty case before reinstalling the hardware. Metal shavings are the death of computer components.
April 18, 2008 12:02:54 PM

again, thanks for the plethora of replies, much appreciated :bounce: 

ok im gonna try to reply to all the questions here in a point wise form, here goes...

1) Air flow is not the issue causing the high load temps on the gpu coz i always open up the case and direct a fan in before doing anything graphics intensive. although it may be causing slightly higher cpu temps coz i dont generally open the case unless gaming.

2) you really cannot imagine the extent of incompetence of the people in this shop :pt1cable:  , last time i gave them the card they called me back the next day saying they could not test it as they had only CRT monitors and they didnt have a DVI to VGA converter... :heink:  (needless to say im never buying anything from them again)
so i doubt that they will have something to check voltages but still i will try.

3) The UPS is a standard APC 500VA one which i bought in september 07, and after reading ur posts ive plugged my monitor into the wall outlet, will w8 and see if the date and time get reset again.

4) the 80gb drive is fully formatted and i only installed riva tuner when i saw the card temps in nvidia monitor and also coz ntune fan control never worked for me. (always changed to 30-50% even with 90C+ temps).

5) the only voltage reading on core temp shows 1.35 if that means anything to u guys. oh yea and that power supply calculator showed 242W with 25% capacitor ageing set.


k i think thats everything, sry if i missed something.

also wanted to say, if the problem is primarily air flow and the psu not being able to handle the GPU power requirements then i dont think it matters that much coz in a few months i'll be off to college and will be taking the CPU and GPU with me (will pop a E2140 in here and run on integrated). my parents dont really need much horsepower to check mail and play solitaire :lol: 

strange thing is none of u guys seem to suspect a bad card here, which is good coz i would much prefer to change the psu than the card... still can gpu overheating be due to a faulty card as well? is it possible that more than one of my component are dying on me here?
also i'll be changing the cmos battery too, hopefully its not the mobo thats dying too (which makes me wonder, as i remember reading somewhere that if the PCI E contoller on the mobo is shorting out or something then that can cause gpu overheating too... :??:  )

anyhow, thanks again for the help :)  and again sry for my lengthy posts :bounce:  :bounce:  :bounce:  (yea i like that smiley)
a b à CPUs
April 18, 2008 2:58:38 PM

Well, after having your system get as hot as it has gotten anything could be wrong at this point. It would be nice if you had a friend that would let you test your video card in his/her system after you have tried everything else.

Honestly, its sometimes hard to guess whats going on thru a forum without being able to get your hands on the hardware to test it. For me, I have 4 systems and I could check something in another pc to test with if necessary. I also have tools to check for regulated voltages.

It sounds like if you dont get this issue fixed it will fix itself when you go to college. Are you installing these components in another system when you get to college?
April 18, 2008 4:49:25 PM

The card is most likely damaged/faulty if it goes to 100°C or more.
As I said my 8600GT was overclocked and never got above 75°C.
It could also be a poorly mounted heatsink, but that's almost silly since you've already sent it in for repairs once.

That shop you're refering to sounds like a shop we had here while I was in highschool (486-P2 days). A friend of mine went there and asked the saleslady to check if she has 2 pin RAM. Took here 15 or so minutes to come back out from the storage area and say she's sorry but she doesn't have any but she could order them.

http://www.cpuid.com/hwmonitor.php
This monitors several voltages and also shows temperatures for hardware (quite useful).
April 18, 2008 5:11:14 PM

man i hate to say it, but here another great example why (at least in this price bracket) you either leaqrn to build it your self or buy it from dell. (or HP) there system arnt great but they dont tend to get error like that.

im not to famillier with the 8600 having either built system no less than 8800 or no more than 7600, but there inst buy any chance a port on the card (internal) which would connect to a PSU? i mean i dout it but you never know. also is there a 4 pin (female) molex plug on the motherboard? often there is for extra power to cards and the like.

also while im hear if you EVER EVER EVER built/buy a PC make sure you get a good case and a Good BRANDED PSU.

IDK why your so caught up on using a UPS for a desktop PC? at least ion the UK we rarely get surges occasionally flutuations but nothing damaging.
April 18, 2008 5:40:16 PM

dobby said:
man i hate to say it, but here another great example why (at least in this price bracket) you either leaqrn to build it your self or buy it from dell. (or HP) there system arnt great but they dont tend to get error like that.

im not to famillier with the 8600 having either built system no less than 8800 or no more than 7600, but there inst buy any chance a port on the card (internal) which would connect to a PSU? i mean i dout it but you never know. also is there a 4 pin (female) molex plug on the motherboard? often there is for extra power to cards and the like.

also while im hear if you EVER EVER EVER built/buy a PC make sure you get a good case and a Good BRANDED PSU.

IDK why your so caught up on using a UPS for a desktop PC? at least ion the UK we rarely get surges occasionally flutuations but nothing damaging.


UPS on a desktop PC.
1. Because of faulty/stupid house wiring. (My mom used to overload my room/the entire floor twice a day with the tumbledryer.)
2. Surge protection. Lightning never strikes in the same place twice, unless you have a new 1000EUR PC.
3. Less chance of data corruption during important work. (Ever lost a university paper due to a power outage? NOT FUN!)
4. It's cheap enough to own one today and not worry (I got mine for 125EUR 3 years ago) about all of the above.
5. It gives you more geek points than a 9800GX2 for 1/5 the price!

EDIT: Forgot a good one. Flashing BIOS on old boards was a risk without an UPS.
April 19, 2008 10:55:49 AM

ron123 said:
strange thing is none of u guys seem to suspect a bad card here, which is good coz i would much prefer to change the psu than the card... still can gpu overheating be due to a faulty card as well? is it possible that more than one of my component are dying on me here?


The only time I got a bad card, it had artifacts and issues from the beginning. It was also an open box return, so it might have died in someone else's PC the same way your's did, due to overheating.

I think you're card died (at least for 3D purposes) in your case. Whether that's due to a low end PSU or poor airflow (did you originally run it open with a fan, or do that as a stopgap measure later?).

dobby said:
IDK why your so caught up on using a UPS for a desktop PC? at least ion the UK we rarely get surges occasionally flutuations but nothing damaging.


Well, in my case, we live in Texas in a townhouse built in 1970. The outlets might have been upgraded, but we get lots of brownouts that last a few seconds to minutes due to thunderstorms.

At least I can log out of LOTR Online, my wife can save her graphics work and my son can save his school work. The UPS is a failsafe measure worth the cost over a regular surge suppressor. All of our PC's have the same model. Once I get a better one for my gaming system, I'll use the old one for the TV, DVD player and game systems.

I just don't want any more vacuum cleaners plugged into one. LOL.
!