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I5 Patch notes

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Anonymous
July 15, 2005 6:44:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

Whew. And I thought I4 had a lot of nerfs.

Issue 5: Forest of Dread

New Zone: Croatoa Croatoa is a 3 hour train ride up state from Paragon City,
and was the favorite lakeside vacation spot for city dwellers. For the past 3
years, the train service has been closed due to the Rikti Invasion, but recent
happenings have gotten the government to open it back up.

* To get to Croatoa, heroes can take the Green Line. Locals are asking for
* heroes of security levels 25 to 34 to investigate recent strange goings
* on.


New Powers

* Sonic Blast (Blaster Primary and Defender Secondary) Sonic Debuff
* (Defender Primary and Controller Secondary) Archery (Blaster Primary and
* Defender Secondary) Trick Arrow (Defender Primary and Controller
* Secondary) Electric Mastery (Blaster Ancillary Power Set)


Mission Customization

* Many existing missions have been updated with hostage escorts, friendly
* heroes who fight by your side, villain wave attacks and more.


Updated Zone: The Shadow Shard

* Shadow Shard Maps show the location of each Jump Pad. A dotted line
* connects the Jump Pad with its end point. A teleporter on Firebase Zulu
* takes players to any of the other three zones in the Shadow Shard (works
* both ways). Dr. Scott Wachhorst, a prominent xenobiologist and Portal
* Corp. leader, willingly purchases Enhancements from players in Firebase
* Zulu. A renegade Brute, Kallarn, purchases Enhancements with the hope
* that he might gain enough power to overthrow Ruladak. It can be found in
* the Cascades. Slarrah, a Wisp who has been converted by Faathim the Kind
* relieves players of excess Enhancements in the Chantry. Nameless Mystic.
* An interdimensional mystic feeds off the energy kicked off by the dreaded
* Lanaru. He happily accepts Enhancements. Found lurking near the Storm
* Palace.


Updated Zone: Rikti Crash Site

* The military controls a teleporter in Peregrine Island that connects to
* one in the entrance of the Rikti Crash Site. Heroes can go back and forth
* from this point. Col. Barry Woodhouse works for Military Intelligence,
* gathering info on the Rikti activities. Players can sell excess
* Enhancements to him.


Updated Zone: Outbreak

* The tutorial has been modified.


New Badges

* In addition to new badges associated with Croatoa, many new Achievement
* badges have been added for those who have exceeded the existing ones.


Experience System Changes

* No experience debt until level 10. Half experience debt in missions.
* Experience awards for defeating enemies level 25+ increased.


New Zone Events

* Steel Canyon: The Hellions are living up to their name and have taken to
* arson. Skyway City: The Trolls start a Rave (Troll-style) when they find
* a new supply of Superadine.


Powers - General

* Blasters have a new Inherent ability called Defiance. As a Blaster
* reaches the end of his health, he starts to dramatically increase his
* damage.
Makes the Blaster into a more comic-booky Archetype to play. As he begins
to lose a battle, his power increases dramatically, giving him the edge
he needs to defeat powerful foes.
* Blaster hit points increased.
Overall increase in the survivability of Blasters.
* Blaster damage cap increased.
Overall increase in the damage output (and thus survivability) of
Blasters. Blasters may need Buffs from other Archetypes in order to
reach the new caps.
* Scrapper damage increased for all powers.
Our goal is to increase the overall 'Scrappery' nature of Scrappers,
making them melee combat masters, but not having Tanker-level defense.
This change counters some of the general reduction in defense that
Scrappers are seeing with this patch.
* Controllers will do double damage to a target (non pvp) that is
* Immobilized, Disoriented, Slept or Held.
Increasing the non-Pet damage potential of all Controllers. This change
is intended to give them a more balanced and even game-play experience
throughout all of their levels.
* Controller AoE Holds, Disorients and Sleeps (and a few others like
* Quicksand and Ice Slick) recharge times have been doubled and duration
* cut in half. AoE Immobilize and Phase Shift powers were not affected.
* Volcanic Gasses duration was not affected.
Game balance change due to the new increased damage of Controllers.
* Controller Pets (and Defender/Dark Miasma/Dark Servant) can no longer
* stack. That is, casting these summon powers before your pet has expired
* will remove the old pets and spawn new ones.
Illusion Control/Phantasm can still summon multiple decoys. Fire
Control/Fire Imps now always summons 3 Imps at your level. Illusion
Control/Phantom Army now always summons 3 Decoys. Pet powers were never
intended to have multiple instances out at once. Due to the change in the
power, we removed the randomness in the number of pets you get with Fire
Imps and Phantom Army.
* Set a maximum number of targets that can be affected by most offensive
* powers:
AoE Debuffs, Ranged cones, and Melee AoE (PBAoE) are set to 10. Some
Large PBAoE (like Nova) are set to 16. Melee Cones are set to 5.
Ranged AoE damage powers are set to 16. Taunts (including Tanker
inherent Taunt - 'PunchVoke') is set to 5. Buffs are unaffected.
This will limit the amount of 'herding' done by players to a more
reasonable and realistic level.
* Slightly reduced the non-enhanceable health regeneration buff of
* Regeneration/Integration.
The health regeneration component was slightly too high when combined
with the other effects of the power.
* Changed Regeneration/Instant Healing from a Toggle Power to a Click
* power. Gave it a new animation so it activates faster.
With almost unlimited Health Regeneration, this power was always intended
to be used sparingly. The high Endurance cost was intended to accomplish
this, but in the end, only lead to frustrations of running out of
Endurance. As a click with a long recharge, its Endurance cost can
remain low, and its Regeneration boost can stay high.
* Fixed Ice Armor/Energy Absorption so it no longer grants less Endurance
* and Slow protection if used against a higher level foe.
This is a bug fix. When used against a higher level foe, your buff was
lower than normal. Your Endurance Buff and Slow protection will now
always be the same, regardless of what foe you use this power on.
* Increased Super Reflexes/Evasion Defense buff.
This will help Super Reflexes Scrappers against foes that tend to use AoE
powers, like Bosses (who typically have a higher accuracy than minions).
* Reduced Dark Armor/Cloak of Fear.s Accuracy Debuff.
With the previous changes to Fear effects, Cloak of Fear's Accuracy
Debuff was too powerful.
* Increased the recharge time and decreased the duration of
* Pool/Presence/Intimidate. It only affects Lieutenants on a Critical.
Originally, the recharge and duration of this power were balanced against
the old Fear effect (run away). Fear is now more of a control power and
much more effective (targets are essentially Held). As such the old
recharge time and duration were too powerful.
* Reduced Duration on Dark Miasma/Fearsome Stare. Increased its recharge
* time.
Originally, the recharge and duration of this power were balanced against
the old Fear effect (run away). Fear is now more of a control power and
much more effective (targets are essentially Held). As such the old
recharge time and duration were too powerful.
* Reduced Duration on Dark Miasma/Petrifying Gaze and increased its
* recharge time. (Dark Servant version as well.)
This power was stronger than most Controller Hold powers, and thus too
powerful for a Defender power.
* Added an f/x to Regeneration/Moment of Glory when it expires to indicate
* your Regeneration is debuffed (this is a visual f/x change only).
Quality of Life feature.
* Added an f/x to Elude when it expires to indicate your Recovery is
* debuffed (this is a visual f/x change only).
Quality of Life feature.
* Fixed missing sticky f/x for Radiation Blast/Cosmic Burst Defense Debuff
* (visual f/x only, no power change).
Quality of Life feature.
* Controller/Gravity Control/Lift now does extra damage in PvP.
Bug Fix.
* Fixed Ice Blast/Frost Breath damage in PvP (it was set too low).
Bug Fix.
* Removed Debuff Defense Enhancements from Spines/Impale (this powers does
* not debuff Defense, so Debuff Defense Enhancements were not doing
* anything).
Bug Fix.
* Removed Range Enhancements from Spines/Spine Burst (this powers is a
* PBAoE and has no 'range' to increase, so Range Enhancements were not
* doing anything).
Bug Fix.
* Fixed Warshade Stygian Circle so it no longer gives you less Endurance
* when you drain and enemy that is higher level than you. Also, it no
* longer accepts Accuracy Enhancements (they were unnecessary because
* Stygian Circle is an auto-hit power).
Bug Fix.
* Marked Quicksand summonable to not show duplicate icon in the buff tray.
Bug Fix.
* Fixed excessive long immobilization effect when casting or getting hit by
* Transfusion, Transference, Twilight Grasp, and Howling Twilight.
Bug fix.
* Updated Energy Blast/Power Burst help (text only, no power changes).
More accurately describes the power.
* Some Combat system chat message fixes for Spines powers (text only, no
* power changes).
More accurately describes what.s going on.


Powers - Global Defense Decrease In order to facilitate a more balanced game
for the higher level characters (Level 25 and up), the defensive abilities of
several powersets has been adjusted so that they are more in line with one
another. Lieutenant, Boss, and Elite Boss villains have had their To Hit values
reduced accordingly to work with these defensive changes.

* Reduced all Archetypes. base ability with Damage Resistance and Defense
* powers. Reduced Defense rating of Force Field powers (Deflection Shield,
* Insulation Shield and Dispersion Bubble). Reduced Defense bonus from
* Pool/Concealment/Stealth. Defense bonus suppresses if you attack.
* Reduced Defense bonus from Pool/Flight/Hover (and Kheldian Combat
* Flight). Reduced Damage Resistance bonus from Pool/Fighting/Tough.
* Increased its Endurance Cost. Reduced Defense bonus from
* Pool/Fighting/Weave. Increased its Endurance Cost. Reduced Defense bonus
* from Pool/Leadership/Maneuvers. Reduced Defense bonus from
* Pool/Leaping/Combat Jumping. Increased the Recharge Time and Decreased
* the duration of Pool/Presence/Invoke Panic. Pool/Speed/Hasten no longer
* buffs Defense. Reduced Ice Armor/Frozen Armor Defense Bonus. Reduced
* Ice Armor/Wet Ice Defense Bonus. Reduced Ice Armor/Glacial Armor Defense
* Bonus. Reduced Ice Armor/Energy Absorption Defense Bonus and set its max
* number of affected targets to 14. Added an Endurance Buff to the Caster
* for each affected target. Reduced Invulnerability/Temporary
* Invulnerability Damage resistance bonus. Reduced Invulnerability/Resist
* Physical Damage resistance bonus. Reduced Invulnerability/Resist
* Elements Damage resistance bonus. Added resistance to Toxic. Reduced
* Invulnerability/Resist Energies Damage resistance bonus. Reduced
* Invulnerability/Unyielding Damage resistance bonus. Increased its Defense
* debuff. Reduced Invulnerability/Invincibility Defense and Accuracy
* bonus. Increased its max number of affected targets to 14. Reduced
* Invulnerability/Tough Hide Defense bonus. Reduced Stone Armor/Rock Armor
* Defense Bonus. Reduced Stone Armor/Brimstone Armor Damage Resistance.
* Reduced Stone Armor/Crystal Armor Defense Bonus. Reduced Stone
* Armor/Mineral Armor Defense Bonus. Reduced Dark Armor/Cloak of Darkness
* Defense bonus. Reduced Super Reflexes/Focused Fighting Defense buff.
* Reduced Super Reflexes/Focused Senses Defense buff. Reduced Dark
* Miasma/Shadow Fall defense bonus. Reduced Storm Summoning/Steamy Mist
* Defense Bonus. Set some of Illusion Control/Superior Invisibility
* Defense bonus to suppress if you attack. Reduced its overall Defense
* bonus. Reduced defense bonus of Illusion Control/Group Invisibility.
* Increased Ancillary Pool/Force Mastery/Force of Nature recharge time.
* Reduced Ancillary Pool/Psionic Mastery/Mind Over Body damage resistance.
* Reduced Ancillary Pool/Electric Mastery/Charged Armor damage resistance.
* Reduced Ancillary Pool/Munitions Mastery/Body Armor damage resistance.
* Reduced Umbral Aura/Absorption damage resistance. Reduced Umbral
* Aura/Shadow Cloak Defense bonus. Reduced Luminous Aura/Incandescence
* damage resistance. Reduced Defense and Damage Resistance values of
* defensive Temporary Powers appropriately based on above changes.


Powers - Villains

* Reduced Lt. Accuracy (ToHit).
This is to limit the severity of defensive adjustments made to some
powersets.
* Reduced Boss Accuracy (ToHit).
This is to limit the severity of defensive adjustments made to some
powersets.
* Reduced Elite Boss Accuracy (ToHit).
This is to limit the severity of defensive adjustments made to some
powersets
* There is a new low level Circle of Thorns minion, The Guardian.
Power sets for CoT minions slightly redesigned.
* Higher level Circle of Thorns Minions should no longer repeatedly cast
* the same debuffs over and over, nor should they stack them on top of
* already existing Debuffs of that type.
Bug Fix.
* Some higher level Circle of Thorns minions are exhibiting new powers.
Power sets for CoT minions slightly redesigned.


UI

* Contact names now appear a different color from other NPC names. There
* is now a new option to disable dragging powers around in the power tray.
* New slash commands:
/reply - replies to the last person who sent you a /tell. /tell_last or
/tl - sends a tell to the last player you sent a /tell to.
* Improved text editing on Character ID screen. Options menu rearranged
* slightly for ease of use.



--
John Parkinson

More about : patch notes

Anonymous
July 16, 2005 4:08:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

Magnus Itland wrote:

> Nerf bat? It's more like "nerf gatling" or "nerf combine harvester".
> Evidently someone has come to the conclusion that since high level
> content is now one year overdue, it is imperative to make the game more
> challenging for high-level players by simply NERFING THEM ALL! It is a
> grisly sight. I am sure the game will still be playable, but I think
> this is a suboptimal solution to the problem of a too easy high-level game.

They really didn't have much choice. It was pretty much impossible to kill
most high-level builds.

--
Dennis F. Heffernan CoH: Venture (Virtue) hefferman@comcast.net
#include <disclaim.h> MS Messenger: Venture

"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days
when Victoria reigned!" -- T.S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Anonymous
July 16, 2005 5:31:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

John Parkinson <jp--usenet--spam--trap@destiny.org.uk> looked up from
reading the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good,
the signs say:

>Whew. And I thought I4 had a lot of nerfs.
>
>Issue 5: Forest of Dread

<snip loads of scary things>

Sounds more like
Issue 5: Forest of Nerfs

<sigh> Maybe issue 6 will be better

Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
Related resources
Can't find your answer ? Ask !
Anonymous
July 17, 2005 1:24:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 12:08:29 -0400, Dennis Francis Heffernan
<hefferman@comcast.net> wrote:
> Magnus Itland wrote:
>
>> Nerf bat? It's more like "nerf gatling" or "nerf combine harvester".
>> Evidently someone has come to the conclusion that since high level
>> content is now one year overdue, it is imperative to make the game more
>> challenging for high-level players by simply NERFING THEM ALL! It is a
>> grisly sight. I am sure the game will still be playable, but I think
>> this is a suboptimal solution to the problem of a too easy high-level
>> game.
>
> They really didn't have much choice. It was pretty much impossible to
> kill most high-level builds.

Well, they could have added a little high-level content. It is a year
since last time, after all, if memory serves. Just a couple nifty
monsters might have kept the ubermenschen occupied for a patch or two
until they could give it some more focus. I know CoH wants to be different
from all the other MMORPGs, but you don't get around adding high-level
content sooner of later unless you plan to close down the game. In the
case of CoH, I expect the high-level content to be CoV, much like Realm vs
Realm is the meat of DAoC. They had only needed to tide through until then.

--
"When someone starts bragging about how much debt they have, it's not a
good sign." -G
Anonymous
July 17, 2005 2:13:53 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

Magnus Itland wrote:

> Well, they could have added a little high-level content. It is a year
> since last time, after all, if memory serves.

I agree Croatoa was targetted for the wrong level, but that's got nothing to
do with the nerf issue.

--
Dennis F. Heffernan CoH: Venture (Virtue) hefferman@comcast.net
#include <disclaim.h> MS Messenger: Venture

"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days
when Victoria reigned!" -- T.S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Anonymous
July 17, 2005 3:29:56 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 13:31:44 -0700, Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net>
wrote:

>John Parkinson <jp--usenet--spam--trap@destiny.org.uk> looked up from
>reading the entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good,
>the signs say:
>
>>Whew. And I thought I4 had a lot of nerfs.
>>
>>Issue 5: Forest of Dread
>
><snip loads of scary things>
>
>Sounds more like
>Issue 5: Forest of Nerfs
>
><sigh> Maybe issue 6 will be better
>
>Xocyll

i find the whining on the Test Sever to be a lot more entertaining the
the actual issue.

Btw my level 43 Invul/scrapper still fights on Invincible just
fine......despite all the DOOOOOOM.
Anonymous
July 17, 2005 4:25:38 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

"Dennis Francis Heffernan" <hefferman@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:p rCdna80mqDCskTfRVn-2A@comcast.com...
> Magnus Itland wrote:
>
>> Nerf bat? It's more like "nerf gatling" or "nerf combine harvester".
>> Evidently someone has come to the conclusion that since high level
>> content is now one year overdue, it is imperative to make the game more
>> challenging for high-level players by simply NERFING THEM ALL! It is a
>> grisly sight. I am sure the game will still be playable, but I think this
>> is a suboptimal solution to the problem of a too easy high-level game.
>
> They really didn't have much choice. It was pretty much impossible to
> kill most high-level builds.
>
The new defiance system for blasters will create a "bomber" mentality. All
you need is fly and a healer (or FF or just a pile of insp)
Find a nice group of appropriate size at +4 levels to you, fly over them at
max hieght, cut off fly and fall to the ground in them (going to 1 hp from
fall), then NOVA and collect fat exp. I tested and was doing 1200 points of
damage to a -2 minion and 600+ to a even minion with AR, nasty.
Anonymous
July 17, 2005 7:24:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

That Guy wrote:

> The new defiance system for blasters will create a "bomber" mentality. All
> you need is fly and a healer (or FF or just a pile of insp)
> Find a nice group of appropriate size at +4 levels to you, fly over them at
> max hieght, cut off fly and fall to the ground in them (going to 1 hp from
> fall), then NOVA and collect fat exp. I tested and was doing 1200 points of
> damage to a -2 minion and 600+ to a even minion with AR, nasty.

I'm betting that the actual gain from this style of play, once the inevitable
debt is accounted for, won't really challenge what could be accomplished with
a decent group, or even soloing door missions.

--
Dennis F. Heffernan CoH: Venture (Virtue) hefferman@comcast.net
#include <disclaim.h> MS Messenger: Venture

"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days
when Victoria reigned!" -- T.S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Anonymous
July 18, 2005 12:59:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 22:13:53 -0400, Dennis Francis Heffernan
<hefferman@comcast.net> wrote:
> Magnus Itland wrote:
>
>> Well, they could have added a little high-level content. It is a year
>> since last time, after all, if memory serves.
>
> I agree Croatoa was targetted for the wrong level, but that's got
> nothing to do with the nerf issue.

Yes it does. If they had added a zone of lvl 50++ content, they would not
had needed to nerf the vast majority of the high-level players. They
could have upped the few that were below instead, which causes a lot less
noise and gives a lot better PR.

Admittedly this would not have fulfilled Statesman's vision that only
people who want debt should play at Invincible, but this is not
necessarily a vision shared by either the players or the shareholders.

--
"When someone starts bragging about how much debt they have, it's not a
good sign." -G
Anonymous
July 18, 2005 12:59:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 20:59:40 +0200, Magnus Itland <itlandm@online.no>
wrote:

>Yes it does. If they had added a zone of lvl 50++ content, they would not
>had needed to nerf the vast majority of the high-level players. They
>could have upped the few that were below instead, which causes a lot less
>noise and gives a lot better PR.
>

No they could not have. My tank is invincible, completely and utterly,
he has not died since level 16, that cannot be fixed by adding more
content.

>Admittedly this would not have fulfilled Statesman's vision that only
>people who want debt should play at Invincible, but this is not
>necessarily a vision shared by either the players or the shareholders.

What shareholders?
July 18, 2005 12:59:42 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

Quantum Tarantino wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 20:59:40 +0200, Magnus Itland <itlandm@online.no>
> wrote:
>
> No they could not have. My tank is invincible, completely and utterly,
> he has not died since level 16, that cannot be fixed by adding more
> content.
>

Armor piercing ammo.
Introduce some new mob with a nice little attack combo where the first
attack has a suprising little -def and -res effect, something on the
order of 25%. Give the second attack some decent damage and mabey a
thirty second DoT.

Three or four pairs of those scattered through a mission (solo/heroic)or
packed wall to wall (team 8/invincible) and you might be challenged.

Up mob difficulty and AI/scripting, much more enjoyable results than
nerfing 70% of the players. With the added benefit that some people
might resubscribe for new content rather than leave because of mass nerfs.

--
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
Anonymous
July 18, 2005 9:10:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 14:14:23 -0800, buser@heck.huh wrote:

>Armor piercing ammo.
>Introduce some new mob with a nice little attack combo where the first
>attack has a suprising little -def and -res effect, something on the
>order of 25%. Give the second attack some decent damage and mabey a
>thirty second DoT.


So in essence, Allow them to kill Defenders and Controllers in a
single shot, in order to make tankers less invincible.

Nope, sorry, not a good plan.
July 18, 2005 9:10:05 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

Quantum Tarantino wrote:
>
>
> So in essence, Allow them to kill Defenders and Controllers in a
> single shot, in order to make tankers less invincible.
>
> Nope, sorry, not a good plan.
>

You misread, think about the numbers involved. I didn't say +50% all
around damage boost, that would one-shot the squishies. I said combo,
first a debuff and than a solid hit with a long damage over time.

Think about the powers involved here, tank/controller/defender. The tank
is using defense(moderate), resistance(high), and hit points(high), this
attack combo would usually cut noticeable chunks off of each of those.
The controller would hold/lock the guy before the second shot while the
defender would avoid (FF, dark) or mitigate (heal, damage debuff, self
buff) the effect. Of course if the squishy just walks up and says "Gank
me!" by doing nothing then the mob would be perfectly justified by two
shotting him.

Tanks run on a passive self defense system, they apply powers to
themselves making themselves unkillable in the time it takes them to
arrest stuff. Except for FF defenders the others have active self
defense systems, they use powers on the enemy that prevent damage to
themsleves. Because of the nature of the controller and defender powers
the effects of the powers in mitigating damage tend to be more extreme
than the effects of the tanker defenses. A tank toggle may prevent 50%
of one type of damage, a hold will prevent 100% of all types of damage
if you hit with it.

Another option may have been to lower some of the damage resistance caps
again, or cap resistance/defense from self applied powers but not other
hero's powers. The debuffs from the first attack of the combo could
apply only to buffs, not to total or base defense and resistance. There
are lots and lots of options other than massive nerfs.

I repeat myself. Up mob difficulty and AI/scripting, much more enjoyable
results than nerfing 70% of the players. With the added benefit that
some people might resubscribe for new content rather than leave because
of mass nerfs. That's my whole point, there are better options than
nerfs. They may be a bit harder to code, but if the 'problem' has gone
on this long without major negative impact on the game then they could
take the time to code it.

--
If you can smile when things go wrong, you have someone in mind to blame.
Anonymous
July 18, 2005 11:59:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

buser@heck.huh looked up from reading the entrails of the porn spammer
to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>Quantum Tarantino wrote:
>>
>>
>> So in essence, Allow them to kill Defenders and Controllers in a
>> single shot, in order to make tankers less invincible.
>>
>> Nope, sorry, not a good plan.
>>
>
>You misread, think about the numbers involved. I didn't say +50% all
>around damage boost, that would one-shot the squishies. I said combo,
>first a debuff and than a solid hit with a long damage over time.

>Think about the powers involved here, tank/controller/defender. The tank
>is using defense(moderate), resistance(high), and hit points(high), this
>attack combo would usually cut noticeable chunks off of each of those.
>The controller would hold/lock the guy before the second shot while the
>defender would avoid (FF, dark) or mitigate (heal, damage debuff, self
>buff) the effect. Of course if the squishy just walks up and says "Gank
>me!" by doing nothing then the mob would be perfectly justified by two
>shotting him.

The problem with this is that said mob is most likely not isolated.
So if he gets shot #1 off and puts a heavy def/res debuff on a
controller/defender, then _his_friends_, shooting a slightly delay
later, splat the squishie - since his def/res has been lowered
drastically - quite possibly into the negatives - and neg resist =
increased damage.

The only way this could work as a 1-2 punch and only as a 1-2 punch
would be to introduce some new damage type and have this critter be both
the source of the debuff and the only one doing damage of that type.

I don't know about you, but frankly I _don't_ trust Cryptic doing
something like this and getting it _right_ in less than 4 months of
play, and that's 4 months of them saying there's no problem before
finally admitting there is.

The time to have sorted out this kind of thing was before release, but
they flubbed that, and there's no indication they've learned anything
since, as they're about to introduce yet another uber-damage mechanism
(defiance) to be exploited to death by the number crunchers.

No doubt around issue 6 they'll heavily decrease the defiance boost with
the comment that they never guessed it would be abused, relied on, have
builds and strategies focussed entirely around it.

Cynical, me? I prefer the term experienced.

Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
Anonymous
July 18, 2005 2:10:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

Magnus Itland wrote:

> Yes it does. If they had added a zone of lvl 50++ content, they would
> not had needed to nerf the vast majority of the high-level players.

Sorry, but no. The standard of balance on live is untenable and has been for
a year. They can't even develop meaningful endgame content while the majority
of players have indestructible builds.

> Admittedly this would not have fulfilled Statesman's vision that only
> people who want debt should play at Invincible, but this is not
> necessarily a vision shared by either the players or the shareholders.

The shareholders don't care, and the whiners will leave and be replaced. If
thousands leave, thousands more will join when CoV is released, and they won't
know that once upon a time their characters could stand in front of 200 mobs
and never die.

--
Dennis F. Heffernan CoH: Venture (Virtue) hefferman@comcast.net
#include <disclaim.h> MS Messenger: Venture

"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days
when Victoria reigned!" -- T.S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Anonymous
July 18, 2005 2:26:47 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

buser@heck.huh wrote:

> Armor piercing ammo.
> Introduce some new mob with a nice little attack combo where the first
> attack has a suprising little -def and -res effect, something on the
> order of 25%. Give the second attack some decent damage and mabey a
> thirty second DoT.
>
> Three or four pairs of those scattered through a mission (solo/heroic)or
> packed wall to wall (team 8/invincible) and you might be challenged.

That would mildly annoy most current Tankers, and cause most squishies to
spontaneously combust.

> Up mob difficulty and AI/scripting, much more enjoyable results than
> nerfing 70% of the players. With the added benefit that some people
> might resubscribe for new content rather than leave because of mass nerfs.

Making the mobs more difficult is not an option. You've got, on the one
hand, Tankers and Scrappers than can round up dozens or hundreds of mobs and
kill them all with no risk, and on the other Blasters who die if three mobs
look at them hard. Mobs difficult enough to challenge the former mean the
latter may as well not bother existing.

More complex AI is just not going to happen either. The servers simply don't
have enough processor power to run complex AI for thousands of mobs at a time,
and probably won't within our lifetimes. Even if they did people would
eventually out-think it, since the mobs are nothing but tiny bits of code.
Furthermore, tweaking the AI to prevent herding does nothing at all about the
fact that most Tankers are simply indestructible, and most Scrappers might as
well be.

In order for challenge to be restored to the game, the mobs have to become
more powerful relative to the players, and that means nerfs.

--
Dennis F. Heffernan CoH: Venture (Virtue) hefferman@comcast.net
#include <disclaim.h> MS Messenger: Venture

"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days
when Victoria reigned!" -- T.S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Anonymous
July 18, 2005 2:37:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

buser@heck.huh wrote:

> Think about the powers involved here, tank/controller/defender. The tank
> is using defense(moderate), resistance(high), and hit points(high), this
> attack combo would usually cut noticeable chunks off of each of those.

What you don't get is:

a) Debuffing people who don't have defense or resistance in the first place
*still works*. Your proposed attack would do 25% more damage to *everyone*,
not just people with resistance, and it would make *everyone* easier to hit,
not just people with high Defense.

b) Resistance debuffs don't actually debuff resistance. They multiple
incoming damamge by the debuff amount. If you've got a guy with 90% resist
being hit with a 100 point shot and 25% resist debuff, he doesn't take 35
damage instead of 10. He takes 12.5. The guy without resistance, though,
will take 125.

> The controller would hold/lock the guy before the second shot while the
> defender would avoid (FF, dark) or mitigate (heal, damage debuff, self
> buff) the effect.

The squishies would be hit once and then absolutely murdered by everything
around them thanks to the debuffs.

> There are lots and lots of options other than massive nerfs.

No, there aren't. Anything that would challenge the current
high-survivability builds would liquify everyone else.

--
Dennis F. Heffernan CoH: Venture (Virtue) hefferman@comcast.net
#include <disclaim.h> MS Messenger: Venture

"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days
when Victoria reigned!" -- T.S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Anonymous
July 18, 2005 11:26:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 14:14:23 -0800, <buser@heck.huh> wrote:
> Quantum Tarantino wrote:
>> No they could not have. My tank is invincible, completely and utterly,
>> he has not died since level 16, that cannot be fixed by adding more
>> content.
>
> Armor piercing ammo.
> Introduce some new mob with a nice little attack combo where the first
> attack has a suprising little -def and -res effect, something on the
> order of 25%. Give the second attack some decent damage and mabey a
> thirty second DoT.
>
> Three or four pairs of those scattered through a mission (solo/heroic)or
> packed wall to wall (team 8/invincible) and you might be challenged.
>
> Up mob difficulty and AI/scripting, much more enjoyable results than
> nerfing 70% of the players. With the added benefit that some people
> might resubscribe for new content rather than leave because of mass
> nerfs.

Actually there are already villains doing better than that. I am talking
about the ones that blink off your toggles. Most tankers and scrappers
depend heavily on toggle powers. While a toggled-off tanker is still a lot
more solid than a defender or blaster, he is not indestructable. (Or if he
is, I would dearly like to know how he got that way, because I am not.)
Making it harder to switch back on your toggles in a second, and making
them drop more often, would effectively nerf the tankers and most
scrappers. It would also make squishies with the ability to unfreeze you
more valuable in a team. By limiting the uber anti-toggle weapons to
certain mobs, you would give people a choice to chicken out of those zones
and the greater rewards found there.

--
"When someone starts bragging about how much debt they have, it's not a
good sign." -G
Anonymous
July 19, 2005 10:51:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.coh (More info?)

> In order for challenge to be restored to the game, the mobs have to become
>more powerful relative to the players, and that means nerfs.


Dennis, You and i have been in the same Newsgroup on and off, since
UO, and i can honestly say, for the first time, we COMPLETELY agree on
something.

This game needs a complete rebalancing, and if that means my tank can
actually die again, bring it on.
!