I am seeking to build one of the last Windows machines that I will ever own. Since I am using an ATI Radeon All-In-Wonder (AGP) to capture the odd video, I require Windows XP 32-bit.
I don’t like wasting my money. If I purchase a 64-bit system, I want a 64-bit OS on it. As such, I am asking the forum members for some advice on choosing the right 32-bit hardware for this “legacy machine”
I am seeking the fastest dual-core, 32-bit processor out there. Not necessarily in Ghz, but in sheer power. This processor can be either AMD or Intel (it will probably be Intel… shame, since I am an AMD stalwart), but it must be a pure 32-bit processor. Additionally, I am going to need to have it support SSE2 (therefore, probably Intel), and SSE3 would be nice, but not overly necessary.
My problem is, while Wikipedia has a very nice breakdown of Intel processors that would fit my needs, these descriptions don’t exactly provide an easy way of spotting the appropriate processors on Ebay and other sites. While I could make guesses, I really don’t want to gamble with my money. Hence, my appeal to you people for some help.
From what I gather, the Pentium 4 EE, 4E and 4F classes of processors were the last of the 32-bit dual-cores. What I am asking for is whether I am on the right track with these processors, and what to look for (on Ebay, etc.) when shopping for my item.
I could also use some suggestions for Motherboards, if at all possible. If there is a consensus about which processor would be the best match, could someone also pipe in on some Motherboard suggestions? One of the minor reasons why I am an AMD fan is because there is rarely any ambiguity as to what AMD processor would work in each motherboard (a socket 939 mobo could run any socket 939 chip), whereas Intel had a very confusing series of “generations” within each socket design that made it very hard to determine which board could run which processor (what processors can run on an LGA775 board? -- it depends!!).
I also once saw a dual-socket Intel mobo that could take two dual-core 32-bit chips. I can’t remember any details, aside from it being a dual-socket, dual-core 32-bit architecture. Does anyone know the board I am talking about, or was I just hallucinating?
This makes no sense, Why in the world do you need a true 32bit cpu? If you where to do what you actually said you wanted to do. You would be just wasting money. Which is also something that baffles me. Get a cheap AMD x2 or intel pentium dual core(allendale) or a lower end cd2. But then you said you wanted the fastest 32bit dual core possible so im stumped.
Can you explain why you need a 32bit only chip? Modern processors can run both in 32bit and 64bit, and are much faster than any P4.
Anyway, to answer your question, the P4 Northwood and Athlon XPs were the last generation of CPUs that were 32bit only, and both are terribly outdated by todays standards. You'll most likely only find them 2nd hand, since they have long been discontinued from retail sale.
In sheer power, any CPU that is only 32-bit will get it's ass handed to it by a native 32-bit CPU that can also process 64-bit instructions. Why? Because they are so damn old. A 64-bit CPU (provided it isn't an Itanium or similar) is just as capable, usually more capable, of processing 32-bit data than a "pure" 32-bit CPU. But it's your money and by buying what you are after you really are gambling it...
All Athlon X2's and Pentium D's/EE's (The Pentium 4's are single core) are 64-bit. In fact, since 2006, all CPU's have been 64-bit. You're wasting your money to build a system around a 32-bit CPU period considering you'll buy them used and from non-reliable sources. I don't know why you're so stuck on this crazy idea, but XP runs the same on a 64-bit CPU as it does on a 32-bit CPU. You're better off spending the money on new hardware since, as you said, this is the last Windows machine you want to build.
pure 32bit CPU, why? ) I have an AGP video adaptor but can use a PCIE vga, I can use DDR or DDR2 memory, I have some old wd 120gb and maxtor 160gb ata but can use SATA2 hdd, and I can capture 768x576 full height PAL (interlaced) with no dropped frames with my tv tunner and with less than 10% CPU usage. Hell, I even tested an old TI4600 AGP card with vivo and I get the same performance, as for capturing you mostly need a fast drive (all 7200rpm).
Pentium dualcore E2180 + Asrock 4CoreDual-SATA2 for under 90euros. I believe that something like this is the best solution as you can reuse the old hardware that you have (VGA, HDD, MEM).
The last pure 32-bit CPUs were the early intel P4's and the AMD K7's(and the short-lived Core Duo that showed up in some laptops between the P4 and the Core 2 Duo). And to be quite blunt, you would have to be pure bat-s**t insane to purposely want to hunt down (and probably pay a premium for) one of those. You could very easily build a PC using modern 64-bit capable CPU's for very little money. Just because a CPU is 64-bit capable does not mean that it is not able to run 32-bit processes as fast or faster than a pure 32-bit CPU, as pretty much all of them are. If you take any 32-bit P4 or K7 and stack it up against a modern CPU such as the Core2 Duo or the Athlon 64 X2, it will get its ass handed to it in even running 32-bit apps.
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AMD X2 6000+ 3210Mhz 1.5V|4GB DDR2 800|2x eVGA 8800GTS 512MB 815Mhz core 1945Mhz Shader 2174Mhz GDDR3|Antec 650W|2x36GB 74GB 750GB 2x250GB 250GB & 160GB externals|Vista Ultimate x64
1.8TB and I'm still running out of space...never thought I'd see the day
There has never, ever been a dual core "pure 32-bit" CPU. Dual Core CPUs are all 32-bit/64-bit hybrids meaning they are capable of running a 32-bit OS and a 64-bit OS.
My Intel Core 2 Duo when clocked at a mere 1.6GHz, can run rings around my Athlon XP running at 2.4GHz in any 32-bit application including video encoding.
The Athlon 64 CPUs (64-bit capable) were first introduced in 2003. If I am not mistaken, Intel released their first 64-bit capable CPU back in 2005 (late 2004?); the Pentium 4 "Prescott".
If you really insist on buy obsolete technology then be my guest. But you will be wasting your money.
Wikipedia isn't the best place to do research. You can get a good overview of some stuff, but I wouldn't make any conclusions based on information from wikipedia.
I was where you are now a couple of years ago. I paid about 400$ for a AMD clawhammer because when I thought it sounded cool. These guys are pretty tough on people who are learning.
Don't worry about the 64bit thing, it really isn't important right now for you.
Stay away from 939 boards since DDR memory is so expensive. AM2 boards can run a Athlon 4000 X2 and DDR2 memory. You can get 2Gigs of DDR2 for like 25 bucks now. DDR2 is much better ram also.
Just make sure that you get a motherboard with an AGP slot if your maine concern is the ATI card.
Computer technology is the epitome of supply and demand economics. Bleeding edge technology is expensive and so is legacy technology. The stuff that is a year old is really good hardware and it is inexpensive because there is so much of it.
Good luck and try to ignore the nerd rage in some replies. There are some really helpful guys on this forum.
Message edited by rickpatbrown on 04-26-2008 at 08:29:29 AM
Thanks for all your opinions so far, but the point is, I’m not going to waste a 64-bit CPU on a 32-bit OS.
Since my video card is the ATI Radeon All-In-Wonder (AGP), and since AMD only provides the extended programs (TV, capture software, etc.) for Windows 32-bit, I need Windows XP 32-bit but I really don’t want to waste a 64-bit CPU on a 32-bit OS. Call me crazy, but that’s my primary intention with this whole post.
Hence my desire to go with an older 32-bit CPU, but with all capable possibilities (SSE2, dual-core, hyperthreading). All I need is some information on how to easily identify the highest-end 32-bit dual-core processors ever released.
I have done more research. It appears that the P4EE, P4E and P4F processors were all 32-bit only when they first came out. About halfway through their run (after they became dual-core hyperthreading), they were all given 64-bit instructions.
I just don’t know how to identify those particular processors that were the last of the 32-bit class. Recommendations?
You will pay more money for a system based on a 32-bit processor. You can get a 64 bit processor (that also runs 32 bit code perfectly) for about 50$. Ram 25$ and a motherboard for about 50$.
If you have all the other components, that's very inexpensive. There is no way you'd be able to buy a 32-bit system for that price.
You will pay more money for a system based on a 32-bit processor. You can get a 64 bit processor (that also runs 32 bit code perfectly) for about 50$. Ram 25$ and a motherboard for about 50$.
If you have all the other components, that's very inexpensive. There is no way you'd be able to buy a 32-bit system for that price.
And will that run my AGP-based ATI All-In-Wonder? Or will it be one of those new-fangled PCI-e motherboards where I am FORCED to go out and purchase another ATI All-In-Wonder for $$$$$$$$$$$.
I am very pleased with the performance and capabilities of my current AGP video card. I do not need to be forced to spend hundreds of dollars on a new PCI-e All-In-Wonder. Any savings in the hardware profile you provided is more than wasted on what I would have to pay on a new All-In-Wonder.
Once again, my requirements:
AGP 8x capabilities
SSE2
dual-core
hyperthreading
SSE3 desirable (but not required)
dual-socket desirable (for 4-way, but not required)
32-bit OS required for All-In-Wonder
3Gb RAM capable (dual channel desirable)
The obvious solution, since I am not interested in wasting a 64-bit processor on a 32-bit OS, is a high-end 32-bit CPU.
You don't know about newegg yet do you? Be careful. You are about to tread into the dangerous world of plentiful, affordable computer parts. This site started my obsession.
The important thing is to get a board that supports DDR2 memory since it is so affordable now. Here are some based on AMD. You could get intel boards if that's your fancy.
Make sure you post a list of components before you purchase them so people can give you feedback as to compatability and maybe some pointers as to pricing.
Post in the VGA section as to specifics with your AGP card.
You don't know about newegg yet do you? Be careful. You are about to tread into the dangerous world of plentiful, affordable computer parts. This site started my obsession.
The important thing is to get a board that supports DDR2 memory since it is so affordable now. Here are some based on AMD. You could get intel boards if that's your fancy.
Make sure you post a list of components before you purchase them so people can give you feedback as to compatability and maybe some pointers as to pricing.
Post in the VGA section as to specifics with your AGP card.
You don’t know about Newegg’s International shipping policies, do you? Be careful if you aren’t some badly-educated, provincial Yank who thinks that 100% of all people on the Internet come from the ol’ US of A and that the world revolves around America.
The cheapest thing we have up here is TigerDirect.ca. And the only thing they carry with an AGP 8x port is a Socket A board. Problem is, Athlon 32-bit processors cannot do SSE2, which is what I require. Nor are they hyperthreading, and nor are they dual-core (although the MP processors allow a system to be dual-processor).
I have done a reasonable amount of my own homework. Thing is, I am just not familiar with Intel chips, since they have always required a Master’s degree in mysticism and divination to figure out which chip goes with which board. And the only chips which fit my requirements are Intel chips.
There is NO 32bit only CPU that meets your criteria, the 'newest' 32bit only CPU was released way back in 2002. If you want a dinosaur CPU, be my guest, but if you came here for advice at least have the courtesty of acknowledging it instead of being so damn obnoxious.
I'll repeat what everyone else has said - there is NO reason whatsoever not to consider current CPUs that support both 32bit *and* 64bit, you are not 'wasting' it by running it in 32bit mode, get it?!
Don't mess with dual sockets (two dual core CPUs on one board). They are more for server solutions. You could get a quad core CPU and MB that is much more reasonable.
The newer intel CPUs don't have hyperthreading but are much more efficient. I think intel is going to bring it back with Nehalem.
I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a chip that doesn't support sse3.
All 32 bit systems are capable of 3G memory. 4 gig is the limit and this is one of the most convincing reasons to go 64bit. Graphics memory counts towards total system memory. If you have a card with 512MB videoram and 2 Gig DDram, total is 2.5Gs. If you purchased another 2 Gs ram, the system would only recognize 1.5 of it.
Now, if you want eight cores, there's only one thing for that. Search for skulltrail if you want to read something interesting.
Be careful if you aren’t some badly-educated, provincial Yank who thinks that 100% of all people on the Internet come from the ol’ US of A and that the world revolves around America.
Sad to say, but the world does revolve around America. Look at the food shortages around the world as a result of biofuel production.
Don't worry, I was on top of the whole Kelowna thing right from the jump. Looks pretty nice. Do you fish much up there?
Message edited by rickpatbrown on 04-26-2008 at 09:48:41 AM
) I have an AGP video adaptor but can use a PCIE vga, I can use DDR or DDR2 memory, I have some old wd 120gb and maxtor 160gb ata but can use SATA2 hdd, and I can capture 768x576 full height PAL (interlaced) with no dropped frames with my tv tunner and with less than 10% CPU usage. Hell, I even tested an old TI4600 AGP card with vivo and I get the same performance, as for capturing you mostly need a fast drive (all 7200rpm).