vintage question replacing slot 1 with socket 370 cpu,

[underclockerx]

i have an old motherboard (ecs p6bat-a+) that has both slot 1 and socket 370 that can be used interchangeably...

it used to have a 450 mhz p3 on the slot 1, and now i've found a p3 800 mhz that i can use.

with the 800 installed, the first boot wasn't successful, no post
i reinstalled and double-checked the hardware. system booted, post was successful, however, when booting into windows xp ( the working OS used with the old 450) after the progress bar finishes,

the system reboots...

could it be possible that i need to reinstall the OS?

or is it a cooling issue? change fan / heatsink / replace thermal cpd?


btw, could i toast the cpu if i changed voltage from the bios?

i've no idea how to diff. a toasted cpu from a working one,
are burned cpu's really burned, or does it occur that a burned cpu might not manifest 'burns' physically?

 

[apache_lives]

being an ECS, typical

ok, check your cooling - make sure you got fresh thermal paste and remove the old gunk

check your ram, make sure its PC133 (if your cpu is an EB then you need it, eb meaning coppermine 256k, fsb133)

check your bios and other settings

also make sure that the motherboard actually does physically support coppermine/180nm cpus - its a whole new generation from your old cpu

its hard to kill an intel, trust me, and according to intel spec sheets, 2.0v shouldnt cause any damage (2.0v being the stock for your old cpu)

on the other hand, time to get a new system mate, even a cheap celeron today will blow the doors off a pentium 4

 

[rockbyter]

toast usually means it no longer works. reset your bios to defaults and reboot, then go back in and make sure your boot devices are in the right order. see if that clears it up.

 

[underclockerx]

i do have a working 3.2 ghz at the office, so i'm just doing all sorts of funky stuff on this box that i never get to do on the pricy pc...flash the bios, stuff like that...

don't worry, it's so draggin slow i can't even develop with text based editors( although this once's java,

so i do plan to get a 2.4 ghz coming up, but still i want to get it working, probably as a linux-apache webserver

 

[ahmshaegar]

Well, since that's such an old computer, and you are considering ultimately running Linux on that, why not try a Linux live CD now and see if that boots at all? If it doesn't boot successfully, either, then at least we can guess it's not a software issue. Since that is an older computer, it's likely that you won't have driver issues preventing a successful startup or install of any common Linux distro. Well, either way... my experiences with ECS are quite hit-and-miss, so good luck.

 

[underclockerx]

yes, i know i missed that one last night, i really should have...
i've a fedora and a dsl lying around...

by the way, thank you very much guys,
i just hope i haven't fried the cpu last night yet...

it's so amusing to play with these things nowadays, a PIII 800 mhz processor for $5...
man that used to be my dream setup,

 

[apache_lives]

yes, i know i missed that one last night, i really should have...
i've a fedora and a dsl lying around...

by the way, thank you very much guys,
i just hope i haven't fried the cpu last night yet...

it's so amusing to play with these things nowadays, a PIII 800 mhz processor for $5...
man that used to be my dream setup,

gotta agree there

used to dream of high end stuff, and now working in the industry i get all sorts of free stuff - i can get free P4 systems

 

[parkardbell486dx2]

I remember when i tried doing that on my Dell XPS R350. Old computer from 1996. It had the dell moded intel BX series motherboard with just Slot 1. I bought a 1ghz P3 socket 370 cpu for it and a slot 1 to socket 370 adapter. It never worked. It was my fault, my system could only handle the copermine version slot 1. Copermine SLOT 1 P3 @ 1ghz are super rare and still even pricey. IF you can, return the 800mhz cpu and see if you can find one in the slot 1 type. To be safe make sure that they are the copermine E version not the EB version. try www.memory4less.com i am sure they still have some left. Oh copermine has 256kb cache and 100mhz front side bus.

 

[parkardbell486dx2]

oh wait i made an error, copermine has 2 versions in the configuration of either Slot 1 or socket 370 with it respectively being either the E series with 100mhz or the EB series with 133mhz. If you are unsure go look at this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_III. Tells you a lot about the history of pentium 3.
also to add on to my previous post is that the reason that my cpu upgrade did not work was because the cpu was running with 133mhz bus, and my system could only handle 100mhz bus. Those old intel boards were very picky about voltage and buss speed. Need to have the right stuff. And yeah what other person said about ECS was right, it's either "hit or miss." Also i was wrong about memory4less.com. It seem they dont sell P3's more. sorry about that. but i am still sure that you u need to get the copermine E version in slot 1 config for your system to work. try ebay or something. good luck

 

[underclockerx]

hmmm... curiously, even if it's 133 mhz processor, shouldn't i be able to run it on slower bus speeds, i know i've tried that before, running a p3 550 at 450 mhz.

anyway, i've looked up the board's supported processor speeds and it does support up to 800 mhz, unfortunately, i just can't find a slot 1 from this side of the world

 

[underclockerx]

ei lots of thanks to everyone who've replied, i'll see what i'll come up next..

the reason i've posted was that i've read somewhere that, it's good practice to reformat the OS even when it's just the processor that you're replacing...

considering that the slot 1 is a completely diff. architecture from the socket 370 type that i'm using at replacement, it occured to me, it just might be an issue

many thanks again

 

[apache_lives]

oh wait i made an error, copermine has 2 versions in the configuration of either Slot 1 or socket 370 with it respectively being either the E series with 100mhz or the EB series with 133mhz. If you are unsure go look at this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_III. Tells you a lot about the history of pentium 3.
also to add on to my previous post is that the reason that my cpu upgrade did not work was because the cpu was running with 133mhz bus, and my system could only handle 100mhz bus. Those old intel boards were very picky about voltage and buss speed. Need to have the right stuff. And yeah what other person said about ECS was right, it's either "hit or miss." Also i was wrong about memory4less.com. It seem they dont sell P3's more. sorry about that. but i am still sure that you u need to get the copermine E version in slot 1 config for your system to work. try ebay or something. good luck

parkardbell486dx2 -> total BS

early motherboards with early vrm designs couldn't supply the coppermines the correct voltage and signal (~1.750v, some celeron coppermines were even 1.550v), that along with intel changing the pin out and requiring a newer bios to work (uncovered and well documented across the web).

the 440bx was officially fsb100 max but ran easily even at 150+ (kinda like a modern 965 etc - 1066 max, still cuts 1600mhz generations later), and later bx based motherboards managed to support fsb133 with the proper fsbci ratio (/4) - if the board supported coppermines it supports them all, and if your board couldnt handle fsb133 it would still post at 100mhz fsb (eg 1ghz EB -> posting as 750E, usually displaying as "P3 750E Mhz"), except the rare few oem boards that were super fussy, requiring new bios's for every cpu, kinda like laptops etc.

coppermine slot 1's were not that rare, and were not at all like the early Katami which was a 250nm/2.0v part with external 1/2 speed cache (450mhz - 600mhz).

early slot 1 adapters were in the same boat and required mods to allow coppermines (add a wire to the back, and cut a pin on the cpu - easy), and MSI as usual fcuked up and released a "slocket" that "supports coppermine" - MSI MS6905 "master" converter which when the coppermine was released, offer no support without mods, until 2+ revisions later.

I lived through this generation, forever losing my faith in Intel to deliver a "upgradable" platform, which can not be said about any company these days, which makes me buy and overhaul rather then upgrade (most of the time anyhow).

 

[apache_lives]

ei lots of thanks to everyone who've replied, i'll see what i'll come up next..

the reason i've posted was that i've read somewhere that, it's good practice to reformat the OS even when it's just the processor that you're replacing...

considering that the slot 1 is a completely diff. architecture from the socket 370 type that i'm using at replacement, it occured to me, it just might be an issue

many thanks again

Iv actually seen one cheap motherboard back in the old days (actually i think it was an ecs) which needed a reinstall for every cpu change (Intel -> AMD -> IBM/Cyrix -> IDT etc) - verry rare, but its computer so its posible, but its more likely to be something else to be honest.

 

[parkardbell486dx2]

well what ever i tired the cpu with 133mhz bus would not work for system. I would get blue screen of death so then i got a P3 600mhz copermine at 100mhz bus and it worked fine. but on post is read as pentium pro 500, though windows saw it as P3 at 599mhz. and sorry again it was 1998 not 1996. I get back to you and check and see where i made BS as i was accused of.

 

[joefriday]

Apache, the Pentium II-based Dell Dimension XPS R series that parkardbell486dx2 has were a bit quirky. For starters, the Bios locks out any P-III katmai with the exception of the PII 450Mhz Katmai. Reason being?: single phase VR, more specifically the Philips PHB21N06LT transistor . Now, a Coppermine PIII slot 1 E would work, or with a slocket, those Dimensions could take a socket 370 Coppermine PIII E or celeron just fine (the EB 133 fsb series would default to 100 fsb). Even Tualatin Celerons will work with a the appropriate modifications to the slocket and/or CPU (Luckily the Dell XPS-R mobo used a Semtech SC1182CS voltage regulator chip, which could support cpu vcore as low as 1.3 volt). However, even with a working Coppermine or Tualtin, the single VR transistor is a major problem. Anything over 800 MHz and the VR circuit's capability to supply current without destroying itself becomes seriously questionable. I personally tested this with a Dimension XPS R-450 I still have, and with a slocket and modded 1.3GHz Tualatin Celeron, the Philips Transistor got so hot that it literally burned my finger, within just 10 seconds after POST. With the stock P-II 450, it is cool to the touch. I've since stuck with the old P-II, but I do have a tiny heatsink I could throw on the transistor to help it handle the slocket/tualatin combo, but that is for another day. Here's a website discussing this problem in detail:
http://www.roberthancock.com/dell/xpsrproc.htm

Secondly, I'd just like to point out that the reason the 440BX chipset could do 133 fsb adequately was because it luckily had the PCI divider needed to keep the pci bus at 33.33 MHz during 133 fsb operation. HOWEVER, it lacked the proper divider for the AGP bus at 133MHz fsb, meaning either using an Nvidia graphics card that could put up with the out of spec AGP clock, or using a PCI graphics card.

 

[underclockerx]

finally, i've been able to re-test the system... and in the process confirmed the feasibility of toothpaste as thermal interface material / paste /compound...

unfortunately, it's the same result, the system... using the socket 370, this time with a celeron 800 mhz - / something / 100

with windows xp, (i'm able to run this with the previous slot 1 450 mhz cpu)
after the progress bar finishes, the system reboots itself

with DSL (damn small linux )live CD (this also runs smoothly with the slot 1)
it tries to load and then ... crc error appears

with the fedora live cd (well this is pretty high end, i only seem to remember running it at dragging slow speed)
loading vmlinuz 0....
loading initrd0.img.......
ready.
uncompressing linux...
crc error
system halted

i've also tried running my kde/debian
and similarly, the system halted

i haven't resorted to reformatting yet...

i ended up getting a p4 2.4 anyway, but still i'd love to see this run on 800 mhz, and at least serve as small network web server for testing some of my web based systems...

thanks to all those who've replied.

 

[doomsdaydave11]

lol @ slot 1, and lol @ ECS. Why do people buy their boards these days anyway? "Hmm, interesting, this board has quad SLI for only $40! Sounds like a good quality board, I'll take it."

Good luck bro.

 

[apache_lives]

finally, i've been able to re-test the system... and in the process confirmed the feasibility of toothpaste as thermal interface material / paste /compound...

unfortunately, it's the same result, the system... using the socket 370, this time with a celeron 800 mhz - / something / 100

with windows xp, (i'm able to run this with the previous slot 1 450 mhz cpu)
after the progress bar finishes, the system reboots itself

with DSL (damn small linux )live CD (this also runs smoothly with the slot 1)
it tries to load and then ... crc error appears

with the fedora live cd (well this is pretty high end, i only seem to remember running it at dragging slow speed)
loading vmlinuz 0....
loading initrd0.img.......
ready.
uncompressing linux...
crc error
system halted

i've also tried running my kde/debian
and similarly, the system halted

i haven't resorted to reformatting yet...

i ended up getting a p4 2.4 anyway, but still i'd love to see this run on 800 mhz, and at least serve as small network web server for testing some of my web based systems...

thanks to all those who've replied.

RUN MEMTEST also check that your bios is up to date and that the board supports coppermines.

 

[endyen]

Take a quick peak at the capacitors near the slot. ECS has always had the habit of using cheap caps. If they are not blown, they still might be adding too much droop to the vrm cct, with the faster chip installed.

 

[underclockerx]

ok, blame me for a lousy oversight, it was just hard to find the actual documentation for this old board

somehow, the board supports slot 1 up to 850 Mhz
and the socket 370 can only handle 533 Mhz celeron

the BIOS upgrade only allowed 533 Mhz Pentium on the socket 370...

so there...
it's just not possible... the only option is to find an 800 - 850 mhz processor

on the upside, i'm now an advocate of toothpaste for thermal paste...
it may eventually dry up...
but it would be just like brushing your teeth..
you'd have to replace the toothpaste every once in a while...



i dunno, maybe i just fell in love with the solid spacy casing of this box
... at least it might drive me to install an apache web server on a command line debian linux

 

[apache_lives]

ok, blame me for a lousy oversight, it was just hard to find the actual documentation for this old board

somehow, the board supports slot 1 up to 850 Mhz
and the socket 370 can only handle 533 Mhz celeron

the BIOS upgrade only allowed 533 Mhz Pentium on the socket 370...

so there...
it's just not possible... the only option is to find an 800 - 850 mhz processor

on the upside, i'm now an advocate of toothpaste for thermal paste...
it may eventually dry up...
but it would be just like brushing your teeth..
you'd have to replace the toothpaste every once in a while...



i dunno, maybe i just fell in love with the solid spacy casing of this box
... at least it might drive me to install an apache web server on a command line debian linux

Ok if it does the slot1 to 850 then it has to support coppermine, wether or not the socket is wired correctly to handle it is another thing, then again its a ECS so this is why you dont expect miracles.

Best chance is to get a coppermine slocket and use that cpu of yours that way but remember dont spend much $$$ on something that could collapse tomorow - perhaps ebay it all and invest in something newer, or save the money toward a new machine.

 

[joefriday]

Thank God the Lunchbox site is still around. It is a gold mine of info. Follow this site's instructions to modify your socket 370 to support coppermine cpus (since your mobo says it only supports 533 mhz socket 370s, I'm thinking it might not be wired correctly for coppermine CPUs, which could definitely be the source of your troubles).

http://www.geocities.com/_lunchbox/pentium3_socket370_mod.html

A funny story about the above mod: I did it to a Dell Optiplex GX-100 that could only support Mendicino Celerons. I updated the Dell BIOS first for coppermine support, and then modified the socket as instructed above. I put my Coppermine Celeron into the Dell, powered it up, (I think) I saw the Dell Logo screen, followed shortly by a screen with the following simple message:
The installed CPU is not supported.

Which I found hilariously ironic, seeing as how the CPU had to be "supported" simply to POST and display that message. Damn Dell BIOS locked me out! LOL.

 

[apache_lives]

Thank God the Lunchbox site is still around. It is a gold mine of info. Follow this site's instructions to modify your socket 370 to support coppermine cpus (since your mobo says it only supports 533 mhz socket 370s, I'm thinking it might no be wired correctly for coppermine CPUs, which could definitely be the source of your troubles).

http://www.geocities.com/_lunchbox/pentium3_socket370_mod.html

i second that - iv used a AOpen motherboard with a Coppermine celeron and it posted and booted half way into windows but was unstable - its entirely possible.

 

[underclockerx]

Thanks for the advice, guys... you just can't be stopped...

by the way, did i mention that the socket 370 didn't work even when i tried a celeron 800 mhz processor?

so i just can't be sure that the pentium would work even if i played with the pins...

but hey... on a dry boring day, if i had nothing else to do, i just might try it...
but since i've been batting zero, for weeks, i'm for cutting loses...

really appreciate the tips