Hi there,

I'd like to play Oblivion a bit better - so I can see stuff like grass etc. lol!

I have a 7600 GS on AGP and a fairly old P4 3.2 which I think is ok for games but I don't know how to check that.

Question 1 - can I get much improvement with a 3850 for about £120 or do I need to go for a whole new mobo, PCI gfx card new CPU etc? I'd like not to spend much money if possible, but don't want to throw away £120 if a new 3850 is then going to be CPU restricted...

Question 2 - How do I test if my CPU is restricting my games? It seems ok for UT2k4 (I play that a lot) and for oblivion the rig seems ok if I turn down the gfx... I just don't know how to formally test that.

Help much appreciated!!!

cheers!!!!

That P4 is a prescott core ? if so, its getting really old in performance. The "catch" is, if you buy your VGA, and get a nice upgrade, imagine that you Mobo breaks down. its hard to find a (good) Mobo with a AGP slot this days. And that Ram is DDR or DDR2 ?

Honestly i would continue to save a bit more for a new rig.

+1, LOL, you're like my twin.

- 'Stagnant in St. Louis' (waiting for Nehalem)

Thanks for your replies!

My P4 is Northwood - think that was even older that Prescott, no? My ram is DDR according to AIDA 32...

But if my mobo blows, surely I can just get an old, cheap one that is the same as my current one? People will be paying me to have them, no?

I should have said - I'm not going to be earning any money for the next year or so as I'm a student, but I have a bit of savings to play with... so maybe a 3850 might get me through the year or so? Is that still the wrong thing to do?

Do you think the 3850 *would* actually produce a decent uplift though, or would the CPU hold it back? Any way to test this with numbers???

cheers and thanks for opinions!

Gearoi

Yeah you have my computer!!! Give it back!!!

I don't think a 3850 will work in your systems, since no socket 478 had PCIx that I am aware of and the 3850 is a PCIx video card. Your 7600GS is AGP correct?

Yes - but there is an 3850 AGP version also - recently out...

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/prod [...] 403&mfrid=

I'm downloading 3D Mark 06 to see how much it laughs at my CPU before deciding. Any other method appreciated!

if your Mobo blows up, you might get another, but from My Professional exprience, you will have 2 choices. The Top of The Line or The Lowest of the line.

Ussualy the Lowest of the line or the "Refurbished" will be available after a few years. Will be cheap, but dont compare a Jetway or a lower brand to your Gigabyte. Well have fun anyway !!

You might want to look for someting like this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6814102730

If I were you I might consider upgrading the AGP card and waiting a year until Nehalem is available to do a complete build. The 3.2 Northwood is a good chip (I used to have one) and since most games don't make use of multiple cores yet you might be better off waiting.

There isnt a test to tell if a specific card will run to its full potential in a specific system. but.
A rough way of testing for a cpu limitation is as follows. You will also need Fraps or another app that shows FPS on screen.you can download Fraps free from the internet.
Basically what you do is set every thing to default/middle of the road settings no AA/AF on the graphics card. Run a game at your normal res and note what fraps says the FPS is. Now you can check the Graphics as well while we are at it so for a start we will increase settings turn AA/AF on at a sensable setting dont just set it full. set the sliders to quality and turn on any other settings that may be off at default settings. If possable increase the monitor res as well, this isnt esssential but will give a better indication, You will probably see a drop in fps which shows the graphics card is finding things a bit tough. If you dont then it isnt struggling which is of course good. Now turn every thing in the graphics settings to performance and turn off any thing extra like AA/AF etc. And the res lower than normal if pos. What you get here determines the state of your CPU if the FPS goes up then there isnt a limitation, but if it stays the same or worse goes down then there is.
As i said it will give you a rough indication of performance. From personal experiance i would say the 3850 will be held back by your CPU.
Hope thats not to long winded
Mactronix

I think the 3850 would make a significant improvement in Oblivion, especially if you're not going to be making any money.

^True. But I would assume that the CPU/RAM might be a bottle neck.

There is no doubt the HD3850 would be a massive improvement in IQ and performance in Oblivion. Outside in the foliage, the cpu will not be limiting your performance. But in and around castles and towns, your cpu will be the limiting factor. Oblivion is actually in all a very cpu and gpu demanding game, espeically considering your minimum fps in different parts of the map. Reguardless, the gameplay would be decent with that setup allowing for nice IQ. And your current 7600GS is really quite aweful for this game.

I must add, I think for over $200 it's time to start looking toward a PCI-e rig where a similiar performing PCI-e card is about half the cost ($100 less anyway). That's a good $100-120 right off the bat toward a mobo/cpu/mem. If sticking to AGP, I'd lean toward the HD2600XT which is alot better than a 7900GS for Oblivion, never mind the 7600GS. For roughly half the cost of the HD3850, it makes more sense IMO.

Recently posted in a hot deal forum I read:
http://www.xpcgear.com/100228l.html
No idea if they do international, but I know newegg doesn't.

It would surely be a big upgrade, but in the US, you could find:
P35 mobo: $90
E2160 (or so, and overclock): $70
2x1 GB DDR2: $40 (less if you can afford a rebate)
9600GT: $100

In £, that's probably £150, but prices may be worse in Great Britain.

Wow thx all -

I guess I didn't realise how much cheaper your gfx card will be if you go PCI-e! Also I didn't realise how little RAM costs these days. I paid like £200 for my current RAM -_-

Those 2160s don't look bad at all - can you move up to, say, a Quad 6600 in the future on the same motherboard? That'd be sweet! On a website I checked they are both Socket 775 - does that mean they are compatible? There's also about a billion P35 mobos to check through - I think I'd better research that too...

Are the cheap-end 2160s and so on "proper" dual-cores though? They're not Core 2 Duos I've noticed... hmmm... I bet they'd still kick the backside of my P4 Northwood though ...

Wow that's an awesome deal that card einstein - I don't feel comfortable ordering from overseas though you end up paying like £25/$50 postage if it goes wrong... + £25 for the privilege of getting the thing in the first place... EDIT I checked they only do US/Puerto Rico/Canada anyway...

Thx Paul going for the 2600XT is only £63 quid from scan... not a bad option at all...

I guess I'll check the piggy bank and I might treat myself to some bits to put together after my next lot of exams a month away... I can tell I've got exams coming up I find myself spending my days upgrading my computer instead lol!

The Pentium Dual core is pretty much a Core 2 Duo and has nothing to do with a Pentium 4 or Pentium D and will overclock to 3ghz easy, giving Core2 Duo performance anyhow.

I was wondering if everyone else has this experience, some people were saying that most games dont use more than 1 core, why does EVERY app on my pc max out at 60%? (50% being 1 core at 100% load). And yes im talking only that process using my cpu not including background etc.

DDR2 RAM prices have dropped like a rock. You can find 4GB (2x2) DDR2-800 for $50 after a $20 rebate. But like all the prices I mentioned, I don't know how they compare in GB (which is where I assume you are).

The E2160s use the same architecture as C2D, they just have less cache. I'm running one right now at 2.7GHz with stock cooling and voltage. 3.0GHz to 3.4GHz is a common target for overclocking these processors. Most mobos (definately P35 chipsets) support Q6600 and the new 45nm processors. Not all socket 775 mobos will support all 775 processors, so double check. Commonly recommended is the Gigabyte P35-DS3L for overclocking (there are lots of other good options).

I went from playing games on a amd 2100 and nvidia 5200fx to p4 prescott 2.8ghz and 9800pro. i would spend days and weekends trying to configure my 1st system to run any game smooth with less slowdown. i loved the challenge and i guess that's why i stayed with that old hardware so long. then i had a credit card and upgraded and was only doing so to "test" the actual difference. well every game i played was "locked" at 60 frames per second and that was a very big improvement over my 20-45fps max i was used to from the previous system. so i kept the new hardware and made payments on the $1700 CAD i just racked up!

4 years later, after finally getting so tired of configuring the new batch of games for hours and days rather than actually enjoying the story or becoming involved at all with the actual gameplay, i decided to upgrade to the best AGP graphics card available and that was a 7600 GS at GT speeds. this card "doubled" the framerate of ALL my current games, set up was a breeze and i enjoyed it very much. the card was only 164 dollars CAD *compared to 630 for 9800pro new. now i actually set all my games on high and played them without worry! my problem was not the settings or hardware, rather my TV which supported DVI and would run native 480i/p 720p and 1080i. any game running on those higher resolutions would drop frames on 9800pro and 7600gs. so i needed a newer solution.

i found a 2600xt used and this card had much better features than the 7600gs. it allowed for high resolution games to be played on my old system and HDTV. but it only allowed older games this function and as a result i really found no use for it. i called the store and asked for a return as this card would crash my entire computer mid game and randomly. they said i'd have to pay a restock fee and after agreeing to do so i bought the newest AGP on the block, the 3850 and i've never been happier. games that struggled at 640x480 on my 9800pro now run 10x the speed at 1280x720 maxed out with 2xAA and 8xAF. this card was much more expensive but really who cares about money when it really alleviates soooo much stress and wasted time from set up and configuration hassles. just crank to max and play. i have dx10 demos that run no problem at 1920x1080 on my tv ranging from 25-80 fps and honestly these would not run on any of my old hardware. vista aero runs smooooooth with video and screen transitions maxed out, HD video runs on TWO programs on this card on two separate displays, and on the 9800pro it would stutter like crazy maxing out my p4 oc'd at 3.4ghz.

so, investment of new computer in 2004 has been finally complimented with a functional graphics card that i can trust and rely on. i can play crysis MAXED out at 720p all VERY HIGH in vista dx10 and it RUNS! 2gig ram necessary

sold 9800pro for 80 dollars, sold 2600xt for 125 dollars, that means i paid with NEW money only 60 dollars for this amazing graphics card.
Dual DVI out, core speed of 700MHz and 320 unified shaders, 929MHz DDR-3 RAM effective 1858MHz. Its insane the difference of quality and just playability this card offers to my STACK of older pc games, i mean, FEAR, OBLIVION, HL2, PAINKILLER, FARCRY, COD2,3,4, CRYSIS, all run at 720p now and before on the lowest resolution it would drop below 25, now they run in the 100's and way over!

JUST BUY IT! if it sux for you, which it wont, then sell it, someone WILL pay you for it! just be sure to set all your system back to stock if you have it overclocked. i found this out the hard way. you can overclock, but do it sparingly as instability affects the RIALTO chip badly.