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8800 GTX bottlenecked?

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April 11, 2008 7:21:36 PM

I've been playing Assassins Creed on my E6600(stock speeds), ASUS EN8800 GTX, 4 x 1 GB of Kingmax DDR2 800 - on an Asus Commando motherboard;
Been playing at 1680 x 1050 as it is the native resolution of my Samsung 22" LCD monitor.
If I max out everything I get poor performance according to my expectations as I believe to be having on of the best video cards in the world and should be able to play super smooth everything thats why it is so good.
I can't tell the fps exactly but my gaming experience makes me estimate about 25 fps.
What is my bottleneck? should I over clock the CPU(if so what do I need to buy and what products do you recommend)? are the memories good enough? Change the CPU to quad?
Please advise me on how can I get better performance on max settings and that resolution.



Thanks.

More about : 8800 gtx bottlenecked

April 11, 2008 7:53:58 PM

Don't get a new CPU. If you want try overclocking your CPU. Also I heard that Assassin's Creed in DX10 mode is a real resource hog. So if you got it in DX10 mode, try using DX9.
April 11, 2008 7:57:39 PM

Try a mild over clock to your CPU and see if it makes a difference.
Related resources
April 11, 2008 8:05:50 PM

from 2.4 to 3.0 is a mild overclock? Should I use the stock cooler? Do the kingmax memories support overclocking the CPU to such lever or it does not matter? (Kingmax are cheap memories from what I know) Sorry for being a noob.
April 11, 2008 8:24:48 PM

You said you estimate 25FPs you should run fraps in the back ground to display your FPS in game, it also has a FPS recorder which gives you the max min and average FPS at the end.

And a quad for that game would be a waste of money your dual is sufficient enough.
a c 130 U Graphics card
April 11, 2008 9:56:43 PM

illusionx said:
I've been playing Assassins Creed on my E6600(stock speeds), ASUS EN8800 GTX, 4 x 1 GB of Kingmax DDR2 800 - on an Asus Commando motherboard;
Been playing at 1680 x 1050 as it is the native resolution of my Samsung 22" LCD monitor.
If I max out everything I get poor performance according to my expectations as I believe to be having on of the best video cards in the world and should be able to play super smooth everything thats why it is so good.
I can't tell the fps exactly but my gaming experience makes me estimate about 25 fps.
What is my bottleneck? should I over clock the CPU(if so what do I need to buy and what products do you recommend)? are the memories good enough? Change the CPU to quad?
Please advise me on how can I get better performance on max settings and that resolution.



Thanks.


Assassin's creed is a brand new release and your GTX is how old ? Im sorry but i think you need to lower your expectations. Do you expect to play every game from now on with it with no probs, of course you dont. Its called progress which is the reason for Graphics cards to keep improving. If the developers didnt make games that challenged the hardware everyone would still be running PCI or AGP cards.
Having said that Assassin's creed isnt much more than a badly ported console version which is the reason why it needs high end hardware, the devs just havent bothered to code it very well.
As far as how to get better performance, its not rocket science just turn some of the settings down. You may think you have a card that should handle it all at full, clearly from your post you dont.
There is nothing about your system i would change its a good system you just cant expect it to handle every thing you throw at it with all the bells and whistles on.
I know this comes across a bit harsh but seriously is it really the end of the world if you have to turn the AA/AF down a notch or two to get better FPS ?
Mactronix
April 11, 2008 10:27:23 PM

Thank you for your post Mactronix.
No I'm not expecting to play every game from now on with no probs but I am expecting to do so as long as my videocard is situated in the top 5 world's fastest video cards. Maybe that is the only explanation - the game is badly coded.
April 12, 2008 4:13:07 PM

One more question if I may. Do you think it's a good investment to buy a Thermaltake Big Typhoon VX CPU cooler and try to overclock the processor from 2.4 GHZ to 3.0 GHZ in hopes for better overall gaming performance? (if so will I have memory issues with the cheap kingmax?)
April 12, 2008 4:38:43 PM

You wont need that cpu cooler for only 60-70 mhz fsb increase though it wud be always good to have one aftermarket.
April 12, 2008 5:20:49 PM

How about the memories? if let's say I get that cpu cooler and make it to 3.3 GHZ. Are those crap kingmaxes good enough to do the thing?
a c 130 U Graphics card
April 12, 2008 5:26:25 PM

hsetir said:
You wont need that cpu cooler for only 60-70 mhz fsb increase though it wud be always good to have one aftermarket.


I totally agree, while its good to have an after market cooler when overclocking. The one you mentioned will definatly be overkill.
Just something a little better than stock will be ample for your needs. If you have the funds and dont mind or prefer overdoing things to be on the safe side then by all means get it but its not really needed.
Mactronix
a b U Graphics card
April 12, 2008 5:34:08 PM

Don't listen to all of what Matronix is saying. Although he is partially right, you SHOULD expect to play this game with as much **** eye candy as you want with no problems. The 8800GTX is very close to the highest contender in terms of performance (GX2). Do everything you can to squeeze as many fps out of your system. My Advise: Buy an aftermarkey cooler and get your cpu running at least to 3.0Ghz, but shoot for 3.4Ghz. This will almost guarantee you that you are not cpu bound. Also, pick up some new memory, DDR2 memory is so dam cheap these days, there is no better time to get a new pair. Get at least DDR2800 but if you want to go higher be my guest. And lastly, overclock the **** out of your GTX, you should be able to come near Ultra speeds if you are patient, try using ATI tool and test out how high you can get. If you do all these things than imo you can expect to rape the **** out of assasins creed - Annisman
a c 130 U Graphics card
April 12, 2008 6:05:23 PM

Annisman said:
Don't listen to all of what Matronix is saying. Although he is partially right, you SHOULD expect to play this game with as much **** eye candy as you want with no problems. The 8800GTX is very close to the highest contender in terms of performance (GX2). Do everything you can to squeeze as many fps out of your system. My Advise: Buy an aftermarkey cooler and get your cpu running at least to 3.0Ghz, but shoot for 3.4Ghz. This will almost guarantee you that you are not cpu bound. Also, pick up some new memory, DDR2 memory is so dam cheap these days, there is no better time to get a new pair. Get at least DDR2800 but if you want to go higher be my guest. And lastly, overclock the **** out of your GTX, you should be able to come near Ultra speeds if you are patient, try using ATI tool and test out how high you can get. If you do all these things than imo you can expect to rape the **** out of assasins creed - Annisman


Not trying to be funny but there are games out there that you just plain and simple cant max out, yes they are few and far between but to be honest i dont think the brute force approach way is always the best way to go. A lot of people and im including enthusiasts here dont bother tweaking there hardware at much more than the most basic level in the control panel. There are so many differentials that its not sensible to go into them all here. My point is that without some sort of optimisation to see what sort of results illusionx can get its a bit cavalier to start throwing money at a rig.
Im not saying your wrong either just conflicting views on how to go about things, personally i wouldnt update or worry about the performance of a component based on bad results in one game.
To illusionx,
Just want to be clear im not saying what annisman is suggesting is a bad idea, infact far from it if you have the funds and feel confident overclocking then its almost silly not to upgrade the ram and get that aftermarket cooler and aim for the sky. All your other games will benefit also. Dont over look the power supply though make sure it can give you the extra juice you will need for the overclocking.
Check out the overclocking section for tips on your overclocking if needed and good luck with what ever you decide to do. :) 
mactronix
April 12, 2008 6:06:33 PM

thanks a lot for your post annisman I was starting to think that buying a 9800GX2 is a must. So this is what should I do:
- buy that aftermarket cooler and try to get my E6600 at 3.4 GHZ
but do I need to buy new memories first? 2x2GB Corsair memories maybe
or it is not mandatory to buy new mems.
Also, about overclocking the videocard. - I am pretty worried because one day I started to get artifacts and get the game to crash (stock speeds), therefore I opened the case, the videoc was very hot. I cleaned its cooler a little and then I had no crashing problems. What would happen if I actually overclock?
*later edit - I have an ASUS 500W power supply.
Also what do you moster-computer owners use? Vista x64?
April 12, 2008 6:40:53 PM

i have a 8800gtx and i play crysis all at highest settings 8x aa at those frame rates and i doubt that game is as taxing as crysis, buy a cheap after market cooler clock it to around 3.4 and you will have much better frame rates. Your memory should be fine. overclocking your video card gives very little gain maybe 2-5 frames on the highest overclock you could do on the stock cooler. the only thing you should worry about is your power supply when overclocking. The 8800 gtx is a great card no reason to upgrade to the 9800gx2 it would be better to sli them.
April 12, 2008 7:34:01 PM

R u playing it on XP or VISTA? Every game of mine i have played on my vista system system has less FPS than on my XP system.
April 12, 2008 7:39:47 PM

I am playing on Vista Ultimate 64 bit
a b U Graphics card
April 13, 2008 5:55:06 PM

Keep an eye on here http://www.tweakguides.com/ Heres what hes saying "Just a heads-up that as promised, I'm working on an Assassin's Creed Tweak Guide, hopefully for release within the next week. The game isn't immensely tweakable given it's a console port, however there are still enough options and tweaks worth covering in a guide, so stay tuned."


a b U Graphics card
April 13, 2008 6:41:15 PM

illusionx said:
will this cpu cooler suffice for the 3.4 GHZ target?



http://www.intend.ro/index.php?main_page=product_info&c...
*link fixed




Hmmm, I've never seen this cooler so I don't know. Generally, I would say that if you spend over 30-40 USD then you can expect to get to 3.4Ghz. I am using a Zalman 9700 which is a bit more expensive.
April 14, 2008 6:17:44 PM

I may get a CPU cooler in a few days.
Anyway another weird thing I found moments ago, maybe you guys, especially 8800 owners can enlighten me.
Look:



Is it normal? Should I be worried? It is not idle temperature as Assasins creed is running as a window or something, not really alt tabbed.
April 14, 2008 6:26:29 PM

I have AC running on a 3.2ghz (3.4ghz with mild overclock, as far as I can get it to go...) Athlon64 X2 6400+. My G15 readout shows both cores to be swamped almost the entire time in the game. It seems to be really, really CPU-heavy...
April 15, 2008 1:50:04 PM

Can please anyone tell me if the 8800 GTX's 100 *C load temperature is normal? maybe it's slowing itself down and I get poorer performance? I have attached a screenshot in the previous post.
April 15, 2008 2:44:14 PM

Try taking the side panel off of your case and pointing a box fan at it. See if the temp goes down. Im not a GTX owner but that seems high to me.. I could be wrong though.
a b U Graphics card
April 15, 2008 3:19:26 PM

try usig rivatuner (if it works on vista) to log temps whilst playing. I'd say 100C is not good, although when I queried very high temps with nvidia on my 6600GT, thier response was that if it is in the green or orange on their old colour coding for temps on control panel graphs then they think its ok. I was hitting high 90's at that time.
April 15, 2008 4:08:58 PM

I have 8800gtx and i max out at 85C gaming(54C idle) , but that is after i put a fan in side of my case blowing directly over the card (with speed control for when I'm not gaming). I did this when i first got card 6mths ago as i had read some nvidia techies comments that running at 100C and over was too hot.
April 15, 2008 4:33:27 PM

I have an 8800GT and I maxed everything out (minus AA, since I must be blind because I cant tell any difference) and I never dip below 33 fps in AC, but I am running in XP dx9 and not dx10.

Great game though.
April 15, 2008 5:05:15 PM

If you are getting 100C then you need to turn of your computer and think about air flow and buy some fans. I have never hit that high on mine the highest I have ever hit was around the same and that was because i resetted the stock heat sink and it was not touching the the heat spreader. That could be your problem perfromance wise it could be throttling back. get a 120mm fan and blow it right on the heatsink make sure your room temp is nice and cool and see if that helps with gaming at all.
April 15, 2008 5:11:24 PM

illusionx said:
Can please anyone tell me if the 8800 GTX's 100 *C load temperature is normal? maybe it's slowing itself down and I get poorer performance? I have attached a screenshot in the previous post.


Mercy thats a hot one.

get some circulation in that case with good 120mm fans, preferably one or two sucking cool air on the side on to your card(s) and a couple sucking the hot air out. Use RivaTuner and set your card fan speed to 100%.

I have two GTX's and they both idle 52C and maxed out playing anything they crawl to 69C after an hour or so and might break 70C on a warm day, plus they are OC'ed.
April 15, 2008 5:21:03 PM

tsd16 said:
I have an 8800GT and I maxed everything out (minus AA, since I must be blind because I cant tell any difference) and I never dip below 33 fps in AC, but I am running in XP dx9 and not dx10.

Great game though.

Same, though resolution ticked down one. And also DX9 XP. Maybe the game just doesn't like Crossfire, which makes perfect sense. Shouldn't be beaten by one piddly 8800GT =P
April 15, 2008 5:24:28 PM

mactronix said:
Assassin's creed is a brand new release and your GTX is how old ? Im sorry but i think you need to lower your expectations. Mactronix


Whatever dude. A GTX is every bit as powerful as any new top of the line 9XXX anything. A 8800GTX will even overclock beyond the specs of an Ultra, making it an Ultra-Ultra. Now try and tell us an Ultra is slow and old also? :pfff: 
April 15, 2008 5:38:59 PM

+1 ^^^^^^^^
April 15, 2008 5:41:52 PM

Try this cooler instead, easier to install and grab some of the Artic Silver 5 thermal paste to cool the 6600. My old 6600 was at 3.2 for the year or so I had it.

http://www.intend.ro/index.php?main_page=product_info&c...

Go to the stickied posts in the forum section on overclocking, and follow the guides there. Folks have done your footwork for you.

The GTX is too hot. Mine are watercooled, and stay at 54ish loaded. I had an aftermarket Accelero or Thermaltake cooler on there to keep the original 90c load down in the upper 70's.
a b U Graphics card
April 15, 2008 6:57:18 PM

illusionx said:
What is my bottleneck? should I over clock the CPU(if so what do I need to buy and what products do you recommend)? are the memories good enough? Change the CPU to quad?
Please advise me on how can I get better performance on max settings and that resolution.
Thanks.


I got my E6600 to 3.0 GHz with the stock cooler and was able to undervolt it from stock voltage (1.32 v - ??) to 1.21 volts. Stable after a 24 hour Orthos run. A $25 Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro got me to 3.3 GHz easily.

Benchmarking with 3DMark 05 showed that graphic performance stopped scaling upward with CPU speed at around 3.1 - 3.2 GHz. That seems to suggest that anything below 3.0 GHz was bottlenecking my 640 MB G80 GTS.

At 3.3 GHz, your FSB frequency will be 367 MHz. DDR2-800 RAM is fast enough to keep up.
April 15, 2008 9:17:37 PM

Thanks a lot guys for the information.
I am going to try the Tuniq Tower 120 I think and aim for the 3.4 Ghz.
Also about the high 8800 GTX temperature I will try to improve the airflow inside the case. I need your help to tell me what kind of fan do I need to install there (check out the attached pictures):





I also know that some rewiring is mandatory.
April 15, 2008 11:48:26 PM

illusionx said:
Thanks a lot guys for the information.
I am going to try the Tuniq Tower 120 I think and aim for the 3.4 Ghz.
Also about the high 8800 GTX temperature I will try to improve the airflow inside the case. I need your help to tell me what kind of fan do I need to install there (check out the attached pictures):
I also know that some rewiring is mandatory.


As long as you don't mind a little extra noise, personally I don't care, just google for a high CFM 120mm Fans. I have three Antec blue 120mm fans inside my case(side door-air in, front bottom-air in and back middle-air out, 1Kw PS helps with air out also) set to high mode (bout 65CFM/ea)and two 120mm Aerocool Xtremeturbine models on my dual radiator for the H2O cooler on high (bout 90CFM/ea). Really not all that loud.

bout the wiring, I wasn't going to say anything bout since you mentioned it, cleaning it up would help.
April 17, 2008 5:10:13 PM

I have ordered a Tuniq Tower 120 CPU cooler and the case fan in the webpage to mount in front of the videocard as displayed in the attachements of the previous post.
http://www.pcgarage.ro/ventilatoare-luminoase/akasa/ak-...

It's 120 mm I hope it's good. Can I mount it in such way that it gets fresh air inside the case and blows it on the videocard? Or a case fan is specially designed to either get air from outside or get it from the inside. Or it depends on how I mount it?
April 17, 2008 9:06:17 PM

ok thanks romulus
about the fan question, can anyone help?
!