I honestly doubt that the radeon 4870 will be able to take down a 9800GTX. Looking at the specs over the 3870, it isn't that impressive. There doesn't seem to be anything new other than higher clock speeds, and more parts. 320-480 shaders doesnt seem that big, seeing as how 4 out of every 5 shader is useless. so 480/5=96 "real" SPs. I'll have to see these cards before I believe it. The GT200 will likely have around 192 shaders, which is really good, considering the architechture. Anyway this card will be very big, power hungry, hot, maybe even worse than the 2900XT. It might even be inefficient like it too. They will probably release a mabufacturing tech revision with 55-45 nm processes. Kinda like G80-G92. We all know how hot G80 is.