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Radeon 4800 series chips ahead of schedule- shipping to partners

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April 22, 2008 4:29:00 AM

Toms posted this about 10:30 CST/DST

This is good news as I have put off buying an HD3870x2

Mountain House (CA) – Unlike the ATI that we knew before, it appears that AMD’s graphics division is running perfectly these days – and ahead of deadlines. Even though the graphics unit has posted an $8 million loss in the first quarter of this year – in an effort to improve market share rather than average selling prices - the graphics business is making progress: We hear the company has struck gold with the RV770 and will be bring the chip to market earlier than expected.

AMD’s next graphics cards are being prepared for launch: During the Q1 earnings call, president and chief operating officer Dirk Meyer stated that the company will roll out a significant number of products in May and our sources now confirmed that the introductions will include desktop and mobile (M88) graphics parts.


Read more here>>> http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-radeon-4800,5213.h...
April 22, 2008 4:49:13 AM

I can't wait to see benchmarks. I just bought a 9600 but I want to see technology improve a lot before my Nehalem build sometime next year :] Considering I just hooked myself on Crysis, lol
April 22, 2008 4:54:17 AM

I am most interested in the 10 watts @ idle on the new card.
If the claim is true, Power consumption comparison of the ATI and NVIDIA cards will make NVIDIA's solution... well,... not-so-"Green".

*Edit*
In the USA, a KWH is around 9 cents depending on where you live (and time of day, etc). A 100 watt light bulb running 24/7 for a month would cost you roughly
((24x100X30)/1000)X.09 = $6.48, or $77 per year.

Assuming an Idle power difference of 100 watts, you can buy a new $150 mainstream video card every 2 years from just the electricity cost savings!!
a b U Graphics card
April 22, 2008 4:58:11 AM

Im a happy Nvidia owner but I do hope that the 4000 series AMD cards kick some green butt for the next year and a half to boost sales and get them out of the red.

Im with you chris on wanting things to improve as much as possible. This is good for everyone and we are starting to become overdue for a good release.
April 22, 2008 4:58:43 AM

I'm glad I waited on my build now. I'm curious to see how the RV770 will perform. Specifically if the 4870 will outperform most if not all of nvidia's offerings! What are yalls thoughts on it?
April 22, 2008 5:23:18 AM

i dont think ati can produce a card that idles at 11w. thats just so low, i mean really low.
i hope ati will continue to dearly support crossfire and i myself will be interested in a 4850 cfx with my current 3870x2.

but i do hope ati does well because it will keep amd from going under.
a b U Graphics card
April 22, 2008 5:30:46 AM

quanger said:
i hope ati will continue to dearly support crossfire and i myself will be interested in a 4850 cfx with my current 3870x2.



Wouldnt that slow down the 4850 to the speed of the 3870X2?
a c 358 U Graphics card
April 22, 2008 5:40:14 AM

densetsu612 said:
I am most interested in the 10 watts @ idle on the new card.
If the claim is true, Power consumption comparison of the ATI and NVIDIA cards will make NVIDIA's solution... well,... not-so-"Green".

*Edit*
In the USA, a KWH is around 9 cents depending on where you live (and time of day, etc). A 100 watt light bulb running 24/7 for a month would cost you roughly
((24x100X30)/1000)X.09 = $6.48, or $77 per year.

Assuming an Idle power difference of 100 watts, you can buy a new $150 mainstream video card every 2 years from just the electricity cost savings!!



Damn, I wish I was only paying $0.09 per KWH. That's half of what I pay.
a c 358 U Graphics card
April 22, 2008 5:43:28 AM

quanger said:
i dont think ati can produce a card that idles at 11w. thats just so low, i mean really low.



Sure it's possible, as long as the GPU can shut down the 3D acceleration parts of itself when not in use, lower the clockspeed / mem speed and drop the voltages too.
April 22, 2008 5:50:19 AM

englandr753 said:
Wouldnt that slow down the 4850 to the speed of the 3870X2?


its clock identicle to the 3870x2's so technically it wouldnt slow it down. i am interested in how well it scales.

(3870x2 + 4850) vs (3870x2 + 3870)

If there is no difference then i would obviously go with a 3870 which is a no brainer. I can clock the 3870 to 850/1800 so that it matches the 3870x2's clock.
April 22, 2008 6:08:40 AM

I definitely plan on getting a 4870 this fall. Then I can put the 3870x2 in a spare gaming PC because not every game supports dual GPU's all that well.

I'm still trying to figure out if there's a problem with my MSI 3870x2. GPU-Z reads its the first GPU as 421/421 and the second as 421/850, with the memory at 901. The older CCC read it the same. Catalyst 8.4 doesn't seem to have Overdrive in the list for my supposedly factory overclocked card.

So, I know the GPU clocks down when not in 3D mode, that accounts for the 421, but shouldn't both GPU's read 421/850? I'm wondering if I have a bad card with one GPU failing to clock adequately. My benchmarks seem a bit lower than what I've seen on review sites.

So, do I have a defective card that's actually doing Crossfire at 421 megahertz per GPU? Which GPU does it use when Crossfire's not supported? The 421 or the 850. It seems fast to me regardless, but my prior card was a 7600gs so even an underclocked 3870 would seem fast.

At any rate, I think I'll send this back for warranty replacement when I can afford to get a 4870. Then, when I'm sure I have a good 3870x2 that's 850 with each GPU, it can go in the other gaming PC.

If I do decide on CrossfireX when I get a Deneb and a new board next holiday season, a 3870x2 and a 4850 would be clocked the same except for memory, though it's the 4870 that Nordic Hardware said was as fast as a 3870x2.
April 22, 2008 6:16:41 AM

i would think most of not, all future games will support multi gpu cards. its the wave of the future :) 

April 22, 2008 6:34:57 AM

You cant predict where the future will be especially for the technology sector. I really hope that the 4870 will igve me a reason to ditch my 8800GT, but from the supposed 50% increase i heard, i might stick with the GT and keep waiting. That 4870 better perform better than everything out today if ATI really struck gold. RV770 was meant to compete with GT200/G100, so i guess that means that it should breeze by the 9800GTX and the GX2 right, it better, 480SPs aint no joke, although technically only a fraction of those are 'real' shaders.
April 22, 2008 8:22:55 AM

DarthPiggie said:
RV770 was meant to compete with GT200/G100, so i guess that means that it should breeze by the 9800GTX and the GX2 right, it better, 480SPs aint no joke, although technically only a fraction of those are 'real' shaders.

But look what difference those SP's and DX10.1 seem to do in Assassins Creed...
If that's how things are looking in the future, I'm liking where things are going!
If AMD can get an early ship on the 4xxx's, that could really hurt Nvidia, will be interesting to see what happens :D 
April 22, 2008 9:03:07 AM

This could liven things up, hope for something well and truelly beating the antiquated GTX and ultras in single gpu mode... Would be nice to finally let my gtx's retire to my kids computers...

Lets hope its more than hype and a new a coat of paint on the old chips...
April 22, 2008 12:13:19 PM

LukeBird said:
If AMD can get an early ship on the 4xxx's, that could really hurt Nvidia, will be interesting to see what happens :D 


well........hope the prices dont get inflated like it happend at the release of 8800GT :hello: 
April 22, 2008 12:32:09 PM

area61 said:
well........hope the prices dont get inflated like it happend at the release of 8800GT :hello: 

I'm sure they will be, retailers will always try and make a quick buck on the newest stuff... :sarcastic: 
April 22, 2008 3:10:20 PM

why hasnt any chinese sites comeup with a early review?
a b U Graphics card
April 22, 2008 3:24:36 PM

yipsl said:
I definitely plan on getting a 4870 this fall. Then I can put the 3870x2 in a spare gaming PC because not every game supports dual GPU's all that well.

I'm still trying to figure out if there's a problem with my MSI 3870x2. GPU-Z reads its the first GPU as 421/421 and the second as 421/850, with the memory at 901. The older CCC read it the same. Catalyst 8.4 doesn't seem to have Overdrive in the list for my supposedly factory overclocked card.

So, I know the GPU clocks down when not in 3D mode, that accounts for the 421, but shouldn't both GPU's read 421/850? I'm wondering if I have a bad card with one GPU failing to clock adequately. My benchmarks seem a bit lower than what I've seen on review sites.

So, do I have a defective card that's actually doing Crossfire at 421 megahertz per GPU? Which GPU does it use when Crossfire's not supported? The 421 or the 850. It seems fast to me regardless, but my prior card was a 7600gs so even an underclocked 3870 would seem fast.

At any rate, I think I'll send this back for warranty replacement when I can afford to get a 4870. Then, when I'm sure I have a good 3870x2 that's 850 with each GPU, it can go in the other gaming PC.

If I do decide on CrossfireX when I get a Deneb and a new board next holiday season, a 3870x2 and a 4850 would be clocked the same except for memory, though it's the 4870 that Nordic Hardware said was as fast as a 3870x2.
The 421 clock has something to do with what the first card cab actually do, and in 2D its doing 421, so the other card has to clock down to it. It clocks up in 3D mode, and the second card follows.Im interested in the MCM that supposed to be coming out, and may be the "thunder" rumors weve been hearing about. It allows a 2chip (X2) to share the memory within each card, so no mirroring of memory. So with this, when you have a say 4870 with 1 gig memory, both chips will have access to all 1 gig. This should do 2 things. Speed up the process (how well, guess we will soon find out) and makes for a cheaper, cleaner product
April 22, 2008 3:54:40 PM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
The 421 clock has something to do with what the first card cab actually do, and in 2D its doing 421, so the other card has to clock down to it. It clocks up in 3D mode, and the second card follows.Im interested in the MCM that supposed to be coming out, and may be the "thunder" rumors weve been hearing about. It allows a 2chip (X2) to share the memory within each card, so no mirroring of memory. So with this, when you have a say 4870 with 1 gig memory, both chips will have access to all 1 gig. This should do 2 things. Speed up the process (how well, guess we will soon find out) and makes for a cheaper, cleaner product



I'd originally thought that the 421 was clocked down for 2D, but shouldn't that be shown as 421/850 for both GPU's with 901 as the memory? Perhaps dual GPU cards are harder for GPU-Z, Rivatuner and even CCC Overdive to detail than single GPU or normal Crossfire setups?

Thunder seems like another step towards dual core GPU's and not simply dual GPU's. Sharing the same memory is good. The 3870x2's marketed as having a gig of RAM at 1800 megahertz, but it's really 512 for each GPU at 901.
a b U Graphics card
April 22, 2008 4:12:50 PM

Yeah, and I can see the confusion once this hits " I have a 3870x2 with 1 gig of memory, doesnt this mean I have a whole gig like the 4870s?" and then having to explain all this.... but be that as it may, if this works like the IMCs in cpus, then bandwidth will never ever be a problem, and youll actually have the gpu processors going full tilt and not ever waiting, and when you buy a card with 1 gig, itll all actually be used, instead of mirrored and wasted
April 22, 2008 7:17:38 PM

Your right its about time that 1GB is used. Im liking ATI's white paper offering. I also like the fact that you can use CF on most boards with 2+ PCI-E lanes, unlike Nvidia-chip exclusive SLI offering. WHy Nvidia is still allowed to do this is beyond me. Yea the 480 SP, 1050 mhz core, 4400mhz memory (effective) :ouch:  , 16 ROPs( :pfff:  ), 32 TMUs ( :pfff:  ), good for the most part.
a b U Graphics card
April 22, 2008 8:32:36 PM

Theres been a little confusion on whether the clocks would be 1Ghz or 850Mhz. I just saw a chart showing that the chip will run at 850Mhz, and the shaders at 1050Mhz. Thats why maybe this has been reported several ways. They can lock the shaders at +200Mhz, and it looks like thats what they did
April 22, 2008 9:12:21 PM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
Theres been a little confusion on whether the clocks would be 1Ghz or 850Mhz. I just saw a chart showing that the chip will run at 850Mhz, and the shaders at 1050Mhz. Thats why maybe this has been reported several ways. They can lock the shaders at +200Mhz, and it looks like thats what they did

Well the rumour is that it will be the first chip to breach the 1GHz core speed which will be interesting!
I just noticed one funny thing about this thread, if it was about ATi shipping late, it will be 4 pages long with Nvidia fanboys filling it with pointless comments... :sarcastic: 
Seems they can do nothing to but beat ATi down!
I'm personally looking forward to these cards.
I fancy a fast Phenom (at the moment, thinking 9750/9850 or faster if there are any coming...), but don't want an SLi board. I want a 790FX board ideally, so I can see a change to a 4870/4870X2(s) or such :) 
April 22, 2008 9:40:45 PM

screw SLI, CF scales better across the board, maybe with the exception of the 9600GT which scales really well. Anyone else dissapointed with ROPs and TMUs? 1GHz core will run very hot BTW, and consume lots of energy. It'll be a while before we move onto 45nm process, how much smaller can those things get, really? 60 femto meters? sheeesh
a c 84 U Graphics card
April 22, 2008 9:47:33 PM

area61 said:
why hasnt any chinese sites comeup with a early review?

here you go

http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7659.html
It's fake though :lol:  and I'd bet we'll see a couple more fake ones before anything reliable shows up.
April 22, 2008 9:53:29 PM

Schoolboy error on the GPU-Z screenie there! :lol: 
April 22, 2008 11:45:25 PM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
Theres been a little confusion on whether the clocks would be 1Ghz or 850Mhz. I just saw a chart showing that the chip will run at 850Mhz, and the shaders at 1050Mhz. Thats why maybe this has been reported several ways. They can lock the shaders at +200Mhz, and it looks like thats what they did


Nordic Hardware's original February report might be erroneous, but they reported the 4850 as 850 megahertz clock, and the 4870 and 4870x2 at 1050:

http://www.nordichardware.com/index.php?news=1&action=m...

But they recently reported they were off on some of the specifications, that the stock clocks for 4870 will be 900. Perhaps cherry picked factory overclocked GPU's will be higher?

http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7575.html

I can't see 4850 at 850 now. A 4870 might be a good match for a 3870x2 in CrossfireX after all. The only difference is the memory clocks and IMU.
a b U Graphics card
April 22, 2008 11:56:16 PM

quanger said:
i dont think ati can produce a card that idles at 11w. thats just so low, i mean really low.


Well they're already at 13.5W on the HD3850 according to Xbit labs, and 18.7W on the HD3870;
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/gainward...



So depends on whether they disable unused portions of the chip and also reduce the lane useage (which is something the do with powerplay onthe laptops since the original mobile X series).
10W seems very doable at idle, but I would expect that to probably double at peak 2D and not change that portion much from the previous generation.
a b U Graphics card
April 23, 2008 12:08:50 AM

jaguarskx said:
Damn, I wish I was only paying $0.09 per KWH. That's half of what I pay.


I could pay less (8c/ KWH in the land of oil) but I voluntarily pay a slight premium for wind generated 'Greenmax' power so it's about 9.5C/KWh for me.
a b U Graphics card
April 23, 2008 12:15:32 AM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
Im interested in the MCM that supposed to be coming out, and may be the "thunder" rumors weve been hearing about. It allows a 2chip (X2) to share the memory within each card, so no mirroring of memory. So with this, when you have a say 4870 with 1 gig memory, both chips will have access to all 1 gig. This should do 2 things. Speed up the process (how well, guess we will soon find out) and makes for a cheaper, cleaner product


Yeah it will be interesting to see how that works and if you look at the command and addressing schemes as outlined by that Qimonda link you posted the other day, it may offer some interesting insight into another potential for such a design.

all that is still ahead of the game, but it's nice to think of potential R700 configurations simply from from a design standpoint, not as anything to compare A vs B.
a b U Graphics card
April 23, 2008 1:30:16 AM

DarthPiggie said:
Anyone else dissapointed with ROPs and TMUs?


Not yet.
Not until I know the composition of the TMUs and what addressing and filtering unit sub numbers.
Also ROPs aren't as necessary for the HD series as they are currently composed, and how they will be used in DX10.1+ apps, the major concern with ROPs were AA and AF performance, and AF speed is easy, and AA speed is more shader bound, for the TMUs I would just prefer they improve ratios and also the number of FP32 pixels processed by each per clock, so raw ROP and TMU #s I don't care about so much as their composition.

Quote:
1GHz core will run very hot BTW, and consume lots of energy.


Not necessarily, it depends on leakage and how the power is used, alot of things make up power consumption. But a high transistor count plus speed almost guarantees it won't be sipping power without some serious good conducting chips, but whether or not that's more/less heat & power than the R600/G80 depends on alot of factors, not just speed.

Quote:
It'll be a while before we move onto 45nm process


It won't be that long, we're already at 45nm in the processors, and the GPUs have been at 55nm for a while. It depends mainly on how well TSMC does theri 45nm transition as to when the major VPU vendors go for that. Intel is definitely going 45nm for Larrabee.
a b U Graphics card
April 23, 2008 3:22:22 AM

Isnt TSMC soon to try out their 40nm?
April 23, 2008 4:44:42 AM

Indeed I also hope they also improve on the shader processor architechture as r600 (and variants) didnt fair too well because of the fact that only a few from each cluster did heavy duty work whereas in the G80( and variants), all the SPs were useful. I cant wait for benchmarks. Its almost May, the expected release month, so I hope to see some solid specs and benchmarks.
April 23, 2008 4:46:50 AM

Technology advances so fast. There has to be something to fix the fact that so much hardware ends up laying around doing nothing. Manufacturing companies should buy it from its consumers and recycle the parts or something. Im sick of having graphic cards lying around.
April 23, 2008 5:57:10 AM

My AMD stock wants this to be true.
April 23, 2008 12:59:02 PM

LukeBird said:
Well the rumour is that it will be the first chip to breach the 1GHz core speed which will be interesting!
I just noticed one funny thing about this thread, if it was about ATi shipping late, it will be 4 pages long with Nvidia fanboys filling it with pointless comments... :sarcastic: 
Seems they can do nothing to but beat ATi down!
I'm personally looking forward to these cards.
I fancy a fast Phenom (at the moment, thinking 9750/9850 or faster if there are any coming...), but don't want an SLi board. I want a 790FX board ideally, so I can see a change to a 4870/4870X2(s) or such :) 



looks like im not alone switching from intel to amd.im looking forward to get my spider platform ready and rolling in 3 months time.BTW you just gave a head shot to the nV fB :lol:  .LukeBird what mobo would you probably choose to run the 9850BE?
April 23, 2008 2:04:02 PM

area61 said:
looks like im not alone switching from intel to amd.im looking forward to get my spider platform ready and rolling in 3 months time.BTW you just gave a head shot to the nV fB :lol:  .LukeBird what mobo would you probably choose to run the 9850BE?

Aaah, but i'll be switching from AMD to errrrrr... AMD! :lol: 
I want one of the 790FX boards definitely, because if the 4xxx's are as good as rumoured, I think a 4870X2 or two may be in order! The 790FX is a fantastic chipset, expensive, yes, but it supports all I could need and more! :D 
April 23, 2008 3:16:57 PM

LukeBird said:
Aaah, but i'll be switching from AMD to errrrrr... AMD! :lol: 
I want one of the 790FX boards definitely, because if the 4xxx's are as good as rumoured, I think a 4870X2 or two may be in order! The 790FX is a fantastic chipset, expensive, yes, but it supports all I could need and more! :D 


hahaha..........even though i own intel proc, ive been an AMD fan all along.i took a long decision to get intel.but quadiees,for the pooriees,hell who wont want one :ange: 
April 23, 2008 3:24:14 PM

area61 said:
hahaha..........even though i own intel proc, ive been an AMD fan all along.i took a long decision to get intel.but quadiees,for the pooriees,hell who wont want one :ange: 

:lol: 
Well I have upgradeitis, so a 9850BE and my first delve into OCing looks like fun.
The 790FX is rumoured to be one of the best chipsets out there and is my choice as I really don't want to go AM2+ & SLi!
April 23, 2008 3:35:13 PM

LukeBird said:
:lol: 
Well I have upgradeitis, so a 9850BE and my first delve into OCing looks like fun.
The 790FX is rumoured to be one of the best chipsets out there and is my choice as I really don't want to go AM2+ & SLi!


lol 790 is the new king of chipsets.id stick to spider platform to be future proof.that way i can hold upgrading for about 3 to 4 years! are you going to get spider as well?
April 23, 2008 4:48:02 PM

area61 said:
lol 790 is the new king of chipsets.id stick to spider platform to be future proof.that way i can hold upgrading for about 3 to 4 years! are you going to get spider as well?

Almost certainly, but not because of the excellent marketing!
I'm going that way, because I like AMD processors and the ATi cards are looking nice which ties in nicely with my desire to get away from an SLi board.
Never had an ATi card either, so that'll be something new :) 
Although I have a 3870 in my newest work machine and it seems nice enough :D 
April 23, 2008 4:54:47 PM

ive benn using Ati all my life.but my first card was the TNT RIVA 64
April 23, 2008 5:39:51 PM

area61 said:
ive benn using Ati all my life.but my first card was the TNT RIVA 64

Aaah well I was late to the 'building PCs myself' party, my first build was the one before this and was a 6800GS 256mb. :D 
But yeah, next build is looking like a Phenom prob 9850BE, Asus 790FX board, 8Gb 1066 RAM and a 4870(s)/4870X2(s)
a b U Graphics card
April 23, 2008 6:28:39 PM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
Isnt TSMC soon to try out their 40nm?


Yeah but I'm talking about shipping parts, 40nm is still in the early phase where it's targeted mostly at things like memory and low frequency high density chips
45nm is expected sometime this year (but IMO for the lower end and mobile parts.
40nm is just starting testing, so product built on the process likely won't arrive until the end of the year around Xmas, or depending on yields and process success may even be 2009.

Here's Xbit's recent article on the two 40nm processes they're testing 40LP (for small devices) and 40G (for CPUs / GPUs);
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/other/display/200803242150...

Looks promising, but I would expect 40LP to get useable yields first and then they would tweak 40G to give the high frequencies for processors.

But if it was just launched now it's usually 9-18months until we see any of the first fast processor products depending alot on if there are any issues (similar to the 80nm HS problems). Usually we would se something like a chipset or small part first before something as complex as a VPU, they may come quick, but usually the very very first are memory and simpl ICs.
a b U Graphics card
April 23, 2008 7:33:50 PM

Thanks for that. I like the half node approach, to me its like fine tuning. Theres so many rumors on this card : 850 or 1Ghz, 32 TMUs or 16, 200Mhz or no new design/code etc. Im just hoping its worth all the hype when all is said and done. Im still predicting 10%+ over the Ultra, but who knows
April 23, 2008 8:23:39 PM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
Theres been a little confusion on whether the clocks would be 1Ghz or 850Mhz. I just saw a chart showing that the chip will run at 850Mhz, and the shaders at 1050Mhz. Thats why maybe this has been reported several ways. They can lock the shaders at +200Mhz, and it looks like thats what they did


The confusion is really the two memory types that will be used on the card. Do believe DDR3 and DDR5 (forgot actual names, too tired to look it up). One is a slow speed, the other extremely high.
I'm looking forward to it, hoping it will be much faster. It's been a LONG time (years) since waiting for a video card to actually perform much better then my 8800 card.
a b U Graphics card
April 23, 2008 8:37:10 PM

GDDR5 has several nice aspects to it, besides just higher clocks. Im looking forward to that implementation. If theyve corrected the "problems" with the r600, and upped the clock speeds, and the shaders and etc Zx2 etc, all thses things, then maybe we will actually see what the potential of this arch can do. Still hoping for the best
April 23, 2008 8:41:40 PM

We all are jaydeejohn, cuz WE all wondered why the HD2900XT didn't massacre the G80. Maybe this is it? Nvidia is on pace to freefall, the bigger they are the harder they fall.
a b U Graphics card
April 23, 2008 9:00:45 PM

Last time out, ATI was outed, anything from AMD was. I think that hurt them. This time will be different. Thats why all this unknown is happening.
!