Hello people

For the last week, i go tin Toms Hardware Forums. Been a read of THC for a few year now, and ive noticed one thing. Why do people avoid server hardware like the plague ? The Top OCer boards are nice and dandy, but they lack the fire power server hardware has. Memory doesnt influenciate the Rigs perfomance much ( we are talking of the diferent DD2 modules) but even VS DDR3 the stability of ECC registered RAM. Sata Hardisk can be used, like top notch PSUs. OCers Cases are more than fitting.

So, why, considerating the cost of top notch OC Gear, people run away from server hardware ? Really. Its lack of knowledge ? Lack of stock ? I'm pretty much expecting to be flamed on this post, mainly because ill go against the "general" idea of the forums on this post. Lets try to make a nice.....gaming machine. With the amount of money your dumping, that wont be hard. I will not put values here because my main goal is to open the eyes of power gamers/users to "other" kind of hardware. Usually much more stable, lasts for much more, and has much more potential in terms of RAW power. And also, for the RAW power they provide, they are much power "Green". This is hardware made for server use, and its very sensitive in power consumption.

Mobo:

Everything you will ever need. 2x Sckt 771, DDr2 16 memory sockets , 2x PCIe , 2GB lan Ports. Intel Skulltrail is a baby compared to this monster.

http://www.tyan.com/product_board_detail.aspx?pid=560

Quick Edit:
Here is 2 good example of cheaper - more fitting Mobos from asus:

Asus L1N64-SLI WS/B ( AMD in the server market has a good cut of them market, if your a intel fan don't troll this)
http://www.asus.com/products.aspx? [...] odelmenu=1

Asus Z7S WS ( Intel this one, AMD Fans dont troll please)
http://www.asus.com/products.aspx? [...] odelmenu=1

Ram

Although configurating ram to optimum perfomance can be a nice idea, this a part of a computer i dont liek to mess around with much. They are fairly fragile and fairly unreliable when pushed above spec. A and OC can damage your OS, lower your FPS and total computer performance. When working with ECC RAM youll never go back. Mainly if you have the money for it. The Brand doesnt matter much, there isnt BAD ECC Registered RAM. The Board supported DDR 800Mhz, so it should be fine.

CPU

Xeon/Opteron. Well, any of this will do. What will determine the Brand will be more the Board that you pick than the CPU. In this case i choose a Intel Board. Once you got Opteron/Xeon youll miss them if you come back to normal hardware. They are much more stable and in some operations they'll just do it without breaking a sweat. The top dogs of server/workstations are usually extremely expensive (much more than the the current EEs), but the bottom tiers are in a decent price range. Intel SkullTrail is on the 4000$ Mark, so you can buy your top dog Xeon withing that price, that will just chew and spit your current EE Editions. Would love to see more benchmarks on server hardware, but unfortunely, there isn't much. And i cant do it on already working hardware. Hes needed working like it is now. I ask THG help here.

HDD.

You can plug in you normal SATA HDD. Of course you can buy SAS, or mount whatever raid you heart desire. In that Tyan Mobo.

VGAs.

You can plug whatever PCIe GPus there. Dunno if the lowest/weaker Xeon for this board will be a bottleneck. That i leave for more GPUs experienced posters here at THG Forums. They will be supported by ECC Registered so, i believe they WILL perform better with DDR-800 ECC Registered. From what ive tested myself, ECC ram has usually a bigger impact than i could preview.

PSUs.

Now here you wont have much problem. Just read the Mobo specs. At this levels there aren't many choices and none of them are bad. None of them are cheap as well. I leave this for more consideration.

Cases

Unless its a Mobo for a blade server, a good case ( like most of the links i check here) is more than enough.

So, considering the money some power users spend, why not server hardware ?

Marketing can be an interesting thing.
There's nothing wrong with using the Tyan board you referenced as a the basis for a fine workstation.
Most of the folks here are computer enthusiasts, focused on either overclocking or gaming, or both.
Gaming nuts will prefer a pair (or more) PCI-Ex16 slots. The Tyan has one x16 and one x8.
Overclockers will not be happy with any server board's BIOS.
FB-Dimms are more reliable, but slower than unbuffered memory.
Higher end "consumer" boards use server quality electrical components, (caps, chokes, regulators, etc...), and you pay for these.
Dollar for dollar, sticking with equipment marketed for it's purpose tends to give better value and overall better satisfaction. That's the best explaination I have...

Server equipment still offers less bang for the buck compared to higher end mainstream desktop hardware. It's only better valued compared to the "extreme" versions that go at extreme prices for little performance gain, like those "extreme" quad core cpus for $1k+. You can get 2 LGA771 45nm quads and a server motherboard for octo-core solution at that price. But then again, people who buy those "extreme" gear aren't bright enough to figure it out anyway. And the rest of us prefer better values with higher end mainstream desktop hardware.

Bear in mind that registered memory and ECC memory are independent technologies. "Registered" memory is connected to the memory bus through a tri-state buffer. When a module is not being accessed, the buffer switches to a high-impedance state, which effectively disconnects the module from the bus to decrease loading.

If you want to use ECC RAM on a consumer motherboard, registered RAM is unnecessary and unbuffered ECC should be the first choice, as it is substantially cheaper.

it performs slower than non ECC RAM.

ECC's impact on performance is negligible, on the order of 2% to 4%. Registered RAM requires an extra clock cycle to enable the buffer, which decreases performance a bit more.

You touched a nice soft spot there Newf. ECC Registered exists because its faster to have evrything registered in case of a error (small example) than to re do the whole operation. If unbuffered DIMM was faster, server/workstation market would have embraced it for a long time. Computers generate loads of errors, they can just solve it, and move on. Ofc there is diferent aproaches to everything in life.

About the Bios of that server board, well, you might have a point there. but will its stability offer more performance than a OCed one ? Probably so, but would love to see some charts aswell.

The 16x/8x PCIe slots. There are server/workstation boards with 16x/16x. I should picked another i know. Im gonna search a bit more.

@Dagger

a Octo Xeon can be pretty cheap. you can get 4Core Xeons at new egg for 200$. A piece. For the rest, i agree.

Money would be the key thing.

The thing is im making this post, because money is the key thing. This mobo i made an example is a very expensive one. Even power users don't make half the use of it. Of course are there loads of variety. After a value, its preferable to go for server hardware, in my humble opinion. And for the values of hardware ive seen circulating that value is easly achieved.

In terms of server/workstation boards, Asus isn't the top dog. A bit far from it. Although their boards are very good as we all know.

Here is 2 good example of cheaper - more fitting Mobos from asus:

Asus L1N64-SLI WS/B ( AMD in the server market has a good cut of them market, if your a intel fan don't troll this)
http://www.asus.com/products.aspx? [...] odelmenu=1

Asus Z7S WS ( Intel this one, AMD Fans dont troll please)
http://www.asus.com/products.aspx? [...] odelmenu=1

I am a tyan fan, when money is no object you can land a board that has any combinaton of processors.

Server board considerations :
The PCI-e slots do not necessarily support SLI or crossfire like skulltrail, check first.
Case is huge. SSI EEB boards take up every inch of the real estate available. Look up Pedestal server cases and SSI EEB. My typical solution is to go with a rackmount/pedestal convertible case. You will find the length of those cases is 2-3 feet, not easy to work with for desk space.
FBDIMMS take more power, generate more heat and are a bit slower, as well as far more expensive.
A board like this is made for server cooling. A 3U chassis Will have a row of fans in front and back on every device, and will spin full bore constantly = which is why you can buy a xeon with a passive heatsink.
The notes on that board state there are proprietary mounting holes so you need to keep that in mind as well.

The power supply market has boomed, but you still need to shop around. EPS12V/SSI (24+8+4+4 pin) power connectors (8 pin atx is not pci-e). Dual power supplies, or Auxillary power will be necessary. /i would get a nice primary supply, then use AUX to drive video card and cooling.

THere are workstation boards that will do dual-quads well, but you will have downsides like video limitations. Wait to get a workstation board that supports dual Oct core, and you'll have an investment

To use your sig as an analogy, servers are big slow diesels that run reliably forever 24/7. Workstations are oriented less for I/O throughput and more for reliable (including error-free) speed. Consumer systems run gas engines way past redline and blow up from time to time... Any of these can be expensive but they have different engineering goals.
The 2 Asus boards you referenced would not be good choices against competing enthusiast boards when they were released. Few bought them.

You just missed my last post about the 2 Asus models. Already edited my original post so they will be on consideration. Thanks for the post, its rare to meet another Tyan fan. The Asus Ones are more, on a "normal" budget.

@Newf

I bought a PC-DL Deluxe from Asus a long time ago with a 2x2.4GHz (OCed to 2.8 stable) Xeon HT. Most my "enthusiast" friend were burying their money on 3.4 Prescotts. I got a much better system at the time. Few bought them, because they weren't probably Hyped enough. Hype isn't necessarily a good thing. This post was just to create discussion about server hardware being brought more to mainstream, and i thank your writings. Love the analogy btw.

PS: My car is a 1988 Model.