I'm building my first machine and I'm pretty boggled by all the choices of dual-core cpus at this point. I want to spend less than $80 (used ok) not incl heatsink. I was leaning toward the AMD x2 series but now I'm not sure the cheapest core 2 duos aren't better.
What's the story with L2 cache? What I do is mostly a) video editing b) multitrack audio with a lot of plugins c) still photo editing. From the benchmarks it looks like maybe the cache is not as big a deal for these things as for gaming??
Any recommendations / wisdom appreciated. I plan to experiment with oc'ing a bit but nothing over the top. My expectations are really modest because I'm doing this on an ancient AMD right now and I survive : )
You won't see a difference with cache in gaming. Where you'll commonly see a noticable improvement is in video editing and rendering projects. As bc pointed out, you need to post your system specs (motherboard make/model, cpu model, RAM type/speed, Video AGP/PCI/PCIe/integrated, etc.). You may just need a new(used) CPU if you have a decent S939 system.
If not, then I'd say for audio and photo editing, an x2 would do fine. Since you're also editing video and overclocking, I think Intel is probably the better route.
You should be able to find a used E6600 in your price range, if not then an E6400 or E6300. All of which should be easily overclocked to 2.7-3.0GHz (much higher if you use decent cooling). I'd try to get the E6600 if at all possible since it has 4MB of L2 cache as opposed to 2MB on the others. Just don't confuse the E6600 with a Q6600 - the Q is a quadcore, and if you can find one for $80 or less, let me know - I'll take 10.
If you're also buying the motherboard used, look for one based on the 965 or 975 chipset, preferably by ASUS or Gigabyte.
Finally, by "an ancient AMD", I am assuming you still are using DDR RAM, which means you'll have to upgrade to DDR2 no matter if you're going Intel or AMD. Don't get anything less than PC6400 (DDR2-800). Nowdays, it's the same price or cheaper (since it's the one normally put on sale) as slower RAM such as PC5300 (DDR2-667). Newer AMD CPUs need at least PC6400 or you will suffer a performance hit. The Intel CPUs can use the slower RAM without degrading the performance, but you'll want at least PC6400 to get a better and higher overclock.
You won't see a difference with cache in gaming. Where you'll commonly see a noticable improvement is in video editing and rendering projects.
I have to disagree. L2 cache is least important in video, photo, and audio editing/encoding. In games, L2 cache is very important. Look at the benchmarks for Celeron e1200. You'll see it score well in the encoding applications, and fail miserably in gaming, due to its small L2 cache.
In any build like this, the software is much more important than the hardware. I recommend not building anything until you come up with a list of software you plan to use for these audio/photo/video tasks. Then, you can build a system around the strengths of the software (e.g. movie maker can only use two cores on a cpu, so a quad core build that will use movie maker as one of the major applications will be a terrific waste of money).
Thanks for the reply. I will be building this from scratch thus the no posting of system info - I won't be in for quite $800 but yeah, new mobo, ram, etc. Just inviting opine on the cpus. Interesting distinction between amd & intel chips as far as 667 vs. 800 ram.
Looks like the lower-end core 2 duos are more affordable than I thought. Upgraded to a few 6850 systems from Prescotts at work and that was pretty steep, but seems like one can squeeze a lot of juice out of 21**s. But then, these have the lower cache, thus the question..
Firstly, I would stay away from Intel CPUs. For the two reasons:
I have been an AMD fan pretty much all my computer life :]
Whenever you upgrade your INTEL CPU, You have to upgrade your M/B also which is a tad silly.
For video / photo editing etc, (if price is your main worry) Something like the X2 4400+ which can be picked up for around £40 match with 2GB RAM, and youre good to go.
At this point the argument about upgrading Intel CPU and mobos is irrelevant since Socket T (LGA775) is at the end of it's life (assuming you buy a mobo with a current chipset). Intel's next CPU will require a whole new mobo.
Don't listen to fanboys, they tend to be blindly loyal to a particular brand regardless of performance. At this point in time if you think you can afford an Intel CPU then go for it. Intel has traditionally been and still is better than an comparable AMD Athlon X2 CPU. Play it safe and check out some benchmarks.
AMD Athlon X2 generally needs faster DDR2 800 to achieve it's full potential at stock speed, whereas a 45nm Intel C2D CPUs only need DDR2 667 RAM to achieve it's full potential at stock speed. Getting DDR2 800 RAM for Intel CPUs will allow you to overclock your CPU.
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Reply to jaguarskx
Firstly, I would stay away from Intel CPUs. For the two reasons:
I have been an AMD fan pretty much all my computer life :]
Whenever you upgrade your INTEL CPU, You have to upgrade your M/B also which is a tad silly.
For video / photo editing etc, (if price is your main worry) Something like the X2 4400+ which can be picked up for around £40 match with 2GB RAM, and youre good to go.
Firstly, being an AMD fan is no reason to recommend not to use Intel.
Secondly, AMD release different sockets that look identical but are still different, how's that any better?
I have to say though, I'm on the fence with this one...
In all probability you'll get more for your money going with a second hand AMD chip in this price range, you just need to be careful with buying used.
I wasnt saying that being a "fanboy" is the reason why you should choose it, I have used both AMD & Intel for different reasons, and i just PERSONALLY think that performance wise, and money wise, AMD is better.
I have to disagree. L2 cache is least important in video, photo, and audio editing/encoding. In games, L2 cache is very important. Look at the benchmarks for Celeron e1200. You'll see it score well in the encoding applications, and fail miserably in gaming, due to its small L2 cache.
I guess I could have worded that better - I was referring to the difference between the 4MB and 2MB C2Ds, where the 4MB grants just a 1 - 5% increase in gaming/general but a 7 - 10% increase in encoding/editing. I was thinking specifically of the E6X00 chips, as the OP said he was going to buy used, and I thought that the E6X00 series would probably be the best price/performance in the used market.
As far as the newer chips with the ridiculously small caches, such as the E1200, I agree with you completely.
Message edited by exit2dos on 05-19-2008 at 02:21:08 PM
I'm building my first machine and I'm pretty boggled by all the choices of dual-core cpus at this point. I want to spend less than $80 (used ok) not incl heatsink. I was leaning toward the AMD x2 series but now I'm not sure the cheapest core 2 duos aren't better.
What's the story with L2 cache? What I do is mostly a) video editing b) multitrack audio with a lot of plugins c) still photo editing. From the benchmarks it looks like maybe the cache is not as big a deal for these things as for gaming??
Any recommendations / wisdom appreciated. I plan to experiment with oc'ing a bit but nothing over the top. My expectations are really modest because I'm doing this on an ancient AMD right now and I survive : )
Looking at benchmarks, I am starting to think that the small L2 cache is my ticket to doing this economically, because it seems that video rendering (what I spend hours waiting for - ie exporting HDV to Quicktime movie) doesn't need it as much so those ridiculously lightweight intels are looking good.
I'm using Sony Vegas, Steinberg Nuendo, and Gimp Shop (which an open-source Photoshop) as my daily hammer-and-nails applications; all should take advantage of multi cores as far as I know.
AMD or Intel just like the choice of other products like formal dressing vs causal dressing or Racing CAR vs Deluxe CAR which depends on the owner's personal points of view on value. If talking about good performance system, Intel's system is always on the top at since Core 2 structure. I am not sure if my comment is eaxctly right but it would be AMD system is more likely budget based while Intel system is more likely performance based.
Forgot to mention, if you do choose AMD dont go for the X3 / X4 phenoms. There is a massive bug, its a TBL runtime error and you get big hang times. So until they fix this bug, Theyre Crap.
Thanks guys for the input. I decided to go for an E2180 that didn't break the bank at $50. I think with moderate oc'ing this should serve me well for a while. Truth be told, I wanted to go with the AMD "underdog" but the overclockability and bang-for-buck efficiency sealed the deal.
Looking at benchmarks, I am starting to think that the small L2 cache is my ticket to doing this economically, because it seems that video rendering (what I spend hours waiting for - ie exporting HDV to Quicktime movie) doesn't need it as much so those ridiculously lightweight intels are looking good.
I'm using Sony Vegas, Steinberg Nuendo, and Gimp Shop (which an open-source Photoshop) as my daily hammer-and-nails applications; all should take advantage of multi cores as far as I know.
I've heard rumahs (I don't use it so I can't tell yah) that if you purchased a legal copy of Vegas you are licensed to install on 3 computers. Check out ""network rendering service"" for Vegas whereby you may process across 2 or 3 rigs ....
Poppin' an X2 in the AMD rig would help you out there if you want to utilize the processing power of a 'render farm' ...
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