Hi Guys,

Well, I first posted my very first system build-related post in this section of the forums a few weeks ago asking about some of the larger boutiques and recommendations. You guys finally convinced me to build my own. Now I have blood coming from my ears. Does everyone building a new system (at least first time) drive themselves crazy trying to decide on things too or do I just need some professional help? *cry*

I've changed my mind so many times that most presidential candidates seem like saints! Most changes for the better as I learned more but I'm stuck on the most important two items (well 2 of 3).

My problem is that I'm a bit of a perfectionist and very analytical. So I've been enjoying all this research and _really_ learning what goes into those PC's I've been paying someone else to build for years.

The problem is that if you read enough boards and reviews, no motherboard/memory/CPU combo works, period! They are all broke! Joking aside, here is what I need:

1) I don't care about SLI as I prefer a very good/best single card
2) I have never OC'ed but never had a machine I could try it with
3) Stability and solid-functional design is all I really care about
4) I will likely be replacing most items in 1.5 years with the whole Nahalem and every new thing it brings with it since the changes are major and sexy

With the 780/790i problems and no need for SLI, I'm staying away from that.

Some of you suggested the P35 (Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L) since it is stable and well-tested and cheap. The DS3L board seems to be very popular and solid so I guess why not. It lacks eSata and firewire but hey (and the sight of that parallel port for some reason make me feel mildly violent).

But since I'm upgrading for the first time in 4 years, I want some sexiness too even if it costs more. X38 seemed appropriate. But I can't find a rock solid board other than I was thinking of going with the ASUS P5E3 Deluxe board since Tom's Hardware uses it as their 2008 board for their reference machine. I know this might not mean much but I need _something_ to give me confidence. (actually is it still their 2008 reference board on their reference machine?)

That said, I hear about how ASUS has gone downhill and their tech support is non-existant.

So here are my questions and THANK YOU for letting me ramble as I have no one in real life to listen to me (even my fiancee says if she hears me mumble anymore about system building, im sleeping with the poodle - and god I hate poodles):

1) What is a compatable 2gb x 2 (for 4gb kit) 1066 DDR2 ram I can use with the P35 should I wimp out and go with that board? I can't find anything listed as 'approved' - I don't want 800. Why? I don't know, I just need to feel like I'm making a decent leap forward!

2) For the X38, at least in my mind it would be nice with the E8400 that I get PCIE2.0 (I know it isnt the biggest deal) and DDR3 at 1333 target speed (I also know this isnt a super advantage) but I'm worried about the stability of a good X38/DDR3 board. Is the ASUS P5E3 Deluxe ok? If so, what is a good DDR3 1333 2gb x 2 (for 4gb kit) approved for use with that one?

BTW when I say approved, I know I can check with the board mfg. and find their list but 1) they are so dated and 2) never really list any of the performance/enthusiast ram for either DDR2 or DDR3.

Again, I am willing to pay more for peace of mind and stability. And yet it seems paying less and going P35 is the only way to guarantee any level of stability.

Damn you Crysis! Damn you to the nether regions! Or France.

Any help for the hampsters running around in my head please?

THANKS in advnace.

Well buddy,
I know the psychotic-ness going on in your head... I have experienced the same thing. TWICE! It doesn't go away, and in fact it gets worse once you build the rig because you tend to keep looking for better parts. It's a bad downward spiral that you are headed and all I can say is "get help!"

But let's work some of these bugs out in the mean time:

Mobo: why X38? You want something that's a year old? I would opt for X48... Why? Because it's new and improved X38. Also has better support for 45nm CPU.

I would opt for a solid set of DDR3 memory. Dont focus on the set's that are labeled "X38/X48 approved" that doesn't mean much at all. Yes you can go to manufacturer website and find out what memory your mobo supports but that really only matters with EPP (SLI ready) memory and 680i/7 series motherboards. You should be good with a nice low latency set of DDR3 memory preferably as fast as you can afford. I am a personal fan of OCZ... so I tend to recommend them a bit. But you decide who has the best warrant/support and find a set of low latency/high frequ memory that YOU LIKE!

Well, I know the X48 is the latest and greatest but unless Im missing something, until I can push 1600 on the FSB, I'm not going to miss anything.

I understand now what you mean about the memory. I didn't know that.

The problem I have sometimes is reading people's posts on things such as this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820220278

The comment about:

Other Thoughts: Oh its default clock speed isnt 1333, its 1066. You actually have to OC it to get it to its advertised speed. How lame is that?

So I realize sometimes people are bigger noobs than me and post things that are simply incorrect. Or is it?

I've heard to also be careful of 1066 DDR2 memory because it is really just 800?. I was debating:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820231166

...if I got DDR2.

Can anyone recommend a great set of DDR3 1333 4GB x 2?

Alright... Here is the full scoop about the 1600mhz fsb: Intel releases a motherboard that has support for 1600/1333 fsb. What this means is not that you have to have a cpu that is defaulted at 1600fsb. It means that you run the cpu "effectively" at 1600mhz fsb. Basically with my cpu (E8400) it is defaulted at 1333 fsb or 333mhz "quad pumped" so in order to run it "effectively" (meaning without overclocking) you would keep it at it's defaulted 1333mhz. Now when you overclock it on a motherboard that is 1333mhz you are overclocking the FSB. When you overclock it on a motherboard that has added support for 1600mhz and you overclock er to 1600mhz you are not stressing or overclocking the FSB of the motherboard... just the cpu. Which is essentially the same thing. So long story short... the added support or guarantee for 1600mhz is nice knowing that when you overclock that cpu to 1600mhz (3.6ghz for E8400/Q6600) you will know that your motherboard isn't causing instability.
This added benefit for 1600mhz increases the wall of the FSB (2100mhz for my 780i) thus allowing for a higher overclock on cpu's like the Q9450/Q9300.

Memory: yOu are right about DDR21066 being just nice batches of 800. Basically the manufacturer tests all the chips of memory that they produce and the real stable ones are tested at higher frequencies and thus marketed at 1066 or higher. Same goes for all memory being DDR or DDR3. You can essentially save your money by buying 800mhz memory with lower cas latency and timings and when you overclock or tweak you "loosen" up timings and increase frequ. Very simple once you understand.

If I were going to get a motherboard and memory set I would get this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813128330

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820227293

The memory offers very nice timings IMO... and the motherboard is an enthusiast motherboard... I tend to look to see if the motherboard is talked about on xtremesystems.org and has a discussion thread open... if it does I ask the guys what the think about the motherboad or just read posts... then if there seems to be a lot of people talking about this board I'll get it because of the support available. Plus it's nice to have someone to talk to you about your nice investment and how to get the most out of it. Mine has more than 2000 posts on that website.

Those are good choices, I believe. Remember, everything has its issues, and you won't see people coming out of the woodwork saying "My board works fine, just to let you know.".

The Gigabyte P35-DS3L is a nice board, but if you have the budget, go bigger. You'll get a more stable and easier overclock with a board that runs 1600 standard, and can overclock to 2000 reliably. My DS3L can do 1600, but that is beginning to push it.

With RAM, if your budget allows, go faster. While it may just be factory specified to go faster, you know it's reliable at those speeds, and will be more likely to reach even faster speeds.

Wow thanks hughyhunter and litlrabi.

Things make much more sense but once again, right when I think I have something figured out, I'm back to square one.

Part of why I was thinking of going with the cheapie board is not because of $$$ (I have the budget) but because it got great reviews, people were OCing the 8400 on it no problems, and the 1066 G.Skill seems to work fine on it.

I've never OC'ed before but never had a machine that could (used to use Dells).

So with everyone OCing their 8400's on the DS3L, what you are saying is that now the native 1333 chip, since OC'ed, is pushing the FSB higher too in effect. But since that board is only rated as 1333 max FSB, will that cause greater instability?

Stability is what I want more than anything, and although not a big OC'er in terms of my plans, it seems silly not OCing the 8400.

So maybe 1066 DDR2, 8400, and DS3L isn't the best idea after all?

Again, I don't care about the $$$ as much as knowing my combo is good and solid.

Also, I love the links you shared but since Im new and only see 1 or 2 reviews for an item, I don't know if it is that way because it is so new or because it stinks for reasons I don't know and no one is buying those items.

Also, what if I get that memory and mobo you linked and for some reason things dont work. With most NewEgg items, if they are no refund and exchange for same item only, what good does that do me if I can get 1000 replacements of the same items - but they still dont work?

Or am I worrying too much?

Thanks as always for your insight and guidance.

Also, since both the memory I wanted and 8400 are out of stock until the 28th according to NewEgg, unless they get it in sooner, I have almost a week to keep doing research.

I'd love an X38 (or even X48) board and good DDR3 that is a proven combo.

I was tempted to just get the intel made X38 board but then I heard it is so vanilla but I guess should be stable? Also, it is only meant to work with 1.5v DDR3 though I guess as long as you change the BIOS you are fine?

Agreed! Mine is stable up to 2100mhz. But at 1600mhz I dont even think it bothers the spp/mcp temps.

Your welcome,

I think you might be just worrying a bit too much! J/K... I do the same thing. Your concerns are valid. The boards that have great reviews have been around for awhile and are proven. If you want a proven product than they are great choices. However keep in mind that the X48 chipset is a big brother to the X38. The manufacturer didnt change much. So you are still getting a proven product.

Another thing: Dont buy enthusiast products if you dont plan to overclock. It's not worth it IMO! The P35/X38/X48 and even 7 series nvidia are enthusiast boards. Meant for overclockers and gamers alike.

At 1600mhz on any of those chipsets you wont find a bit of stability issues. Especially with the E8400. Maybe a bit with the Q6600 but not the chipset just the proc maybe.

If you want to save money find a decent X48 board in DDR2 fashion. Than spend the extra money you save on DDR3 on high quality, low latency, high frequency DDR2. I would eve try for a 1200mhz speed set.

Dont really pay much attention to "compatibility" with memory. The "certified" for X38/X48 really doesnt mean much. Only when it comes to EPP or SLI ready does it matter. As long as your motherboard says DDR3 and you get DDR3 you'll be alright.

I would only buy a board from Asus, Gigabyte, MSI, EVGA, and maybe even XFX. Those are "proven" enthusiast boards... oh and not to mention DFI and Abit or Foxconn. Great companies that produce great products. Stay away from Intel and budget boards if you can. Like PC chips, asrock, ECS, Jetway.

Good luck... Also.... if you find make a list of items that you want me or anyone here to crytique post them. We'll look at compatibility and share our expertise/experience

I don't know that I could have said it better myself. For a first time overclocker, you should probably stick to Gigabyte, Asus or Abit. DFI can be overwhelming for your first time.

If you think you're going to get Nehalem when it comes out, or soon after, don't worry about DDR3. It just isn't worth it, especially if you'll upgrade your motherboard in the next couple of years. DDR2 prices can't get much better, and DDR3 will be closer to these prices when you have to use it with the next chipset.

Agreed... the benchmark results arent even that better IMO. Maybe 5% at the most performance increase with high frequ DDR3. You have to remember that the high end DDR3 has super high latency or timings. Like 9-9-9-24. My DDR2 800 is 4-4-4-15. Very snappy in windows! I recommend DDR2... but if you have to have DDR3 than look for lower timings.

I have to say... since we have talked about overclocking... With my motherboard (780i) it was so easy to overclock my E8400!

I set FSB to 1600mhz (some motherboards you adjust the cpu fsb which default would be 333mhz) or 400mhz for other motherboards. Didnt touch voltages (talk more about this in a minute) and set memory to sync and linked it to FSB (I have SLI motherboard and SLI-ready memory so I enabled this feature in bios also) give me a 400mhz overclock on both my memory, FSB (quad pumped of course) and cpu. So memory is dual data making it 800mhz with super tight 4-4-4-15 timings, and cpu with multi at 9 was 3.6ghz. Very simple... I actually stress tested and it was stable so I lowered voltages (from default 1.325v) continually until it got as low as 1.225v. So I have an awesomely stable overclock with less voltage than the motherboard sets it to at default or auto.

That's what I call a great overclock! Very simple!

Wow guys thanks again.

I already have only been considering Gigabyte or Asus. I was considering EVGA when I first started but since not needing SLI and deciding let me stick with intel chipset to go with intel proc, it quickly came down to those two.

With Asus, it seems to my newbie eyes they go the farthest in terms of enthusiast boards where Gigabyte seems like Toyota - nothing super super fancy but very functional and smartly thought out - and for my level, more than enough to play with OC.

Maybe I'm making a false assumption but based on what Ive ready every day now for a few weeks, its my gut impression. The difference make right now is Ive ready enough posts about saying ASUS isnt what it used to be and their tech support is almost non-existent further makes me just needing to decide on a Gigabyte board and be done with it.

Obviously Im sure both companies have their issues as well as successes.

So basically now it is back down to either:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813128089
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820231166

or something like
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] -EX38T-DQ6 (or X48 version)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820227293

And yes, I did at one point consider http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813121090 because I thought it was the sure, safe, stable bet (and probably still is) but yet is a bit too restrictive. Im sure once I feel more comfortable, Ill have wished the Intel board had the options Giggy and ASUS had.

Well, Ill try and just read some other forums about either gigabyte board and unless one or the other has major weaknesses, I guess the first combo it is?

Only thing that has made me wonder is that ASUS has a lot more reviews for equivalent X38/DDR2 or X38/DDR3 or X48/DDR3 boards than does Gigabyte. So that either means ASUS is more popular in that regard or Gigabyte boards come out much later?

Oh and the reason I dont mind the 1066 DDR2 is that way I dont have to OC my memory, just the e8400 (which seems everyone is doing with ease) and my GPU a little.

Thanks!

I think you are wise in getting board that supports DDR2. As this will save you money in the long run. I however would opt for this board http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813131284 because it's a great overclocker, has a lot of enthusiast support out there and also you wont have to do a bios update or flash for the 45nm E8400. I'm not sure if you will have to with the X38 but with this board you for sure wont need to. It's not a prob anyway as long as you have older 65nm procs to flash it with... I am assuming you dont?

Other than that the memory you have picked out is excellent. Keep the concerns and questions coming!

Thank you for the heads up on the ASUS board.

It is wierd that each equivalent board (say a X48/DDR3 or X38/DDR2) from ASUS has more reviews than a similar board from Gigabyte.

On the other hand, Gigabyte boards through NewEgg all mostly seem to have a 30 day refund available where ASUS boards do not - exchange only.

So my fear with an ASUS board is that I'm locked in and forced to make it work.

But it is clear that OC'ers or enthusiasts seems to gravitate more towards ASUS boards?

Thanks though and I will research that board.

Asus has a great reputation. That's why more people buy Asus. I wouldnt worry so much about having to make it work. Check this thread out and then decide. Ask around!

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forum [...] p?t=181921

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forum [...] p?t=169543

You would be fine with either. Both have solid reputations, and will work well for you. Flip a coin if nothing else.

Though the ASUS boards have much cooler names.

I was literally about to order all my stuff and decided to switch from the Gigabyte x38 DDR2 board (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128089) to the ASUS Rampage Formula you mentioned since the reviews for it (even outside NewEgg) were great.

But then I read a few posts similar to:

http://vip.asus.com/forum/view.asp [...] uage=en-us

And I wanted to order the G.Skill 1066 5-5-5-15 memory if I'm going to stick with DDR2 since I don't plan to OC anything but the E8400 (and the GPU a bit). Also the reviews for it have been as good as it gets for memory and G.Skill even lists the Rampage board as approved for the memory in this document: http://www.gskill.us/166.pdf

So now I don't want to walk into a problem, especially since the ASUS board is a no-refund newegg board where the Gigabyte one has a refund if worse comes to worse.

Ughhh. Then again, at least ASUS has forums. Gigabyte doesn't so I'm not sure what issues besides one in NewEgg review exists.

You should have no trouble. Also, if the memory ends up being trouble, exchange it, not the motherboard.

Well, what I'm finding out that is interesting is:

G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1000 (PC2 8000)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820231145

G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820231166

First, I didn't even know there was a 1000 vs a 1066 version.

Now forget about the price. What else is differ