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Anyone care to explain WHY software O/C is bad?

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January 13, 2009 1:54:54 AM

It seems like in every overclocking thread, there's always one or two dudes that start off a post by saying "Software overclocking will kill your rig" or something along those lines.

I've seen it posted quite a few times, but there's never explanation as to why, it's just stated as a fact and then no one seems to question why. For people like me, aside from going out and buying a new motherboard, I have no other option than to use software to overclock my processor. So if it indeed is a guaranteed train wreck, I'd like to know about it before something goes south over here.

I'm currently using "setFSB" to run my Q6600 at 2.8ghz, with the fsb at 311mhz. It's stable and cool enough at this speed on stock cooling, but I don't want to go any higher and don't wanna upgrade my cooling system either. I have 2GB DDR2-667 but don't wanna bump the FSB up to 333 match it (and put it at 3.0ghz) because I don't wanna have to upgrade my cooling.

If anyone can tell me exactly WHY software overclocking "will wipe out my system" then I really want to know, it makes me a bit nervous.

Dave

a b à CPUs
January 13, 2009 2:26:21 AM

Quote:
I've seen it posted quite a few times, but there's never explanation as to why, it's just stated as a fact and then no one seems to question why



I can't tell you why. But this is the best I can do:

Dmaj7 Gmaj7
Look at us baby up all night tearing our love apart
Dmaj7 Gmaj7 F#7sus4 F#7
Aren't we the same two people who lived through years in the dark?
Bm A/B Gmaj7 F#7sus4 F#7
Every time I try to walk away something makes me turn around and stay
Bm A/B G F#m7
And I can't tell you why.
Dmaj7 Gmaj7
When we get crazy it just ain't right girl I get lonely too
Dmaj7 Gmaj7 F#7sus4 F#7
You don't have to worry just hold on tight 'cause I love you.
Bb A/B Gmaj7 F#7sus4 F#7
Nothing's wrong as far as I can see we make it harder then it has to be
Bm A/B
And I can't tell you why no baby
Gmaj7 F#7sus4 F#7
I can't tell you why.....

Dmaj7 x x 0 2 2 2
Gmaj7 3 x 0 0 0 2
F#7sus4 x 2 2 2 2 2
F#7 2 4 2 3 2 2
A/B 0 2 x 2 2 0
Bm x x 4 4 3 2
G 3 x 0 0 0 3

=====================================================================

Here is the tablature for the Eagle's "I Can't Tell You Why" Or at least as
close as I could get it. If anyone finds any errors in this, please email
me and let me know.I've found that this is a really good song to do not only
"electrified" as it was originally done, but also as an "unplugged" version.
The possibilities are endless.





This is the lead part that Don plays in the middle of the song.


|------------|-7-7-5-|------------|-7-7-5-----------|--------------------------|
|------------|-7-7-5-|------------|-7-7-5-----------|--------------------------|
|------------|-7-7-6-|------------|-7-7-6-----------|--------------------------|
|------------|-9-9-7-|------------|-9-9-7-----------|7-h9-p7-h9----------------|
|--------7---|-9-9-7-|--------7---|-9-9-7--------7-9|-----------7-h9-9>5-7-----|
|-7-9-10---7-|-7-7-5-|-7-9-10---7-|-7-7-5-7-9-10----|-----------------------5-7|

|-----------------------------------------|-------------------------------|
|------------>12-12-P10-------------------|-->12-12-P10-------------------|
|----------7-------------11-11---11--9--7-|-------------11-11---11--9--7--|
|------7-9--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
|-7-H9------------------------------------|-------------------------------|
|-----------------------------------------|-------------------------------|

|-----10----------------|-------------------------------|
|->12----12-P10---------|-------------------------------|
|---------------11-9-7--|---7-9-(9)-7-(9-(9)-7-P9-7-----|
|-----------------------|-9--------------------------9--|
|-----------------------|-------------------------------|
|-----------------------|-------------------------------|






And this is the lead part that Don plays at the end of the song...

|------------------------|------------------------|---------------------|
|------------------------|------------------------|----------------->12-|
|-------------7-9->11-7--|-------------7-9->11-7--|-------------7-9-----|
|------7-7-H9------------|------7-7-H9------------|------7-7-H9---------|
|-7-H9-------------------|-7-H9-------------------|-7-H9----------------|
|------------------------|------------------------|---------------------|


|--------------------|--------------------------------|-----(10----------------|
|--------------------|--------------------------------|--------10-12-12--10-12-|
|-7-7-H9-7-7-9->11---|---7->12->12-7-7-H9-7-7-9->11---|---7--------------------|
|------------------7-|-9----------------------------7-|-9----------------------|
|--------------------|--------------------------------|------------------------|
|--------------------|--------------------------------|------------------------|

|-(10---------------(10---------------(12-(12----|-------(10---------------|
|----10-12-12-10-12----10-12-12-10-12---------10-|-10-12----10-12-12-10-12-|
|------------------------------------------------|-------------------------|
|------------------------------------------------|-------------------------|
|------------------------------------------------|-------------------------|
|------------------------------------------------|-------------------------|

|-(10---------------(10-(10---(10-(10---(10-(10---------------|---------------|
|----10-12-12-10-12--------10--------10---------12-10-H12-10>-|---------------|
|-------------------------------------------------------------|-7-9-7---------|
|-------------------------------------------------------------|-------9->11-7-|
|-------------------------------------------------------------|---------------|
|-------------------------------------------------------------|---------------|

|----------------|---------------|----------------|-----------------------------|
|-------------10-|---------------|-------------10-|-----------------------8-P7--|
|-7-9-7----------|-7-9-7---------|-7-9-7----------|-5>7-7>9>7----5>7-7-H9-7---7-|
|-------9->11----|-------9->11-7-|-------9->11----|-5>7-7>9>7----5>7-7-H9-----7-|
|----------------|---------------|----------------|-----------------------------|
|----------------|---------------|----------------|-----------------------------|

|----------------------------|----------------------------|
|---------------------8-P7---|---------------------8-P7---|
|-5>7-7>9>7--5>7-7-H9-7---7--|-5>7-7>9>7--5>7-7-H9-7----7-|
|-5>7-7>9>7--5>7-7-H9-----7--|-5>7-7>9>7--5>7-7-H9------7-|
|----------------------------|----------------------------|
|----------------------------|----------------------------|

In the original studio recording, it just keeps repaeating the last few bars and
fades out. However, on the Eagle's live album and on "Hell Freezes Over," the
song ends with a little ditty like this at the end...




|-7-7-----------10-|
|-8-7-7--------7---|
|-----7-7-7---7----|
|-------7-9--9-----|
|------------------|
|------------------|


Legend:

>N = Slide to the Nth fret
N> = Slide from the Nth fret down
(N = Bend string up at the Nth fret
N) = Bend string at the Nth fret, pick and release bend
(N) = Bend and release string at the Nth fret
HN = Hammer on at Nth fret
PN = Pull off at Nth fret


Maybe because your BIOS is a chip on the MB that controls the hardware on your system with much more precision than having some software developer's 'customized' program do it from windows. I'm really good at reasearching things and following instructions when it comes to working with my hands more often than not. Not sure why. Not that it makes any difference. What do you care.
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
January 13, 2009 3:38:19 PM

AFAIK, software overclocking may not carry the safe limitations imposed by overclocking tools designed for specific hardware. But that's not necessarily a given, because people who know what they're doing make sure they won't put their rig at risk. Maybe that's why everyone plays the software OC is bad card.
Related resources
a c 172 à CPUs
a c 197 K Overclocking
January 13, 2009 4:21:17 PM

The reason that I prefer to use the BIOS is that the BIOS (in a well designed motherboard) gives me control over everything that it is possible to change.
January 13, 2009 4:32:39 PM

Well, for one - the Eagles are boring. So there.

(And yes, I'm a guitar player in a band as well.)

I also work with my hands quite frequently, being a certified Ford Lincoln Mercury Master technician for the last 7 years (including diesel and high-performance) tends to make sure that your hands get used more frequently than most.

R_Manic, that response makes the most sense to me.. I just thought it was more or less like the softwares have a tendency to "'crash" or lock up and as a result, the FSB's and everything might get temporarily thrown WAY out of whack and damage other components. I just haven't been able to find any solid explanations, but that seems very likely.

I understand , for the most part, the implications that come along with overclocking and that's why I'm satisfied with a very mild o/c of only 400mhz, I don't want to spend the resources to safely run 3.2 or 3.6GHz. Maybe with my next computer, but as it sits right now, I'm pretty sure that my current rig will keep me happy for at least another year. I *MAY* toss another 2 GB of RAM in it but other than that, I think I'm done with this one.

Thanks for the input!!

Dave
January 13, 2009 4:50:56 PM

I would only add this:

Often the software programs do not account for the many factors involved in overclocking. It may allow you to increase the frequency of your chip but not the voltage. It may allow you to increase the FSB, but not change the memory ratio. There is just not a lot of control.

The other factor is that you are making, essentially, hardware changes while trying to run an operating system and the program that you are changing things with. Often times, when you overclock, the system will not post, because it doesn't pass basic safety checks. If you are already in windows, you're gonna crash, and too much crashing will result in corruption of files and...blah blah blah, headache for all.

It also seems easier with software, which gives a false sense of security. Overclocking has become a lot easier, but you still need to get out there, read the reasources and know what you're doing.
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
January 13, 2009 10:25:46 PM

How's this for weird:

I can't overclock to 3.6GHz in the BIOS using the default multiplier, because Windows will BSOD on bootup with an error in the cryptographic subsystem (no idea what it's specifically referring to), yet if I OC using Abit uGuru in Windows, I can go up to 3.6 with relatively good stability. I even made 4GHz on air with an E6600, although it was crashing everything including uGuru at the time since I could only give it 1.75V max.

What I like about software overclocking is that most times the changes will not affect the BIOS, so if it reboots on you everything will be fine when it starts up again. The bad things, as was mentioned earlier, is the lack of control over alot of settings. Granted there are programs which also change memory timings etc (MemSet or something I think it's called).

I don't think software overclocking can kill anything, but it does require you to have programs running, or at least start, every time you boot.
a b à CPUs
January 13, 2009 10:37:15 PM

Quote:
Windows will BSOD on bootup with an error in the cryptographic subsystem (no idea what it's specifically referring to)


Your system is need of more cryptonite.

http://www.tweakers.fr/memset.html

Personally, I like the Eagles. It's Paul that has lost his mind.

Someone's knockin' at the door
Somebody's ringin' the bell
Someone's knockin' at the door
Somebody's ringin' the bell
Do me a favor,
Open the door and let 'em in

Ku Ku Kachoo :lol: 

January 14, 2009 7:59:36 AM

badge, have you been drinking. :lol:  Just asking.

Damage INC, do you have links to posts where people have been saying "Software overclocking will kill your rig"?

Software OCing won't kill your rig unless maybe you are using an app from OCing R Us.

The reason that people want to use the BIOS is because it is... well... the BIOS. Aside from randomizer's experience you will generally get better results. Why put some potentially flaky Windows program in between you and the BIOS.


If you have no way to OC through the BIOS directly, then you have an OEM. If you blow it up, then you can get a new rig that doesn't have a locked BIOS. It's a win win situation.

Keep an eye on your CPU temp and voltage and you will be ok.

OCing through Windows is better than no OCing at all.
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
January 14, 2009 8:18:10 AM

Zorg said:
Aside from randomizer's experience you will generally get better results.

I'm special you know? :pt1cable: 
January 14, 2009 8:29:54 AM

Or maybe just lucky.

Are you saying that OCing through Windows is preferable? ;) 
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
January 14, 2009 8:48:50 AM

Perhaps. You can't really trust a chip that idles at 56C and needs 1.725V to hit 4GHz on air for enough stbility to open Paint :kaola: 
January 14, 2009 8:57:29 AM

Ok, you got me there. :lol: 
a b à CPUs
January 14, 2009 1:24:34 PM

I would have to agree with Zorg when he asks OP,

Quote:
Damage INC, do you have links to posts where people have been saying "Software overclocking will kill your rig"?


Software is used to OC your video card (Riva Tuner/Ntune). However it would be funny to see Microsoft include an overclocking 'utility' with Windows7 that gave the user full control over say the voltage applied to the system hardware including CPU, NB, RAM, SB, etc. :lol:  I have not used the OCing software that comes with MB's for years. I have not even tried ASUS's AI or whatever it's called. Do these types of OCing software have a limit on voltage applied? I hope so. Like the Toys or US version does. :lol: 

Seriously I have a system that has no adjustment in BIOS for the FSB. I have a Pentium D 805 with a 533MHz. FSB. I want to get that system BUS speed up to near 200MHz which I can on a better board. So, Zorg or Randomizer, you ever used this Clockgen or any other generic windows software OCing utility that may available? I think I will try it.

http://files.extremeoverclocking.com/file.php?f=189
January 14, 2009 8:47:31 PM

Thanks for all the responses, again guys.

I'm not gonna hunt down all the threads I've seen across various forums where people state that software O/C'ing will fry ****, but I obviously wouldn't have posted this topic if I hadn't had a reason to, lol..

I think I'm ok with my software OC then, according to much of what I've read here. I'm not doing anything remotely extreme with it, the only crappy thing is that every time it restarts, I had to do it all over again. Only a 30 second ordeal but annoying nonetheless, hehe..

Dave
January 14, 2009 10:00:20 PM

I wasn't suggesting that you were lying, I just wanted to see them if it was convenient.


Badge, I tried ClockGen a while back for the fun of it. If I remember correctly it didn't have my PLL model in the list. I used a few others for grins. It has been absent from CPUIDs site for a while with a "ClockGen will be back soon" note. I guess they are giving it a needed refresh.

If you have a Dell lying around, that or the SetFSB in the article are certainly better than nothing. I haven't looked at SetFSB yet, but you may have better luck with it.

Comp, how are you doing?

I saw that article a while back and scanned it. This time I bookmarked SetFSB, just in case I run across an OEM. Odd that they wouldn't have linked it in the article.

Here is the link if anyone is interested.

SetFSB_HomePage
January 14, 2009 10:17:12 PM

Lol I didn't think I was being called a liar :) 

(dickhead)

Haha...

Dave
January 14, 2009 10:23:22 PM

I don't know what that post was all about. :pt1cable: 
a b à CPUs
January 14, 2009 10:29:48 PM

Yeah, I was all set with clock gen on a usb drive and the page linked to my mailbox, then Comp utronix linked SetFSB. Now I have that all marked. I'll try it on my Pentium D 805 soon. Right now with the board it's on an Intel workstation with an ATI Radeon Express 200, the latest BIOS offers no adjustment to the system BUS. 133MHz x 20 = 2.66GHz. Maybe with SetFSB I can get to 200MHz. x 20 with no increase to the voltages. :sol:  I'd settle for less.
January 14, 2009 10:36:58 PM

Let us know how it works out.
a b à CPUs
January 14, 2009 10:45:52 PM

The board is kind of weak. I can put the Pentium D 805 in my ASUS 945G micro and clock it to 3.5 on air. That's like 20 x 175Mhz., but with the voltages all at or near manufacturer suggested retail price. Watercooling and extreme voltages will take the chip to 4.0GHz. Our secretary will love it when I get through with it. She learned how to delete her browsing history. She's high tech all the way. She's pretty good when she has time to work between her cell phone, My Space, AOL (I uninstalled that crap), and all the guys coming in the office hitting on her. Yesterday, a guy with three kids and his wife in treatment in our office hit on her! Hahaha!
January 14, 2009 11:02:00 PM

Where is your office? I think I should drop by. :lol: 
a b à CPUs
January 14, 2009 11:49:10 PM

:lol:  She's a heartbreaker. :love: 
a b à CPUs
January 29, 2009 7:04:13 AM

Zorg said:
Let us know how it works out.


BTW, I tried clock gen and setfsb last week. I have an ATI Radeon Express 200 chipset which not on the 'preferred' chipset list of those two softwares. I ran into the same problem you did, incorrect Pll. I googled clock gen to my MB and some guys claimed to have made clock gen work with it. I don't doubt they did, but I was guessing at which PLL to use and I locked up the system a couple of times pinning the tail. We use the computer at the front desk and I didn't want to crash/corrupt it and spend hours reaming, rapping and rotating it. So, maybe some other day I'll try again. If the BIOS just had a simple adjustment for fsb...I would never have learned I Can't Tell You Why and realized McCartney has lost his mind :lol:  . If OP is reading this...Ku Ku Ka Choo. :o 
a b à CPUs
January 29, 2009 7:06:30 AM

Hey, some middle aged 'tard lawn guy with three kids hit on 'heartbreaker'. She's 19 and looks like the new Miss America 'Manhands'.
!