New build under $2500

[scenarioL113]

OK guys I have researched this and other forums and am still uncertain on what to get. I spent hours and hours over the last week or two with two little ones tugging on my leg to get this and that so please help me with some advice, Any of you dads out there know where I am coming from.

I have built maybe 5 or 6 systems before but havent built one in about 3 years.

I want an SLI configuration that I will initially build with one GPU. I am hearing that NVidia will release a real new platform for a vid card 3q this year, I waited and for last year and the 9800 is a marginal upgrade from what I am hearing. I need a PC now tha can play some games with (maybe a 9800gx2) and then go crazy with SLI on the newer card later this year.

I had always built with AMD processors and am starting to realize that the intel is the better choice now.

I need a power supply for the SLI so I guess I will bite the bullet and get a 1000W plus now for the upgrade later.

Liquid cooling????

q6600 or q9450....I dont even know the difference

RAM DDR2 or DDR3? corsair, etc...?

how about a case to fit the SLI setup

I am so confused on the ram issue and I dont know what to get.

I think I want to get the 9800gx2 (single) and then get 2 of the newer series when Nvidia releases it later on.

I am sure there are others in the same boat as me right now so maybe somebody can give me some input on how to spend my money wisely.

I need an SLI board with SLI PSU even though I am setting it up with single GPU now, RAM to go with the initial setup but will go good with the upgrade later.

I know I may get flamed but I am too confused to even argue back, please help a 37 YO father of two youngins that has tried very hard to figure out whats best for the new gamin rig. My head is spinning on what is what and I have searched on the forums for info and have mixed ideas on what is best.

My apologies in advance if this post is out of line with forum etiquette .

 

[RPAaggieDude]

I would advise against liquid cooling unless you are planning to overclock a lot of your components by a substantial amount. The reason I advise against it is because it not the easiest thing to set up, and if you mess something up (say you dont connect a tube properly) it could really damage your current components.

There is nothing wrong with the new AMD processors (the new 9850 BE is a great proc and comparable to those other to), but if it is between the q6600 and the q9450, i'd go with the q6600.

DDR3 is worthless and extremely expensive. Get a set of crucial tracer ddr2 (the new 4gb kit they put on newegg is great).

I use a thermaltake armor for my current setup and it has plenty of space for SLI or Crossfire! Lian Li is also another great case manufacturer for this kind of application.

P.S. be careful with the power supply you buy, its the most important component in your system!

 

[dagger]

You should choose Intel, which, at least for the moment, both perform better and is better bang for the buck.

For motherboard, choose either x38 for high overclocking and crossfire, or 780i for sli. x38 runs at 1600mhz fsb natively, and reliably oc to 2000mhz fsb. 780i runs at 1333mhz fsb natively, and reliably oc to 1600mhz. You'll likely be able to exceed the 2000mhz/1600mhz reliable oc limits on those boards, it's just not guaranteed. 1600mhz fsb = 3.6ghz for Q6600(9x), and 3.2ghz for Q9450(8x).

If you use x38 board, get Q9450, as it can oc higher while running cooler despite lower 8x multiplier. If you use 780i, Q6600 becomes more attractive, because with its 9x multiplier, it's less bottlenecked by the 780i's lower fsb ceiling, and therefore may oc higher than Q9450.

For graphics card, I'd wait until the 9900 and 4870 comes out, then see benchmarks to see which one is better. They will both be better than top tier cards available to us right now. If 4870 perform better than 9900, get x38 board with crossfire. If 9900 perform better than 4870, get 780i for sli. If they're around the same performance, get x38, because it's a better chipset motherboard.

Aviod ddr3. It offers little performance boost for far higher cost. Also, being on the bleeding edge, there are unresolved issues, such as only 2 sticks of 1600 ddr3 ram being able to work, instead of the typical 4.

Ddr2 800 is best bang for the buck. You can try 1066 or higher if you have the money, but keep in mind most 1066 sticks are just factory oced 800 ones, and may default back to 800 unless you set it manually.

Any mid tower or full tower will fit. Don't worry about it. More room inside is good, but letting air through is more important than size. Get a case with mesh front.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowImage.aspx?Image=11-119-077-13.jpg%2c11-119-077-14.jpg%2c11-119-077-15.jpg%2c11-119-077-16.jpg%2c11-119-077-05.jpg%2c11-119-077-17.jpg%2c11-119-077-21.jpg%2c11-119-077-11.jpg%2c11-119-077-18.jpg%2c11-119-077-19.jpg%2c11-119-077-20.jpg%2c11-119-077-10.jpg%2c11-119-077-22.jpg%2c11-119-077-09.jpg&CurImage=11-119-077-13.jpg&WaterMark=1&Item=N82E16811119077&Description=COOLER+MASTER+Centurion+5+CAC-T05-WW+Black%2fSilver+Aluminum+Bezel%2c+SECC+Chassis+ATX+Mid+Tower+Computer+Case+-+Retail

Lower end liquid cooling have been benchmarked to perform below the best air cooling solution. Get either high costing liquid cooling or stick to air.

You do not need 1000+ watt powersupplies for any system, under any circumstance. 850w will do for everything. Also note 12v rail ampage, it's not just watts.

 

[scenarioL113]

I am looking at these so far:

eVGA 132-CK-NF78-A1 780i mobo
EVGA NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GX2 1GB
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz
Crucial Ballistix Tracer 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800
Thermaltake W0131RU ATX12V / EPS12V 850W Power Supply
Cool master stacker 830 RC-830-SSN3-GP


still nd a hard drive, any suggestions or comments to the above?

What s a good fast hard drive between 500gb and 1 TB?

I was going to have 2 hard drives and if so should they be the same or run a smaller one thats got better speed to install the OS, I am going to run Vista Ultimate.


about $1500 so far!

 

[bpogdowz]

This is the hard drive you want: http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?item=N82E16822136131
It's ranked best performer on tom's for 500-750 drives. Also if you get it, pick up this with it as it runs a tad hot: http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?item=N82E16835106105

 

[bpogdowz]

This is the hard drive you want: http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?item=N82E16822136131
It's ranked best performer on tom's for 500-750 drives. Also if you get it, pick up this with it as it runs a tad hot: http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?item=N82E16835106105

 

[dagger]

This is the hard drive you want: http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?item=N82E16822136131
It's ranked best performer on tom's for 500-750 drives. Also if you get it, pick up this with it as it runs a tad hot: http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?item=N82E16835106105

Get those instead:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148274
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835150085

 

[WR2]

Agree that 850W is plenty for all but triple high end GPUs.

EVGA NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GX2 1GB is fairly expensive @ ~ $550 - what monitor are using?
You could get an interim Evga 8800GTS that should handle your needs for any monitor below 1920x1200 resolution for $225.
We're probably getting close to the 90 day StepUp window for 99xx availability.

 

[scenarioL113]

OK I am getting close how is this looking?


eVGA 132-CK-NF78-A1 780i mobo

EVGA NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GX2 1GB

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz

XIGMATEK HDT-S1283 120mm Rifle CPU Cooler - Retail

G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1000 (PC2 8000) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail

Thermaltake W0131RU ATX12V / EPS12V 850W Power Supply

Cool master stacker 830 RC-830-SSN3-GP

MASSCOOL SYTRIN Kuformula SHF1 Ultra HDD Cooler

Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS 500GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

SAMSUNG Black 20X DVD Burner model SH-S203N

Acer AL2216Wbd Black 22" 5ms Widescreen LCD Monitor

Retail so far under $1900.00


Any suggestions or am I missing anything?

What about a second drive for OS to install on (10rpm) or is it not worth it?

 

[dagger]

OK I am getting close how is this looking?


eVGA 132-CK-NF78-A1 780i mobo

EVGA NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GX2 1GB

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz

XIGMATEK HDT-S1283 120mm Rifle CPU Cooler - Retail

G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1000 (PC2 8000) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail

Thermaltake W0131RU ATX12V / EPS12V 850W Power Supply

Cool master stacker 830 RC-830-SSN3-GP

MASSCOOL SYTRIN Kuformula SHF1 Ultra HDD Cooler

Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS 500GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

SAMSUNG Black 20X DVD Burner model SH-S203N

Acer AL2216Wbd Black 22" 5ms Widescreen LCD Monitor

Retail so far under $1900.00


Any suggestions or am I missing anything?

What about a second drive for OS to install on (10rpm) or is it not worth it?

Looks good. Faster hdd will decrease load time, but won't increase in game fps. If loadtime matters to you, get it. Also, keep in ming all 1000mhz ddr2 ram and some 1066mhz ddr2 ram are factory overclocked 800mhz sticks, and may default back to 800mhz on some motherboards. If that happens, just manually raise clock and voltage.

 

[weinzey]

OK I am getting close how is this looking?


eVGA 132-CK-NF78-A1 780i mobo

EVGA NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GX2 1GB

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz

XIGMATEK HDT-S1283 120mm Rifle CPU Cooler - Retail

G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1000 (PC2 8000) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail

Thermaltake W0131RU ATX12V / EPS12V 850W Power Supply

Cool master stacker 830 RC-830-SSN3-GP

MASSCOOL SYTRIN Kuformula SHF1 Ultra HDD Cooler

Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS 500GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

SAMSUNG Black 20X DVD Burner model SH-S203N

Acer AL2216Wbd Black 22" 5ms Widescreen LCD Monitor

Retail so far under $1900.00


Any suggestions or am I missing anything?

What about a second drive for OS to install on (10rpm) or is it not worth it?

get the xigmatek s1283 red scorpion instead of the normal one. it ools better, is quieter (at least i think), and it looks better for about the same price.

if you want 500gb to 1tb hdd space i suggest getteing 2 500gb seagate barracudas in raid 0. since its gonna be a gaming rig (at least i guess that, looking at your graphic card ) data loss shouldnt be a too big issue for you.

plus, i'd recommend an other psu. look at pc power and cooling or corsair or be quiet if you live in europe

 

[Psymonx]

I don't see spending $2000 and only getting a Q6600.

I would DROP the HDD Cooler, Get a Cheaper case, like Antec 900, Even a cheaper Motherboard. JUST so you can afford a better Processor. That machine is going to be bottlenecked at the processor for gaming, big time.

 

[dagger]

I don't see spending $2000 and only getting a Q6600.

I would DROP the HDD Cooler, Get a Cheaper case, like Antec 900, Even a cheaper Motherboard. JUST so you can afford a better Processor. That machine is going to be bottlenecked at the processor for gaming, big time.

Q6600 won't be bottnecked for a long time.

But yes, consider a better cpu. As in Q9450, not Q9300.

 

[scenarioL113]

OK I am really close now.

I need a PSU that has modular cable capability, has plenty of power for 2 HDD and an SLI dual card setup.

AND it has to work with the Antec 900 series case, I understand the Thermaltake W0131RU 850 watt will be inadequate due to cable length issues with the Antec 900 case.

I been searching around and cant get a straight answer for the PSU I am seeking

Thanks in advance!

 

[WR2]

Also the Thermaltake W0131RU didnt have the 6+2pin PCI-e connector that you want for the 9800GX2.

Look over the Antec Truepower Quattro 850W or Silverstone Decathlon 850W. Both have 6+2pin PCI-e connectors.
Both PSUs reviewed here - and cable lengths mentioned.

 

[WR2]

get the xigmatek s1283 red scorpion instead of the normal one. it cools better, is quieter (at least i think), and it looks better for about the same price.

I like the Xigmatek s1283 Red Scorpion but Im not sure it will mesh with the 900's blue case fans. Now if you're going to change out the 900 blue fans for red - and maybe some red CCFL I'd say you'd end up with a more interesting case. [:wr2:5]

 

[dagger]

I like the Xigmatek s1283 Red Scorpion but Im not sure it will mesh with the 900's blue case fans. Now if you're going to change out the 900 blue fans for red - and maybe some red CCFL I'd say you'd end up with a more interesting case. [:wr2:5]

http://benchmarkreviews.com/images/reviews/cooling/Xigmatek_CAC-SXHH3-U03/Red_Scorpion_S1283_Splash.jpg

Isn't that the same heatsink? Just buy the cheaper heatsink and add a high performance 120mm fan onto it.

 

[scenarioL113]

I have to be honest with you, I have seen dozens of reviews on the "red scorpion" but I can not see an advertisement selling one. If you can post a link it would be great.

Is a HDD cooler necessary with the Antec 900 case?

I am leaning toward the q9450 anything have a better bang for buck in the $350 to $400 range?

How bout the monitor I listed anyone have one or similar?

 

[Psymonx]

Q6600 won't be bottnecked for a long time.

But yes, consider a better cpu. As in Q9450, not Q9300.

Actualy, AT the moment, the Q6600 is out proformed by a cheaper dual core in every GAMING benchmark. Only people who benifit from a QUAD right now is Video Encoding, and things of that nature. I don't understand why anyone would spend 2k on a PC and put a $200 processor in it. The processor and graphics card are going to yeild the best benches per PRICE of any part you put into a PC, RAM and PSU have the least. I wouldn't skimp on a PSU because a bad PSU, is just not fun. I'm just talking Ecconomics here, 10% of your total build cost being on your CPU? DEFINITLY not how I would go. 30% is a good rule of thumb when working on a budget.

 

[Psymonx]

I have to be honest with you, I have seen dozens of reviews on the "red scorpion" but I can not see an advertisement selling one. If you can post a link it would be great.

Is a HDD cooler necessary with the Antec 900 case?

I am leaning toward the q9450 anything have a better bang for buck in the $350 to $400 range?

How bout the monitor I listed anyone have one or similar?

Thats more ON what what I would build for a customer spending about your amount of money. Q6600 is a great CPU, but I would put it in a 1000-1200 build, Prolly NOT a 2000 build, unless it was a stop gap, and you were just waiting for another CPU to come out, and needed something Cheap RIGHT now.

 

[dagger]

Actualy, AT the moment, the Q6600 is out proformed by a cheaper dual core in every GAMING benchmark. Only people who benifit from a QUAD right now is Video Encoding, and things of that nature. I don't understand why anyone would spend 2k on a PC and put a $200 processor in it. The processor and graphics card are going to yeild the best benches per PRICE of any part you put into a PC, RAM and PSU have the least. I wouldn't skimp on a PSU because a bad PSU, is just not fun. I'm just talking Ecconomics here, 10% of your total build cost being on your CPU? DEFINITLY not how I would go. 30% is a good rule of thumb when working on a budget.

Only when the dual cores are overclocked higher, and only on older games with 2 threads or lower that only use 2 of 4 cores. Multithreaded games like Lost Planet and Supreme Commander uses all 4 cores. Multithreading is the way of the future. quad processors will stay around long after duals become bottlenecked by heavily multithread applications.

The same argument were raised against single core vs duals when duals first came out. Now, early duals are still usable, while single core cpus from the same period are completely useless.

On this budget, go for Q9450, or at least Q6600. I would not settle on a cheap dual.

 

[WR2]

You're right - not even the specialty shops (Jab-Tech, FrozenCPU and FrostyTech) have the "red scorpion". Maybe the Antec 900 would look better with a green lighting scheme anyway.

The Acer AL2216Wbd 22" is a good value but it won't really utilize the 9800GX2 to its full potential. 24" models arent much more expensive these days.
If it were my eyes thought I'd look at the Gateway FHD2400 or the Dell Ultrasharp 2408WFP. Gotta LOVE the USB ports on the monitors - I know I do.

The Quad vs Dual question would be easy if you did a lot of media encoding (video and audio). For gaming and general purpose multi-tasking it's tougher to decide. All things being equal (25% OCs all CPUS for example) the E8400 will perform better across the wider range of games and applications.
If you were a die-hard FSX or Supreme Commander fan it would be easier to recommend the quad - but even there the higher clocked dual core will slightly outperform the quad.
When you get right down to it - either choice will provide a kick-ass system now and over the next several years.

 

[WR2]

Is a HDD cooler necessary with the Antec 900 case?

Antec 900 has one of the stock 120mm case fans right in front of the HD bay. You can easily pass on the HD cooler.

 

[dagger]

Of course hdd coolers aren't necessary. It's hdd, not cpu. It's only useful if you want that hdd to last a long time. I use it on a 1TB drive for that reason. Besides, it's an extra set of fans sucking cool air into the case.

 

[scenarioL113]

Ok I ordered the component and just waiting for them to come in. Looks like this:

eVGA 132-CK-NF78-A1 780i mobo

EVGA NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GX2 1GB

Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450

XIGMATEK HDT-S1283 120mm Rifle CPU Cooler - Retail

G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1000 (PC2 8000) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail

Antec 850 watt TRUEPOWER Quattro

Antec 900

Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS 500GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

SAMSUNG Black 20X DVD Burner model SH-S203N

Acer AL2216Wbd Black 22" 5ms Widescreen LCD Monitor

Total cost: $1868.89