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I want to avoid CPU/Graphics bottleneck

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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May 7, 2008 1:56:38 AM

I need an AGP card for my system which is built around an Athlon XP 3000+ 2.1 GHz.

X1950 Pro/X850 XT? 7600 GT/7800GS?

Also,will the processors of the 512 versions of these cards really make use of the greater memory,or should I just go with the 256's?

Another thread suggested an HD 2600, for a similar cpu, but it was for a non-gamer.This will not work for me gentlemen.

As I'm sure some will wonder, the answer is NO, I can't overclock the processor.I have a rare MoBo, the BIOS of which includes no adjustable settings for ANY overclocking.Thanks HP. :big thumbs up and dopey smile:

May 7, 2008 2:14:38 AM

None, save towards a decent system. A decent GPU+CPU+Mobo+Ram combo can be had for $250-300 that is gaming worthy with an 8800GS.
May 7, 2008 2:30:19 AM

a 1650xt will bottleneck your cpu. I agree, don't bother upgrading.
My system upgrade didn't become worth it until I overclocked my athlon XP. If you can't overclock it, don't do it.
Save your cash and buy yourself something new.
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a b U Graphics card
May 7, 2008 2:41:56 AM

Agree here wholeheartedly. That rig is way, way past it's time for running of any of todays games no matter what video card you put in it. It's simply throwing money in the trash can.
a c 143 U Graphics card
May 7, 2008 2:45:26 AM

The x1950pro is the fastest of those, but you'd most likely need a new PSu for it. Plus there are much faster newer PCI-E cards for the price. I agree with the others.
May 7, 2008 4:24:46 AM

The best AGP card is the 3850, but don't bother. Save up for a new CPU and motherboard with PCIe. I made the mistake of getting an AGP X1650 Pro for an old P4 Northwood that died in a thunderstorm.

The board's not good anymore, I can't get a socket 478 board that's not Via chipset and the X1650 is collecting dust. I tested in a a friend's system and it has artifacts in games, so I think it's dead.

Don't spend good money keeping an old system alive. Save up for new and then you won't have to worry as much about CPU/GPU bottlenecks. That said, I'm CPU limited right now because I'm saving up for a 24" LCD and must continue to use a 17" CRT.

It's not all that much of a disaster being CPU limited. You can still get playable framerates, just not the sort you find in benchies where the CPU's a quad core Intel Extreme.

May 7, 2008 5:42:34 AM

Well,thanks to everyone for the input.It makes perfect sense.

However,I am in a position to shell out $50 or so for a card that would be appropriate for my cpu, until such time as I can get a new rig, which I expect to be in the near future.I plan to hand my current one down to some poor soul who would actually find it an improvement from what they have.I can think of a few people,actually.

So any suggestions here?Or to simplify the process,can someone explain how to match cpu to gpu?Is it fsb to core clock max?I would really like to know the answer to this question.Teach a man to fish and all.

I've tried to do a search on Google along these lines,but it's hard to come up with concise terms.
a c 130 U Graphics card
May 7, 2008 7:12:42 AM

Jiso said:
Well,thanks to everyone for the input.It makes perfect sense.

However,I am in a position to shell out $50 or so for a card that would be appropriate for my cpu, until such time as I can get a new rig, which I expect to be in the near future.I plan to hand my current one down to some poor soul who would actually find it an improvement from what they have.I can think of a few people,actually.

So any suggestions here?Or to simplify the process,can someone explain how to match cpu to gpu?Is it fsb to core clock max?I would really like to know the answer to this question.Teach a man to fish and all.

I've tried to do a search on Google along these lines,but it's hard to come up with concise terms.


Hi jiso,
The guys are right it would be better to upgrade the whole thing but a budget is a budget right :( 
Anyway give us a list of what you are running now including PSU make/model/wattage, and we will see whats what.
$50 is a very tight budget and a lot will depend on what you are running now and your PSU as to if there is a viable upgrade for that budget.
mactronix
May 7, 2008 7:24:50 AM

A 2600pro/XT is better than the cards above.
May 7, 2008 7:29:28 AM

I can play everything except supreme commander on my XP 2800+ with a 256 meg 7600gs, I played fear and Company of heroes for an example and that card is a good match for your cpu. I since retired the system 2 weeks ago for an x2 5400. Hell, i'll sell you the whole thing for 75 if you want.
a c 130 U Graphics card
May 7, 2008 7:31:45 AM

romulus47plus1 said:
A 2600pro/XT is better than the cards above.


Depends what you want from it rom,
If you want image quality and FPS there hasn't been anthing mentioned yet that would get past a 1950 pro. If you dont much care for image quality but want to be compatable with DX10 then the 2600XT is the only way to go. :) 
Mactronix
May 7, 2008 7:44:07 AM

Yeah, but an athlon 3000 won't even push a 2600 or 1950 that hard, but at least he cab turn up the eye candy for free with one of those. the 7600s are more balanced than for an athlon 3000+ cpu
a b U Graphics card
May 7, 2008 7:51:02 AM

Well the thing is the X1950Pro is the most performant, but the OP's comment about the HD2600 ignores the fact that it beats the GF7600GT, standard GF7800GS

The X1950Pro would be #1, but the HD2600 likely be next in line if not right next to the X850XT.
May 7, 2008 8:09:05 AM

TheGreatGrapeApe said:
Well the thing is the X1950Pro is the most performant, but the OP's comment about the HD2600 ignores the fact that it beats the GF7600GT, standard GF7800GS

The X1950Pro would be #1, but the HD2600 likely be next in line if not right next to the X850XT.


Yeah, but those cards are gonna be yawning at his slower cpu, the 7000's are more than fast enough for a 3000+. A 3000+ athlon can't push enough data to make the faster cards NECESSARY, but they are still nice cards. I have a 2800+ with a gig of ddr and a 7600gs right at my foot, so unless he gets a good price on a 2600 series or 1950, it'd be better to go with a 7600 if it is cheaper.

What is the use of having a card the cpu cannot even feed when it is maxxed out at 100 percent utilization ?
a c 130 U Graphics card
May 7, 2008 8:31:54 AM

royalcrown said:
Yeah, but those cards are gonna be yawning at his slower cpu, the 7000's are more than fast enough for a 3000+. A 3000+ athlon can't push enough data to make the faster cards NECESSARY, but they are still nice cards. I have a 2800+ with a gig of ddr and a 7600gs right at my foot, so unless he gets a good price on a 2600 series or 1950, it'd be better to go with a 7600 if it is cheaper.

What is the use of having a card the cpu cannot even feed when it is maxxed out at 100 percent utilization ?


We get what you are saying but the main thing against it is the price point, you may know of a place where you can get a GS cheap but i just looked at New egg and this is the cheapest GS they had and also the cheapest 2600XT .


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Add to that the fact that the GS is GDDR2 and the XT is GDDR3 and it really is no contest :D 
Mactronix
May 7, 2008 9:44:10 AM

mactronix said:
We get what you are saying but the main thing against it is the price point, you may know of a place where you can get a GS cheap but i just looked at New egg and this is the cheapest GS they had and also the cheapest 2600XT .


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Add to that the fact that the GS is GDDR2 and the XT is GDDR3 and it really is no contest :D 
Mactronix


Hmmm, my 7600 was only 69 and I got it on Ebay, but that seems a lot for that at the egg for sure. As far as even pushing GDDR2..not gonna happen with his cpu, but if it is the same price as GDDR3, then yeah, I'd go with the GDDR3 too.

Wow 7600's are drying up in the retail channel ! The agp is going up...maybe he should buy a PCIe slot for his MB...lol. I guess he is scrooged with AGP prices...bummer !
May 7, 2008 10:30:35 AM

how long did it took you to save those 50?... try it again.. .. and again... and you have 150...

you can buy a decent 5000x2 amd with a mobo and 2 gigs of ddr2800 ram.. for about 150$

and then yeah anything like a 7600gt or 8600gt for les than 70$ is perfect for you

really, dont invest in that anymore @.@
a b U Graphics card
May 7, 2008 10:52:50 AM

TheGreatGrapeApe said:
Well the thing is the X1950Pro is the most performant, but the OP's comment about the HD2600 ignores the fact that it beats the GF7600GT, standard GF7800GS

The X1950Pro would be #1, but the HD2600 likely be next in line if not right next to the X850XT.

Agreed. And likely the HD2600's will also be the best price/performance wise right now too if he looks new. The 2600XT is about $90 now.

But $50, I doubt he'd find even an HD2600 pro for that price AR in AGP(or any of the cards he mentioned for that matter) without looking used. From what I have seen, $50 on newegg gets you at best a GDDR2 X1650.

Cpu will keep you from playing some games. But there sure are plenty of games that system can play worthy of a $50-90 card.
May 7, 2008 12:31:32 PM

Actually,with all these replies, I still don't understand how one arrives at the conclusion of one card being enough or too much.I'll be able to use this information when I purchase my next rig, so really, can anyone tell me the secret?

Wait.I bet I know what it is.It's schfifty five. :kaola: 

The price isn't a big deal either,I just threw the $50 out there as a guess.
a b U Graphics card
May 7, 2008 1:19:33 PM

Quote:
However,I am in a position to shell out $50 or so for a card that would be appropriate for my cpu, until such time as I can get a new rig, which I expect to be in the near future


I picked up a 7900gt (PCI-e, they didn't make AGP) for $50 on ebay for a build I was doing...I would say its worth finding a used cheap card since people always dump them off on ebay to get the newest ones. You can even find some decent motherboards if you look often enough...that aren't either abused or overpriced as *used* more than retail.
a c 143 U Graphics card
May 7, 2008 1:56:55 PM

Jiso said:
Actually,with all these replies, I still don't understand how one arrives at the conclusion of one card being enough or too much.I'll be able to use this information when I purchase my next rig, so really, can anyone tell me the secret?



OK, let me give it a try.

First of all, it depends on the game. Some, like Flight Simulator X, are limited by the CPU, others by the video card. For example FSX will work about the same on a Q6600/7800GTX and on a Q6600/8800GTX, while Oblivion will give you several times more fps on the Q6600/8800GTX than on the Q6600/7800GTX.

Second, the resolution matters. The higher the resolution, the more the video card matters. For example in Crysis at 1280x768 (a small resolution), a 8600GT and a HD 3650 do about the same. At higher resolutions (say, 1680x1050) the 8600GT does better.

There's really no secret. Just lots and lots of benchmarks all over the Web.
a b U Graphics card
May 7, 2008 2:21:13 PM

Yeah that is a good explanation. It depends on the game and resolution. So IF the CPU is enough for smooth gameplay at the desired details levels, then you can bump up the resolution and/or AA/AF levels until the GPU gets stressed.

But sometimes older single core CPU's like yours will limit the detail levels or the games you can smoothly play regardless of the video card (GPU). Take Test Drive unlimited for example. I know from playing it myself on my Athlon XP that your CPU will struggle at that game no matter the card and even at low details. It's OK at 2.2GHz, but not great. Slower than that fps will often hover under 30 fps even at 800x600 low. It's a port with very few options to adjust, so the Athlon XP's struggle alot at it.

Some games, like Oblivion and Crysis are very GPU and CPU dependent. Too weak of either will drastically hurt game play. Any often a slower CPU not only limits max/average frame rates, it can cause very low minimum frame rates making for a lot choppier game play.

Other games like fear are very GPU dependent. fear is single threaded and tends to mostly benefit from a better video card.

In general, dual core CPU's like the Athlon X2 or Core 2 Duo are fine for gaming now and with those CPU's single video card systems are more GPU dependent. There will still be games or parts of game that are CPU dependent. Oblivion around towns with lots of NPC's for example. Or crysis during times of heavy AI action/ physics. But with the Athlon XP, things are different.
a b U Graphics card
May 7, 2008 2:32:08 PM

Supreme Commander benefits a lot from 1 to 2 to 4 cores, especially with high unit count and details turned up. ( I have played it on my systems each with a single HT, dual-core and my q6600)
May 8, 2008 1:41:37 AM



I HAVE IT!!!

The answer came to me today, in a vision of feudal Japan.

Suffice it to say that I have decided to save the money that I would have spent on an AGP card and buy a whole new PCI-E rig.

Yes, this will be much more beneficial, and frankly, I'm surprised that none of you suggested this before,seeing that you are the purported givers of advice up in this piece.

I'm sorry that none of your answers were helpful to me,indeed you all must feel completely humiliated.

It's okay.Some answers a man must simply find on his own.However, I'm sure there is someone, maybe even two people, but probably not, who could benefit from your amateur, yet sincere efforts.

Adieu my little ones.

Keep on doin whatever it is you do!




Lousy bums.







By the way, could anybody help me pick out some stuff for my new computer sometime?When you're not busy, of course.

Just PM me.

I NEED LINKS.I can't stand tryin to find stuff on this internet crap chute.Or is it crap shoot?Anyway, this computer SUCKS for some reason!

Also, if you could explain to me what the particular things are,how they work and why, who says so, who's big idea it was to make the thing in the first place, and whether or not they wanna fight about it,that would be greatly appreciated.I'll probably need help putting it together,too.I can cover air fare out here, but you're on your own once I'm satisfied that I've given you ample time and opportunity to prove yourself a competent technician/hot dog vendor/pet massage therapist.Hey, anybody give japanese lessons in here?Thinkin of becoming a samurai.My current gig is NOT working out.My boss is such a jerk.I always dreamed of roaming the countryside defending the weak and oppressed, all the while flailing about a long, EXTREMELY sharp instrument of death and dismemberment.Dream about it alot at work, coincidentally.Then my boss comes up yellin something about focusing and tasks, and I'm like, "Whatever!".I am so outta there as soon as I learn to say sayonara in japanese.That'll cheese em off good.I hate sushi though, might as well be eatin raw fish or something.Probably way better'n THAT crap!Ha!Where's Meatwad, anyway?Gotta try out meh new fishin rod, and he looks alot like a big lump of catfish dough.



a c 143 U Graphics card
May 8, 2008 1:49:03 AM

Are you smoking something???
a b U Graphics card
May 8, 2008 2:01:31 AM



LOL, alrighty then. The very first response by emp told him/her that already.

May 8, 2008 2:23:58 AM

Ooooh,no.I'm sorry.

The correct spelling is f-a-c-e-t-i-o-u-s.Yeah.So close.

Hey, you gave it your best shot though, and you did come away with that lovely dinette set, the weekend getaway too, don't forget that.

Yeah.

Bob tell them about their parting gifts just for being with us today.



Bob.



BOB.
May 8, 2008 3:04:59 AM

I'm sorry guys,I assume too much familiarity with all this silliness.

Seriously you've all been really helpful and alot of fun to toy talk with.

Maybe I'll put all this good advice to practice.

Maybe.
!