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HDTV output, lets talk dongles.

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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May 9, 2008 2:46:55 PM

Alright, I'm currently looking at ATI 3650 and 3850 AGP cards, for my old rig (P4 3.0), for the main purpose of DXVA harware decoding.

My concerns at the moment are on HDTV output. I currently have my HDTV connected to my 6600gt via a component dongle (9pin svideo to component).
I've already run 20ft of component cable, (and audio) to my 1080i (true native 1080i) CRT HDTV. It works great, but i want DXVA decoding.

So, when i look at available AGP ATI cards (3650 and 3850), the situation is some cards come with the necessary component dongle (7pin svideo to component) and some come with a dvi to hdmi dongle (proprietary ATI dongle for 5.1 passthrough audio over HDMI).

The thing is, I want both. Well I definitely want a component dongle for now, as I've already got the cable run, and i will want hdmi with sound, when/if i buy a blu-ray reader.

So my question is, do all ATI HD3000 cards support both component output, AND audio over HDMI (throught a special DVI to HDMI dongle)?

At first glance it appears, no, they don't. When browsing the specifications of some cards, they either list they support HDMI audio pass through, or they support YPrPb (HDTV component output). not both.

However, I suspect these specifications may simply mean what they support out of the box. Meaning they support whatever dongle that it comes with... but it could support the other, if i buy the apropriate dongle.
For instance, the Sapphire 3850 AGP comes with only a component dongle. The specifications do not list it supports audio over HDMI. but.. if i buy the right ATI DVI to HDMI dongle, will it support it?
Another example, the HIS 3850 AGP, comes with a DVI to HDMI dongle. It lists it supports 5.1 audio over HDMI. It does NOT list it has component HDTV YPrPb output. However, it does have the 7pin svideo connector, i can see that. If I bought the right component dongle, will this card support it?
I'm hoping that all HD3000 support both outputs, its just which dongle they come with......?

Then there's the cheaper powercolor hd3650. It will suffice for DXVA, but it comes with NO DONGLES. The idea of finding both dongles and getting them shipped to me, has outweighed any savings of buying the 3650 over the 3850.
I'd probably buy the sapphire 3850, as it comes with the component dongle i want for the meantime. and get the HDMI dongle if/when i want it.

anybody count how many times i typed "dongle"? hah

sorry for this long winded and redundant post. i'm just trying to make clear my situation.

please no "kill agp" posts, or "just get a new computer" posts.

thanks.
May 9, 2008 3:46:33 PM

just get a new computer






















On second hand, visit my dongle thread further up the forum.
May 9, 2008 6:45:14 PM

hixbot said:

So my question is, do all ATI HD3000 cards support both component output, AND audio over HDMI (throught a special DVI to HDMI dongle)?


All chips do, the card support is left up to the AIB and what output/connections/features they want on the card. The TMDs does the DVI-HDMI, and the RAMDAC does the component. However how that information gets from points A to point B depends on the card maker unfortunately, so you will need to research them, I'm not familiar enough with enough of the different lines to tell, but if you contact the ones you think might do it (look at NewEgg for the pics of the output bracket) then the AIBs themselves should be able to confirm/deny this.

Quote:
However, I suspect these specifications may simply mean what they support out of the box. Meaning they support whatever dongle that it comes with... but it could support the other, if i buy the apropriate dongle.
For instance, the Sapphire 3850 AGP comes with only a component dongle. The specifications do not list it supports audio over HDMI. but.. if i buy the right ATI DVI to HDMI dongle, will it support it?
Another example, the HIS 3850 AGP, comes with a DVI to HDMI dongle. It lists it supports 5.1 audio over HDMI. It does NOT list it has component HDTV YPrPb output. However, it does have the 7pin svideo connector, i can see that. If I bought the right component dongle, will this card support it?
I'm hoping that all HD3000 support both outputs, its just which dongle they come with......?


While and edjucated assumption, I wouldn't rely on it, just because the AIBs may do something with the board layout to not support it, just like they did in the past where some 'Svideo' output holes were 4/7/9 pin depending on the hardware put on the board by the AIB. I'd make certain first. And IMO stick with something that comes with the dongle. I wouldn't be surprised if some HD3650s come with dongles, but they would be special bundle versions. HIS did this with the HD2400 series where most didn't have HDMI dongles, but their special package more geared towards HTPCs came with everything and more than most HD2600 packages.

Quote:
It works great, but i want DXVA decoding.


Just FYI be sure to check that it works on those AGP cards, last time I chatted with Cleeve (reviewer here) he mentioned there was still hardware acceleration limits on the AGP cards' drivers. Be sure to check that with ATi first. I know they pushed a recent huge AGP update, but not sure if that was included.

Quote:
please no "kill agp" posts, or "just get a new computer" posts.


How about I just kill that one, nah, AGP sucks! But we gave other info too. :kaola: 
May 10, 2008 4:23:51 AM

hey thanks for the great informative reply.

i'll just rely on what is listed supported out of the box. and component-out is a must at the moment.
if i end up not getting sound over hdmi, i can live with that. i do know that it promises HDCP, and i can use spdif for sound if i must.

the only 3650 agp i can get easily, is the powercolor 3650 agp. it comes with no dongles, for $90 Canadian (it claims it has compnent out, just no dongle).
i can get the saphire 3850 agp for $160 (with componet dongle).
considering, that i would need to find the right component dongle, order it from an american site (international orders are a pain) and pay more shipping.
i just decided to buy the 3850. yeah i know its overkill, and my system would bottleneck it to hell in games..
but i just want that dxva
and buying a motherboard that has support for my 5 IDE HD's and IDE DVD, buying a processor, ram, and pcie video card, is gonna cost me more than $160 in total. i'd rather spend serious cash on a complete new gaming rig when i feel i'm ready for that step. for now, my P4 does eveything i need it to, except decode HD. i dont mind spending $160 for that.

as for DXVA over AGP, i have read lots of speculation about driver problems, but no concrete info. i got tired of waiting around for info that may never come, as AGP is not often part of tech sites' test systems. all ATI will tell me is it that the AGP cards have AVIVO and that they support hardware acceleration.
so, i'll take a gamble and try it myself. i figure i can promptly sell the card if its no good to me. there seems to be considerable demand for AGP's fastest card.
!