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need advice on a LCD flat panel

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Anonymous
August 10, 2005 4:48:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

a friend of mine referred me to this group because he said the posters here
really know their stuff.

Have yall heard anything about the westinghouse 37 inch lcds they sell at
best buy? they are a great price, picture seems decent. I hate to spend 2K
more for a little improvement in quality. Any feedback yall can give me
will be appreciated. Thanks.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=6998378&t...

More about : advice lcd flat panel

August 10, 2005 7:07:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Howlee wrote:
> a friend of mine referred me to this group because he said the posters here
> really know their stuff.
>
> Have yall heard anything about the westinghouse 37 inch lcds they sell at
> best buy? they are a great price, picture seems decent. I hate to spend 2K
> more for a little improvement in quality. Any feedback yall can give me
> will be appreciated. Thanks.
>
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=6998378&t...
>
>
>
You're the one that has to watch it. If you like the picture, buy it...
But as with most things, you pretty much get what you pay for.

BTW, Westinghouse doesn't make these TV's....it's from some Taiwan or
Chinese company that has licensed the name.
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 7:07:32 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Curmudgeon" <curmudgeon@buzzoff.net> wrote in message
news:qesKe.385$XL3.29@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
> Howlee wrote:
>> a friend of mine referred me to this group because he said the posters
>> here really know their stuff.
>>
>> Have yall heard anything about the westinghouse 37 inch lcds they sell at
>> best buy? they are a great price, picture seems decent. I hate to spend
>> 2K more for a little improvement in quality. Any feedback yall can give
>> me will be appreciated. Thanks.
>>
>> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=6998378&t...
>>
>>
>>
> You're the one that has to watch it. If you like the picture, buy it...
> But as with most things, you pretty much get what you pay for.
>
> BTW, Westinghouse doesn't make these TV's....it's from some Taiwan or
> Chinese company that has licensed the name.

C

Thanks for your response. The picture looks fine, but I am a newbie. All I
do is watch a movie here and there and basic cable when i get a chance. Is
there anything that you would recommend that the most bang for the buck? I
have to get it from best buy since i have big credit from my current TV.
Related resources
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 7:41:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Howlee (Sampsonanddeliah1@nospammm.yahoo.com) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
> Have yall heard anything about the westinghouse 37 inch lcds they sell at
> best buy? they are a great price, picture seems decent. I hate to spend 2K
> more for a little improvement in quality. Any feedback yall can give me
> will be appreciated. Thanks.
>
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=6998378&t...

Basically, it's a very large computer monitor. It has no tuner of any
kind, so you'll need an external STB for anything (cable, OTA, satellite).

The price is OK, but I'd spend the $2K more for the new Sony KDS-R50XBR1:

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-i0rn4fmXP6m/cgi-bin/ProdVi...

- 50" instead of 37"...HDTV really shines on bigger displays
- built-in OTA HDTV tuner and CableCard digital cable tuner
- a *lot* more inputs, including VGA, and HDMI instead of DVI
- it's a Sony XBR

--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/PaperOrPlastic.gif
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 8:25:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Jeff Rife" <wevsr@nabs.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d64225acbb7935989ef1@news.nabs.net...
> Howlee (Sampsonanddeliah1@nospammm.yahoo.com) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
>> Have yall heard anything about the westinghouse 37 inch lcds they sell at
>> best buy? they are a great price, picture seems decent. I hate to spend
>> 2K
>> more for a little improvement in quality. Any feedback yall can give me
>> will be appreciated. Thanks.
>>
>> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=6998378&t...
>
> Basically, it's a very large computer monitor. It has no tuner of any
> kind, so you'll need an external STB for anything (cable, OTA, satellite).
>
> The price is OK, but I'd spend the $2K more for the new Sony KDS-R50XBR1:
>
> http://www.crutchfield.com/S-i0rn4fmXP6m/cgi-bin/ProdVi...
>
> - 50" instead of 37"...HDTV really shines on bigger displays
> - built-in OTA HDTV tuner and CableCard digital cable tuner
> - a *lot* more inputs, including VGA, and HDMI instead of DVI
> - it's a Sony XBR
>
> --
> Jeff Rife |
> | http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/PaperOrPlastic.gif

What would you recommend for a LCD flat screen? I need one to hang. I can
get a 32" sharp aquos for the same price. The 37 inch will run me about
1.75 times that price.
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 10:33:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Howlee (Sampsonanddeliah1@nospammm.yahoo.com) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
> What would you recommend for a LCD flat screen? I need one to hang.

I wouldn't. There aren't any that have decent price/performance. You
pay a lot for "hang it on the wall" capability.

--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/ArloNJanis/ClothesHorse.gi...
August 11, 2005 8:26:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Howlee" <Sampsonanddeliah1@nospammm.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:D cudndnSnp9E7WffRVn-gw@giganews.com...
>
> "Jeff Rife" <wevsr@nabs.net> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1d64225acbb7935989ef1@news.nabs.net...
>> Howlee (Sampsonanddeliah1@nospammm.yahoo.com) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
>>> Have yall heard anything about the westinghouse 37 inch lcds they sell
>>> at
>>> best buy? they are a great price, picture seems decent. I hate to spend
>>> 2K
>>> more for a little improvement in quality. Any feedback yall can give me
>>> will be appreciated. Thanks.
>>>
>>> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=6998378&t...
>>
>> Basically, it's a very large computer monitor. It has no tuner of any
>> kind, so you'll need an external STB for anything (cable, OTA,
>> satellite).
>>
>> The price is OK, but I'd spend the $2K more for the new Sony KDS-R50XBR1:
>>
>> http://www.crutchfield.com/S-i0rn4fmXP6m/cgi-bin/ProdVi...
>>
>> - 50" instead of 37"...HDTV really shines on bigger displays
>> - built-in OTA HDTV tuner and CableCard digital cable tuner
>> - a *lot* more inputs, including VGA, and HDMI instead of DVI
>> - it's a Sony XBR
>>
>> --
>> Jeff Rife |
>> | http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/PaperOrPlastic.gif
>
> What would you recommend for a LCD flat screen? I need one to hang. I
> can get a 32" sharp aquos for the same price. The 37 inch will run me
> about 1.75 times that price.
>

I like my Samsung LCD. I compared pictures at Best Buy with Sharp, Toshiba
and Westinghouse among others. it was the best. The Sharp had deeper
blacks but it was a black without detail. The Samsung was black with
detail. I've had it 7 months and it is beautiful.

BC
August 11, 2005 8:26:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

BC wrote:

>"Howlee" <Sampsonanddeliah1@nospammm.yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:D cudndnSnp9E7WffRVn-gw@giganews.com...
>
>
>>"Jeff Rife" <wevsr@nabs.net> wrote in message
>>news:MPG.1d64225acbb7935989ef1@news.nabs.net...
>>
>>
>>>Howlee (Sampsonanddeliah1@nospammm.yahoo.com) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Have yall heard anything about the westinghouse 37 inch lcds they sell
>>>>at
>>>>best buy? they are a great price, picture seems decent. I hate to spend
>>>>2K
>>>>more for a little improvement in quality. Any feedback yall can give me
>>>>will be appreciated. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>>http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=6998378&t...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Basically, it's a very large computer monitor. It has no tuner of any
>>>kind, so you'll need an external STB for anything (cable, OTA,
>>>satellite).
>>>
>>>The price is OK, but I'd spend the $2K more for the new Sony KDS-R50XBR1:
>>>
>>>http://www.crutchfield.com/S-i0rn4fmXP6m/cgi-bin/ProdVi...
>>>
>>>- 50" instead of 37"...HDTV really shines on bigger displays
>>>- built-in OTA HDTV tuner and CableCard digital cable tuner
>>>- a *lot* more inputs, including VGA, and HDMI instead of DVI
>>>- it's a Sony XBR
>>>
>>>--
>>>Jeff Rife |
>>> | http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/PaperOrPlastic.gif
>>>
>>>
>>What would you recommend for a LCD flat screen? I need one to hang. I
>>can get a 32" sharp aquos for the same price. The 37 inch will run me
>>about 1.75 times that price.
>>
>>
>>
>
>I like my Samsung LCD. I compared pictures at Best Buy with Sharp, Toshiba
>and Westinghouse among others. it was the best. The Sharp had deeper
>blacks but it was a black without detail. The Samsung was black with
>detail. I've had it 7 months and it is beautiful.
>
>BC
>
>
>
>
>
I like (and use) LCD also. However, the typical drawback with LCD's is
the display refresh rate/bandwidth. Also, LCD's usually have problems
reresenting deep black (typically a function of its contrast ratio).

Be sure when you check one out, to make sure that....
a) the typical slow moving scenery is replaced by action scenes. The
faster the better. Watch the detail/blurry iritation factor for
yourself. It will vary from set/manufacture along the price ranges.

b) if possible take note of scenery that includes deep black. More
ambient light in the room makes this more of a challenge - so that could
be another criteria to make your own subjective judgements. Meaning,
the darker the viewing room, the better the contrast & performance of
the typical LCD display.

Having said all that - LCD is my personal preference for
price/value/performance.
Anonymous
August 11, 2005 8:26:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Bryan" <bryan@news.net> wrote in message
news:Xo-dnTTc2YGHRWffRVn-hw@comcast.com...
>
>
> BC wrote:
>
>>"Howlee" <Sampsonanddeliah1@nospammm.yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:D cudndnSnp9E7WffRVn-gw@giganews.com...
>>
>>>"Jeff Rife" <wevsr@nabs.net> wrote in message
>>>news:MPG.1d64225acbb7935989ef1@news.nabs.net...
>>>
>>>>Howlee (Sampsonanddeliah1@nospammm.yahoo.com) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
>>>
>>
>>I like my Samsung LCD. I compared pictures at Best Buy with Sharp,
>>Toshiba and Westinghouse among others. it was the best. The Sharp had
>>deeper blacks but it was a black without detail. The Samsung was black
>>with detail. I've had it 7 months and it is beautiful.
>>
>>BC
>>

>>
> I like (and use) LCD also. However, the typical drawback with LCD's is
> the display refresh rate/bandwidth. Also, LCD's usually have problems
> reresenting deep black (typically a function of its contrast ratio).
>
> Be sure when you check one out, to make sure that....
> a) the typical slow moving scenery is replaced by action scenes. The
> faster the better. Watch the detail/blurry iritation factor for yourself.
> It will vary from set/manufacture along the price ranges.
>
> b) if possible take note of scenery that includes deep black. More
> ambient light in the room makes this more of a challenge - so that could
> be another criteria to make your own subjective judgements. Meaning, the
> darker the viewing room, the better the contrast & performance of the
> typical LCD display.
>
> Having said all that - LCD is my personal preference for
> price/value/performance.
>
>
Thanks for the feedback. I am now stuck between the Sharp Aquos 32 inch, the
LG 37 inch lcd, and the westinghouse. Westinghouse and Sharp are about the
same price at best buy- $2K. The LG however is 2500. They all seem to get
a little bit blurry when watching super fast scenes, however i just assumed
it came with the technology. I currently have a 46 inch rear proj Toshiba
so the 32 inch seems kind of small. Again, I have spent an hour at best buy
trying to figure out what picutre looks better....

the test goes on...
August 11, 2005 1:41:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Bryan" <bryan@news.net> wrote in message
news:Xo-dnTTc2YGHRWffRVn-hw@comcast.com...

> b) if possible take note of scenery that includes deep black. More
> ambient light in the room makes this more of a challenge - so that could
> be another criteria to make your own subjective judgements. Meaning, the
> darker the viewing room, the better the contrast & performance of the
> typical LCD display.

You have that backwards. The LCD displays are perceived to have better
contrast and deeper blacks when the ambient light levels are higher. This is
because the eyes apertures will constrict under brighter light levels and
make the blacks appear more black.

I actually prefer LCD's to plasma's by a wide margin. Large LCD's generally
have higher resolution than equivalent sized plasma's which is a big benefit
for both regular NTSC signals and HDTV as long as the set has the pixel
processing to take advantage of the extra pixels.

Spanky
Anonymous
August 11, 2005 2:46:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Howlee wrote:
>
> Thanks for the feedback. I am now stuck between the Sharp Aquos 32 inch, the
> LG 37 inch lcd, and the westinghouse. Westinghouse and Sharp are about the
> same price at best buy- $2K. The LG however is 2500. They all seem to get
> a little bit blurry when watching super fast scenes, however i just assumed
> it came with the technology. I currently have a 46 inch rear proj Toshiba
> so the 32 inch seems kind of small. Again, I have spent an hour at best buy
> trying to figure out what picutre looks better....
>
> the test goes on...

I have not been impressed with the black levels of the Westinghouse
LCD TVs that I have seen in the store and the picture quality in
general. Yes, they are comparatively inexpensive but all the Taiwan made
LCDs that I have seen have high black levels which wipe out detail in
dark scenes and also have very mediocre or noisy pictures for SD
sources. If the Sharp and Westinghouse LCD TVs are the same price at the
32" size, I would take the Sharp any day of the week - although you have
to weigh which has which features that matter to you: ATSC tuner, HDMI
port, VGA port and so on.

Alan F
Anonymous
August 11, 2005 3:04:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Howlee wrote:

> ...
>
>Thanks for the feedback. I am now stuck between the Sharp Aquos 32 inch, the
>LG 37 inch lcd, and the westinghouse. Westinghouse and Sharp are about the
>same price at best buy- $2K. The LG however is 2500. They all seem to get
>a little bit blurry when watching super fast scenes, however i just assumed
>it came with the technology. I currently have a 46 inch rear proj Toshiba
>so the 32 inch seems kind of small. Again, I have spent an hour at best buy
>trying to figure out what picutre looks better....
>
>the test goes on...
>

Have you (or has anyone in the group) tried the 32-inch Sony KLVS32A10
in comparison to other sets? This Sony is new to Canada at C$2600,
although I understand it's been available in the US at $2000 for some time,
with some good reviews.
Anonymous
August 11, 2005 8:55:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 23:51:37 -0500, Bryan <bryan@news.net> wrote:

>
>
>BC wrote:
>
>>"Howlee" <Sampsonanddeliah1@nospammm.yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:D cudndnSnp9E7WffRVn-gw@giganews.com...
>>
>>
>>>"Jeff Rife" <wevsr@nabs.net> wrote in message
>>>news:MPG.1d64225acbb7935989ef1@news.nabs.net...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Howlee (Sampsonanddeliah1@nospammm.yahoo.com) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Have yall heard anything about the westinghouse 37 inch lcds they sell
>>>>>at
>>>>>best buy? they are a great price, picture seems decent. I hate to spend
>>>>>2K
>>>>>more for a little improvement in quality. Any feedback yall can give me
>>>>>will be appreciated. Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=6998378&t...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>Basically, it's a very large computer monitor. It has no tuner of any
>>>>kind, so you'll need an external STB for anything (cable, OTA,
>>>>satellite).
>>>>
>>>>The price is OK, but I'd spend the $2K more for the new Sony KDS-R50XBR1:
>>>>
>>>>http://www.crutchfield.com/S-i0rn4fmXP6m/cgi-bin/ProdVi...
>>>>
>>>>- 50" instead of 37"...HDTV really shines on bigger displays
>>>>- built-in OTA HDTV tuner and CableCard digital cable tuner
>>>>- a *lot* more inputs, including VGA, and HDMI instead of DVI
>>>>- it's a Sony XBR
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>Jeff Rife |
>>>> | http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/PaperOrPlastic.gif
>>>>
>>>>
>>>What would you recommend for a LCD flat screen? I need one to hang. I
>>>can get a 32" sharp aquos for the same price. The 37 inch will run me
>>>about 1.75 times that price.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>I like my Samsung LCD. I compared pictures at Best Buy with Sharp, Toshiba
>>and Westinghouse among others. it was the best. The Sharp had deeper
>>blacks but it was a black without detail. The Samsung was black with
>>detail. I've had it 7 months and it is beautiful.
>>
>>BC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>I like (and use) LCD also. However, the typical drawback with LCD's is
>the display refresh rate/bandwidth. Also, LCD's usually have problems
>reresenting deep black (typically a function of its contrast ratio).
>
>Be sure when you check one out, to make sure that....
>a) the typical slow moving scenery is replaced by action scenes. The
>faster the better.
....
I would recommend checking also slower movement such as panning and
scrolling text.
Different processing gives different behaviour.

At least when upsampling SD, some of the blurring comes from the image
processing (or the material it self).
Many blurring scenes are still blurred when I freeze the picture with
the Freeze function on my LCD-TV so that is not introduced by slow
response in the panel.


>b) if possible take note of scenery that includes deep black. More
>ambient light in the room makes this more of a challenge - so that could
>be another criteria to make your own subjective judgements.

Well, isn't it the other way around? With low ambient light, you need
deeper black level to make it look black instead of grey.
"Black" is very relative to what you compare and the surrounding
brightness.

One effect that can be seen in well lit stores is that certain plasma
screens gives much lighter grey than many LCD-panels because of the
treatment or material of the screen surface. The same can be noticed
with the panels that have a very gloss surface. At certain levels of
ambient light, you see an image of yourself reflecting in this type of
screen especially in the areas that should be dark.

If it is difficult to see details in the dark areas because of too
much ambient light, maybe more overall brightness is needed.
It can also be caused by the "demo settings" that gives too much
contrast (for the screen to handle).

Maybe the amplitude resolution in dark levels varies between models,
but in general, the contrast and brightness settings need to be
adjusted so that "almost black" can be distinguished from the lowest
level of dark,dark grey the panel can create.
....
>the darker the viewing room, the better the contrast & performance of
>the typical LCD display.

With an LCD panel, I think the best results are achieved with some
ambient light left on. The level presented as ambient on "DVE" (is it
20%?) works good. In a dark room the black level will look dark grey.

>
>Having said all that - LCD is my personal preference for
>price/value/performance.

Same here, adding the (mostly) smooth, blink free and reflection free
presentation.
/Jan
Anonymous
August 11, 2005 8:55:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Jan B" <nospam@nospam.se> wrote in message
news:42fb7a02.65181596@wingate...
> On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 23:51:37 -0500, Bryan <bryan@news.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>BC wrote:
>>
>>>"Howlee" <Sampsonanddeliah1@nospammm.yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>news:D cudndnSnp9E7WffRVn-gw@giganews.com...
>>>>>
>>>>What would you recommend for a LCD flat screen? I need one to hang. I
>>>>can get a 32" sharp aquos for the same price. The 37 inch will run me
>>>>about 1.75 times that price.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>I like my Samsung LCD. I compared pictures at Best Buy with Sharp,
>>>Toshiba
>>>and Westinghouse among others. it was the best. The Sharp had deeper
>>>blacks but it was a black without detail. The Samsung was black with
>>>detail. I've had it 7 months and it is beautiful.
>>>
>>>BC
>>>
>>>
>>I like (and use) LCD also. However, the typical drawback with LCD's is
>>the display refresh rate/bandwidth. Also, LCD's usually have problems
>>reresenting deep black (typically a function of its contrast ratio).
>>
>>Be sure when you check one out, to make sure that....
>>a) the typical slow moving scenery is replaced by action scenes. The
>>faster the better.
> ...
> I would recommend checking also slower movement such as panning and
> scrolling text.
> Different processing gives different behaviour.
>
> At least when upsampling SD, some of the blurring comes from the image
> processing (or the material it self).
> Many blurring scenes are still blurred when I freeze the picture with
> the Freeze function on my LCD-TV so that is not introduced by slow
> response in the panel.
>
>
>>b) if possible take note of scenery that includes deep black. More
>>ambient light in the room makes this more of a challenge - so that could
>>be another criteria to make your own subjective judgements.
>
> Well, isn't it the other way around? With low ambient light, you need
> deeper black level to make it look black instead of grey.
> "Black" is very relative to what you compare and the surrounding
> brightness.
>
> One effect that can be seen in well lit stores is that certain plasma
> screens gives much lighter grey than many LCD-panels because of the
> treatment or material of the screen surface. The same can be noticed
> with the panels that have a very gloss surface. At certain levels of
> ambient light, you see an image of yourself reflecting in this type of
> screen especially in the areas that should be dark.
>
> If it is difficult to see details in the dark areas because of too
> much ambient light, maybe more overall brightness is needed.
> It can also be caused by the "demo settings" that gives too much
> contrast (for the screen to handle).
>
> Maybe the amplitude resolution in dark levels varies between models,
> but in general, the contrast and brightness settings need to be
> adjusted so that "almost black" can be distinguished from the lowest
> level of dark,dark grey the panel can create.
> ...
>>the darker the viewing room, the better the contrast & performance of
>>the typical LCD display.
>
> With an LCD panel, I think the best results are achieved with some
> ambient light left on. The level presented as ambient on "DVE" (is it
> 20%?) works good. In a dark room the black level will look dark grey.
>
>>
>>Having said all that - LCD is my personal preference for
>>price/value/performance.
>
> Same here, adding the (mostly) smooth, blink free and reflection free
> presentation.
> /Jan

I think I am leaning towards the mid priced LG 37" LCD they have at best
buy. I can get it for about $2500. Thats $500 more than the Sharp 32"
aquos. Also, i think dropping down from 46 to 32" is too much. 37" is a
minimum size i need. LG seems to have a decent picture as well.
!