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Build 1 vs. Build 2 [Updated: FINAL]

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April 28, 2008 12:37:50 AM

SEE BOTTOM FOR FINAL BUILD



I got another build. Tasks are, again: photoshop, wireless internet, blender, 3ds max, etc.
What is better price/performance.

Build 1:
Monitor
Hanns-G 19" LCD $170
Disk Drive
HP 20X DVD Burner $32
Case
Apevia X-QPACK MicroATX w/420w $80
Hard Drive
Seagate Barracuda ES.2 250gb $80
Video Card
Asus 8500gt 256mb 128-bit $70
Memory
G-Skill 4-gb DDR2-1000 $90
MOBO
Asus P5K-VM LGA 775 MicroATX $110
CPU
Intel q6600 $220 TOTAL: $851

BUILD 2:
Monitor
Hanns-G 19" LCD $170
Disk Drive
HP 20X DVD Burner $32
Case
Apevia X-QPACK MicroATX w/420w $80
Hard Drive
Seagate Barracuda ES.2 250gb $80
Video Card
INCLUDED $00
Memory
G-Skill 4-gb DDR2-1000 $90
MOBO
Gigabyte 780g $100
CPU
Phenom 9850 BE $243 TOTAL: $795

What one is better bang for buck, and he may have to get vista for ~$100, so the intel one may be too steep. Instead of the 9850 BE should I get the 9550 ($200) or 6400 (he uses photoshop more than 3ds max) He doesnt want it overclocked to the point where volts change or diff aftermarket cooler (maybe just 100mhz). THe faster ram will be better for photoshop and stuff right? THE CHEAPER THE BETTER, please help reduce cost without .reducing too much performance, the intel dead end is kind of scary. sorry for any errors this is on crappy laptop.,
Thanks.
April 28, 2008 1:25:31 AM

I prefer the first build, but could I suggest that you should look at an ATI video card instead of an nVidia? From what I hear, ATI has a better picture where nVidia has more raw power, and in your lists of things to do does not include gaming, so it would be better for Photoshop.

There are also about 5 Hanns-G 19" monitors, so if you could post a link to the one you were looking at.
April 28, 2008 1:50:40 AM

@OP:
If you are planing on getting RAM natively higher than DDR2 800 be aware that there will be compatibility issues. Many users reports and my personal testing has shown that there is a very good chance you will run in to issues with RAM higher than DDR2 800, such as DDR2 1066. I recommend you get quality DDR2 800 RAM and run them at 1:1 ratio or overclock the RAM. This issue dose not apply to DDR2 800 RAM that has been overclocked.
-------
What about the PSU? Never skimp on the PSU. Grab your self at least a Tire 3 PSU.

I recommend:
Corsair450/550VX for your build/price.

Also swap the Asus P5K-VM to a P35-DS3L or other P35 based motherboard from Gigabyte/ASUS. The G33 chip set $ucks esp. for OCing. You can OC the Q6600 quite easily.
Related resources
April 28, 2008 2:18:50 AM

Thanks for the info about ATI, your the second person that has said it so I'm assuming your both right, if thats the case, woudnt the integrated video be best? Shadow, are you sure about the ram? I've never heard of anything bad from them, but since I wont overclock anyway would 800mhz be best for cheaper? Will the cpu speed differientiate? The PSU comes with the case.
April 28, 2008 2:36:53 AM

Build 1.

Don't get integrated video if you really want to do stuff like rendering 3d scenes.

In all honesty, I would drop from 4GB to 2GB of RAM and upgrade the graphics card to the 9600GT.

I would buy 1 stick of 2GB RAM and tell him that he needs to buy a second stick of 2GB RAM when he has the cash spare.

Why are you going for the Asus motherboard? I presume because it has wireless? If it doesn't, then don't get it. I find wireless overrated, so would probably go with the GA-P35 instead and save some money. It isn't a microATX board like the Asus you specified though (haven't checked out your case, so I am presuming it is ATX).
April 28, 2008 2:56:06 AM

Build 1

Even thought its a crap graphics card, its a graphics card. It will take off alot of stress from the CPU and RAM and make the computer ultimatley faster.
April 28, 2008 3:42:19 AM

I'll second just about everything Shadow said.

Ram: DDR2 800
PSU: Something that isn't crap that comes with the case. NEVER skimp out on a PSU.
Mobo: I think the Gigabyte p35-DS3L is cheaper, and better in my opinion.
Video card: I don't know enough about ATI to tell you what to get.
April 28, 2008 3:49:31 AM

Build 2.
Just add a video card ati 3650/3850 and you have an excellent built
April 28, 2008 5:51:40 AM

Build 1

Use DD2 800 RAM.

April 28, 2008 6:19:59 AM

This link usually does a good job of scaring people away from Apevia/Aspire PSUs.

http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTMzOSwz...

Quote:
Test #3 sees the bad from Test #2 only get worse. 12v1 and 12v2 are both now out of ATX specification with 12v2 dropping as low as 11.08v at 100v. The efficiency has plummeted to between 65.37% and 66.60% while exhaust temperatures have jumped to between 67c-68c. At this point the unit has also begun to melt and smell horrible.


And that is one that you buy, imagine what you get for free when you buy the case! Whatever you do, make sure you switch your case/PSU bundle, or just dump that PSU and buy a real one. I'm not 100% sure how the 9850 compares to the 6600. Last I heard, none of AMDs quads could compete on a performance level with any of Intels quads.

Depending on the photoshop work, he might be better off with a CRT monitor. LCDs are back lit, and have issues showing true black. Most are also 6bit screens, and can only show ~65,000 "true" colors. If color accuracy is a big thing, then dump the LCD for a CRT.

Another issue is the harddrive. Photo/video work chews up harddrive space, and 250GBs will go quick. You could get the 250GB and add another drive later if $$$ is a concern. I personally wouldn't spring for the server drive. Here is Seagates 7200.10 250GB drive, for only $60 counting shipping.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Because its warrantied for 5 years, if/when it finally dies (out of its warranty period) you'd probably want something bigger/faster anyways. I would get this drive instead.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

7200.11, 320GB, $75 counting shipping. Very fast drive.

I wouldn't decide what build to do until someone can show you which CPU is faster/better for the tasks mentioned.
April 28, 2008 8:01:34 AM

Okay here's an idea, since you seem to be on a tight budget.

CPU - $88 shipped! Best budget build AMD CPU. With 2-3 clicks in the BIOS you up the multiplier (unlocked on this chip) and go from 2.6 gHz to 3-3.2 gHz without messing with anything else. It's a 65w chip (keeps things cool) and a solid performer. Not quite as good as the Phenom, but no slouch either. Only thing with this chip is you have to buy a CPU HSF for it, which you can get a good one for about $25 more.
AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ Brisbane 2.6GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM2 65W Dual-Core Black Edition Processor - Retail

CPU HSF - $25 shipped! Best budget CPU HSF for AMD CPU's right now. Performance is good and it doesn't break the bank!
ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 64 Pro 92mm CPU Cooler - Retail

Mobo - $98 shipped!!! 780g mobo and micro ATX!!
BIOSTAR TFORCE TA780G M2+ AM2+/AM2 AMD 780G Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail

HD - $135 shipped. One of the faster HD's out there. It has plenty of space too. :) 
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD7500AAKS 750GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

Memory - $86 shipped! CAS 4 DDR2 800mHz. Good for AM2 CPU's, which the 5000+ BE is. If you get Phenom processor than get the 1066 mHz DDR2.
A-DATA Vitesta 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail

Case/PSU combo - $90 shipped! Best budget build case/PSU combo for mild gaming systems. This combo has a Antec Earthwatts 380w PSU that has 27A on the 12V rails, so it'll handle quite a bit.
Antec New Solution NSK3480 Black/ Silver 0.8mm cold-rolled steel construction MicroATX Mid Tower Computer Case 380W Power Supply - Retail
or if you want some extra room for upgrades, get this for $130 - $30 MIR = $100. It has a 500w Earthwatts PSU w/41A on the 12V rails.
Antec Sonata III 500 Black 0.8mm cold rolled steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 500W Power Supply - Retail

GPU - $157 shipped!! One of the better GPU's out there in this price range. You can use the 90 day "Step Up" program to upgrade to the latest GPU's within the 90 day timeframe and only pay the difference!!!
EVGA 512-P3-N861-AR GeForce 9600GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail

DVD Burner - $33 shipped!! Retail version, which comes with all of the necessary software to read/burn DVD's!!!
LITE-ON Black 20X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 20X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA DVD Burner with LightScribe - Retail

Total ~$703 shipped!!! Obviously you can changeout whatever parts you like, but I think this is a very nice build for a budget build. The 9600gt GPU isn't necessary, but will help out alot, especially when you want to load up a game and play it. You could substitute the 9600gt with a 3850 or a 3870 GPU, if you prefer those (because of the image quality). The 3850 is similarly priced and the 3870 is about $20-30 more. You can decide if that is what you want. Also if you go with a Phenom or upgrade the GPU, I'd suggest getting the Antec Sonata III case/PSU combo. This will give you enough room for upgrades and only costs about $10 more (after MIR's).
April 28, 2008 11:08:37 AM

akore said:
Thanks for the info about ATI, your the second person that has said it so I'm assuming your both right, if thats the case, woudnt the integrated video be best? Shadow, are you sure about the ram? I've never heard of anything bad from them, but since I wont overclock anyway would 800mhz be best for cheaper? Will the cpu speed differientiate? The PSU comes with the case.

1. Yes I am sure about the problem. Just Google in RAM problems with DDR2 1066.

2. The PSUs that come with the case are cr@p.
April 28, 2008 7:32:17 PM

Ok, did some digging for articles. Had some issues finding some that dealt with the programs your running, but I did find one.

http://www.techspot.com/review/93-amd-phenom-9850-black...

I linked to the 3ds max page. For this program, it looks like they are pretty much a draw. I couldn't find anything about PS. At this point you should be looking at other tests and power/heat. Look around, I'm sure you'll see that the Q6600 is the better CPU. There is a "new" Q6600 (q9400? q9450?) that is a hair faster, and runs much cooler. I'm not sure if its cheaper or not.

So here is what I'd get.

Monitor
Hanns-G 19" LCD $170
Disk Drive
HP 20X DVD Burner $32

Case/PSU combo - $90 shipped!
This combo has a Antec Earthwatts 380w PSU that has 27A on the 12V rails,

HDD $75 shipped.
7200.11 Seagate 320GB.

Mobo $97 shipped
GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

RAM $101 shipped, not counting $35MIR
OCZ Reaper 4GBs (2x2GB)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

CPU $220 shipped
Q6600. (I looked on Newegg, this is the cheap one.)

Video card $72 shipped, not counting $30MIR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
$70 is much to much for the 8500GT. Here is the 2600pro for $42 once that mail in rebate comes back. A little more then half of your price, with about the same level of performance. Newegg even had a silent 3650 for $70 if you are worried about noise.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

This would be a faster card then the 8500GT, and the same price out the door. Once the rebate comes back, you will have spent only $57, still cheaper then your overpriced 8500GT.

There you go, I'm not sure I'd go with anything less. Out the door your looking at $857, not counting tax if you live in "right" state. I counted $65 in MIR, so the final price would be just under $800, not bad for 4 cores and four gigs of ram. If its still to much you can drop down to the 7200.10 250GB drive I listed, saving another $15. Another option would be to use only 2GBs of ram now, and add the other 2GBs when you put a larger hdd in.

Edit: Forgot to include the links to the new parts... Doh!
April 30, 2008 1:10:14 AM

All right, these are the parts I have picked out. I don't plan on buying them all from NEWEGG.com, I'll buy where cheapest. Should I buy all of the parts at once, or get a better price and buy seperately when on sale/MIR. <--Is that bad, I don't want to find out ram/cpu/mobo is broken after the warranty since I had to wait on some parts. How often does stuff go on sale? Previously I just bought everything w/o sales, but I want to shop smart this time :) 
Build Below.

Monitor
Acer 22" Widescreen
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824009094

Case
Antec New Solution with 380 watt PSU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129035

Optical Drive
LITE-ON DVD Burner
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106072

Harddrive
Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 320gb
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148316

MOBO
Biostar TFORCE 780G
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138105

Thermal Compound
Artic Cooling MX-2
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186020

RAM
A-DATA Vitesta 4GB DDR2-800 (2x2GB)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211282

CPU
AMD Athlon 62 X2 5000+ BE
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103194

CPU Cooler
Artic Cooling Freezer 64 Pro
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185125

OS
Windows Vista Home-Premium 64-Bit SP1
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116488

It stands at about $800, but like I said, I'll shop around for these parts.
I was also thinking of putting in this for hybrid crossfire (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814103055&Tpk=diamond%2b3450) Is it worth it?
Any probelms or recommendations, I'm pretty sure this is it however?
The monitor took a big chunk of it ($220), any other recommendations, cause screen quality is a big necessity (photo work)

Thanks for the help, you guys are great.












April 30, 2008 3:47:34 AM

Good monitor choice with the 8-bit panel. You will probably be able to notice the difference mathematically:

8 bits of 3 colors= 2^8 x 2^8 x 2^8= 256x256x256 = 16,777,216
6 bits of 3 colors= 2^6 x 2^6 x 2^6= 64x64x64= 262,144

The 6-bit panels are able to get around 16.5 million colors through dithering, but those are not all true colors. The 8-bit panel has all 16.7 million colors as true colors. Sorry if that wasn't news to you, but it might be good information for someone else at least.

I don't really know if the graphics card will be worth it, but you will most definitely be able to tell the difference. I'll let someone else answer that question for you. Other than that, it looks really solid for such a low cost.

EDIT: I knew I remembered seeing the 6 bit thing somewhere in this thread, but couldn't find it in my first skim. It came up in 4745454b's post. Oh well, you can't win them all.
April 30, 2008 4:01:03 AM

As I already said, if color matching is important, drop the LCD screen.

I also think you are spending to much on the CPU. $94 + $25 +$13 = $132. You could spend $120 and get a CPU that will outperform that 5000+

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Overclock that bad boy to 3GHz, and the 5000+ BE doesn't have a chance. Even better, you've saved $12. Grab this motherboard for $88 shipped, and you've saved another ~$10.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Add to the $12 you saved earlier, and you've saved almost $25. This is nearly enough (after rebate) to get one of the cards that I linked earlier, and the entire system will run circles around the 5000+. Even better, you don't have a Biostar motherboard, but a Gigabyte P35 motherboard, with a 4xxx series C2D. If you needed to save even more money, you could step down to the ~$70 2xxx series.

I thought the build overall looked good, but I'm not sure about the 5000+ BE. Its to much money counting thermal paste, HSF, etc. Once your spending that much money, it makes more sense to go with a C2D based system.
April 30, 2008 2:43:36 PM

I would go the Core 2 Duo route but they have crappy microATX chipsets, and he wants it in a small form factor PC. (microATX case)
!