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worldwide PDA slump continues

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Anonymous
July 30, 2004 1:00:27 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops (More info?)

http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/07/27/HNworldwidepd...

According to this story, people are buying PDAs less
and the PDA hasn't evolved to meet consumers' needs.

It know it hasn't evolved to meet mine!

I N E E D (I hope the companies can read my telegraphic type)

1 . A G O O D K E Y B O A R D
2 . A B U I L T I N H A R D D R I V E N O T F L A S H
3 . A N O N- R I P O F F P R I C E

But are they going to listen to what I, a consumer, have
to say? Most likely NOT.

If the Market operates as some people claim by
evolutionary principles, then most pdas should be dying out soon.
Ah but if only the companies would die out too.
Anonymous
July 30, 2004 6:16:51 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops (More info?)

ziliath@myway.com (ziliath) wrote in news:6b963d7f.0407292000.12fb2af7
@posting.google.com:

> http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/07/27/HNworldwidepd...
>
> According to this story, people are buying PDAs less
> and the PDA hasn't evolved to meet consumers' needs.
>
> It know it hasn't evolved to meet mine!
>
> I N E E D (I hope the companies can read my telegraphic type)
>
> 1 . A G O O D K E Y B O A R D
> 2 . A B U I L T I N H A R D D R I V E N O T F L A S H
> 3 . A N O N- R I P O F F P R I C E

I think you're in the minority on the first two. I wouldn't buy anything
with a hard drive, because the battery life would be extremely short, and
you'd better not ever drop it. I don't want a keyboard either, because I can
enter grafitti faster than I can punch itty-bitty keys. I use an add-on
keyboard for typing, but I don't want one built into my PDA, which I wouldn't
use and which makes it larger and heavier.

--
Regards,

Stan
Anonymous
July 30, 2004 6:16:52 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops (More info?)

Stan Gosnell <fakename@fakeaddress.com> wrote in message news:<Xns95365E6AA66FDstanghalpc@204.52.135.40>...
> ziliath@myway.com (ziliath) wrote in news:6b963d7f.0407292000.12fb2af7

> > I N E E D (I hope the companies can read my telegraphic type)
> >
> > 1 . A G O O D K E Y B O A R D
> > 2 . A B U I L T I N H A R D D R I V E N O T F L A S H
> > 3 . A N O N- R I P O F F P R I C E
>
> I think you're in the minority on the first two. I wouldn't buy anything
> with a hard drive, because the battery life would be extremely short, and
> you'd better not ever drop it. I don't want a keyboard either, because I can
> enter grafitti faster than I can punch itty-bitty keys. I use an add-on
> keyboard for typing, but I don't want one built into my PDA, which I wouldn't
> use and which makes it larger and heavier.

Well I wasn't clear enough : by good keyboard I mean something like
the original Stowaway, which has 19mm key spacing -- same as a laptop.
The itty-bitty keys are utterly useless, I think.

Hard drives : if Archos can make a video player based on a hard drive
then I suspect a PDA can be done no problem.

Dropping? You better not drop a PDA even without the hard drive.
July 30, 2004 10:18:06 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops (More info?)

Try this...

www.oqo.com



On 29 Jul 2004 21:00:27 -0700, ziliath@myway.com (ziliath) wrote:

>http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/07/27/HNworldwidepd...
>
>According to this story, people are buying PDAs less
>and the PDA hasn't evolved to meet consumers' needs.
>
>It know it hasn't evolved to meet mine!
>
>I N E E D (I hope the companies can read my telegraphic type)
>
>1 . A G O O D K E Y B O A R D
>2 . A B U I L T I N H A R D D R I V E N O T F L A S H
>3 . A N O N- R I P O F F P R I C E
>
>But are they going to listen to what I, a consumer, have
>to say? Most likely NOT.
>
>If the Market operates as some people claim by
>evolutionary principles, then most pdas should be dying out soon.
>Ah but if only the companies would die out too.
Anonymous
July 31, 2004 12:41:24 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops (More info?)

Or this...

http://www.flipstartpc.com/default.asp



<johnny@mail.com> wrote in message
news:444lg05th3ucafujqd1lvvs5f2l1lbsokq@4ax.com...
> Try this...
>
> www.oqo.com
>
>
>
> On 29 Jul 2004 21:00:27 -0700, ziliath@myway.com (ziliath) wrote:
>
> >http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/07/27/HNworldwidepd...
> >
> >According to this story, people are buying PDAs less
> >and the PDA hasn't evolved to meet consumers' needs.
> >
> >It know it hasn't evolved to meet mine!
> >
> >I N E E D (I hope the companies can read my telegraphic type)
> >
> >1 . A G O O D K E Y B O A R D
> >2 . A B U I L T I N H A R D D R I V E N O T F L A S H
> >3 . A N O N- R I P O F F P R I C E
> >
> >But are they going to listen to what I, a consumer, have
> >to say? Most likely NOT.
> >
> >If the Market operates as some people claim by
> >evolutionary principles, then most pdas should be dying out soon.
> >Ah but if only the companies would die out too.
>
Anonymous
July 31, 2004 4:09:33 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops (More info?)

"ziliath" <ziliath@myway.com> wrote in message
news:6b963d7f.0407301312.2e31e932@posting.google.com...
> Stan Gosnell <fakename@fakeaddress.com> wrote in message
news:<Xns95365E6AA66FDstanghalpc@204.52.135.40>...
> > ziliath@myway.com (ziliath) wrote in news:6b963d7f.0407292000.12fb2af7
>
> > > I N E E D (I hope the companies can read my telegraphic type)
> > >
> > > 1 . A G O O D K E Y B O A R D
> > > 2 . A B U I L T I N H A R D D R I V E N O T F L A S H
> > > 3 . A N O N- R I P O F F P R I C E
> >
> > I think you're in the minority on the first two. I wouldn't buy
anything
> > with a hard drive, because the battery life would be extremely short,
and
> > you'd better not ever drop it. I don't want a keyboard either, because
I can
> > enter grafitti faster than I can punch itty-bitty keys. I use an add-on
> > keyboard for typing, but I don't want one built into my PDA, which I
wouldn't
> > use and which makes it larger and heavier.
>
> Well I wasn't clear enough : by good keyboard I mean something like
> the original Stowaway, which has 19mm key spacing -- same as a laptop.
> The itty-bitty keys are utterly useless, I think.
>
> Hard drives : if Archos can make a video player based on a hard drive
> then I suspect a PDA can be done no problem.
>
> Dropping? You better not drop a PDA even without the hard drive.

I suspect your needs would be better met in the laptop market...?

Of course, everybody has their own requirements. Mine are for an excellent
battery life, small and light form factor, and a reliable operating system.
Adding a foldable keyboard is useful, Bluetooth is useful, but not
essential.

--
The DervMan
www.dervman.com
August 1, 2004 3:13:32 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops (More info?)

RE/
>According to this story, people are buying PDAs less
>and the PDA hasn't evolved to meet consumers' needs.

Another theory would be that they have evolved to be what most people want and
they last long enough/work well enough that existing users see no reason to
upgrade. Personally, although I'm reasonably happy with my Clie, I'd look for
*fewer* features rather than more if I had to buy another one.
--
PeteCresswell
Anonymous
August 1, 2004 2:09:45 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops (More info?)

On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 12:09:33 +0100, "DervMan" <dervman@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>I suspect your needs would be better met in the laptop market...?
>
Didn't Toshiba try to address this with the Libretto a few years ago?
It didn't take off then, maybe it would now? Bottom line is
manufacturers produce what makes them money.
August 1, 2004 10:34:30 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops (More info?)

One reason given in Portable Computing magazine is that cell phones have
many of the current PDA features already built-in. For example: Motorola
has a phone that flips open and internally has a keyboard on either side of
the screen, also the screen orients itself automatically to the
use...horizontal when keyboard is open, vertical for "normal" cell phone
operations.

The Sprint Win CE PDA/Cell is cumbersome and very overweight/tall. The Treo
is one of the better PDA/phones..IMHO

I own a Dell X-5 and am very pleased with it..at the current time I see no
need to upgrade to another device.

Michael Osborn

"ziliath" <ziliath@myway.com> wrote in message
news:6b963d7f.0407292000.12fb2af7@posting.google.com...
> http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/07/27/HNworldwidepd...
>
> According to this story, people are buying PDAs less
> and the PDA hasn't evolved to meet consumers' needs.
>
> It know it hasn't evolved to meet mine!
>
> I N E E D (I hope the companies can read my telegraphic type)
>
> 1 . A G O O D K E Y B O A R D
> 2 . A B U I L T I N H A R D D R I V E N O T F L A S H
> 3 . A N O N- R I P O F F P R I C E
>
> But are they going to listen to what I, a consumer, have
> to say? Most likely NOT.
>
> If the Market operates as some people claim by
> evolutionary principles, then most pdas should be dying out soon.
> Ah but if only the companies would die out too.
Anonymous
August 2, 2004 2:05:57 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops (More info?)

"(Pete Cresswell)" <x@y.z> wrote in message news:<qo9og0llqu87n1bj78nmtmd9j9mcp7f1li@4ax.com>...
> RE/
> >According to this story, people are buying PDAs less
> >and the PDA hasn't evolved to meet consumers' needs.
>
> Another theory would be that they have evolved to be what most people want and
> they last long enough/work well enough that existing users see no reason to
> upgrade. Personally, although I'm reasonably happy with my Clie, I'd look for
> *fewer* features rather than more if I had to buy another one.

Your theory is disproven by the fact that Sony has just
excited the PDA market entirely.

The Clie has gone the way of the dodo.

I once bought a Clie and was disappointed with the quality,
so I returned it.

These days it's getting to be that no company will enter
a market unless there's a big profit margin, because their
investors are demanding 20% growth. If that's evolution,
I'd say those investors are artificially selecting for a general
market failure.
Anonymous
August 2, 2004 6:40:55 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops (More info?)

ziliath@myway.com (ziliath) wrote in
news:6b963d7f.0408012105.62eb24e4@posting.google.com:

> Your theory is disproven by the fact that Sony has just
> excited the PDA market entirely.

Well, they didn't excite it very much. Exiting, and leaving fewer players,
doesn't make for much excitement.

> These days it's getting to be that no company will enter
> a market unless there's a big profit margin, because their
> investors are demanding 20% growth. If that's evolution,
> I'd say those investors are artificially selecting for a general
> market failure.
>
The problem is that management is paid far too much, and too much is based on
near-term stock growth. It's becoming rare for any company to focus on long-
term profitability. The greed spawned by Reaganomics in the 80's is dragging
the market down now, and it will likely take a couple more decades to
recover. The days of 20%, or even 10%, growth are gone for the foreseeable
future.

--
Regards,

Stan
Anonymous
August 3, 2004 2:08:59 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops (More info?)

Stan Gosnell <fakename@fakeaddress.com> wrote in message news:<Xns9539627EE410Cstanghalpc@204.52.135.40>...
> ziliath@myway.com (ziliath) wrote in
> news:6b963d7f.0408012105.62eb24e4@posting.google.com:
>
> > Your theory is disproven by the fact that Sony has just
> > excited the PDA market entirely.
>
> Well, they didn't excite it very much. Exiting, and leaving fewer players,
> doesn't make for much excitement.

Weren't they the first to bring aluminum cases to computer users?
Other than that I think they failed.

> > These days it's getting to be that no company will enter
> > a market unless there's a big profit margin, because their
> > investors are demanding 20% growth. If that's evolution,
> > I'd say those investors are artificially selecting for a general
> > market failure.
> >
> The problem is that management is paid far too much, and too much is based on
> near-term stock growth. It's becoming rare for any company to focus on long-
> term profitability. The greed spawned by Reaganomics in the 80's is dragging
> the market down now, and it will likely take a couple more decades to
> recover. The days of 20%, or even 10%, growth are gone for the foreseeable
> future.

What disturbing is how they create money out of thin air, by loaning it
to one another, by speculating on everything. So little is tied to
real, physical products any more. I think that just as communism fell
because it was corrupt and untenable and unresponsive and irresponsibly
manages, so capitalism will too for the same reasons.
Anonymous
August 3, 2004 9:19:01 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops (More info?)

ziliath@myway.com (ziliath) wrote in
news:6b963d7f.0408030908.5b0fcfdb@posting.google.com:

>> Well, they didn't excite it very mvch. Exiting, and leaving fewer
>> players, doesn't make for mvch excitement.
>
> Weren't they the first to bring alvminvm cases to compvter vsers?
> Other than that I think they failed.

Obviovsly my sarcasm failed.
> I think that jvst as commvnism fell
> becavse it was corrvpt and vntenable and vnresponsive and irresponsibly
> manages, so capitalism will too for the same reasons.
>
Commvnism didn't fail. Commvnism has never been tried on the scale of a
state. The Soviet Union did not, ever, practice commvnism. Socialism as
implemented by the 'Commvnist Bloc' had little in common with commvnism, even
thovgh the politicians called themselves commvnists. In reality they
weren't. I can call myself a god, bvt that doesn't make me one.

--
Regards,

Stan
Anonymous
August 4, 2004 1:02:18 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops (More info?)

"Just Me :) " <none@given.out> wrote in message
news:4o8qg01hdnh5o53um66funnur3h9932csq@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 12:09:33 +0100, "DervMan" <dervman@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >I suspect your needs would be better met in the laptop market...?
> >
> Didn't Toshiba try to address this with the Libretto a few years ago?
> It didn't take off then, maybe it would now? Bottom line is
> manufacturers produce what makes them money.

Yes, they did, and they're sweet little devices... except battery life and
software reliability weren't as good as I need... :) 

--
The DervMan
www.dervman.com
Anonymous
August 5, 2004 2:35:06 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops (More info?)

Perhaps you like millions of others overlooked the handheld PC
palmtops that came to the market before the Palm OS types.

Check out www.hpcfactor.com


HPC's have keyboards, modems, PC card drives, and you can install a PC
card or CF hard drive in one if you desire. I have a Jornada 720 and
would not downgrade it for a PocketPC anyday.

John

> I N E E D (I hope the companies can read my telegraphic type)
>
> 1 . A G O O D K E Y B O A R D
> 2 . A B U I L T I N H A R D D R I V E N O T F L A S H
> 3 . A N O N- R I P O F F P R I C E
>
> But are they going to listen to what I, a consumer, have
> to say? Most likely NOT.
>
> If the Market operates as some people claim by
> evolutionary principles, then most pdas should be dying out soon.
> Ah but if only the companies would die out too.
Anonymous
August 5, 2004 3:14:34 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops (More info?)

>
> I think you're in the minority on the first two. I wouldn't buy anything
> with a hard drive, because the battery life would be extremely short, and
> you'd better not ever drop it. I don't want a keyboard either, because I can
> enter grafitti faster than I can punch itty-bitty keys.


You have never used a real PDA with a keyboard like the Jornada 728.


I use an add-on
> keyboard for typing, but I don't want one built into my PDA, which I wouldn't
> use and which makes it larger and heavier.


My point exactly. Adding a keyboard and other hardware to a Palm/PPC
makes it far bulkier than my Jornada 720.
Anonymous
August 5, 2004 3:18:30 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops (More info?)

Amen!! So many managers and execs are paid way, way too much.
Corporate greed is what is costing the economy. These excecs will one
day be judged for their lifestyles.


John

> >
> The problem is that management is paid far too much, and too much is based on
> near-term stock growth. It's becoming rare for any company to focus on long-
> term profitability. The greed spawned by Reaganomics in the 80's is dragging
> the market down now, and it will likely take a couple more decades to
> recover. The days of 20%, or even 10%, growth are gone for the foreseeable
> future.
Anonymous
August 5, 2004 10:19:56 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops (More info?)

johnw_94020@yahoo.com (johnw_94020@yahoo.com) wrote in
news:a9b802d3.0408050935.163dd6a8@posting.google.com:

> HPC's have keyboards, modems, PC card drives, and you can install a PC
> card or CF hard drive in one if you desire. I have a Jornada 720 and
> would not downgrade it for a PocketPC anyday.

And how many of these are in current production and being sold?

You can certainly use whatever works for you, but obviously that model didn't
work for very many people, certainly not enough to justify production for
very long.

--
Regards,

Stan
Anonymous
August 10, 2004 10:39:18 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops (More info?)

Stan Gosnell wrote:
> johnw_94020@yahoo.com (johnw_94020@yahoo.com) wrote in
> news:a9b802d3.0408050935.163dd6a8@posting.google.com:
>>HPC's have keyboards, modems, PC card drives, and you can install a PC
>>card or CF hard drive in one if you desire. I have a Jornada 720 and
>>would not downgrade it for a PocketPC anyday.

> And how many of these are in current production and being sold?

HP seems to have a fascination with subnotebooks. Back in the 1980s
they had some that ran MS-DOS.

But it ain't a PDA if you can't put it in your pocket.

--
John W. Kennedy
"The bright critics assembled in this volume will doubtless show, in
their sophisticated and ingenious new ways, that, just as /Pooh/ is
suffused with humanism, our humanism itself, at this late date, has
become full of /Pooh./"
-- Frederick Crews. "Postmodern Pooh", Preface
!