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AMD Athlon 64 3700+ Video Card Limitation

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May 11, 2008 10:26:22 PM

Hello everyone,

I recently got a hold of an AMD Athlon 64 3700+ Clawhammer (Socket 754) for cheap and I was wondering: What's the best PCIe video card for it? I know it's an old CPU so there is a high chance of it bottlenecking the newer PCIe video cards. Or if that question is too general, will it bottleneck an 8500GT or 8600GT?
May 11, 2008 10:33:04 PM

markiemark said:
Hello everyone,

I recently got a hold of an AMD Athlon 64 3700+ Clawhammer (Socket 754) for cheap and I was wondering: What's the best PCIe video card for it? I know it's an old CPU so there is a high chance of it bottlenecking the newer PCIe video cards. Or if that question is too general, will it bottleneck an 8500GT or 8600GT?

It depends on how cpu intensive a particular game is, but 8600gt should be the limit for most recent games. It'll bottleneck anything faster.
May 11, 2008 10:38:02 PM

Coolio. Thanks for the quick response dagger. Have a good one.
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a c 143 U Graphics card
a b À AMD
May 11, 2008 11:58:03 PM

Just don't expect much, with the 8600GT. That's not a gaming card.

Can you afford an 8800GT now and a CPU/mobo upgrade later? If you can, do it. The 8800GT will be bottlenecked by the CPU until you upgrade, but it will still be better even then. After the upgrade, the difference will be huge.
May 12, 2008 12:00:12 AM

Cpu load is particularily light in 3dmark graphics tests compared to actual game environment. They want to test only the graphics on the graphics portion, using scripted scenes that plays out like a movie. In real game environment, things like AI behavior, pathfinding, and physics calculations all takes a toll.

Trust me, it'll bottleneck.
a b U Graphics card
May 12, 2008 12:29:47 AM

If you game at 1280x1024 or above I'd grab an 8800GS over the 8600GT.

I just got done testing an 8800GS paired with an A64 4000+, X2 4200+ and X2 5600+. Without doubt the CPU held back the card in many games. Single core is pretty lousy for many current games. But that said, other games and higher resolutions in most games, you would still get a nice boost having the GPU power. So basically yes, your CPU will hold you back in some games or parts of some games, but you are still better off than with a wimpier GPU that would just add to the games/ parts of games that you are limited in. It's better to have low fps dips from the CPU than have more chunks of low fps from CPU and GPU.
a b U Graphics card
May 12, 2008 12:33:08 AM

macer1 said:
inform yourself.
............
now if you have all the parts WHY would you upgrade EVERYTHING to get an extra 2k marks or maybe 20 fps


Why would anyone want to spend any money for any amount of increased 3dmarks? Only reason to upgrade is if it betters your gaming experience in your games at your desired resolution, detail settings, and eye candy levels.
May 12, 2008 1:02:54 AM

i probably dont give good advice but here it goes! Id get the best graphics card i could afford. If the cpu bottlenecks then overclock, if it still bottlenecks then underclock the gpu! If u decide to upgrade the cpu then u dont have 2 be stuck with a worthless(my opinion) graphics card. I would go for the 8800gt if u can afford it.
a b U Graphics card
May 12, 2008 1:39:25 AM

I agree, even tho it wont really be balanced, itll still give a better gaming performance
a b U Graphics card
May 12, 2008 2:26:11 AM

8800GT pushes beyond my limit for that system because a $150 card is a bit too much to pay all things considered. Depending on the prices available, the 8600GT or HD2600XT for $50-65 AR, or 8800GS for $100-110 AR seem like the best choices in my eyes. Also depends on the resolution and important games.
a b U Graphics card
May 12, 2008 2:35:58 AM

True, if the game isnt a cpu intensive game, youd get alot out of a good card. But if it is, itll still do better than a lessor card, but not as much as youre paying for, unless a total rig upgrade is for the future
a b U Graphics card
May 12, 2008 2:56:15 AM

Yeah, good point. If it's the first step toward a whole system upgrade, by all means go a little higher like the 8800GT.
a b U Graphics card
May 12, 2008 3:30:01 AM

Saw the question about the AMD 64 3700 socket 754. This is the top of the line processor for the socket. I replaced an AMD 64 3400 Newcastle 2.4 with it. The 3700's 1 Gb L2 Cache makes a substancial performance difference over the 3400. Runs cooler too. The chip runs every bit as good as my 3800 socket 939, but slightly less performancewise as my 4000+ San Diego. My FX55 runs better overall as a work system, but that's to be expected...the 3700 socket 754 #1 chip it's still a very fast chip I enjoy a lot. Anyway, I don't game with the AMD 64 3700 754, but we do a lot of photoshop work and move large files around and burn tons of CDs with Lightscribe usage. It's a 'workshop' computer we use everyday. It works great for what we use it for. I have the chip overclocked to near 2.6GHz, 2 x 1GB Kingston HyperX in single channel (NF3) at near 420 MHz 2-3-2-5. I have a great ABIT NF3 MB that is faster than all get out. And I use a Sapphire 800GTO AGP at 400/1000 MHz. For what is worth, the system is really very fast. Remember these AMD 64 chips killed Pentium 4 a few years ago before C2D. Makes me wonder how Intel survived all those years getting clobbered by AMD 64. My 2 cents.
May 12, 2008 3:56:06 AM

Hey again, thanks for replying. I wasn't planning to upgrade this system anymore after this minor upgrade. Hopefully it'll make it live another year or so. That's why I didn't want a video card too powerful for my CPU since I won't be changing my CPU. And you say the 8600GT isn't a gaming card? The 8800GS is about $50-$60 more. Is it worth the extra cash to get an 8800GS instead of an 8600GT? Will the 8800GS be fine with my 3700+?
a b U Graphics card
May 12, 2008 4:04:06 AM

I ran my AMD 64 3700 socket 754 on a rare PCIE socket 754 SLI MB with two 7600Gts for a while. My son used it playing Counterstrike and WOW. No problem. At the time, it was very fast.
May 12, 2008 11:47:59 AM

markiemark said:
Hello everyone,

I recently got a hold of an AMD Athlon 64 3700+ Clawhammer (Socket 754)


I really dont wanna be a bastard, or a party crasher but i think im goona crash you party. Your gonna get a hard time getting a sckt 754 Mobo. There werent many cpus for that socket, and most mobos were AGP. There was PCIe for them, but i think your putting your money in the wrong horse. That cpus still has some muscle on it, but onesly youll get a really hard tiem getting a mobo.

Hope that CPU was free, not just cheap. Good luck.
a b U Graphics card
May 12, 2008 12:07:05 PM

If you can afford the 8800GS and you game at 1280x1024 or above it would very often be worth the extra money. If it's over budget, consider a $50 8600GT GDDR3. Keep in mind the 8800GS has over twice the potential than the 8600GT. Just you won't always be able to take advantage of it unless you play at high res.

You'd be able to play oblivion at 12x10 very high details and 2xaa/16xaf. (max details if you had a better CPU) The CPU will cause some slowdowns in towns or during battles, and your minimum fps would be lower, but otherwise fine. Crysis would be pretty tough with some cpu related slowdowns, but still playable and alot better on the 8800GS at medium details than the 8600GT.
a b U Graphics card
May 12, 2008 12:10:25 PM

I hope he already has the mobo and just upgraded to the 3700+ from a slower cpu.
May 12, 2008 5:36:21 PM

i don't think there's a socket 754 mobo with pci-e slot. i've never seen one. read tomshardware agp analysis part 1 and 2. the best card for your system will be radeon x1950 xt.
a b U Graphics card
May 12, 2008 6:06:58 PM

agawtrip said:
i don't think there's a socket 754 mobo with pci-e slot. i've never seen one. read tomshardware agp analysis part 1 and 2. the best card for your system will be radeon x1950 xt.


The bunch of noobs replying to this thread regarding socket 754 and the AMD 64 3700 need to think about their trolling skills and move on. If you could find an AMD 3700 new, the processor would cost several hundred dollars. It has been out of production for a long time. It is the only socket 754 CPU with 1 GB L2 cache. Recently OEM AMD 64 3200's have shown up and available new. Socket 754 is still around.

Socket 754 is still in production. The AMD 64 chips rule over their counterpart. Pentium 4. I run multiple 754 systems like this socket 754 PCIE SLI socket 754. The older 754 chips like the 3400 and 3700 far outperform the 754 Sempron processors avalabe today, yet the Semprons are like $25 new and can be the used for a cheap build workstation still today. Of course C2D rules dubes.

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=184&type=expert
May 12, 2008 6:25:04 PM

badge said:
The bunch of noobs replying to this thread regarding socket 754 and the AMD 64 3700 need to think about their trolling skills and move on. If you could find an AMD 3700 new, the processor would cost several hundred dollars. It has been out of production for a long time. It is the only socket 754 CPU with 1 GB L2 cache. Recently OEM AMD 64 3200's have shown up and available new. Socket 754 is still around.

Socket 754 is still in production. The AMD 64 chips rule over their counterpart. Pentium 4. I run multiple 754 systems like this socket 754 PCIE SLI socket 754. The older 754 chips like the 3400 and 3700 far outperform the 754 Sempron processors avalabe today, yet the Semprons are like $25 new and can be the used for a cheap build workstation still today. Of course C2D rules dubes.

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=184&type=expert


wow
its like the legend lives on

i can't believe they're still producing socket 754 mobos with pci-express slot


a b U Graphics card
May 12, 2008 6:28:42 PM

markiemark said:
Hello everyone,

I recently got a hold of an AMD Athlon 64 3700+ Clawhammer (Socket 754) for cheap and I was wondering: What's the best PCIe video card for it? I know it's an old CPU so there is a high chance of it bottlenecking the newer PCIe video cards. Or if that question is too general, will it bottleneck an 8500GT or 8600GT?


Bulletin!

If there's anything you're going to take away from today's review of the EPoX EP-8NPA SLI is that you don't need a super high-end system to get great gaming performance. The combination of a cheaper motherboard and support for cheaper CPUs means EPoX has empowered the general and budget-conscious consumer with access to the same blazing-fast game performance that gamers have been enjoying for the past year.

I use this board eveyday. It is still a nice system we use a a work station with a Radeon x800GTO 400/1000 PCIE. My son used to game on it a lot with the AMD 64 3700, 2 x 7600GT and 2 Gigs PC3200. If you took all the single core CPUs ever released, only the upper end socket 939's would outperform the AMD 3700 socket 754. Of course someones Quad killz it. LOL.

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=184&type=expert&pi...

a b U Graphics card
May 12, 2008 6:30:36 PM

AMD has kept socket 754 around for industry wanting to build super cheap Sempron solutions. Socket 939 has been discontinued. I run 6 or 7 systems.
May 12, 2008 6:45:45 PM

badge thanks for comming out.

I thought i would get troll roasted for saying that the clawhammer is still good.
a b U Graphics card
May 12, 2008 6:49:17 PM

Hey, yep my AMD 64 3700 socket 754 never ceases to amaze me. I also use the AMD 64 FX55 all the time. There will be the day single core is dead.
a b U Graphics card
May 12, 2008 7:26:39 PM

badge said:
Bulletin!

If there's anything you're going to take away from today's review of the EPoX EP-8NPA SLI is that you don't need a super high-end system to get great gaming performance. The combination of a cheaper motherboard and support for cheaper CPUs means EPoX has empowered the general and budget-conscious consumer with access to the same blazing-fast game performance that gamers have been enjoying for the past year.

I use this board eveyday. It is still a nice system we use a a work station with a Radeon x800GTO 400/1000 PCIE. My son used to game on it a lot with the AMD 64 3700, 2 x 7600GT and 2 Gigs PC3200. If you took all the single core CPUs ever released, only the upper end socket 939's would outperform the AMD 3700 socket 754. Of course someones Quad killz it. LOL.

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=184&type=expert&pi...

LOL, Bulletin???? That is a 2.5 year old review. ;) 

Like it or not, games have changed in the past 2.5 years. How does that quote = valid advice today? And a $100 8800GS is faster than anything made back then. Single core now is pretty lame for many of the newer games. That's not to say a single core A64 can't still game for some time to come. it better as I have many such systems.
a b U Graphics card
May 12, 2008 7:48:37 PM

Take a look at these comparisons from a recent S939 shootout I did paired with a stock clocked XFX 8800GS. Notice how much lower the ave and min fps are with the single core A64 4000+ (2.4Ghz San Deigo) vs an X2 4200+ (2.2GHz) and X2 5600+ (2.8GHz) At 16x12 where the 8800GS started to be a limiting factor for the X2's, the two dual core were about equal, while the single was far behind.



I also found even in outdoor sections of Oblivion, there were alot lower dips with the single core 4000+ even if it's average wasn't far behind the X2 4200+. Still playable, but the dips were noticeable at all resolutions in this outdoor run in the forrest. Oblivion max details -

a b U Graphics card
May 12, 2008 8:03:35 PM

I'm not surprised. Single core died a quick death. It's still fun to use the systems and witness the hourglass put to full use when multitasking with XP and DDR. LOL. Actually I just installed Vista 32 on this system I'm using today. ASUS A8N32-SLI deluxe socket 939, 4800X2, 2 GB OCZ Platinum 2-3-2-5 and 2 x 7800GT. The SLI cards get a 5.9 Vista rating! Fresh install, but pretty quick nontheless. Some day I may install a game and catch up to you guys.
a b U Graphics card
May 12, 2008 8:18:07 PM

6 months ago I gamed on an FX-55 myself. I played 200-300 hours of Oblivion on it with a few GPU upgrades during that time. It's still very capable and used as a spare now. Although it sure chugged in crysis.
a b U Graphics card
May 12, 2008 8:33:59 PM

I just put together 2 complete socket 939 systems, mostly form parts laying around. I had to spend a couple of hundred for cases and one MB. A 3800 and 4000. I have them sitting here all updated running perfect in case one of our machines crashes down due to XP SP1! LOL! No realy I had all this stuff and my son's friends are always showing up wanting to know if I have ANYTHING cheap they can use. So, I spent some time building these S 939's recently and now I have a couple of spare systems I can use in a minutes notice. I think I have 13 or 14 complete PC running now. I should get a game. Don't know a thing about characteristics of any particular games. Spend all my time dreaming all ready!
May 13, 2008 5:39:55 AM

Awesome. Thanks for all the help everyone. I chose the 8800GS. But now, after all the discussion, researching, and googling, I find myself wanting to just build a new rig. It looks like anything right now will beat my AMD Athlon 64 3200+, 6800GT system. Anyone else get that funny feeling when making a new pc? lol. Anywho, thanks again.

Oh yeah badge, with that many PCs, you should open an internet cafe or something!
!