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I'm looking for an AGP videocard

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May 14, 2008 6:33:13 PM

Hello,

I'm looking for a cheap, but recent AGP graphics card.
I prefer ATI or nVidia below € 100,- (I'm from the Netherlands :)  )

This one was recommended, but someone else told that DirectX 10 cards will give problems on Windows XP.

Here are some specs:

* NEC PowerMate ML6
* Microsoft Windows XP Professional SP2 (Genuine)
* Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor 2.80 GHz (2 CPUs)
* 768 MB RAM memory (coming soon upgrading to 1 GB or more)
* NVidia GeForce 4 MX 440 with AGP 8x (64 MB VRAM)
* 40 GB harddisk intern
* 160 GB harddisk extern
* DirectX 9.0c
* SoundMAX digital audio
* Belinea default Plug-and-Play monitor at 1024×768×32-bits 85Hz

This PC doesn't have PCI-E slots, only an AGP 8x slot or some PCI slots

I want to game a bit with it.
Games like GTA San Andreas, Sims 2, Battlefield 2, Call of Duty 4 or maby Crysis.

Thanks for the advice!

(But forgive me my English :sarcastic:  )

Kind regards,
Martijn

More about : agp videocard

May 14, 2008 6:46:48 PM

check how much an 3850 agp costs where you live. this is the best agp card out there. probably the last one to be made too. i haven't seen any 8 or 9 nvidia agp series. who knows what amd will do with 4 series. 3850 will last you the longest.
May 14, 2008 6:47:46 PM

oh and i use ati 3870 dx10 card in xp without any issues.
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a c 130 U Graphics card
May 14, 2008 6:51:22 PM

Flitskikker said:
Hello,

I'm looking for a cheap, but recent AGP graphics card.
I prefer ATI or nVidia below € 100,- (I'm from the Netherlands :)  )

This one was recommended, but someone else told that DirectX 10 cards will give problems on Windows XP.

Here are some specs:

* NEC PowerMate ML6
* Microsoft Windows XP Professional SP2 (Genuine)
* Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor 2.80 GHz (2 CPUs)
* 768 MB RAM memory (coming soon upgrading to 1 GB or more)
* NVidia GeForce 4 MX 440 with AGP 8x (64 MB VRAM)
* 40 GB harddisk intern
* 160 GB harddisk extern
* DirectX 9.0c
* SoundMAX digital audio
* Belinea default Plug-and-Play monitor at 1024×768×32-bits 85Hz

This PC doesn't have PCI-E slots, only an AGP 8x slot or some PCI slots

I want to game a bit with it.
Games like GTA San Andreas, Sims 2, Battlefield 2, Call of Duty 4 or maby Crysis.

Thanks for the advice!

(But forgive me my English :sarcastic:  )

Kind regards,
Martijn


Hi Martijn welcome to the forums.
That card is a pretty good match for your system, in fact it is what i would have recomended to you. Dont worry about what you have been told there is no reason the card wont work with XP.
Mactronix :) 
May 14, 2008 6:51:29 PM

Ok, thanks for the info!
I'll look for the 3850. Or is the nVidia GeForce 7600 GS better?

BTW: I see the 3850 has DVI output. Does a VGA to DVI exist? I've a CRT monitor :p 
May 14, 2008 6:55:51 PM

Yes this card is better than the 7600GS and generaly in the box there is at least one DVI to VGA adapter. Check on the manucfacturer website for box contents.
a c 130 U Graphics card
May 14, 2008 6:56:09 PM

Flitskikker said:
Ok, thanks for the info!
I'll look for the 3850. Or is the nVidia GeForce 7600 GS better?

BTW: I see the 3850 has DVI output. Does a VGA to DVI exist? I've a CRT monitor :p 


I looked up The 3850 which would be overkill for your system and its 125 which is why i didnt suggest it :) 
Mactronix
a b U Graphics card
May 14, 2008 6:58:40 PM

Short answer Flits, try for the 3850 AGP, and it should come with 1, or 2 DVI-D to VGA adapters.
May 14, 2008 7:08:09 PM

mactronix said:
I looked up The 3850 which would be overkill for your system and its 125 which is why i didnt suggest it :) 
Mactronix


Why should it overkill my system?
And 125 what? :??: 

Thanks anyway :) 

Kind regards,
Martijn
May 14, 2008 7:13:02 PM

BTW: The 3650 is priced 85€ (131$/67pounds). Is that worth it?
<cannot edit post>
a c 130 U Graphics card
May 14, 2008 7:35:34 PM

Flitskikker said:
BTW: The 3650 is priced 85€ (131$/67pounds). Is that worth it?
<cannot edit post>


Thats ok i cant post properly with out Quoting :( 
Sorry i missed it out € 125, thats what its listed at on the site you linked to.
What i mean is that the card would not be able to use its full potential due to your CPU being a 2.8 P4, it would most likley restrict your frame rates due to not being able to keep the card supplied with info as quickly as the card can use it.
Its not that bad of an issue but its for you to decide if you want to spend extra money on something that you may not see all the benefits of.
On the + side you would definatly be able to use more AA/AF and other enhancements with the 3850.
Mactronix :) 
a b U Graphics card
May 14, 2008 7:39:23 PM

One caution i would make is to be sure your power supply will handle any upgrade in your video card. The card you are using at present requires very little power, the upgraded cards have pretty high power requirements. The 7600 GS is not as powerful as the ATI 3850.
May 14, 2008 7:52:58 PM

Overkill: Definition in context: Adding a component that is too highly ranked compared to the rest of the system, resulting in lackluster performance and disappointing performance-to-price ratio due to the rest of the system bottleneckign that particular component.

Considering that you have a highly unusual dual-P4 setup though, I doubt that your system would -have- to constrain your Graphics Card. Here's what to do if you're considering a 3850:


-Try to get some cheap RAM. Definitely try to bump the RAM up to at least 1.5G, preferably 2GB.

-Consider putting the 160GB external to internal. 160G HDDs are generally faster than 40Gs... well, unless your "40G" happen to be an early generation Raptor...

-Get better monitor? 3850 would be pumping out crazy nuts 100++fps for anything (not crysis) at 1024x768, and it won't be too noticeable. You can definitely play stuff at a much higher resolution... consider leeching a 1280x1024(19in) somewhere, heck, some corporates might even have them in the recycle yard now that people are demanding 24inch... bastards.

But if you're not doing any of these, well, 3650 will do. Or a 2600XT for a -little- (unnoticeable) more performance consuming more power, for possibly a little less. Your pick, either will run most stuff fine at the resolution and are in line with the rest of your components.
May 14, 2008 8:01:49 PM

Because I have an old PC:
I saw in the local "MediaMarkt" (electronical store) an nVidia GeForce 6200 for 19,95€.
Is that a good card? (I think not)
Otherwise, I'll buy the HD3650 online.
Although I prefer buying in shops.

Kind regards,
Martijn
May 14, 2008 8:04:40 PM

Addition to previous post:

Can my power supply handle the 3650/3850/7600GS ?

Kind regards,
Martijn
a c 130 U Graphics card
May 14, 2008 8:05:18 PM

Flitskikker said:
Because I have an old PC:
I saw in the local "MediaMarkt" (electronical store) an nVidia GeForce 6200 for 19,95€.
Is that a good card? (I think not)
Otherwise, I'll buy the HD3650 online.
Although I prefer buying in shops.

Kind regards,
Martijn


I would stick with the 3650 its new tec and will giv eyou access to better image quality and lighting effects.
I have always purchased my upgrades over the internet and have never had a problem, I know what you mean though.
Mactronix :) 
a c 130 U Graphics card
May 14, 2008 8:09:02 PM

Flitskikker said:
Addition to previous post:

Can my power supply handle the 3650/3850/7600GS ?

Kind regards,
Martijn


Did you already list you Power Supply ?
If so i missed it.
Mactronix
May 14, 2008 8:22:20 PM

Go for the 3650, definitely. The HD 2600XT is almost identical too, with the exception of the manufacturing process (65nm vs. 55nm), so if you can find a good deal on that, it would also be recommendable.
May 14, 2008 8:25:31 PM

mactronix said:
Did you already list you Power Supply ?
If so i missed it.
Mactronix


This may be a dumb question, but how can I find out?
Here my motherboard information, maybe that'll help:

NEC Palomar (MS-6763) 1.0
Chipset: Intel i865P/PE/G/i848P rev. A2
Southbridge: 82801EB (ICH5)
LPCIO: Winbond W83627HF

My computer model is NEC PowerMate ML6 (Tower).

I've got Everest on my computer, may I can find it there?

By The Way: I'm getting really good support here! Thanks! :) 
May 14, 2008 8:38:29 PM

The only way to know your PSU is to open the case. Look on the side of the PSU and there should be a sticker with a bunch of specs on it (and manufacturer, etc).
May 14, 2008 8:42:43 PM

Nop, you can't say what is your power supply with this information.

Open your case and look at the box where all the power cable comes together. Tell us the name and power rating (should something like 350Watts) and the maximum amperes on the 12 Volts.

For the video card, if you're going with the 2600XT, take the version with DDR3, the DDR2 version is cheaper but with less performance. Same thing for the 3650, if there any version with DDR2...

From the naming scheme of AMD, the 3670 should be the evolution of the 2600XT but it's very hard to find it, even more in AGP
May 14, 2008 8:49:09 PM

I'll open my case tomorrow ;)  .

Thanks for the good support till now! I really appreciate it! :) 
a c 130 U Graphics card
May 14, 2008 8:51:23 PM

Come on stop it you are making cards up now :) 
"From the naming scheme of AMD, the 3670 should be the evolution of the 2600XT but it's very hard to find it, even more in AGP"
Did you mean 3870 ? that dosent come as an AGP card.
mactronix
May 14, 2008 8:54:16 PM

@Mactronix:
The specs looks the same, only the picture is different.
I'll open my case tomorrow for sureness (I don't know if that's an correct English sentence :p  )

Kind regards,
Martijn
a c 130 U Graphics card
May 14, 2008 8:59:23 PM

Flitskikker said:
@Mactronix:
The specs looks the same, only the picture is different.
I'll open my case tomorrow for sureness (I don't know if that's an correct English sentence :p  )

Kind regards,
Martijn


No worries will check the forum tomorrow evening :D 
mactronix
May 14, 2008 9:24:52 PM

Quote:
Did you mean 3870 ? that dosent come as an AGP card.


Since the HD3xxx series, AMD remove the term Pro and XT from the HD2xxx series.

HD3450 == HD2400Pro
HD3470 == HD2400XT
HD3650 == HD2600Pro
HD3670 == HD2600XT
HD3850 == HD2900Pro
HD3870 == HD2900XT

the 4, 6, and 8 are for low-end, mainstream and enthusiast, the 5 for the pro series and the 7 for the XT series.

@Flitskikker : forget the HD3650, it just comes with the DDR2 for the AGP bus, buy an HD2600XT with 512MB DDR3... or a 3850 but mactronix is right, maybe to powerful for your system.
May 14, 2008 9:29:51 PM

There is no such thing as a 3670, though. That's what he's trying to say even if a DDR3 version 'should' be called that to follow the naming scheme.

ATI was going to release a 3690, which would be a castrated 3850/70, but I haven't seen more than rumors (that are quite old now). I'm guessing they're just trying to put this 2xxx/3xxx era behind them.

Edit: Whatever card you get should definitely DDR3 equipped. Also, I would recommend upgrading your system memory to 2GB (while 1GB is normally good for XP, 2GB is preferrable if you're gaming or doing any kind of encoding, graphics, etc work).
a c 130 U Graphics card
May 14, 2008 9:48:54 PM

@Sisley 111
"forget the HD3650, it just comes with the DDR2 for the AGP bus" This is not correct.
Flitskikker posted a link to a 512mb DDR3 AGP 3650 with his first post.
Mactronix
May 14, 2008 9:50:51 PM

I have an old P4 3ghz, with an AGP 7600GS 512meg. I bought my GS a little over a year ago, new, for $100.... I'm sure you can find them cheaper now. I live in the US tho, so prices are probally different... I no longer use my P4 system. I've since upgraded to AMD 5600+ with an 8800GT, and now I'm awaiting for my E8500 3.16ghz to arrive from FedEx...... But the 7600GS isn't the fastest card for your system, but it will play pretty much what ever ya want, providing your cpu can handle it... I played BF2, BF2142, Counter Strike Source.. alot on my P4.. So I know for sure it will play those games... 1024x768 resolution on those.....
May 15, 2008 2:08:53 PM

Quote:
@Sisley 111
"forget the HD3650, it just comes with the DDR2 for the AGP bus" This is not correct.
Flitskikker posted a link to a 512mb DDR3 AGP 3650 with his first post.
Mactronix


Sorry I've just looked here in Canada.

From the Asus website, the Asus 3650 Silent comes with DDR2 Asus Silent HD3650

Form the Sapphire web site (canno't be loaded... crap)... but on other website it seems that card comes with DDR3 so go with Sapphire !!!
May 15, 2008 2:15:01 PM

Here's my PS info:

FSP Group Inc
Model FSP280-60PNA-I (PF)
AC Input: 220-230V-, 3A, 50-60Hz
Max Output Power: 280W
(+3.3V&5V = 160W max)
Fuse rating: 6.3A, 250V-

I discovered I have also a litte darkgray, PCI looking slot, although I don't know what it is. It looks a bit like the 8x on this image:

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/pci-express-slots.g...

But the motherboard mactronix provided, says it's shared PCI / CNR.

Kind regards,
Martijn
May 15, 2008 3:10:42 PM

The Fortron FSP350-60PN (PF) is rated for 18A. I would imagine the 280W is considerably less (probably ~15A). Simply put, that is not enough for a 7600GS, 2600Pro, 2600XT, or 3650. I had a Delta 365W PSU (Sony factory) that put up with my 7600GS (before overclocking) for a month, and then started to die, it had 2 18A 12V rails (I'd imagine it's ~22A combined). I would not recommend you upgrading your video card without also upgrading your PSU.

Try to see if you have any of the following available where you are:

Antec Earthwatts 430W or 500W
Seasonic SS400 or SS500
Corsair 450VX

All of these would be plenty for your current system and will almost definitely be able to power your next system (without breaking the bank).
May 15, 2008 3:20:56 PM

When I have a new PSU, how to build it into my pc?
I'm not so good at replacing PSUs. :p 

Kind regards,
Martijn
May 15, 2008 3:22:48 PM

And which videocard is the maximum this thing can handle?
Geforce 6200 ?
May 15, 2008 3:33:39 PM

Yeah, it could handle a 6200, but that's still an extremely weak GPU.

When replacing a PSU you should disconnect all wires inside the case. Next you should unscrew the 4 mounting screws on the back of the computer that hold the PSU in the case. Then the unit is safe for removal. This will change if it is a non-standard PSU. Please refer to this link for detailed instructions.

http://www.fonerbooks.com/r_power.htm

In this picture you can see 4 screws that hold the PSU, if your PSU does not have the same mounting points, you will be unable to replace it with a standard PSU.

May 15, 2008 3:39:58 PM

All powerwires I think? So not IDE cables etc.?

Kind regards,
Martijn
May 15, 2008 3:46:50 PM

BTW: Will my currect PSU handle the X1650?
If yes or not, which is the maximum.
May 15, 2008 3:58:09 PM

No, it will not handle the X1650. The highest it could probably handle is the X1550, X1050, or HD 2400Pro, all of which are still very underpowered (edit: processing power).

No, you would not need to disconnect the data ribbon cables to your drives, etc. Just the 20-pin connector to the motherboard and all the other red, yellow, and black cords that connect the PSU to the components inside the case. And of course the power switch on the back of the PSU should be 'off' and the AC power cable should be unplugged as well.
May 15, 2008 4:17:13 PM

Which is the best:
X1550, X1050, HD 2400Pro ?

I'll go for that one, because I don't want to put too much money into this old system.

Kind regards,
Martijn
May 15, 2008 5:04:51 PM

Good choice not spending much money on the system. The best of the 3 will be the 2400Pro, but pricing may be prohibitively expensive for an entry-level card. Next up would be the X1550, and followed closely by the X1050 (which is actually a 9000-series GPU with DDR2 support).

Edit: GTA III San Andreas may not play well with a low-end card like these. Crysis will definitely NOT play on these cards either (even on low @ 800x600). I would recommend a new system.
May 15, 2008 5:23:15 PM

Which is the best?
X1550, X1050, or HD 2400Pro?

Then I'll go for that, because I don't want to put too much money in this system.

Kind regards,
Martijn
May 15, 2008 5:28:06 PM

Oops, something went wrong.
May 15, 2008 5:31:05 PM

@KyleSTL:

Is the 2400Pro low-end?
San Andreas even works with this old GeForce 4 and even on a Radeon 9250 PCI.
May 15, 2008 5:54:31 PM

Really, that's a little surprizing. I was thinking about the hardware in the PS2 and was taking into consideration that it's output a resolution of 480i. I assumed it would be much more taxing at modern computer resolutions.

Anyway, if you can play with acceptable resolutions and framerates with a 440, the Radeon HD 2400Pro should work fine, but it will not play modern games acceptably (Crysis, Bioshock, WIC, etc).
May 17, 2008 4:50:19 PM

I play the most games on a 640x480, 800x600 or 1024x768 resolution.
Can the HD2400 Pro handle the Sims 2 on 1024x768 it without stuttering?
May 18, 2008 5:29:34 PM

I play the most games on a 640x480, 800x600 or 1024x768 resolution.
Can the HD2400 Pro handle the Sims 2 on 1024x768 it without stuttering?
!